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[merged] I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/


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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"flog.3485" said:And somehow you don’t think that the introduction of a new free big update doesn’t need a new kind of revenue stream?Why would it need a
new
revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it? Are you suggesting they are so poor they need to heavily monetize stuff like the templates now just to keep afloat? If so, that doesn't bode well for th future, you know.

like didnt they just recently have a mass layoff?
  1. layoff reduced their costs, not increased it.
  2. there were times in their past when they had even less developers, and yet didn't need to fund each new LS with adding anything beyond new skins to gemshop - and even those were at a level that was a bit tamer than it is now (remember, single skins for 2k gems are something that only happened after PoF)

of course, if you're saying that layoffs are just a sign that situation in Anet is really bad, and they are indeed so desperate they
needed
to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, you may be right. But then it would be exactly as i said - it would be a very, very bad sign concerning the game's future. As in, a big question mark about whether this game even
has
a future.

Both of you should know the layoffs were not just something to reduce cost it was also to force anet to focus on guild wars 2 which was starting to die. They had less and less people working on gw2 and were pulling people from gw2 to work on other unannounced projects.

Your information here is so incorrect its mind blowingHow is it incorrect? Again, if the situation at Anet is so bad they
needed
to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, then it's
really
bad. And if it's not so bad, then we're back to the previous question: Why would new LS release need a
new
revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it?

In the end, there are only two possibilities here.
  1. They didn't need a new revenue stream, and heavily monetizing templates was just a cheap cash grab,or
  2. They did need to monetize templates, at the cost to their usefulness. In that case, the situation at Anet is really bad, and we
    can
    worry about the future.

I cant say I agree without proof to be honest with you.Where is the hard proof that they need the money more or less why try to make the most gain with a system that you are offering with a free base for all players?

There is a whole forum dedicated to the idea of new gem store items that anet can pull and tinker with adding to the game that would easily generate money much more quickly with likely much less investment. I just dont think this is a truthful case with what you are suggesting.

If they wanted easy money why not make ascended foods or ingredients directly purchasable from the gem store for cheap with the cooking 500 update?Why not make options where you can pay to skip some of the quest waiting time (which some people would surely pay to do.)Why not just make war claw a buyable unlock for your account allowing a player to skip the quest if they wanted.

There are just so many other better opportunities they could have used for "A cheap cash grab" if they were just out of the money which is why i dont agree with your statement.

But yeah this is why i think your statement is incorrect.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:How is it incorrect? Again, if the situation at Anet is so bad they
needed
to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, then it's
really
bad. And if it's not so bad, then we're back to the previous question: Why would new LS release need a
new
revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it?

In the end, there are only two possibilities here.
  1. They didn't need a new revenue stream, and heavily monetizing templates was just a cheap cash grab,or
  2. They did need to monetize templates, at the cost to their usefulness. In that case, the situation at Anet is really bad, and we
    can
    worry about the future.

I cant say I agree without proof to be honest with you.Where is the hard proof that they need the money more or less why try to make the most gain with a system that you are offering with a free base for all players?The system has been specifically designed to be monetized, so much that it negatively affected it's primary functionality. Why? I see only 2 answers, which i included in my previous post. If you see a different reason for crippling a highly desired QoL system's functionality, please, say so.

There is a whole forum dedicated to the idea of new gem store items that anet can pull and tinker with adding to the game that would easily generate money much more quickly with likely much less investment. I just dont think this is a truthful case with what you are suggesting.See above.

If they wanted easy money why not make ascended foods or ingredients directly purchasable from the gem store for cheap with the cooking 500 update?Well, they did make the level 500 cooking effectiveness heavily dependable on gemstore purchases, didn't they...

There are just so many other better opportunities they could have used for "A cheap cash grab" if they were just out of the money which is why i dont agree with your statement.Okay, so, tell me why do
you
think they needed to monetize the template system so much it negatively impacted its usefulness.I'm waiting.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:How is it incorrect? Again, if the situation at Anet is so bad they
needed
to monetize templates so heavily just to get by, then it's
really
bad. And if it's not so bad, then we're back to the previous question: Why would new LS release need a
new
revenue stream, if all previous LS seasons didn't need it?

