How big is the gap between T3 and T4 fracs? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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How big is the gap between T3 and T4 fracs?

Hi all,
I'm climbing up the fractal ladder and have almost hit T4
I wanted to know if the difficulty of T4 is a huge difference from T3?

Do I also require to have training sessions in T4's similar to raids? (requiring proof of experience before joining partys)
I clear raid bosses regularly but have no idea what T4 is going to be like

Comments

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    You get an additional instability. Thats it mostly. The difficulty comes with 99 + 100 challenge modes or speedrunning fractals without a healer but only experienced groups do that.

  • Kumouta.4985Kumouta.4985 Member ✭✭✭

    not big enough to warrant the ridiculous elitism in t4.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2019

    In general, normal T4 are often easier than T3. Sure, you have an extra instability, enemies are scaled up a tad further, but overall the player quality is better (compared to T3, there is enough bad players in T4 too).

    The only real gating happening in T4 is along these lines:

    • groups will often want at least 1 healer (even for regular T4)
    • groups might prefer certain dps classes (seldom but does come up)
    • Challenge Mode groups will often require a certain amount of kill proof and specific class compositions

    Otherwise, some stuff is less forgiving (even less face tanking damage than in T3) and the required agony resistance is higher, making ascended armor pretty much a must have for new T4 players. If you have some raid experience, you should be fine.

  • Honestly, after the first time you play through each of the T4 fracs it is pretty simple. Having a healer makes it easier, having quickness and/or alacrity makes it easier. For regular T4s Banner Slave isn't even required for a smooth run, things just die too fast for the banners to be worth the time to place only to pick up 20s later.

    My advice is once you start doing T4s is to take note of the people you enjoyed playing with and add them to your friends list. Send them a whisper at reset to see if they want to play with you again. Before long you'll have yourself a static group that you can rely fairly well on. That or join a guild that does FotM regularly.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2019

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    not big enough to warrant the ridiculous elitism in t4.

    This. T4 lfg makes it seem really difficult and that theres strict party composition. Its not and there isn't.

    T4 is often easier than t3 because people know whats going on.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2019

    It's somewhat harder; have to pay more attention to CC. Also with 3 instabilities comes with some bad combos so there can be higher variance with difficulty. If your people are willing to switch around utilities it should be fine but every now and then you get people that ignore chat and things go south. Things to watch out for in particular are no pain no gain (need boon strip), afflicted (need cleanses), frailty, and we bleed fire (need reflects)

    You don't need training; if you can pull your weight in t3s, you should do fine in t4 if you pay attention.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    I wanted to know if the difficulty of T4 is a huge difference from T3?

    The difference is smaller than between t2 and t3, as that is where the main division line in non-cm fractals is placed.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    If you climbed upto T4 and survived T3 by yourself, just have 150 AR and you're good to go. You've probably seen almost all of the fight mechanics. When you get a good group composition, you will be surprised at how quick and easy fotms are.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • T4 might be easier to play compared to T3 because group usually consist of more focused players.

  • @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

  • @DesiRe.1348 said:

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

    And when’s the last time you did T3? If you get a decent group 1/10 times in T4, then you get a decent group 1/100 times in T3.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solnos.8045 said:

    @DesiRe.1348 said:

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

    And when’s the last time you did T3? If you get a decent group 1/10 times in T4, then you get a decent group 1/100 times in T3.

    I've probably seen the most creativity in t3 fractals (not in a good way).

    Short bow poison theif. Rage quit when he kept dying oh arkk because he couldnt stop auto attacking to turn his character away.

    Longbow tank ranger. Wore full nomads to "distract the enemy so his pet could do damage"

    Shortbow power ranger. At least you attack fast?

    Heal ranger. Not druid. Base. Ranger.

    (Why are ranger players so terrible?)

    Rifle PS warrior...?

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2019

    @Solnos.8045 said:

    @DesiRe.1348 said:

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

    And when’s the last time you did T3? If you get a decent group 1/10 times in T4, then you get a decent group 1/100 times in T3.

    You don't need a decent or even full group in t3 though.

