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Drop of Visage of the Khan-Ur was doubled ¿Is that a joke?


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@Clyan.1593 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.Yes. Some people enjoy that kind of achievement, so I see no reason why ANet can't throw in one every few years.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:^Also, I have the T-shirt, and did neither the collection, nor bought it from the vendor. (WvW easy PvE-centric Dailies are your friend.)

You seem not to understand. I don't want the T-Shirt. I want the achievement to be doable without rng luck.You can. All you need is patience and gold. Once you have 30k gold to put up three buy offers of 10k each on the trading post, I suspect there's really not all that much patience required any more.

@Clyan.1593 said:And what for? 5 AP and a T-Shirt skin...I'm sure there's a player somewhere that would love to say "I did this super rare drop achievement, and all I got is a t-shirt". Somebody at ANet must have a weird sense of humor ;) .

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@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.Yes. Some people enjoy that kind of achievement, so I see no reason why ANet can't throw in one every few years.

I dont remember an achievement with such a low rng chance. Confetti infu isnt an achievement.And the insect weapons were just heavily grindy, because the rng for the fossilized insects was reasonably high / balanced.So which achievements are you talking about?

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:You seem not to understand. I don't want the T-Shirt. I want the achievement to be doable without rng luck.You can. All you need is patience and gold. Once you have 30k gold to put up three buy offers of 10k each on the trading post, I suspect there's really not all that much patience required any more.

Well yes, obviously I can just spend real money on gems or be patient enough for the needed amount of 30k gold to be accumulated on my account. Beside this being a absolutely grotesque suggestion you seem to forget that in the meantime there are other things i would like to spend gold on aswell. So really if I am not one of those people who play the TP instead of the game I can just wait until i turn into dust for that gold to stack up.

@Rasimir.6239 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:And what for? 5 AP and a T-Shirt skin...I'm sure there's a player somewhere that would love to say "I did this super rare drop achievement, and all I got is a t-shirt". Somebody at ANet must have a weird sense of humor ;) .

No you aren't sure on that because you simply cannot know.Let me draw a by far more probable scenario in which the only person in a trillion dimensions who took it upon him or herself to beat the RNG and obtain all three skins manually after years of the daily and shallow task of double clicking an item finally achieved this goal and now suddenly screams in endless sorrow towards the sky asking the countless multiverses for forgiveness. You find that not very believable? Well then don't make even more unbelievable assumptions.

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@Clyan.1593 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.

Not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The Charr helm skins belong in that collection just as much as any of the others.

Did you ever play "odd one out"? I suppose not.

Do you have an actual argument against what I said beyond assuming I never played something unrelated to this game?

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:^Also, I have the T-shirt, and did neither the collection, nor bought it from the vendor. (WvW easy PvE-centric Dailies are your friend.)

You seem not to understand. I don't want the T-Shirt. I want the achievement to be doable without rng luck.

Why do you want this doable without luck? Why are you so hard-pressed to have this achievement completed?

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:GW1 tank achievements were extremely grindy. Every tried to do the lucky/unlucky ones?

Have you tried doing the 10K sPvP match wins achievement. Assuming you average 7 min each match, including the queue, and won every match, it’d take you almost 1,167 hours to complete that achievement.

Have you tried the 250K kills in WvW achievement? If you averaged 100 kills an hour, it’d take you 2,500 hours to complete.

If you were to farm gold for 1,200 hours and earning at least 25G/hr, you’d have enough to purchase the helm skins. If you spent as long as it would realistically take you to earn either of those two sPvP and WvW achievements, you’d be able to trade with players for the helm skins.

You are right, there are extremely grindy PvP and WvW achievements. However, they are not RNG-based at all. The goal is perfectly measurable and achievable in a very long run.

The helmets are not quite the same. Even if you farm enough money there is no guarantee that you will be able to buy them. There are very few helmets on the market: Five at the moment. I also checked grey markets for the helmets, there is one on sale now. So, between the TP and grey market, we have a grand total of 6 (six) helmets — enough for 2 (two) persons to complete the collection. Unfortunately, I know at least 4 people apart from me who would love to finish the Merchandise Collector and do not mind spending some gold.