In the end, there are only two possibilities here.
  1. They didn't need a new revenue stream, and heavily monetizing templates was just a cheap cash grab,or
  2. They did need to monetize templates, at the cost to their usefulness. In that case, the situation at Anet is really bad, and we
    can
    worry about the future.

I cant say I agree without proof to be honest with you.Where is the hard proof that they need the money more or less why try to make the most gain with a system that you are offering with a free base for all players?The system has been specifically designed to be monetized, so much that it negatively affected it's primary functionality. Why? I see only 2 answers, which i included in my previous post. If you see a different reason for crippling a highly desired QoL system's functionality, please, say so.

This is not factual information. These are 2 suggestive statements but not factual information.1: A new revenue stream is a given thing thats gonna happen in games that dont charge monthly fees. How ever this does not mean anet needs a "quick cash grab badly" and that the design of the system as a whole was purely based around this.2: For most people the systems design is not going to appear negatively impacted. You cant speak for everyone here and this is subjective making it not factual.

If they wanted easy money why not make ascended foods or ingredients directly purchasable from the gem store for cheap with the cooking 500 update?Well, they did make the level 500 cooking effectiveness heavily dependable on gemstore purchases, didn't they...

not from what I saw i could have missed it though.

There are just so many other better opportunities they could have used for "A cheap cash grab" if they were just out of the money which is why i dont agree with your statement.Okay, so, tell me why do
you
think they needed to monetize the template system so much it negatively impacted its usefulness.I'm waiting.For most people its not going to be negatively impacting. (you have to remember this fact)If a person does not use arc templates and only has a few builds they play its not going to appear negatively impacted from their perspective if anything the way the system is made will be fine and dandy. It will be better than what they have now which could be for a large number of people "nothing"

Once again we cant just assume the reasoning for the design is purely for money. It could be but this does not mean it is. We can agree to disagree here.

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I'm not an Anet apologist or anything remotely close, but I do want to call out entitlement when I see them.Anet, from the inception of ArcDPS or any other 3rd party add-ons, could've stopped them all from being used. They could, at anytime suddenly say it's a bannable offense to use any of them. They're in the gray area of programs after all. But they did not, and we were able to freely use these tools for years.

The free gravy is over. Deal with it.

I know that some of you are gonna say "waaah! but it's not good as the free one!"It's as good as it gets right now. It can be updated. Give it time. The free one we used was not as good as it's present and final iteration too, no?

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@Curennos.9307 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

I dont think so. Anet could have easily stoped arc and ban everyone who used it. To say it garbage because you dont like it isnt fair. anet was nice enough to give them a pass but lets not give them credit for that.

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@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:

@Curennos.9307 said:They could probably let people continue to use arcDPS and others would still buy extra slots. I hope they review their policy on addons soon. Trying to make players pay them for something another player does for free is a garbage business practice.

You do realize arc templates were free because it would be impossible for the creator of it to sell it right? If the creator of arc had sold that addon arenanet would have filed a lawsuit against him. You cannot make money off another companies product as it is illegal to do so. Hints why gold / leveling service selling is illegal in most games.

Its also garbage business practice to offer a free feature where there is a possibly to get some return on investment and allow a tool that gives players the same thing for free which will surely lower some of that return by a great deal.

If it were my job and i had the choice making money or pointing people to a place where they could get what my company sells for free i wouldnt have a job very long now would i? lol

Perhaps I should clarify the horrendously obvious.

It's a garbage business practice, from a consumer's point of view, for a company to take SO LONG to implement a feature that a player does it themselves, only for the company to later try to sell that same feature.

I dont think so. Anet could have easily stoped arc and ban everyone who used it. To say it garbage because you dont like it isnt fair. anet was nice enough to give them a pass but lets not give them credit for that.

My thoughts ^

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so it is easy see that we can forgot about gear swamping in arcdps ..ok, anyway we like it for dps check

Also I can easy predict that if 3 templates will be small count we will soon find new addon.How it can looks?Anyway it should be based on overlay system, to avoid any push from Anet? and don't be integrated in gw .dll files.So it will be some notes book, where you hand by hand click on each trait.

