Impact Strike update

[dDuff.3860]

Hello everyone.Since elite skills can't be recharged with the improvisation anymore, what about bringing some updates to the least used ones.

If you look at the impact strike, it is clearly a PvP oriented skill, which is balanced around high risk/high reward ratio since it can insta-kill people. However, if you look at it and compare to other abilities it becomes a questionable value.First of all it is a 3 strike chain skill, which require you to hit every single step in order to get access to the next one.How about bringing some additional value to each chain-strike?

For example,1st strike can be unblockable, its damage is quite low, and the daze there just to prevent enemy from reacting with the counter-pressure.2nd strike can boon thief with quickness on successful hit, since it is a knockdown, and its range is melee3rd strike can transfer a condition(s)/remove boons on hit. Think of you already stomping a downed enemy, a single shared aegis or blind will nulify all the combo you were performing which meant to be high risk/high reward.OR damage on 3rd part can be reconsidered a bit, or even reworked into, for example, insta-kill ppl which less than 10-15% hp, because as said above, it is a melee skill as a last part of combo, which already incredibly hard to land on moving targets.

I like impact strike and would love to use it, if thief had a single competitive choice but dagger storm

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

To be honest, I only really want Impact Strike to have the following;

• a dash mechanic from 300 range for each strike usable in midair.
• better animation with visual sprites so everyone know that you're using an Elite skill. The bigger the flashier the better.
• Also, it doesn't have to be fist, which is really weird since you're holding a weapon in each hand or using both hands. The first strike should be an elbow strike, followed by knee uppercut, and finish off with a drop kick using both legs. If the target is downed, we simply step on them with both feet -- M.Bison style.
• Also if you're using a staff, it should be a special animation doing the Impact Strike with your staff. First strike will be a dashing thrust, followed by the staff swing upward scoop, and finished with a staff ground slam.

[Alatar.7364]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be honest, I only really want Impact Strike to have the following;

• a dash mechanic from 300 range for each strike usable in midair.
• better animation with visual sprites so everyone know that you're using an Elite skill. The bigger the flashier the better.
• Also, it doesn't have to be fist, which is really weird since you're holding a weapon in each hand or using both hands. The first strike should be an elbow strike, followed by knee uppercut, and finish off with a drop kick using both legs. If the target is downed, we simply step on them with both feet -- M.Bison style.
• Also if you're using a staff, it should be a special animation doing the Impact Strike with your staff. First strike will be a dashing thrust, followed by the staff swing upward scoop, and finished with a staff ground slam.

I like these ideas a lot however as dDuff mentioned, it is a bit outdated skill, Combining your ideas with his would make for great Elite.

[Curennos.9307]

Sprinkling a bit of frontal block on the last strike of the chain would be nice - if you manage to hit the first 2/opponent fails to mitigate them, landing the third should be a bit less, dangerous, imo.

[Fractures.8267]

@dDuff.3860 said:

2nd strike can boon thief with quickness on successful hit, since it is a knockdown, and its range is melee

Absolutely not! That would give you an almost instant unstoppable finisher. Its bad enough with haste

[kash.9213]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be honest, I only really want Impact Strike to have the following;

• a dash mechanic from 300 range for each strike usable in midair.
• better animation with visual sprites so everyone know that you're using an Elite skill. The bigger the flashier the better.
• Also, it doesn't have to be fist, which is really weird since you're holding a weapon in each hand or using both hands. The first strike should be an elbow strike, followed by knee uppercut, and finish off with a drop kick using both legs. If the target is downed, we simply step on them with both feet -- M.Bison style.
• Also if you're using a staff, it should be a special animation doing the Impact Strike with your staff. First strike will be a dashing thrust, followed by the staff swing upward scoop, and finished with a staff ground slam.