    I suppose if you have a negative contributor (eg someone spamming knockbacks) it could be trouble. And to be fair, my friends and I would rather do it with 3 people for t3 recs rather than going through the hassle of a party.

    i think it is dependent on the time of day you play as well; usually better groups are closer to reset. And of course t4s are easy when you roll something like uncategorized/chaos/urban but other times getting those pug killer fractals (Siren's, Twilight, Mai Trinn), it could be trouble.

  • @Solnos.8045 said:

    @DesiRe.1348 said:

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

    And when’s the last time you did T3? If you get a decent group 1/10 times in T4, then you get a decent group 1/100 times in T3.

    Touche, T3 might be worse, i dont know. But in T4 "most of the people" certainly do not "actually know what they're doing.".

  • Despond.2174Despond.2174 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:
    T4 might be easier to play compared to T3 because group usually consist of more focused players.

    @DesiRe.1348 said:

    @Solnos.8045 said:
    I think T4 is actually easier than T3 because most of the people actually know what they're doing.

    Hahahahahaha. Nice joke. General player quality is depressing to be honest. Of 10 times doing T4 pugs you might get a decent group once (twice, if lucky), where everyone knows what they are doing and you one-shot every encounter and are done with all 3 fractals in 20-35 minutes depending on the daily fractal.

    I think T4 is better than a coin flip if you look for the signs. While it's not concrete some things to consider are:

    1. Depending on the actual fractal daily, generally groups LF 1 healer or having a healer
    2. If a group is stacking 3 of the same profs+specialty etc, it's usually a bad sign in terms of utility options etc.
    3. Don't join a group that doesn't pot+food. It's such a basic requirement and if you see 1-2 peopel who won't even use 20 copper food then why should you waste your time? By T4s you should be able to buy pots very comfortably and it makes a massive difference if every player has them.
    4. This is a loose sign but there's some truth - nothing to do with elitism. If you really just want people as experienced as you, things like mastery count, titles etc usually are a good sign they have experience overall. Probability they have more experience and know-how is more likely.

    I pug all my T4s for years and that list is just some examples of signs you can try to some what help before you start with a group. Other signs you can only tell while actually in the fractals, and then that's a bit too late.

    Some days if you get 2 notorious fractals in your daily it may just be best to skip it if you're short on time.

    T4 dailies should be 20-30min with a normal group given average maps. Some of the fastest runs that are like 15min total and under are obviously days with easy maps and a good comp that can portal jump sections or do some mechanics faster like necro doing reactor core room while the rest do another etc.

  • Yea you are right, most of those signals can be a decent indicator. However, I usually start my own group, looking for the usual meta comp or even the older chrono/druid one. Even if I have a full group and we go, alot of times theres people in the group WITH max masteries, and unclean title and 20k AP and all that stuff, and they still play poorly. Or rather - well - don't know what they are doing.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There obviously is a reason why people stick to CM+T4 groups and then even ask for a high amount of Essences and/or the Fractal Champ/God title to weed out further players - if they don't already entirely forgo this process by forming statics. And the reason is not unwarranted elitism as some people still seem to think.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    Hi all,
    I'm climbing up the fractal ladder and have almost hit T4
    I wanted to know if the difficulty of T4 is a huge difference from T3?

    Do I also require to have training sessions in T4's similar to raids? (requiring proof of experience before joining partys)
    I clear raid bosses regularly but have no idea what T4 is going to be like

    the mechanics dont change, so basically what u know in t3 serves to t4.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    I can't remember when I hit T4, its such a long time ago. And when people speak of difficulty in T4 I can't even comprehend what they mean. For me running T4 is like running a normal dungeon. There is nothing special about it since as long as you understand what there is to do and how to go about it, you will just easily beat any T4 fractal without a single bit of struggle. Really, a normal T4 group just rushes through it.
    Instabilities? With the removal of slippery slope and the angry bird thing there is only a single instability that makes me change my gameplay: No Pain No Gain. Because it requires me to switch to violet demon monkey mode on my revenant when playing CM. That's it. All other instabilities are just... there.

    Now what I have heard is that a lot of people in T3 aren't that good and can become quite toxic too. They are about to realize that their skill and understanding has to go from casual to "post-casual", meaning you have to memorize what the best strategies in each T4 are and how to execute them, what to look out for and maybe even adjust your gear to pump out more reasonable dmg numbers so the whole thing doesnt take forever.
    That's why once you have reached the upper levels of T4 suddenly everything feels like a T1 - just much faster. People there have played thousands and thousands of fractals. Many of them run CMs, have optimized gear and simply know every little thing about any fractal. It's completely routinized.

