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rifle vs pistol


weaponwh.9810

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Rifle has a few advantages over pistol:

  • Range
  • Variety of boons
  • Stealth access
  • Projectile denial
  • Movement
  • Better synergy with traits (stealth on dodge)

Pistol/Pistol has:

  • Interrupts
  • Better might generation (but may be redundant if running M7)

If you are running Hybrid then Pistol/Dagger beats rifle. But that involves a different playstyle and build design so....Rifle is probably better for you in a power rifle vs power pistols comparison.

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@saerni.2584 said:Rifle has a few advantages over pistol:

  • Range
  • Variety of boons
  • Stealth access
  • Projectile denial
  • Movement
  • Better synergy with traits (stealth on dodge)

Pistol/Pistol has:

  • Interrupts
  • Better might generation (but may be redundant if running M7)

If you are running Hybrid then Pistol/Dagger beats rifle. But that involves a different playstyle and build design so....Rifle is probably better for you in a power rifle vs power pistols comparison.

P/P has a projectile denial in a form of combo finish projectile that applies blind. Not very reliable, but it exists.

Both weapon set has no access to stealth, so that's not really an advantage of the Rifle. If we're talking about DE Rifle vs DE P/P, then P/P also have access to stealth. In fact, even Core P/P has access to stealth if SA is taken and DD P/P has access to stealth if Bound is taken.

So it really comes down to mobility that P/P is lacking which is needed the most at 900 range. Rifle have shadowstep and infinite Swiftness at 1200 range. This is why P/P is not a valid choice since you'll be purposely limiting your options.

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P/P is ok as a supplementary as long as you do not stay in it too long. Generally if you have a ranged/melee mix in weapon sets if Rifle your ranged choice you can spent 50+ percent of your time in Rifle.

If P/P your ranged choices you likely not in it more then 20 percent. P/P can be very good at what it does mainly building might which can work condi or power and a quick finish to an opponent but it very niche and situational.

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@weaponwh.9810 said:thanks, since i'm new at thief, is p/p has better dmg/mulch down mobs faster compare to rilfe? hows D/D or staff or other weapon for open world build compare to p/p or rifle in term of dps.

For open world PvE, you're better off with the staff + P/P since you can use the staff for AoE and P/P for single target. Rifle is cumbersome in open world PvE since the mobs comes in number and Rifle is mostly single target. Also marking every single mob when one dies is a big PITA. I wish Collateral Damage will automatically randomly mark one of the mobs hit by it.

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@babazhook.6805 said:If P/P your ranged choices you likely not in it more then 20 percent. P/P can be very good at what it does mainly building might which can work condi or power and a quick finish to an opponent but it very niche and situational.Niche, pff.

My most fun and effective open world PvEr remain an almost full berserker deadeye with p/p/rifle and I stay in p/p 90% of the time - sometimes 100% because I forget I have the rifle. The speed at which one can down single targets with constant quickness pretty much make up for having no AoE, lol. It's not just about static dps, you got almost instant reaction time against new targets. Once you get the ball rolling and stack up buffs most mobs go down in a single unload... and you got like 5 before you need a quick breather. Then of course if you do get swarmed you can always spin for the win and kill most, if not all mobs around you.

Well at least it's a good build for people that only need to remember 1 skill.

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:If P/P your ranged choices you likely not in it more then 20 percent. P/P can be very good at what it does mainly building might which can work condi or power and a quick finish to an opponent but it very niche and situational.Niche, pff.

My most fun and effective open world PvEr remain an almost full berserker deadeye with p/p/rifle and I stay in p/p 90% of the time - sometimes 100% because I forget I have the rifle. The speed at which one can down single targets with constant quickness pretty much make up for having no AoE, lol. It's not just about static dps, you got almost instant reaction time against new targets. Once you get the ball rolling and stack up buffs most mobs go down in a single unload... and you got like 5 before you need a quick breather. Then of course if you do get swarmed you can always spin for the win and kill most, if not all mobs around you.

Well at least it's a good build for people that only need to remember 1 skill.

I missed the part where he mentioned open world. I was referring to WvW. Open world anything can be made to work.