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When this achievement/collection is as old as the Treasure Hunter achievement/collection, then they can be compared.Likely, when the Treasure Hunter achievement/collection was new, players found the RNG items nearly as costly (considering how easy/difficult it was to obtain Gold at the time).

It may be much less costly to buy the items several years from now for this achievement.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:GW1 tank achievements were extremely grindy. Every tried to do the lucky/unlucky ones?

Have you tried doing the 10K sPvP match wins achievement. Assuming you average 7 min each match, including the queue, and won every match, it’d take you almost 1,167 hours to complete that achievement.

Have you tried the 250K kills in WvW achievement? If you averaged 100 kills an hour, it’d take you 2,500 hours to complete.

If you were to farm gold for 1,200 hours and earning at least 25G/hr, you’d have enough to purchase the helm skins. If you spent as long as it would realistically take you to earn either of those two sPvP and WvW achievements, you’d be able to trade with players for the helm skins.

You are right, there are extremely grindy PvP and WvW achievements. However, they are not RNG-based at all. The goal is perfectly measurable and achievable in a very long run.

Of course they’re not RNG based. The point was that you can spend the same amount of time it would take to complete those and buy the Charr helm skins. It’s also the same as the 100K map currency which I mentioned although it’s not logistically possible. There’s also what the person above suggested with it being available from a vendor for 10K gold.

All of which are perfectly measurable and achievable in a very long run.

The helmets are not quite the same. Even if you farm enough money there is no guarantee that you will be able to buy them. There are very few helmets on the market: Five at the moment. I also checked grey markets for the helmets, there is one on sale now. So, between the TP and grey market, we have a grand total of 6 (six) helmets — enough for 2 (two) persons to complete the collection. Unfortunately, I know at least 4 people apart from me who would love to finish the Merchandise Collector and do not mind spending some gold.

And why haven’t those four people spent the gold to buy them? It’s also not like those will be the only ones ever available either. Just because the supply is limited, doesn’t mean that someone can’t farm the gold and buy them.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

Do you got the treasure chest in your home instance? That's got like 10 impossible drops that no one player could get without buying 8 of them all 300-400g and was more expensive back in the day so there is precedent.

According to the gw2efficiency, the current total cost of the Treasure Hunter achievement is 1 755g 45s 59c. Not only it is way cheaper, but it also grants a chest that can be opened daily. The Merchandise Collector does not give any reasonable reward (T-shirt can be bought or received via WvW reward track) and at this moment can not be completed by more than 2 people.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:

Do you got the treasure chest in your home instance? That's got like 10 impossible drops that no one player could get without buying 8 of them all 300-400g and was more expensive back in the day so there is precedent.

According to the gw2efficiency, the current total cost of the Treasure Hunter achievement is 1 755g 45s 59c. Not only it is way cheaper, but it also grants a chest that can be opened daily. The Merchandise Collector does not give any reasonable reward (T-shirt can be bought or received via WvW reward track) and at this moment can not be completed by more than 2 people.

And only up to 22 people can complete the treasure hunter achievement through the TP. Is the difference between 22 and 2 people really that significant when compared to the active player base?

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.

Not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward.

See this is the main issue with people like you on EVERY gaming forum. People who do not read what the OP initially wrote and still wantto participate in the discussion littering the thread with confusing statements.But not only that, also the fact that you clearly are unable to differentiate two completely different things:There are achivements that take long and those that don't. This one is neither of them. So don't compare it to such.This achievement is luck based, so time really isn't a calculable factor in it. You could try for 3 days and achieve it. Or you could try for a 1000 years and still miss it.

So yeah, I agree, not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward. But let's drag out this stance a little further and get rid of more things that "aren't needed". I have no problem with that. As long as I can track and measure my work towards a goal. With this achivement I can't do that. It just sits there, telling me to be lucky.

On other threads people ask you to git gud. Here you ask me to git lucky.

No. I read what you wrote. I disagree with it and gave my reason why.

