Do you all consider Spies an issue?

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Yeah the noob accidentally clicked all 3 tactivators right before 40 showed up to air

aren't there websites that show you when a tactic is on cooldown?

[Optimator.3589]

I doubt there are that many people left who care enough to actually do spy stuff. The people pulling tactivators nowadays are usually just doing it for lulz.

[MedievalThings.5417]

It may not be a huge issue elsewhere, but TC is trolled regularly. Add friend them, sure enough 655 AP, almost every time. It's like someone is using a bot leveling program and than using those F2P alts to troll. See a golem army leave smc, all tactics go off. It's not a single, bored person, people put tons of effort in to trolling tactics.Why, I just don't know, but I guess it makes them feel better to cheat to win.

[Handin.4032]

It's an issue, but anet has also shown they will do absolutely nothing to stop it. We recently had an alt (650 AP, no guild) that was brand new on the linked server come and drain our EB keep supply every time they had an active group. It wasn't a new guy, just an alt throwing down golem after golem to drain supply from keeps.

[Oogabooga.3812]

Spies are unfortunately valid play. At the very least, they report on enemy presence or lack thereof. The tactic trolls are more harmful to retain an objective. The worst offenders are the ones who waste supply especially in home keeps. What makes them unfortunate is that there is no counterplay. You cannot report them, stop them, or kill them.

Are they a problem? Not nearly as much now, since WvW has become a mostly PvD fest during most hours.

[Fellwitch.4536]

I am a noob that came back after 2 years away or so (HoT) and I have never seen these tactivator things and have been pulling them whenever I see them (but it gives some error message). I will read about what they actually do now :)

[phokus.8934]

I always pull SMC tacs just to make sure they’re working. And then reading in /t “spy!”. Get real, no one does spying or anything other than stream/discord snipe blobs.

[googel.3278]

i have a fetish for tactics, i pull tactics to make love on that stick. i like seeing blue farts appearing from the sky and massive stink bombs too, not to mention that furry banner.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Do you all consider Spies an issue?

The question you should be asking is: Does ANET think Spies is an issue.

Seemingly it does not, and therefore our thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. It does make you wonder though, why people go to such lengths for a depopulated imbalanced game where winning doesn't matter. I mean if you're going to be duplicitous, at least get something worthwhile in exchange for your integrity.

Like I taught my kids when the supermarket cashier made an error and I returned the extra money: "If I'm going to be a thief, it won't be for $5.00 vs. robbing a bank".

[Konrad Curze.5130]

@Ghetx.1752 said:That 'spy' controversy makes me puke.Every single time someone makes even tiniest mistake in world vs world he is a 'spy' calm the f down.

Poor guy, flamed by the other 9 people on the entire server that still bother with WvW

[Knighthonor.4061]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Do you all consider Spies an issue?

The question you should be asking is: Does ANET think Spies is an issue.

Seemingly it does not, and therefore our thoughts on the matter are irrelevant. It does make you wonder though, why people go to such lengths for a depopulated imbalanced game where winning doesn't matter. I mean if you're going to be duplicitous, at least get something worthwhile in exchange for your integrity.

Like I taught my kids when the supermarket cashier made an error and I returned the extra money: "If I'm going to be a thief, it won't be for $5.00 vs. robbing a bank".

thats like asking why do people troll in Rust.

[Stephen.6312]

It's a legitimate part of warfare. I don't have a problem with spying, but I think that the WvW mode needs to cater to more forms of what is best described as "legitimate" spying. For example, troop movements should be something that someone can pay gold to view, provided the viewing time is gated. Or the enemies map chat feed should be something that you can view. Maybe 10 lines at a time, or one line of every three lines. This could be a mastery. I would prefer it to be profession specific though. Members should be able to intercept snippets of enemy chat. Thieves should be able to view party composition of commanders or their movements etc.

These kind of strategies would open up new strategic possibilities to the WvW playerbase. That might help to reduce the amount of annoyance created by spying.