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@saerni.2584 said:Rifle has a few advantages over pistol:

  • Range
  • Variety of boons
  • Stealth access
  • Projectile denial
  • Movement
  • Better synergy with traits (stealth on dodge)

Pistol/Pistol has:

  • Interrupts
  • Better might generation (but may be redundant if running M7)

If you are running Hybrid then Pistol/Dagger beats rifle. But that involves a different playstyle and build design so....Rifle is probably better for you in a power rifle vs power pistols comparison.

p/p also has better dps. but its paper dps. due to relying on more shots + time to apply. its like comparing someone being hit by a rocket going down the road(rifle). vs a train where you hear it a few miles out(p/p)

that said, if your going healign signit, p/p helps alot.

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@saerni.2584 said:Rifle has a few advantages over pistol:

  • Range
  • Variety of boons
  • Stealth access
  • Projectile denial
  • Movement
  • Better synergy with traits (stealth on dodge)

Pistol/Pistol has:

  • Interrupts
  • Better might generation (but may be redundant if running M7)

If you are running Hybrid then Pistol/Dagger beats rifle. But that involves a different playstyle and build design so....Rifle is probably better for you in a power rifle vs power pistols comparison.

P/P also has way better synergy with Invigorating Precision, one of the best traits Thieves have access to.I'm not sure why everyone is dissing P/P here. The only thing bad about it is it has no built in multitarget at all, but it's a very viable set. It's arguably more generally usable in PvE than Rifle is with the latter being a lot more situational.

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@Einlanzer.1627 said:

@saerni.2584 said:Rifle has a few advantages over pistol:
  • Range
  • Variety of boons
  • Stealth access
  • Projectile denial
  • Movement
  • Better synergy with traits (stealth on dodge)

Pistol/Pistol has:
  • Interrupts
  • Better might generation (but may be redundant if running M7)

If you are running Hybrid then Pistol/Dagger beats rifle. But that involves a different playstyle and build design so....Rifle is probably better for you in a power rifle vs power pistols comparison.

P/P also has way better synergy with Invigorating Precision, one of the best traits Thieves have access to.I'm not sure why everyone is dissing P/P here. The only thing bad about it is it has no built in multitarget at all, but it's a very viable set. It's arguably more generally usable in PvE than Rifle is with the latter being a lot more situational.

The difference, as previously mentioned, is mobility. If you're fine with P/P while sluggish, then that's fine if you like that. However, Rifle is objectively way better due to its single target power, better range, and access to mobility in comparison to P/P.

P/P needs a lot of work and ArenaNet promised long time ago that they are working on it, but that was like, what? 2-3 years ago?

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@Einlanzer.1627 said:I'm not sure why everyone is dissing P/P here.

Well performance wise it is nothing but an inferior rifle. Rifle has:

  • more range
  • better mobility
  • better CC
  • more damage (both DPS & burst)
  • better sustainability
  • better access to and synergy with stealth
  • an AoE (weapon skill)
  • doesn't draw as much attention to its user (especially if you're using the Pop Gun Skin)

The only thing P/P has going for it is that it has better QoL for OW farming but that's about it....

@Einlanzer.1627 said:The only thing bad about it is it has no built in multitarget at all, but it's a very viable set.

The only thing bad about it (if we're ignoring that it's completely overshadowed by rifle) is that P/P as a weapon set is completely dysfunctional. Most weapon skills either have no synergy with each other, are "eating" each other or are redundant. The reason why it's even playable is because thief has various traits which have good synergy with unload.

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For Open World, I find P/P to be vastly superior as you can kill target faster and with fewer initiatives spent, which in turns allows to reset/re-mark to full or almost full initiatives every new target. That's a big deal.Unload cost 5, but:

  • If all hits land you regain 2
  • While shooting you regain 1
  • If you mark with Trickery, you gain 2 more
  • if you use the appropriate signet (which I don't usually, it gives 1 Ini on kill when traits).
  • you can P/P and P/P and use the trait for 3 Ini on swap.

That plus the shadow burst on kill, allows in trashmob situation to clean everything very quickly.

Quickness on mark allows unload to be much more decent, or sometimes I just use Bola+2-3AA, enough to kill trash.