No you didn't. I explained how envoy herald, hom 50/50, fractal goddess and GWAMM are long term achievements that could be achieved by literally anyone who was willing to work hard and consistenly towards it, and yet you try to explain to me that "Not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward". Clearly you have NOT read what I wrote. Or you have a really short memory. Or you do not understand at all what I want. I'm not asking for a quick achievement. I ask for one that isn't based on RNG.

So now go on and tell me which achievements are based on the same low rng as this one, rendering a single item as expensive as 8000g. I'll wait.

I did read your post. You made an argument that there shouldn’t be any achievements tied to RNG but that solely your opinion. It’s not a hard set rule that there shouldn’t be any.

Anet has done this several times before with the fractal salvage one and a few of the rare exotic collections. We have other expensive collections such as those for Legendaries which you’ve mentioned. This achievement is on the higher end of those but there’s no rule against this.

All of the rewards can be obtained elsewhere. The only exception being the few AP. So why must this achievement be completed by you? If they added a way to purchase the helm skins for 100K map currency each, would you still complain?

Now you are just evasive.

100k are 400 stacks of map currency btw, a really rubbish attempt to form an argument, but for the sake of it:At least 400 stacks is realistic - it's measurable. RNG simply is luck. Technically even if chances were 1:2 you could lose every time.But I wouldn't complain about it then, because obviously it wouldn't be an issue.

The point of that was to give you a non RNG way to obtain it without devaluing it as a drop.

In my post, I included an edit with some grindy achievements. You could easily grind gold and purchase the skins before completing either of those achievements. It may even be possible to do the same before some of the rank titles in GW1.

Again, I asked you to name an achievement that has a comparable RNG to it rendering a single Item 8000g.Those you mentioned are either not on TP or far below 8000g.

There isn’t one but that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. You’ve failed to provide any reason why it shouldn’t be in the game other than it just shouldn’t.

And if i want it or not doesn't matter, but what becomes more obvious is that you don't give an effing kitten about it yourself and so it becomes questionable if your view on this has any weight. I too can kitten on something i don't care about. And so, no I don't "need" the achievement. But that doesn't make it legitimate. I for my part can acknowledge that.

I do care about completing the achievement as I open the vault daily. It just doesn’t matter enough to me to farm map completions anymore.

It might just be an opinion - of course. But so it's a matter of which opinion has more reason to it. And i think it is obvious that tying achievements to rng is a D-move.

That last part is clearly your opinion.

I am aware of the possibility to farm gold and therefor buy the skins from tp, not only that, i could go and convert gems too if i wanted to. You again have totally missed the issue. Yes i see the item is on tp and i can buy it if i wanted to. But the price is absurd, so i wont do that. The price is artificially set up by its low drop rate. But again: that is not the issue here. I hope you finally understood that now. The problem is that such a low rng item is tied into an achievement, called merchandise collector, even tho the item itself isnt a merchandise item, because neither can you buy it from a merc nor is it tied to the metal legion event.

I gave several reasons for why this should not exist in that form already, you just disagree and seem to believe that i have therefor failed. But it isnt my job to change your opinion and it isnt my problem that you went so far into this that now you cannot step down and acknowledge how wrong you are.

Instead you need to hide behind the all known "thats just your opinion" stance, a real classic.I suppose where there are no facts to conclude something one has to form an opinion. And that is what i did. That doesnt mean i am wrong and it certainly doesnt mean you are right.

Achieving something should not be bound to luck. Because thats not an achievement. Its just luck. One can put no effort in it and succeed, someone else can sacrifice everything and gain nothing. And that isnt an opinion.

And so you direct me to spent gold on it if i dont want to put up with the rng, even going so far to compare gw1 titles to the amount of time needed to obtain the gold needed for these items, which further proves how desperate you are in trying to prove something that hasnt ever been an issue at all.

This item should be removed from the achievement. Like it or not.

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@Leablo.2651 said:So would you agree to a solution of putting the items on a vendor for 10k gold? This removes all RNG associated with sourcing the item.

Yes i would be. The item being in tp isnt the issue here. It being low rng and being part of an achievement called merchandise collector when the helmets arent merchandise at all is.