  • Just to update,
    I have been playing t4 ever since this post on a daily basis

    So far I have found that t4 is actually easier than t3. Not through difficulty but 98% of the time everyone knows what to do, and if you down people res you straight away.

    I've had maybe 2 experience where people rage quit but quitters will always be quitters

    It's really not hard at all, to sum it all up if you can do t3 then t4 is no issue

    If anyone was or is in the same shoe as me .. done t3 but scared to go to t4. There is nothing to be afraid of ! You dont really even need to run full meta raid builds to clear it and the general public is normally really nice people most of the time :)

  • Having played fractals since they came out, I have observed that tier 2 and 3 was harder to deal with because of player performance compared to tier 4. Hear me out on why;

    Tier 4 people are mainly end game players. They have theoretically, by that time, played their characters well and most often build parties with; dps/boons/heals. When you have good personal performance from each player, a good team comp, and exp fractal runners it is a breeze. You will find it to become a lot easier now that you are meshing with decent/good players compared to prior tiers.

    It may sound like I was silently judging those that play tier 2 and 3. That answer is yes. Those tiers don't have a larger pool of players to play roles of a balanced comp. The difficulty of handling hard instabilities becomes a lot harder. Make sure when you get into tier 4, try to build a party of 3 dps, 2 support: (druid/chrono)(healbrand/alac-renegade). When you do like that, all tier 4's are a comfortable fun experience. I do not suggest running any tier 4 without at least a healer. Boons are your friend, the faster stuff dies, the less damage you receive that could have been lethal.

    Put all that in a pot and you will be cooking tier 4's on the daily.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    run from t3 asap. mentality of ppl there, may drag u down. t4 are way easier imo, as ppl there usually kinda know what to do

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    gap between t3 and t4 is about as big as the gap between t2 and t1.

    with t2 harder than t1, and t3 harder than t4

  • shippage.1983shippage.1983 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    not big enough to warrant the ridiculous elitism in t4.

    Elitism isn't too bad in T4s. It's in CMs where it gets pretty bad...

  • ProtoGunner.4953ProtoGunner.4953 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My experience: T3 not so hard, good players but not the best. T4: sometimes really hard. Extremely depending what fractal, but usually you also have really good players who know what to do. But there are fractals - for example Siren's - which I don't do with a generic group but only with players from our guild I know.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shippage.1983 said:

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    not big enough to warrant the ridiculous elitism in t4.

    Elitism isn't too bad in T4s. It's in CMs where it gets pretty bad...

    cant rly agree. iv met the worst toxic elitism int not to much expirienced groups i think, regardless if it was cms or just t4s. For example healbrand kitten on ppl for low dps lmao. Ofc there are rly good and toxic players, but i cant say thers more of them than bad ones, that are stuck in t3

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • @Safandula.8723 said:

    @shippage.1983 said:

    @Kumouta.4985 said:
    not big enough to warrant the ridiculous elitism in t4.

    Elitism isn't too bad in T4s. It's in CMs where it gets pretty bad...

    cant rly agree. iv met the worst toxic elitism int not to much expirienced groups i think, regardless if it was cms or just t4s. For example healbrand kitten on ppl for low dps lmao. Ofc there are rly good and toxic players, but i cant say thers more of them than bad ones, that are stuck in t3

    If you sacrifice yourself and play HB and some necro or ranger comes along and they stay 10 ft away from group and just range doing sub 3k dps. HB has every right to kitten on ppl for dps.
    I am no elite by any means but that is just too irritating.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2020

    T3 is the "elohell" of fractals, the difficulty gap between T2 and T3 is incredibly high it punishes players that didn't learn to dodge and how mechanics work. And T4 is the place where all experienced players practically farm everyday, there is no KP, I suggest you to learn to pull out like... 60% of a snowcrows benchmark or something and you'll be fine.

    Forgot to answer: not really, there isn't much differience between T3 and T4 other than the AR asked

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    Extra instablity in T4, otherwise no notable difference if you have AR and know the fractal's general path.