Using Runes of fireworks gives +25% movement speed, perma-swiftness and vigor comes in too, with the rune, allowing very good sustain/mobility.If you use invigorating precision, you can take withdraw as a heal, and that adds for mobility, and roll for initiatives if you want stun break and go crazy with more initiatives.

Since getting used to it, I never ended up in a melee situation, and the fluidity is far superior to rifle while running open world, including champions.

For everything else, rifle is a safer/more stylist/flexible pick (raids, fractals, etc.)

But I'd say that P/P with diviner set and, fireworks runes, plus trickery already give perma swiftness, 25 might, vigor, fury, and perma quickness... Soooo I don't know about the "boon advantage" of rifle to be honest. Flipping between targets happens faster with pistols than rifle.

You kill so fast that you can have perma Thief Guild as long as you fight trash, which is really strong in a solo mode or story mission.

Being more of a one-trick pony, you improve a lot in term of positioning, dodging, re-targeting, learning enemy mechanism. :-)

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@weaponwh.9810 said:is there build video on rifle? I find my self use p/p all the time. rifle is good for single regular mob, but when hoards of mob or boss come at me, I find my self switching to unload. not sure i'm playing rifle right.

Why switch to unload instead of dagger/dagger or shortbow or something that handles crowds? I usually Kneel behind Snipers Cover to roll over if I'm getting blasted or Death's Retreat off of someone if they close distance landing poison and gaining stealth for a quick DJ. Collateral Damage should thin out the crowd as you knock out your kill order or you can have something other than Unload on weapon switch for that kind of thing.

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@kash.9213 said:

@weaponwh.9810 said:is there build video on rifle? I find my self use p/p all the time. rifle is good for single regular mob, but when hoards of mob or boss come at me, I find my self switching to unload. not sure i'm playing rifle right.

Why switch to unload instead of dagger/dagger or shortbow or something that handles crowds? I usually Kneel behind Snipers Cover to roll over if I'm getting blasted or Death's Retreat off of someone if they close distance landing poison and gaining stealth for a quick DJ. Collateral Damage should thin out the crowd as you knock out your kill order or you can have something other than Unload on weapon switch for that kind of thing.

I haven't try too much dagger, cause I find unload kill regular mob 3-5 really quick no need for AoE. hows dps for D/D?

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@"Trianox.3486" said:For Open World, I find P/P to be vastly superior as you can kill target faster and with fewer initiatives spent, which in turns allows to reset/re-mark to full or almost full initiatives every new target. That's a big deal.Unload cost 5, but:

  • If all hits land you regain 2
  • While shooting you regain 1
  • If you mark with Trickery, you gain 2 more
  • if you use the appropriate signet (which I don't usually, it gives 1 Ini on kill when traits).
  • you can P/P and P/P and use the trait for 3 Ini on swap.

P/P damage output has to ramp up in order to get to the same damage level of Rifle. If you compare the damage between Unload and Double Tap, you get better result with Double Tap for a cheaper cost since Rifle didn't need to ramp up. Sure, P/P grants Initiative refunds when all shot hits, but you'll have to spend at least 10 initiatives to get to the same level of damage as one Double Tap. If you kneel, 3RB is even a better source of damage for a cheap cost.

That plus the shadow burst on kill, allows in trashmob situation to clean everything very quickly.

Rifle will have access to the same trait.

Quickness on mark allows unload to be much more decent, or sometimes I just use Bola+2-3AA, enough to kill trash.

Erm...that's a waste of Initiatives. Not sure if you're serious with your claim.

Using Runes of fireworks gives +25% movement speed, perma-swiftness and vigor comes in too, with the rune, allowing very good sustain/mobility.

Rifle has a built-in infinite Swiftness, which frees up Rune slot for more damage. Fireworks rune doesn't grant "perma-swiftness".

If you use invigorating precision, you can take withdraw as a heal, and that adds for mobility, and roll for initiatives if you want stun break and go crazy with more initiatives.

Rifle has access to the same things. These are not exclusive to P/P.

Since getting used to it, I never ended up in a melee situation, and the fluidity is far superior to rifle while running open world, including champions.

The fact that you have to use a movement speed Rune shows that your damage is lacking. You'll be kiting that champion longer than someone using a Rifle.