I get air time on some skills with jump or jump+dodge to give animations some space and to clear topography, something like that would fit right in when I switch to DrD and wouldn't fall short so often. Impact Strike can be a little too contained, precise, and directional at the same time the larger a fight gets. I still like it for what it is right now because it's deliberate and strong at the right times but BV can kinda do what it does more safely, with more prep time, but from more sources and range.

[roamzero.9486]

impact strike would be nice if it worked underwater to use against those pesky rangers

[dDuff.3860]

@gdubze.6015 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

2nd strike can boon thief with quickness on successful hit, since it is a knockdown, and its range is melee

Absolutely not! That would give you an almost instant unstoppable finisher. Its bad enough with haste

When you actually use this skill in PvP there are numerous times, when you have to stow cast it, because target stunbroke, dodge, or you're blinded, Considering you had to hit first two chain-strikes, getting insta finisher would be neat.

Or you can just ignore my ideas and put CD to 30 sec.

[Fractures.8267]

@dDuff.3860 said:

When you actually use this skill in PvP there are numerous times, when you have to stow cast it, because target stunbroke, dodge, or you're blinded, Considering you had to hit first two chain-strikes, getting insta finisher would be neat.

Or you can just ignore my ideas and put CD to 30 sec.

Thing's need counterplay, if you had to slow cast it then you used it incorrectly and should be punished for it! Simple.

[Curennos.9307]

@gdubze.6015 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

When you actually use this skill in PvP there are numerous times, when you have to stow cast it, because target stunbroke, dodge, or you're blinded, Considering you had to hit first two chain-strikes, getting insta finisher would be neat.

Or you can just ignore my ideas and put CD to 30 sec.

Thing's need counterplay, if you had to slow cast it then you used it incorrectly and should be punished for it! Simple.

The counterplay is that it's a 3-chain-strike skill that takes a grand total of almost 3 seconds to hit, and the last - most impactful - strike takes up more than a third of that time. Nobody paying the slightest bit of attention, unless outnumbered to the point of death anyway, should ever get hit by it. Gee, I wonder why it doesn't see much use.

Even with quickness it'd be 3/4 of a sec at 130 range.

There's a LOT of counterplay already and adding quickness on successful 2nd hit wouldn't change that daggerstorm is still probably stronger.

[Fractures.8267]

every finisher should take sometime to execute. stop trying to make more braindead insta-gib spam fest! look at all the finishers this is relatively quick already and with quickness you still have more of an advantage than most finisher style skills. and making it unblockable to is just laughable at this point in the game

[Curennos.9307]

@gdubze.6015 said:every finisher should take sometime to execute. stop trying to make more braindead insta-gib spam fest! look at all the finishers this is relatively quick already and with quickness you still have more of an advantage than most finisher style skills. and making it unblockable to is just laughable at this point in the game

Then stop sprouting unsupported nonsense.

'all the finishers' - you mean...what, all....oh wait, there's...warrior's banner? I think? Did they change anything else? And the WvW mount skill, I guess?

'relatively quick' - compared to what? A tempest's overload? What is Impact Strike quick in comparison to, I'm dying to know here.

'every finisher should take some time to execute' - well, yeah, having things instant would be OP. But it's not instant or even close to it, even with quickness.

Right now avoiding Impact Strike is braindead. You can probably CC and then kill the thief in the time it takes for them to cast the last hit of the chain. A thief? With a 1+ sec cast time? No easy access to stab you say? Whoa.

[dDuff.3860]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@gdubze.6015 said:every finisher should take sometime to execute. stop trying to make more braindead insta-gib spam fest! look at all the finishers this is relatively quick already and with quickness you still have more of an advantage than most finisher style skills. and making it unblockable to is just laughable at this point in the game

Then stop sprouting unsupported nonsense.

'all the finishers' - you mean...what, all....oh wait, there's...warrior's banner? I think? Did they change anything else? And the WvW mount skill, I guess?

'relatively quick' - compared to what? A tempest's overload? What is Impact Strike quick in comparison to, I'm dying to know here.

