Can we please talk about the "Marked" debuff?

[Kondor.2904]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:We can talk about anything related to stealth, when you get revealed upon missing any attack from stealth. Until then stop qq'ing.

Fair enough. How about we also make it so mesmer clones vanish whenever mesmer's miss an attack. Fair is fair right?

I am not talking about putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief. I am talking about balancing a mechanic that's available almost to everyone. Stealth is supposed to be a risk/reward type of thing, not reward/reward. Spamming a skill until you a hit a target (who has to turn on his 3rd eye to anticipate an attack that has no tell) without a trade-off is conceptually unhealthy.

[Kondor.2904]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:We can talk about anything related to stealth, when you get revealed upon missing any attack from stealth. Until then stop qq'ing.

And any missed attack puts you in combat too then?

Don't think that's necessary.

[anduriell.6280]

Yes, reveals that use single target instead AoE reveal should apply a much longer marked debuff instead reveal, so the payoff to be able to reveal a target that constantly goes into invisible makes sense.

Skills like Spear of Justice, sicem, analyze and “on my mark” should apply long lasting marked debuff instead revealed.

[Doug.4930]

@Kondor.2904 said:I am not talking about putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief. I am talking about balancing a mechanic that's available almost to everyone.@Kondor.2904 said:Spamming a skill until you a hit a target (who has to turn on his 3rd eye to anticipate an attack that has no tell) without a trade-off is conceptually unhealthy.

These 2 statements contradict each other. You start by saying that you're asking to balance a mechanic used by everyone. But when you go into detail about balancing this mechanic you instead talk about something that Is unique to thief, stealth attacks. So you are putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief, stealth attacks.

@Kondor.2904 said:Stealth is supposed to be a risk/reward type of thing, not reward/reward.

Why? Says who? Are using mesmer clones a risk/reward thing too? How about stances? Should warriors stances end whenever they miss an attack too? Maybe holosmiths should be forced out of holoforge when they miss an attack? Or maybe stealth is a reward/reward type of thing. Like invulns, and stances, or distortion and evade skills etc.

Now if you were to say that some classes have access to stealth that shouldn't (holo) then I would completely agree. But as it stands, thief/DD/DE etc is absolutely in no place in this meta that justifies the existence of a mechanic that completely shuts down both its ability to deal damage, and to mitigate it on certain builds. Let alone hit it with another huge nerf (reveal on missed attack). There are other ways in which some tweaking/nerfing i think would be a good idea (can check my post history). But marked and reveal on missed stealth attack would be/is ridiculously unfair in todays meta.

[Kondor.2904]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:I am not talking about putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief. I am talking about balancing a mechanic that's available almost to everyone.@Kondor.2904 said:Spamming a skill until you a hit a target (who has to turn on his 3rd eye to anticipate an attack that has no tell) without a trade-off is conceptually unhealthy.

These 2 statements contradict each other. You start by saying that you're asking to balance a mechanic used by everyone. But when you go into detail about balancing this mechanic you instead talk about something that Is unique to thief, stealth attacks. So you are putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief, stealth attacks.

@Kondor.2904 said:Stealth is supposed to be a risk/reward type of thing, not reward/reward.

Why? Says who? Are using mesmer clones a risk/reward thing too? How about stances? Should warriors stances end whenever they miss an attack too? Maybe holosmiths should be forced out of holoforge when they miss an attack? Or maybe stealth is a reward/reward type of thing. Like invulns, and stances, or distortion and evade skills etc.

Now if you were to say that some classes have access to stealth that shouldn't (holo) then I would completely agree. But as it stands, thief/DD/DE etc is absolutely in no place in this meta that justifies the existence of a mechanic that completely shuts down both its ability to deal damage, and to mitigate it on certain builds. Let alone hit it with another huge nerf (reveal on missed attack). There are other ways in which some tweaking i think would be a good idea (can check my post history). But marked and reveal on missed stealth attack would be ridiculously unfair in todays meta.

Learn to read, please. I purposefully stated "any attack from stealth" in my very first post. I am not going to discuss proffesion mechanics and resources if you can't see the difference between those and stealth. Mesmer's clone mechanic is similar to initiative, not stealth. If you want to hate on mesmer, use detarget mechanic at the very least. This change will not affect thief's general performance, just like DJ's reveal and unblockable removal, and dodge stealth trait nerf do not affect deadeye. What it will do instead, it will increase the skill cap when operating with stealth tools for ANY class, so you rely on timings and setups instead of stealthspam. I will point out once again, as much as i hate backstab, i also hate seeing "evaded" 3 times and still getting hit from stealth by ANY class, not just thief.

[Doug.4930]

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:I am not talking about putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief. I am talking about balancing a mechanic that's available almost to everyone.@Kondor.2904 said:Spamming a skill until you a hit a target (who has to turn on his 3rd eye to anticipate an attack that has no tell) without a trade-off is conceptually unhealthy.

These 2 statements contradict each other. You start by saying that you're asking to balance a mechanic used by everyone. But when you go into detail about balancing this mechanic you instead talk about something that Is unique to thief, stealth attacks. So you are putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief, stealth attacks.

@Kondor.2904 said:Stealth is supposed to be a risk/reward type of thing, not reward/reward.

Why? Says who? Are using mesmer clones a risk/reward thing too? How about stances? Should warriors stances end whenever they miss an attack too? Maybe holosmiths should be forced out of holoforge when they miss an attack? Or maybe stealth is a reward/reward type of thing. Like invulns, and stances, or distortion and evade skills etc.