Also before panic we should know is 4th template after buying open template for each charter, or for once

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@"borgs.6103" said:I'm not an Anet apologist or anything remotely close, but I do want to call out entitlement when I see them.Anet, from the inception of ArcDPS or any other 3rd party add-ons, could've stopped them all from being used. They could, at anytime suddenly say it's a bannable offense to use any of them. They're in the gray area of programs after all. But they did not, and we were able to freely use these tools for years.

The free gravy is over. Deal with it.

I know that some of you are gonna say "waaah! but it's not good as the free one!"It's as good as it gets right now. It can be updated. Give it time. The free one we used was not as good as it's present and final iteration too, no?

"Right now"

Just like the glaring bugs that have been in WvW for years... K.

And why monetize a QoL update?

Why not monetize Living world episodes on release instead of giving them away because you login? That would surely generate more revenue then build templates...

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@C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:

@"borgs.6103" said:I'm not an Anet apologist or anything remotely close, but I do want to call out entitlement when I see them.Anet, from the inception of ArcDPS or any other 3rd party add-ons, could've stopped them all from being used. They could, at anytime suddenly say it's a bannable offense to use any of them. They're in the
gray area
of programs after all. But they did not, and we were able to freely use these tools
for years
.

The free gravy is over. Deal with it.

I know that some of you are gonna say
"waaah! but it's not good as the free one!"
It's as good as it gets
right now
. It can be updated. Give it time. The free one we used was not as good as it's present and final iteration too, no?

"Right now"

Just like the glaring bugs that have been in WvW for years... K.

And why monetize a QoL update?

Why not monetize Living world episodes on release instead of giving them away because you login? That would surely generate more revenue then build templates...

WvW is a lost cause. It's just band-aids after band-aids. Case in point: Ghost Dolyaks. Still an issue. After 7 years. Nothing to do with this new QoL patch though. Different teams and all that. It's a whole other issue. I've surrendered to the fact that their WvW team consists of one intern. Also, Alliances Coming Soon™

And why monetize a QoL update? Because the vocal players said so. I've seen so many posts on reddit and in here saying "Anet please give us build templates! We would gladly pay for it!" So Anet did.

Why not monetize LW episodes? They kinda do, if you fail to log-in when it was offered for free, as you have said. Also, that ship has already sailed. If they back-out from that model, the plethora of backlash would insurmountable. They made their bed and now they have no choice but to lie on it.

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@C Cspace Cowboy.5903 said:And why monetize a QoL update?

Why not monetize Living world episodes on release instead of giving them away because you login? That would surely generate more revenue then build templates...

Hold on ... There isn't anything you haven't got from Anet that you haven't paid for. The question here isn't why monetize it .... it's why NOT monetize it.

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@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@"MokahTGS.7850" said:Has Anet said that ARC Templates will not be usable after the patch or are people just making assumptions?

Yes. More specifically, the developer of arc templates had said that when he got permission to add build templates it was on the express condition that he would disable his build templates once ArenaNet added their own, official build templates.We're one step farther now.

changes
build templates will be disabled starting oct 15 2019

I'm even more pissed than before (and not at deltaconnected). Not only will we be getting trash templates two weeks from now, we'll have to go two weeks without any templates at all.

you call them trash, while others may call them 'actually working'.Fine, it may be trash. but have you considered the people that can't use ArcDPS for whatever reasons?In case you hadn't noticed, ArcDPS is a highly unstable addon that actually makes the game lag or crash.anything that works, is better than an unstable product, even if it has less functions

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@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@"MokahTGS.7850" said:Has Anet said that ARC Templates will not be usable after the patch or are people just making assumptions?

Yes. More specifically, the developer of arc templates had said that when he got permission to add build templates it was on the express condition that he would disable his build templates once ArenaNet added their own, official build templates.We're one step farther now.

changes
build templates will be disabled starting oct 15 2019

I'm even more pissed than before (and not at deltaconnected). Not only will we be getting trash templates two weeks from now, we'll have to go two weeks without any templates at all.

