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Poll: Build Templates


Mrs Lana.2506

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Sure, let's make ANet a charity.Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

Yes, from now on it will probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely wasn't.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Sure, let's make ANet a charity.Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

Yes, from now on it
will
probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely
wasn't
.

So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for? Aside from some token items, I can't think of any. Paying for services and features like this is definitely the standard expectation that EVERY player should have.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Sure, let's make ANet a charity.Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

Yes, from now on it
will
probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely
wasn't
.

So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).Need i go on?

Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features.

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how I understand no one who use previous default from gw2 after that update not have some bad.Problem and some saddens only who use arc for templates. For me that arc was to heavy understandable for templates.

Currently I use peace of paper to swap build from open world/fractal. Will I use templates - no. Is that update ok for me ? YES. This is good. Why not(for me)?

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I really don't see why people who don't need templates, never used templates and never thought about using even completely free of charge (superior) templates, feel the need to keep stating over and over how this new system from Anet is fine for them.Of course it is. You don't need templates, so any form of them no matter how bad or expensive is fine for you. We get it.It's just pretty unclear what that contributes to the discussion about the problems at hand for those who do require templates to properly play the game the way they play it.

For those who actually made use of and need extensive Template functionality to enjoy the game, these Templates are not fit for purpose.Even if they were completely free, they would still be way too limited and clunky in their functionality to be an actual convenience.

Don't get me wrong, features like the build sharing via chat etc. are amazing. But all those great features like that which they are adding in the patch will be useless for hardcore players, if you then can't save all those builds into a robust and extensive Template feature like Arc had.

And no, we don't need to wait until the patch is out to make that assessment. They have shown their functionality on stream and we do know they don't fit our needs from that, unless they made some significant amount of changes in that month until release, which, considering they have been in development for 2 years to get to that point is pretty unlikely.Plus it's generally a good idea to try to give constructive feedback before something gets released, especially if it's something that's going to be charged for, as that makes post launch changes fairly unlikely once money has exchanged hands.

The only thing we don't know for sure yet is how hard they are going to monetise this system in terms of pricing, just to get it to a point where it's half way useable, but from their preliminary ideas mentioned on stream it will be hundreds of Euros total, just to make one character of each profession playable in high demand content, or various different pieces of content.

That's just not feasible or reasonable.

We also don't need to save inventory space with Gear templates. We already bought bag slots with invisible bags for that, we already have invested into legendary gear for that.If I have two builds, using the exact same Trinkets and Weapons, and simply just need to change out some stats or runes on my Legendary armor between the two builds (for ex. full Berseker DPS DH to Power Quickbrand with some Diviners, or some Marauder with Firework Runes for Open World etc.), I will be expected to buy an entire Gear Template slot, even though it's going to save me literally 0 inventory slots, or at best 1 for the stack of different Runes, for a premium "bank tab level" price, just because there are x potential slots of inventory saved in that in theory, which doesn't apply to me.How is charging possibly nearly 10€ to save one inventory slot, per character, per build, okay in any way?

The only alternative is swapping all those Legendary pieces by hand every time, which is not only a pain to do and makes everybody in a Raid or Fractal etc. wait for you, it also makes me question what the point of the Template feature then is in the first place, if we are still going to have to do most by hand anyway? And further, why to ever bother with Legendary gear, when all it does is make swapping by hand more of an inconvenience compared to Ascended sets.On top of that, of course, with only 6 maximum slots, even with buying all of them, it won't be nearly enough to save all the gear combinations between multiple different Raid builds, the stat difference of those same builds in Fractals considering the free stats gained there, as well as WvW and Open World builds.

TL;DR:We get it, for those of you who don't need templates and never made use of them in the past, this coming system will be fine, and some of the free additions like build sharing via chat will indeed be a cool feature for everybody.But for those of us who actually need templates, those who the feature is actually targeted at, it's not fit for purpose.That is completely besides taking any cost even into account, which then just adds salt to the wound, making it even more prohibitive on top.