For everything else, rifle is a safer/more stylist/flexible pick (raids, fractals, etc.)

But I'd say that P/P with diviner set and, fireworks runes, plus trickery already give perma swiftness, 25 might, vigor, fury, and perma quickness... Soooo I don't know about the "boon advantage" of rifle to be honest. Flipping between targets happens faster with pistols than rifle.

Full Diviner set means you have base vitality and toughness. Without access to Protection, you're relying too much on dodge, which is very limited when using Deadeye. Ad P/P, you are susceptible to damage which makes this build dubious in terms of survivability.

This build will only work if you are using Daredevil, which will extend the Swiftness from Dash to 20s, which is the only thing that is close to "perma-swiftness", not to mention you have access to 3 dodges and tons of endurance.

Thus, I don't see the advantage of P/P in this regards. Rifle can go full Berserker due to its range and mobility advantage.

You kill so fast that you can have perma Thief Guild as long as you fight trash, which is really strong in a solo mode or story mission.

Being more of a one-trick pony, you improve a lot in term of positioning, dodging, re-targeting, learning enemy mechanism. :-)

This P/P build only looks good on paper.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@"Trianox.3486" said:For Open World, I find P/P to be vastly superior as you can kill target faster and with fewer initiatives spent, which in turns allows to reset/re-mark to full or almost full initiatives every new target. That's a big deal.Unload cost 5, but:
  • If all hits land you regain 2
  • While shooting you regain 1
  • If you mark with Trickery, you gain 2 more
  • if you use the appropriate signet (which I don't usually, it gives 1 Ini on kill when traits).
  • you can P/P and P/P and use the trait for 3 Ini on swap.

P/P damage output has to ramp up in order to get to the same damage level of Rifle. If you compare the damage between Unload and Double Tap, you get better result with Double Tap for a cheaper cost since Rifle didn't need to ramp up. Sure, P/P grants Initiative refunds when all shot hits, but you'll have to spend at least 10 initiatives to get to the same level of damage as one Double Tap. If you kneel, 3RB is even a better source of damage for a cheap cost.

That plus the shadow burst on kill, allows in trashmob situation to clean everything very quickly.

Rifle will have access to the same trait.

Yes, but somehow it preforms better with P/P in kill-chaining.And in terms of ramp up... not sure what you're talking about... doing double-tap twice or unload twice... is usually enough to down most trash... ramping up is not an issue really... especially with long boon duration. It's a comfy playstyle really. =)

Quickness on mark allows unload to be much more decent, or sometimes I just use Bola+2-3AA, enough to kill trash.

Erm...that's a waste of Initiatives. Not sure if you're serious with your claim.

Due to quickness (and you could do the same with rifle), AA is often enough to deal in 1-2 secondes with weaker trash mobs. You'll get a feeling about it, but there is some mobs that 2 unloads is overkill, but 1 bola and 1 unload is just perfect. And with quickness, it's a tiny bit faster.I usually just adjust for the fastest dmg source without overkilling the prey.

Using Runes of fireworks gives +25% movement speed, perma-swiftness and vigor comes in too, with the rune, allowing very good sustain/mobility.

Rifle has a built-in infinite Swiftness, which frees up Rune slot for more damage. Fireworks rune doesn't grant "perma-swiftness".

If you use invigorating precision, you can take withdraw as a heal, and that adds for mobility, and roll for initiatives if you want stun break and go crazy with more initiatives.

Rifle has access to the same things. These are not exclusive to P/P.

Since getting used to it, I never ended up in a melee situation, and the fluidity is far superior to rifle while running open world, including champions.

The fact that you have to use a movement speed Rune shows that your damage is lacking. You'll be kiting that champion longer than someone using a Rifle.

I tested, and you are right, it takes a little longer, but barely more actually. It does not make a substantial difference, but P/P shines much more on lot of trash targets. Especially if you toggle auto-targeting (which I dislike in every other build circumstances).

For everything else, rifle is a safer/more stylist/flexible pick (raids, fractals, etc.)