I noticed this today too. I don't know why he went to such round about ways the next update/ the changes comes with Arena.NET build template system would have screw ARC DPs template system anyway. I guess its a date they agreed on. In some way it is a lesson in never thrust in a closed 3th party software would Arc DPs and template system Open Source things would have turned out differently . I can imagine that some people cracking the shut-off at this moment but this will only help them only the next 2 weeks. Side Note: I only knew that it is definitely closed software a few weeks ago because I learned a some bits of performance optimization and wanted to test it but no code.

Result in 100 cm we need GG because I forgot to change some stuff like before I got it. I also go pissed because it came with no warning. At some point in the past I asked why they don't do something like they did now with the template system but during that time things were completely different.

A) Arc DPS wasn't accepted like today people wanted 'legal' alternatives.B) The number of build I use with a main char weren't that big. Today they are numerous but the really hard part is used it sometimes only to change one piece because the menu from the template system(ARC) was an easier access to the equip then open H and click through the menus and search the part in my inventory& equip.C) We have a year with a lot of aggressive monetization behind us as result the question comes up must they do that? it doesn't look good.

D) The game isn't in such a good state eg1) Pvp a lot of built with extreme burst dmg & condi spamming . I had e.g as enemy mirage, thief and tempest all as condi impossible to clear even as shout warrior those condis lead to dead in 2 sec or other time a deadeye who one shot me multiply time with my nearly 30k.

2) Wvw population inequality , no reason to hold target , karma out of this mode became nearly useless.

3) Fractals have a lot of extreme skips but Arena.NEt won't do anything about it not at least you skip a boss also the whole I reset my skills but keep everything and change my built or spam everything again is just wooooooh broken.

Arena.NET has made over the years a lot of odd choices I really have the feeling it starts to crash down on the game anyway I'm away in 2 days and will be for a week roughly.

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"MokahTGS.7850" said:Has Anet said that ARC Templates will not be usable after the patch or are people just making assumptions?

Yes. More specifically, the developer of arc templates had said that when he got permission to add build templates it was on the express condition that he would disable his build templates once ArenaNet added their own, official build templates.We're one step farther now.

changes
build templates will be disabled starting oct 15 2019

I'm even more pissed than before (and not at deltaconnected). Not only will we be getting trash templates two weeks from now, we'll have to go two weeks without any templates at all.

you call them trash, while others may call them 'actually working'.Fine, it may be trash. but have you considered the people that can't use ArcDPS for whatever reasons?In case you hadn't noticed, ArcDPS is a highly unstable addon that actually makes the game lag or crash.anything that works, is better than an unstable product, even if it has less functions

If they had created a product in which they were confident in that it was good, with Arc supposedly being so unstable too (for me personally, it crashed my game just 3 times in 2+ years, and those cases were because of outdated versions I failed to update), they wouldn't need to shut it down in order to sell their version. That would be good business. Make a product worth buying.

But considering what they showed their product to be, with how extremely limited it is to a crippling degree, I don't blame them for realising that they can't compete with a fanmade version, especially considering it's free and they are planning to triple charge for theirs to an insane degree.

@Lord of the Fire.6870 said:I noticed this today too. I don't know why he went to such round about ways the next update/ the changes comes with Arena.NET build template system would have screw ARC DPs template system anyway. I guess its a date they agreed on.

Well, to me at least it looks like Anet wants us to play without Templates for a while, so by the time they release theirs, they seem like a salvation from the sheer unplayble constant swapping by hand hardcore players will have to do in some content during that time, rather than a direct downgrade from Arc at a premium price right at launch day.

It's scummy, but smart.

It just feels so bad to see no new content like Fractal CM's since literally years, barely any normal Fractals, Raids, proper PvP balance and on and on, and then be charged a super premium just to keep playing the same old content we have been playing for years with similar convenience, just with still way more limitations, even after paying up.Just not feeling it at all.But again, if this was 400 Gems for 10 Template slot packs, or something a long those lines, fair enough. But not this triple monetisation of single slots, per character, as well as it being altogether way to limited, even if you can and do buy everything.