'every finisher should take some time to execute' - well, yeah, having things instant would be OP. But it's not instant or even close to it, even with quickness.

Right now avoiding Impact Strike is braindead. You can probably CC and then kill the thief in the time it takes for them to cast the last hit of the chain. A thief? With a 1+ sec cast time? No easy access to stab you say? Whoa.

Where WvW mount is quite instant i'd say :D

Value from Impact strike is big, but with considered risk and actual complexity of execution it really can be buffed in some way especially after improvisation not being able to recharge it anymore.

[Fractures.8267]

engi, warrior, thief as far as finishers go thief is the most op one already with daze knockback and the finisher. i guess its a little hard to think when all you can do is facerollthekeyboard, dont take it personal like it seems you are. its a bad idea and no digging at me for saying its a bad idea is going to change that

[Curennos.9307]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:

@gdubze.6015 said:every finisher should take sometime to execute. stop trying to make more braindead insta-gib spam fest! look at all the finishers this is relatively quick already and with quickness you still have more of an advantage than most finisher style skills. and making it unblockable to is just laughable at this point in the game

Then stop sprouting unsupported nonsense.

'all the finishers' - you mean...what, all....oh wait, there's...warrior's banner? I think? Did they change anything else? And the WvW mount skill, I guess?

'relatively quick' - compared to what? A tempest's overload? What is Impact Strike quick in comparison to, I'm dying to know here.

'every finisher should take some time to execute' - well, yeah, having things instant would be OP. But it's not instant or even close to it, even with quickness.

Right now avoiding Impact Strike is braindead. You can probably CC and then kill the thief in the time it takes for them to cast the last hit of the chain. A thief? With a 1+ sec cast time? No easy access to stab you say? Whoa.

Where WvW mount is quite instant i'd say :D

Value from Impact strike is big, but with considered risk and actual complexity of execution it really can be buffed in some way especially after improvisation not being able to recharge it anymore.

Ah, good point. Forgot about the improv change. Maybe they could shorten the cast time of the last hit (not too much, else quickness would make it stupid - and add a health threshhold for the execute? Since it's a power based skill, it's still subject to the the whims of crits.

Just tested. I hit 1900 ish no crit on a light armor golem. Then a 4k crit. That's 11% and 23% of my own health pool, respectively. Say, put it at 'if the dmg brings you below 15-20% health'. It won't change much on low health targets because they'd die anyway if the thief was running anything else, and will help against burly targets that have a ton of healing/prot. Slap a stack of stability on there (1 stack, 2-3 sec) and call it a day.

Also goodness gracious it would be great if we could 'cook' the last strike a bit longer. I tried it on a golem and even if you hit the first two strikes, the 3rd sticks around for maybe 3 seconds.

[dDuff.3860]

tbh @bluri.2653 during stream said exactly the same about buffing impact strike. Give resistance to third strike and make it unblockable.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be honest, I only really want Impact Strike to have the following;

• a dash mechanic from 300 range for each strike usable in midair.
• better animation with visual sprites so everyone know that you're using an Elite skill. The bigger the flashier the better.
• Also, it doesn't have to be fist, which is really weird since you're holding a weapon in each hand or using both hands. The first strike should be an elbow strike, followed by knee uppercut, and finish off with a drop kick using both legs. If the target is downed, we simply step on them with both feet -- M.Bison style.
• Also if you're using a staff, it should be a special animation doing the Impact Strike with your staff. First strike will be a dashing thrust, followed by the staff swing upward scoop, and finished with a staff ground slam.

Have a thumbs up good sir! First point is severely needed for this skill alone!

As for the drop kick anim, only if it’s a spinning drop kick.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@gdubze.6015 said:engi, warrior, thief as far as finishers go thief is the most op one already with daze knockback and the finisher. i guess its a little hard to think when all you can do is facerollthekeyboard, dont take it personal like it seems you are. its a bad idea and no digging at me for saying its a bad idea is going to change that

Use this for 20 matches, and I guarantee you won't complete this skill even 10 times successfully. If you dont play thief ever, I'll even say less than 5.