//As an additional note, it's frankly pretty tiring, as well as diminishing to the discussion, to constantly have the arguments and points of those reasonably criticising this feature and it's downfalls misrepresented as simply entitlement about wanting everything for free etc.. Just because you are ignorant on the topic of templates and the gameplay demands of hardcore players, doesn't make the complains unreasonable, and just because you personally won't be negatively affected by this system is no cause for arrogance.You are doing no one favour with that, be it yourself, hardcore players, or Anet and the health of the game for that matter.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod.

It really does.

It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it.

It wasn't blacklisted because they were obligated to take it down when the official templates come. Being surprised that a company tries to monetize something when you can pretty much play for free is also hard to understand for me.

If a company can't come up with a solution that is better than a free 3rd party mod and needs to actually ban that free mod to be able to sell their product then it has big issues.So yeah I guess it matters that ArcDPS is a free mod.I have nothing against monetization of good products that can stand up by their own. I do have concerns when you have to go and ban a free product made by one guy because your own product is worse.

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So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).Need i go on?

Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about
selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features
.

Except this time not everybody has to pay for the feature, only the people who will be using it will need to pay.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Sure, let's make ANet a charity.Sure, let's make GW2 a game where we need to pay for every single future upgrade. Individually, per upgrade, at a cost (again, per upgrade) much greater than once it would be normal to see for a whole expac including several of those upgrades.I just wonder what gemshop connection they will manage to create with level 500 jeweller.

Why do you think isn't already? From where I sit, everything I have in this game I got because I purchased it ... either with my money or my time .. I'm pretty sure no one is different than this. We already do pay for every single future upgrade.You might want to read beyond just first sentence next time.

Yes, from now on it
will
probably be like that - but until not so long ago it definitely
wasn't
.

So what things has Anet ever given us that we don't pay for?Wardrobe, for example. Level 500 of all crafts except for jeweller and cook. Ascended. LFG system. Fractals. Aetherpath. Whole of LS1, for that matter. All of those were introduced after launch. None of them were dependant on gemshop purchases to function - all could be utilized fully without spending even a single gem (whether bought for real cash or for gold).Need i go on?

Besides, i have noticed that you still either haven't read beyond my first sentence or simply wanted to avoid addressing the core of my complain. You know, the one about
selling each small individual feature at a cost that, when taken together, is much, much greater than the cost of an expac that once would have contained all those features
.

No, those aren't free. They are part of the core game you paid to get access to so my statement is correct; we pay for everything we get. But yes, please go on and demonstrate that you don't know what you give Anet money for. Besides, this comparision with the expansions cost makes no sense to begin with ... it's completely arbitrary and other quantity-based features were not introduced with expansions either. None of that argument makes any sense.

And yes, i did read that ... that's also a demonstration you don't understand something. In this case, economy of scale. NO feature Anet can sell individually will EVER be cheaper than what you would pay for it bundled with an expansion. That's a completely reasonable expectation. It happens ALL the time everywhere.

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@Cuks.8241 said:

@Cuks.8241 said:It really doesn't matter if it's a 3rd party mod.

It really does.

It is out there, it was not blacklisted and people use it.

It wasn't blacklisted because they were obligated to take it down when the official templates come. Being surprised that a company tries to monetize something when you can pretty much play for free is also hard to understand for me.

If a company can't come up with a solution that is better than a free 3rd party mod and needs to actually ban that free mod to be able to sell their product then it has big issues.So yeah I guess it matters that ArcDPS is a free mod.I have nothing against monetization of good products that can stand up by their own. I do have concerns when you have to go and ban a free product made by one guy because your own product is worse.

What do you mean it "can't come up with a solution"? Arcdps couldn't monetize because it was 3rd party and if they -officially- tried, they'd get their software blacklisted. Anet can montize and that's why they do it. Where did you come with that idea that they "can't do it like 3rd party could" or that they "banned it because their is worse"? What solution do you propose here? Other than "just do it for free lul", because that's just being silly and unrealistic.