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@"Ayakaru.6583" said:you call them trash, while others may call them 'actually working'.Fine, it may be trash. but have you considered the people that can't use ArcDPS for whatever reasons?

That's not their point. Their point was an indirect plea: "Please, ANet, change your templates to work similarly to ArcDPS, because that's just one click for build and gear combos!" I second that plea.

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"MokahTGS.7850" said:Has Anet said that ARC Templates will not be usable after the patch or are people just making assumptions?

Yes. More specifically, the developer of arc templates had said that when he got permission to add build templates it was on the express condition that he would disable his build templates once ArenaNet added their own, official build templates.We're one step farther now.

changes
build templates will be disabled starting oct 15 2019

I'm even more pissed than before (and not at deltaconnected). Not only will we be getting trash templates two weeks from now, we'll have to go two weeks without any templates at all.

you call them trash, while others may call them 'actually working'.Fine, it may be trash. but have you considered the people that can't use ArcDPS for whatever reasons?In case you hadn't noticed, ArcDPS is a highly unstable addon that actually makes the game lag or crash.anything that works, is better than an unstable product, even if it has less functions

To say that it’s unstable is not understanding arc in itself. Gw2 is what makes people crash not arc. Out of the whole time i used arc iv only crashed 2 times because of arc. And that was because arc wasn’t updated since arenanet kept on updating the client every 2-3 hours.

To say that people can’t use it for whatsoever reason is most likely mac, or lunix. If you have a windows pc which is most likely the majority of gamers, you don’t have a problem to install it. However macs can still use Windows os in the mac and back door using arctemplates and be fine. I know people who have done that. So as far as “can’t” means ether the person doesn’t want to. Or just doesn’t care. Or they have a lunix.

Only platform that is most likely not work is lunix. Build templates is literally as easy as putting a mp3 song into your MP3 player, that’s how easy it is to install arc. To say that in 2k19 and people don’t know how to drag and drop a mp3 song into your MP3 player, you shouldn’t be playing games. Or should truly invest in learning how to operate a pc since now mostly things are operated electronically.

Truly the problem is Arenanet saying build templates are for dedicated players, and arenanet not targeting dedicated players as the people using them. Dedicated players aren’t players who don’t know how to install arc. Dedicated players aren’t players who just play open world. Dedicated players are people who play for years and raid, pvp, wvw. Not people who just do open world bosses. You don’t need build templates for open world content. Just press 1.

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@blambidy.3216 said:

Truly the problem is Arenanet saying build templates are for dedicated players, and arenanet not targeting dedicated players as the people using them. Dedicated players aren’t players who don’t know how to install arc. Dedicated players aren’t players who just play open world. Dedicated players are people who play for years and raid, pvp, wvw. Not people who just do open world bosses. You don’t need build templates for open world content. Just press 1.

That is a very shallow definition of a dedicated player.

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@blambidy.3216 said:

@"MokahTGS.7850" said:Has Anet said that ARC Templates will not be usable after the patch or are people just making assumptions?

Yes. More specifically, the developer of arc templates had said that when he got permission to add build templates it was on the express condition that he would disable his build templates once ArenaNet added their own, official build templates.We're one step farther now.

changes
build templates will be disabled starting oct 15 2019

I'm even more pissed than before (and not at deltaconnected). Not only will we be getting trash templates two weeks from now, we'll have to go two weeks without any templates at all.

you call them trash, while others may call them 'actually working'.Fine, it may be trash. but have you considered the people that can't use ArcDPS for whatever reasons?In case you hadn't noticed, ArcDPS is a highly unstable addon that actually makes the game lag or crash.anything that works, is better than an unstable product, even if it has less functions

To say that it’s unstable is not understanding arc in itself. Gw2 is what makes people crash not arc. Out of the whole time i used arc iv only crashed 2 times because of arc. And that was because arc wasn’t updated since arenanet kept on updating the client every 2-3 hours.

To say that people can’t use it for whatsoever reason is most likely mac, or lunix. If you have a windows pc which is most likely the majority of gamers, you don’t have a problem to install it. However macs can still use Windows os in the mac and back door using arctemplates and be fine. I know people who have done that. So as far as “can’t” means ether the person doesn’t want to. Or just doesn’t care. Or they have a lunix.