And out of those successful chains, most won't be finishing the target off.

[Fractures.8267]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@gdubze.6015 said:engi, warrior, thief as far as finishers go thief is the most op one already with daze knockback and the finisher. i guess its a little hard to think when all you can do is facerollthekeyboard, dont take it personal like it seems you are. its a bad idea and no digging at me for saying its a bad idea is going to change that

Use this for 20 matches, and I guarantee you won't complete this skill even 10 times successfully. If you dont play thief ever, I'll even say less than 5.

And out of those successful chains, most won't be finishing the target off.

Maybe you should try playing it with lesser haste or haste instead of spouting off you cannot complete the skill. If you think you should be able to use this skill without sacrificing something else for it then being as its a finisher then honestly I am done with this conversation.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@gdubze.6015 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@gdubze.6015 said:engi, warrior, thief as far as finishers go thief is the most op one already with daze knockback and the finisher. i guess its a little hard to think when all you can do is facerollthekeyboard, dont take it personal like it seems you are. its a bad idea and no digging at me for saying its a bad idea is going to change that

Use this for 20 matches, and I guarantee you won't complete this skill even 10 times successfully. If you dont play thief ever, I'll even say less than 5.

And out of those successful chains, most won't be finishing the target off.

Maybe you should try playing it with lesser haste or haste instead of spouting off you cannot complete the skill. If you think you should be able to use this skill without sacrificing something else for it then being as its a finisher then honestly I am done with this conversation.

Yeah, I'm done talking to you too.

[Fractures.8267]

Thats because you would rather keep all you're cheese skills and have your cake and eat it too than run skills that synergize with it.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@gdubze.6015 said:engi, warrior, thief as far as finishers go thief is the most op one already with daze knockback and the finisher. i guess its a little hard to think when all you can do is facerollthekeyboard, dont take it personal like it seems you are. its a bad idea and no digging at me for saying its a bad idea is going to change that

Use this for 20 matches, and I guarantee you won't complete this skill even 10 times successfully. If you dont play thief ever, I'll even say less than 5.

And out of those successful chains, most won't be finishing the target off.

The way I'm doing to complete the chain is: impact 1 -> swipe-> impact 2 -> impact 3. Without the swipe before impact 2, it will never connect. The stun is not long enough to finish the casting time on impact 2, which is almost always will miss if you try to use it after impact 1. It's annoying that I'd rather take Dagger Storm.

Of course this is assuming that your target is not dodging, breaking stun, or have passive defense that triggers before they die. Not to mention, Impact Strike is not unblockable so an Aegis can pop up to ruin your day. However, with Quickness, you can chain these skills rather smoothly, but you'll have to give up a utility slot for Haste.

[dDuff.3860]

I mean you already sacrificing dagger storm slot for that skill...

[Crab Fear.1624]

@dDuff.3860 said:I mean you already sacrificing dagger storm slot for that skill...

Probably will need a little CD increase with some of the proposed changes unless you already mentioned one?

[Curennos.9307]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:I mean you already sacrificing dagger storm slot for that skill...

Probably will need a little CD increase with some of the proposed changes unless you already mentioned one?

Someone further up in the thread mentioned a CD increase, IIRC.

50-70 seconds should be decent enough if it's buffed to have some combination of unblockable/etc.

DS is at 72(?)/90 sec CD but can't exactly 'miss'. CD needs to be high enough that your opponent shouldn't have to deal with multiple uses (and if they do the fight is taking too long), but short enough you can use it once per fight if you want to give up the other elite skills in exchange for a bit of extra OOMPH in finsihing off an opponent.

Personally, I would make it so that the opponent HAS to dodge. Unblockable and blind immunity. They'll already get three chances to negate the skill anyway