[Mokk.2397]

@"Stephen.6312" said:It's a legitimate part of warfare. I don't have a problem with spying, but I think that the WvW mode needs to cater to more forms of what is best described as "legitimate" spying. For example, troop movements should be something that someone can pay gold to view, provided the viewing time is gated. Or the enemies map chat feed should be something that you can view. Maybe 10 lines at a time, or one line of every three lines. This could be a mastery. I would prefer it to be profession specific though. Members should be able to intercept snippets of enemy chat. Thieves should be able to view party composition of commanders or their movements etc.

These kind of strategies would open up new strategic possibilities to the WvW playerbase. That might help to reduce the amount of annoyance created by spying.

True.Spy's are a legitimate part of warfare. But, when a spy is caught they are jailed or executed.Why would anyone pay gold for information that can be acquired for free using a player.Tactivators need a log file of the last person that have activated it .Then the guild that that placed said tactivator should have the option to pay gold that makes a "spy" turn red for a determined amount of time. Say for 30 minutes it's open season on that person from all servers and NPC's .Or a single person cannot activate more than 2 tacivators per hour.

[LetoII.3782]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

I pulled air ship last night in the sm for lolz, (way past prime time where nothing much was happening) ofc a few people in map chat and foam coming from their mouths but even after I admitted of pulling the air ship they was still moaning and blaming it at spies logging on from another server

Airboats are too glorious to be left in harbor. Paper smc is more fun anyways.

[Stephen.6312]

@Mokk.2397 said:

@"Stephen.6312" said:It's a legitimate part of warfare. I don't have a problem with spying, but I think that the WvW mode needs to cater to more forms of what is best described as "legitimate" spying. For example, troop movements should be something that someone can pay gold to view, provided the viewing time is gated. Or the enemies map chat feed should be something that you can view. Maybe 10 lines at a time, or one line of every three lines. This could be a mastery. I would prefer it to be profession specific though. Members should be able to intercept snippets of enemy chat. Thieves should be able to view party composition of commanders or their movements etc.

These kind of strategies would open up new strategic possibilities to the WvW playerbase. That might help to reduce the amount of annoyance created by spying.

True.Spy's are a legitimate part of warfare. But, when a spy is caught they are jailed or executed.Why would anyone pay gold for information that can be acquired for free using a player.Tactivators need a log file of the last person that have activated it .Then the guild that that placed said tactivator should have the option to pay gold that makes a "spy" turn red for a determined amount of time. Say for 30 minutes it's open season on that person from all servers and NPC's .Or a single person cannot activate more than 2 tacivators per hour.

Maybe instead of killing or executing a spy when they are revealed they get auto-ejected from WvW with a 5 min stand down. The idea would be to prevent someone from effectively permanently banning a spy by making the skill a once every 24hr thing or something like that.

[Rubius.9280]

In lower tiers, didn't used to feel that spying was an issue at all. Thought it was just a myth until we noticed someone pulled all the tactivators in a keep and within 60 seconds a huge enemy force showed up... and then the same happened less than an hour later on another map with the same group.

Have long felt that a log would be really useful -- new players might accidentally pull tactivators, and we should be helpful in teaching them how they work. But if there are records that could prove the behavior was malicious in trying to hurt a team, and is being constantly repeated, it would be nice if the support team could review and perhaps action any really crazy offenders there.

[Stephen.6312]

@Rubius.9280 said:In lower tiers, didn't used to feel that spying was an issue at all. Thought it was just a myth until we noticed someone pulled all the tactivators in a keep and within 60 seconds a huge enemy force showed up... and then the same happened less than an hour later on another map with the same group.

Have long felt that a log would be really useful -- new players might accidentally pull tactivators, and we should be helpful in teaching them how they work. But if there are records that could prove the behavior was malicious in trying to hurt a team, and is being constantly repeated, it would be nice if the support team could review and perhaps action any really crazy offenders there.