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It seems to work perfectly. All kinds of people are coming out of the woodworks to complain about an achievement of all things, something most players ignore in their pursuit of complaining that there is no content. Just don't bank on getting a rare item, do the rest and maybe you'll be surprised.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:GW1 tank achievements were extremely grindy. Every tried to do the lucky/unlucky ones?

Have you tried doing the 10K sPvP match wins achievement. Assuming you average 7 min each match, including the queue, and won every match, it’d take you almost 1,167 hours to complete that achievement.

Have you tried the 250K kills in WvW achievement? If you averaged 100 kills an hour, it’d take you 2,500 hours to complete.

If you were to farm gold for 1,200 hours and earning at least 25G/hr, you’d have enough to purchase the helm skins. If you spent as long as it would realistically take you to earn either of those two sPvP and WvW achievements, you’d be able to trade with players for the helm skins.

You are right, there are extremely grindy PvP and WvW achievements. However, they are not RNG-based at all. The goal is perfectly measurable and achievable in a very long run.

Of course they’re not RNG based. The point was that you can spend the same amount of time it would take to complete those and buy the Charr helm skins. It’s also the same as the 100K map currency which I mentioned although it’s not logistically possible. There’s also what the person above suggested with it being available from a vendor for 10K gold.

All of which are perfectly measurable and achievable in a very long run.

Personally, I would not have any problem with helmets being sold by an NPC for an outrageous sum. It will take time, but the results are 100% guaranteed.

The helmets are not quite the same. Even if you farm enough money there is no guarantee that you will be able to buy them. There are very few helmets on the market: Five at the moment. I also checked grey markets for the helmets, there is one on sale now. So, between the TP and grey market, we have a grand total of 6 (six) helmets — enough for 2 (two) persons to complete the collection. Unfortunately, I know at least 4 people apart from me who would love to finish the Merchandise Collector and do not mind spending some gold.

And why haven’t those four people spent the gold to buy them? It’s also not like those will be the only ones ever available either. Just because the supply is limited, doesn’t mean that someone can’t farm the gold and buy them.

You are missing the point. Just because everybody can farm gold does not mean that everybody can buy those helmets. An achievement should be achievable by anyone who wants to put time and effort regardless of the number of other people who want to get the same achievement. It also should be achievable within a reasonable time.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.

Not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The Charr helm skins belong in that collection just as much as any of the others.

Did you ever play "odd one out"? I suppose not.

Do you have an actual argument against what I said beyond assuming I never played something unrelated to this game?

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:^Also, I have the T-shirt, and did neither the collection, nor bought it from the vendor. (WvW easy PvE-centric Dailies are your friend.)

You seem not to understand. I don't want the T-Shirt. I want the achievement to be doable without rng luck.

Why do you want this doable without luck? Why are you so hard-pressed to have this achievement completed?

In fairness though achievements that might never be achieved due to ridiculous RNG odds are hardly something to defend.Not everyone sees achievements as a reason to spend 000's of gold or reach into their RL wallets to avoid endless grind of the same events in the hope one day they finally get lucky.... treasure hunter ring any bells???

Buying stuff from the TP does not sound like much of achievment to me..

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@Clyan.1593 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:So, what could be done: Simply remove the Khan-Ur skins out of that achievement. Thanks.

You could reduce all your post to only this last phrase. I agree to remove those skins from the collection, but they should stay with a very low RNG drop chance cus i believe "rarities" like this is what motivates some players (like me) to revisit old maps and do unrewarding metas.

Yes i could, but then someone else pops up and wants me to clarify / explain why and so on. So i posted this wall of text to explain why this achivement is baloney.

Which is a fair request, so well done on explaining it. That way more people can understand where you're coming from. Personally I've given up on achievements and not just here because of all kinds of things that just don't make sense. I don't necessarily get the feeling that this sort of thing (and indeed many other things) are really looked at from the player point of view.

They probably think that annoying=more play time, but that doesn't equate to enjoyment and doesn't work when people give up on completing achievements or even the game as a whole. Challenge is supposed to inspire you to achieve something not depress you and make you wonder why you even bother or get angry because it's just a terribly poorly designed challenge.