Now if you were to say that some classes have access to stealth that shouldn't (holo) then I would completely agree. But as it stands, thief/DD/DE etc is absolutely in no place in this meta that justifies the existence of a mechanic that completely shuts down both its ability to deal damage, and to mitigate it on certain builds. Let alone hit it with another huge nerf (reveal on missed attack). There are other ways in which some tweaking i think would be a good idea (can check my post history). But marked and reveal on missed stealth attack would be ridiculously unfair in todays meta.

Learn to read, please. I purposefully stated "any attack from stealth" in my very first post. I am not going to discuss proffesion mechanics and resources if you can't see the difference between those and stealth.

You're attempt to dress up "any attack from stealth" as an equal nerf to all classes is going to fool nobody. Making that change is going to primarily hit thief, whilst having very little affect on other classes who don't rely on stealth to deal their high damage skills.

Mesmer's clone mechanic is similar to initiative, not stealth. If you want to hate on mesmer, use detarget mechanic at the very least.

No. Mesmers clones are a tool mesmers use to both deal and mitigate damage. Like stealth on thief. It is in no way comparable to initiative. Also not hating on mesmer, just drawing a comparison.

This change will not affect thief's general performance, just like DJ's reveal and unblockable removal, and dodge stealth trait nerf do not affect deadeye.

Are you kidding me? Making DJ blockable and the nerf to silent scope didn't affect dead eye? Say that again without laughing this time. They were nerfs that were needed. And they affected DE, like a lot.This is just as funny as suggesting that adding reveal on missing a stealth attack won't affect thiefs general performance. Are you bating me with this?

What it will do instead, it will increase the skill cap when operating with stealth tools for ANY class, so you rely on timings and setups instead of stealthspam. I will point out once again, as much as i hate backstab, i also hate seeing "evaded" 3 times and still getting hit from stealth by ANY class, not just thief.

So yea I read what you typed, I just saw through the story and addressed what you're really trying to push here. Reveal when thief misses its back stab.

[Kondor.2904]

@Doug.4930 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:I am not talking about putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief. I am talking about balancing a mechanic that's available almost to everyone.@Kondor.2904 said:Spamming a skill until you a hit a target (who has to turn on his 3rd eye to anticipate an attack that has no tell) without a trade-off is conceptually unhealthy.

These 2 statements contradict each other. You start by saying that you're asking to balance a mechanic used by everyone. But when you go into detail about balancing this mechanic you instead talk about something that Is unique to thief, stealth attacks. So you are putting a penalty on a resource unique to thief, stealth attacks.

@Kondor.2904 said:Stealth is supposed to be a risk/reward type of thing, not reward/reward.

Why? Says who? Are using mesmer clones a risk/reward thing too? How about stances? Should warriors stances end whenever they miss an attack too? Maybe holosmiths should be forced out of holoforge when they miss an attack? Or maybe stealth is a reward/reward type of thing. Like invulns, and stances, or distortion and evade skills etc.

Now if you were to say that some classes have access to stealth that shouldn't (holo) then I would completely agree. But as it stands, thief/DD/DE etc is absolutely in no place in this meta that justifies the existence of a mechanic that completely shuts down both its ability to deal damage, and to mitigate it on certain builds. Let alone hit it with another huge nerf (reveal on missed attack). There are other ways in which some tweaking i think would be a good idea (can check my post history). But marked and reveal on missed stealth attack would be ridiculously unfair in todays meta.

Learn to read, please. I purposefully stated "any attack from stealth" in my very first post. I am not going to discuss proffesion mechanics and resources if you can't see the difference between those and stealth.

You're attempt to dress up "any attack from stealth" as an equal nerf to all classes is going to fool nobody. Making that change is going to primarily hit thief, whilst having very little affect on other classes who don't rely on stealth to deal their high damage skills.

Mesmer's clone mechanic is similar to initiative, not stealth. If you want to hate on mesmer, use detarget mechanic at the very least.

No. Mesmers clones are a tool mesmers use to both deal and mitigate damage. Like stealth on thief. It is in no way comparable to initiative. Also not hating on mesmer, just drawing a comparison.

This change will not affect thief's general performance, just like DJ's reveal and unblockable removal, and dodge stealth trait nerf do not affect deadeye.

Are you kidding me? Making DJ blockable and the nerf to silent scope didn't affect dead eye? Say that again without laughing this time. They were nerfs that were needed. And they affected DE, like a lot.This is just as funny as suggesting that adding reveal on missing a stealth attack won't affect thiefs general performance. Are you bating me with this?

What it will do instead, it will increase the skill cap when operating with stealth tools for ANY class, so you rely on timings and setups instead of stealthspam. I will point out once again, as much as i hate backstab, i also hate seeing "evaded" 3 times and still getting hit from stealth by ANY class, not just thief.

So yea I read what you typed, I just saw through the story and addressed what you're really trying to push here. Reveal when thief misses its back stab.

Ok.

[Sansar.1302]

I main a ranger and have a bit aces to stealth , but I cant see any problems with stealth in this game.And buff thief it is so weak now esp Dead Eye must 1 v 2 to have fun with them now :(

[Sandzibar.5134]

@Sansar.1302 said:I main a ranger and have a bit aces to stealth , but I cant see any problems with stealth in this game.And buff thief it is so weak now esp Dead Eye must 1 v 2 to have fun with them now :(

gr8 b8 m8.

:popcorn:

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Kondor.2904 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Kondor.2904 said:We can talk about anything related to stealth, when you get revealed upon missing any attack from stealth. Until then stop qq'ing.

And any missed attack puts you in combat too then?

Don't think that's necessary.

But it’s effectively the same thing. Combat takes one out of stealth. So, if ‘missing any attack while in stealth takes one out of stealth’ then it should put anyone into combat.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Bump

Could we have an b-net respons?

Tradeoff for other classes than thief in terms off marked revealed?no reg from traitsno clonesno Petno passiv life saveno holobolomodeno...no ... idk ...whatever makes no sense like reveal ...