Only platform that is most likely not work is lunix. Build templates is literally as easy as putting a mp3 song into your MP3 player, that’s how easy it is to install arc. To say that in 2k19 and people don’t know how to drag and drop a mp3 song into your MP3 player, you shouldn’t be playing games. Or should truly invest in learning how to operate a pc since now mostly things are operated electronically.

Truly the problem is Arenanet saying build templates are for dedicated players, and arenanet not targeting dedicated players as the people using them. Dedicated players aren’t players who don’t know how to install arc. Dedicated players aren’t players who just play open world. Dedicated players are people who play for years and raid, pvp, wvw. Not people who just do open world bosses. You don’t need build templates for open world content. Just press 1.

My problem was, after installing it, it works on the first round. Immediately the next day you will experience crashes, the framerate may drop to around 1 randomly, and other funky stuff happens. This occurs independantly of updating ArcDPS, or the game itself having updates.That said, any attempt to update ArcDPS as described on the website itself, results in even funkier behavior, where the only way to update ArcDPS, is just to do a complete reinstall every single day.

I also use the mount wheel addon, meaning I needed a hook addon to allow 2 addons to run at the same time, which made ArcDPS even more buggy than it was when it was installed solo. Long story short, maintaining ArcDPS was so frustrating I decided to completely drop it, and just wait for something official. Even if it only has half the utility.

Only platform that is most likely not work is lunix. Build templates is literally as easy as putting a mp3 song into your MP3 player, that’s how easy it is to install arc. To say that in 2k19 and people don’t know how to drag and drop a mp3 song into your MP3 player, you shouldn’t be playing games. Or should truly invest in learning how to operate a pc since now mostly things are operated electronically.

Thats easy to say, and I'm pretty sure we both install it the same way.. since there is only one way to install it. And yet, it's not working as intended, as all. Meaning if I follow the instructions and it just doesn't work.. then who can I complain to? anet washes their hands clean of any addon

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As a raider community member I am still super excited about the new strike mission that totaly is like a bridge between PvE and Raids yet it's more like Open World champion that needs 2 decent raiders to easily kill. I mean who cares about the lack of content for Raids and zero support for community events, when you are giving us these amazing things.

And just when you think it cannot get any better, you remove Delta's templates from the game 2 weeks before your beta wannabe templates release that can store only half of my builds. I mean, giving low attention to the community is one thing, but removing the little things we made for ourselfs, just so the game can be somewhat enjoyable is a whole new level. In 7 years of me playing this game I was always praising what has been happening, but.................... I have no words for this.

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Regardless of whether or not I care, I would think that funneling all of the complaints about templates into fewer threads might attract the devs attention more than scatter shot threads all over the forum. I think that the complaints would be better served in this manner as the devs probably have a limited amount of spare time to comb through the forums.

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@Fir.7932 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:You couldn't complain in one of the many existing threads about this?

I respect that you don't care that much about the issue as alot of players don't, but for some of us this is one of the most important features in the game and doing anything to it has a huge quality of life impact, that needs to be adressed. I am sorry if the amount of threads is bothering you, but for alot of us, this is game changing, that's why some of us (such as myself) are really annoyed by this and want to be heard in a hope that our gaming experience won't go from satisfying to painful.

You are hurting your cause more with the passive-aggressive tone of your address and adding to the number of existing threads. Devs have said countless times that merged threads are easier to follow than dozens on the same subject which quickly get lost.

All you are doing is annoying the devs and the community not interested in this subject.

Ultimately I am unsure what you want addressed and your initial post doesn't clarify it beyond being snarky. The delta templates aren't returning. That isn't really up for negotiation since the agreement was always that they'd exist until official ones existed. Anet didn't pull them - the maker of it upheld their end of the agreement and did it. I am more sympathetic to the idea of improving the official ones and making them more flexible, but this is the wrong way o attract the devs attention and there are threads to add the thoughts to already. It may seem like a voice will get lost in the masses, but it actually doesn't work that way.

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