I dunno, some stuff is just weird and makes zero sense. Maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The achievement doesn’t need to be adjusted as it’s not required to complete the meta achievement.

So everything outside of meta achievements can be totally wack because that's how you look at it.

Not every achievement needs to be quickly obtainable as if it’s some sort of participation reward.

90% of the active players will probably never get this "Achievement" due to the low drop rate of the RACIAL helm, add to that, this map will probably be forgotten about like all the rest of Anets maps in the upcoming years making the drops even harder to come by. Im all for rare drops, but i still am a firm believe in rare drops being reasonably priced so those without any luck like myself can someday afford them, and if they arent i lose all interest in the item. Theres 0% chance im going to get this item, period, due to how low the drop rate is and Anets terrible RNG in this game, theres no way to actively work towards its obtainment(unlike actual legendary gear), you get one chance a day per account, so 365 trys a year if you miss no days of playtime, and you still might -never- see it because RNG says no.

If i could work towards a collection or something that awarded this item it would be great, and i wouldnt complain, -and- then it would make sense to have the item attached to "Merchandise collector" achievement, but really, i think it should have been available for 5k Chilis or something due to it being a racial skin with no effects given to it.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

Do you got the treasure chest in your home instance? That's got like 10 impossible drops that no one player could get without buying 8 of them all 300-400g and was more expensive back in the day so there is precedent.

According to the gw2efficiency, the current total cost of the Treasure Hunter achievement is 1 755g 45s 59c. Not only it is way cheaper, but it also grants a chest that can be opened daily. The Merchandise Collector does not give any reasonable reward (T-shirt can be bought or received via WvW reward track) and at this moment can not be completed by more than 2 people.

No. I was off from memory but you are low unless of course you assumed you get those items via buy order and noone gonna 1c overbid you for months as you wait 4 it to drop and some1 sells cheap. its 4 drops 269-400. Yeah it's cheaper just like in 6 years these items will be. The argument was what achieve depends on ranged drops which go get those drops without buying them. And you are right you get something but just like this it is not an achievement you need to do

Treasure Hunter caused its own outrage and very few people in all these years have completed it. It is another poorly designed achievement. However, Merchandise Collector so far is THE ultimate poorly designed achievement:

  • it is virtually impossible for an average player to complete (GW2 is a game designed for casual players);
  • the most expensive and hard to get items are racial skins for one of the least played races in the game (and they are not even merchandise, they are extremely rare drops from time-gated boxes);
  • it does not give any sensible rewards (T-shirt is a joke if not an insult);
  • it is part of the chapter meta-achievement (thank God, it is not required for the meta-achievement).

It does not matter whether I have or do not have to do. It is still a textbook example of how to frustrate your paying customers and cause community outrage.

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Funnily enough i do have treasure hunter and some other super rare achievements aswell. I am not one of those player who shy back from doing grindy stuff, including gw1 titles, yet since i already spend 40 hours on average weekly on this game i try to take shortcuts by converting gems when it helps me being a bit more efficient.

I just say this one is out of proportion since it includes 3 skins that all look the same, racial skins on top of that, very low rng and do not fit into the category the achievement is about at all. I dont see why this has to be. The items simply could be removed from the achievement, nothing about the rng, the artificially blown up value or anything else has to change. I dont see why this would upset ANYONE except anet, who seem interested in keeping the price high for achievement hunters. Which is absolutely unnecessary.

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@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:I've not 'come around'. I am apathetic towards the issue.I just don't see why anyone needs to 'defend' anything about the Meta, since this particular achievement isn't necessary to complete the Meta.

No the achievement isn't necessary to complete the meta.. the meta's are key to achieving the achievement though (pun intended) unless you want to buy your achievement, which to me is a really great way to advocate playing the game for the achievement aspect it provides I guess.Simply put it is just a desperate unimaginative, non creative way attempt at keeping players logging into the game and keeping the map alive as long as possible, but I suspect it will only serve to have the opposite affect and turn players away once again.There is simply no defence for this achievement collection other than it was a way to troll the players after the live event merchandising show backlash.

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