A log is a great idea. Only Commanders or Commanders of specific rank (Gold, Mithril, Diamond etc) would be able to take actions. These actions would be buttons to select. Options could be:1) A temporary ban for 60 mins (with a cooldown, the cooldown can be bypassed, if need be, with either gold, gems, or some kind of WvW specific currency)2) Disable a players ability to use activators for a period (short cooldown, maybe 15 mins)

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Stephen.6312" said:1) A temporary ban for 60 mins (with a cooldown, the cooldown can be bypassed, if need be, with either gold, gems, or some kind of WvW specific currency)Yeah that wouldnt be abused at all by people banning for the lulz. And spies in particular would not do it.

Now if you excuse me I need to go and create the guild [sPIC] "Its Spice Totally Not Spies" and stock up on tactics.

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Stephen.6312" said:1) A temporary ban for 60 mins (with a cooldown, the cooldown can be bypassed, if need be, with either gold, gems, or some kind of WvW specific currency)Yeah that wouldnt be abused

at all

by people banning for the lulz. And spies in particular would not do it.

Now if you excuse me I need to go and create the guild [kitten] "Its Spice Totally Not Spies" and stock up on tactics.

That's a really spiciffic statement

[Stephen.6312]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Stephen.6312" said:1) A temporary ban for 60 mins (with a cooldown, the cooldown can be bypassed, if need be, with either gold, gems, or some kind of WvW specific currency)Yeah that wouldnt be abused

at all

by people banning for the lulz. And spies in particular would not do it.

Now if you excuse me I need to go and create the guild [kitten] "Its Spice Totally Not Spies" and stock up on tactics.

Lmfao. Oh you of little faith.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Stephen.6312" said:1) A temporary ban for 60 mins (with a cooldown, the cooldown can be bypassed, if need be, with either gold, gems, or some kind of WvW specific currency)Yeah that wouldnt be abused

at all

by people banning for the lulz. And spies in particular would not do it.

Now if you excuse me I need to go and create the guild [kitten] "Its Spice Totally Not Spies" and stock up on tactics.

That's a really spiciffic statement

Incoming bad Dad jokes.

It is thyme for a new beginning. WvW needs to be spiced up a bit, its getting a bit bland with all the salt thrown around.

[Rubius.9280]

The idea for high-rank WvW players to have some extra powers is pretty interesting, though I do worry that if you give players the option to abuse something, they will find ways to abuse it. (It's exactly what we're seeing with people/alt accounts pulling tactivators on purpose in this thread!)

Feels like the best solution would be to have the staff deciding what is and is not abuse / malicious behavior, which players can report for review, though this would require more work for everyone involved. Given the upcoming 2-year anniversary of the alliances announcement, it's probably not realistic to expect. Still... we can dream, right?

[L A T I O N.8923]

@Rubius.9280 said:The idea for high-rank WvW players to have some extra powers is pretty interesting, though I do worry that if you give players the option to abuse something, they will find ways to abuse it. (It's exactly what we're seeing with people/alt accounts pulling tactivators on purpose in this thread!)

Feels like the best solution would be to have the staff deciding what is and is not abuse / malicious behavior, which players can report for review, though this would require more work for everyone involved. Given the upcoming 2-year anniversary of the alliances announcement, it's probably not realistic to expect. Still... we can dream, right?

Best way to avoid the abuse, is reward those trolls for testing and reporting issues

[Grim West.3194]

It would be great if spying actually made any difference, but atm what is the point? The only tactic that matters is coverage and spies can't change that.

[Rubius.9280]

@Grim West.3194 said:It would be great if spying actually made any difference, but atm what is the point? The only tactic that matters is coverage and spies can't change that.

A key strategy for many groups (especially smaller havoc groups) is being able to attack a target and progress quickly to the lord without the enemy team being aware, or at least, with them finding out as late as possible.

While this scenario is probably rare, in the case of tag sniping, a spy could keep an eye out for tags on any given map and report their location to the team they're spying for. Large groups or any public tags can have their position fed to a larger enemy group before they even arrive at a location, or moments after they do, which makes for a much harder fight. (To Anet's credit, I think the hidden tag option is a really great way for a lot of guild squads to counter this.)

Separately, there's the discussion of players on alternate accounts pulling tactivators ahead of a siege to harm the defense of a team, which definitely does happen sometimes but can also get mixed in with people who may be new or people who may just be trolling.