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@"Asum.4960" said:I really don't see why people who don't need templates, never used templates and never thought about using even completely free of charge (superior) templates, feel the need to keep stating over and over how this new system from Anet is fine for them.Of course it is. You don't need templates, so any form of them no matter how bad or expensive is fine for you. We get it.It's just pretty unclear what that contributes to the discussion about the problems at hand for those who do require templates to properly play the game the way they play it.

For those who actually made use of and need extensive Template functionality to enjoy the game, these Templates are not fit for purpose.Even if they were completely free, they would still be way too limited and clunky in their functionality to be an actual convenience.

Don't get me wrong, features like the build sharing via chat etc. are amazing. But all those great features like that which they are adding in the patch will be useless for hardcore players, if you then can't save all those builds into a robust and extensive Template feature like Arc had.

And no, we don't need to wait until the patch is out to make that assessment. They have shown their functionality on stream and we do know they don't fit our needs from that, unless they made some significant amount of changes in that month until release, which, considering they have been in development for 2 years to get to that point is pretty unlikely.Plus it's generally a good idea to try to give constructive feedback before something gets released, especially if it's something that's going to be charged for, as that makes post launch changes fairly unlikely once money has exchanged hands.

The only thing we don't know for sure yet is how hard they are going to monetise this system in terms of pricing, just to get it to a point where it's half way useable, but from their preliminary ideas mentioned on stream it will be hundreds of Euros total, just to make one character of each profession playable in high demand content, or various different pieces of content.

That's just not feasible or reasonable.

We also don't need to save inventory space with Gear templates. We already bought bag slots with invisible bags for that, we already have invested into legendary gear for that.If I have two builds, using the exact same Trinkets and Weapons, and simply just need to change out some stats or runes on my Legendary armor between the two builds (for ex. full Berseker DPS DH to Power Quickbrand with some Diviners, or some Marauder with Firework Runes for Open World etc.), I will be expected to buy an entire Gear Template slot, even though it's going to save me literally 0 inventory slots, or at best 1 for the stack of different Runes, for a premium "bank tab level" price, just because there are x potential slots of inventory saved in that in theory, which doesn't apply to me.How is charging possibly nearly 10€ to save one inventory slot, per character, per build, okay in any way?

The only alternative is swapping all those Legendary pieces by hand every time, which is not only a pain to do and makes everybody in a Raid or Fractal etc. wait for you, it also makes me question what the point of the Template feature then is in the first place, if we are still going to have to do most by hand anyway? And further, why to ever bother with Legendary gear, when all it does is make swapping by hand more of an inconvenience compared to Ascended sets.On top of that, of course, with only 6 maximum slots, even with buying all of them, it won't be nearly enough to save all the gear combinations between multiple different Raid builds, the stat difference of those same builds in Fractals considering the free stats gained there, as well as WvW and Open World builds.

TL;DR:We get it, for those of you who don't need templates and never made use of them in the past, this coming system will be fine, and some of the free additions like build sharing via chat will indeed be a cool feature for everybody.But for those of us who actually need templates, those who the feature is actually targeted at, it's not fit for purpose.That is completely besides taking any cost even into account, which then just adds salt to the wound, making it even more prohibitive on top.

//As an additional note, it's frankly pretty tiring, as well as diminishing to the discussion, to constantly have the arguments and points of those reasonably criticising this feature and it's downfalls misrepresented as simply entitlement about wanting everything for free etc.. Just because you are ignorant on the topic of templates and the gameplay demands of hardcore players, doesn't make the complains unreasonable, and just because you personally won't be negatively affected by this system is no cause for arrogance.You are doing no one favour with that, be it yourself, hardcore players, or Anet and the health of the game for that matter.

Extremely well stated.

Arc's build templates worked well with legendary armor, and gave me a reason to actually go for it. It utilised and even enhanced the reason why I wanted to get the legendary armor. The system that they're implementing just hamstrings legendary gear completely, and makes me want my time and gold back. Why bother finishing my last armor set when the official bt system won't enhance it's utility? Why do that when I can save money just by making more ascended sets? It makes me feel like my time and resources were absolutely wasted, as the stat swapping was the only reason for me to get them.

The point is devs put the legendary functionality into the game. Their official bt should enhance the usefulness of legendaries and not hamstring it.

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