But I'd say that P/P with diviner set and, fireworks runes, plus trickery already give perma swiftness, 25 might, vigor, fury, and perma quickness... Soooo I don't know about the "boon advantage" of rifle to be honest. Flipping between targets happens faster with pistols than rifle.

Full Diviner set means you have base vitality and toughness. Without access to Protection, you're relying too much on dodge, which is very limited when using Deadeye. Ad P/P, you are susceptible to damage which makes this build dubious in terms of survivability.

This build will only work if you are using Daredevil, which will extend the Swiftness from Dash to 20s, which is the only thing that is close to "perma-swiftness", not to mention you have access to 3 dodges and tons of endurance.

Thus, I don't see the advantage of P/P in this regards. Rifle can go full Berserker due to its range and mobility advantage.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said full diviner, but I didn't either dive into the full gear description.I use diviner armors, and weapons and trinkets are on marauder. =)

I rarely have to dodge, unless trying to avoid large AoE, but in any case, vigor is there permanently, so it's not as bad as it seems.For sustain/survivability, I'd just suggest that you test it. Heck, you can even facetank some of the mobs, but nothing that would hit too strong tho.

No, the build works on DE, and perma-swiftness is achieved through using Mark... and since you remark quite often, you stack quite large amount of swiftness. In 2h of openworld, I never run out of swiftness, unless I'm doing some puzzlejumping or mount riding around.

To be honest, I prefer Daredevil playstyle way more than DE P/P-P/P, but while ranging with DE P/P, I never found myself out of dodge when I needed one. Maybe that's jus t because I'm used to it? Maybe you just didn't give a full trial of that build on your own? Dunno! =)

The diviner armor set + firework boon duration is to keep perma-swiftness and all other thief-available boons at hand permantly. You could do the very same with Rifle, but it seems, for un-explained reasons, to be somewhat easier/more effective in the P/P build. P/P is just faster.

You kill so fast that you can have perma Thief Guild as long as you fight trash, which is really strong in a solo mode or story mission.

Being more of a one-trick pony, you improve a lot in term of positioning, dodging, re-targeting, learning enemy mechanism. :-)

This P/P build only looks good on paper.

Not on paper, no. It's one of the faster-speed clear build on thief. Maybe I'm doing it wrong on rifle, but I'm always a bit ahead of my own timer when using P/P compared to my rifle benchmark, same build (aside from weapon swap).It's not only paper... don't be so quick to dismiss please. =)Here is a decent video from WoodenPotatoes:

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@"Trianox.3486" said:

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said full diviner, but I didn't either dive into the full gear description.I use diviner armors, and weapons and trinkets are on marauder. =)

You implied a full diviner since you didn't say "diviner/marauder". That's your fault, not mine. :)

I rarely have to dodge, unless trying to avoid large AoE, but in any case, vigor is there permanently, so it's not as bad as it seems.For sustain/survivability, I'd just suggest that you test it. Heck, you can even facetank some of the mobs, but nothing that would hit too strong tho.

No, the build works on DE, and perma-swiftness is achieved through using Mark... and since you remark quite often, you stack quite large amount of swiftness. In 2h of openworld, I never run out of swiftness, unless I'm doing some puzzlejumping or mount riding around.

Ok, I'm curious because something doesn't seems to add up. It might just be me, but I want to see what you have. Can you post your build?

To be honest, I prefer Daredevil playstyle way more than DE P/P-P/P, but while ranging with DE P/P, I never found myself out of dodge when I needed one. Maybe that's jus t because I'm used to it? Maybe you just didn't give a full trial of that build on your own? Dunno! =)

I agree. I use Staff + P/P myself. I find DE P/P a pain since mobs dies to fast and marking a new target is a real burden.

The diviner armor set + firework boon duration is to keep perma-swiftness and all other thief-available boons at hand permantly. You could do the very same with Rifle, but it seems, for un-explained reasons, to be somewhat easier/more effective in the P/P build. P/P is just faster.

Yeah, you got my interest pique. Please post your build.

Not on paper, no. It's one of the faster-speed clear build on thief. Maybe I'm doing it wrong on rifle, but I'm always a bit ahead of my own timer when using P/P compared to my rifle benchmark, same build (aside from weapon swap).It's not only paper... don't be so quick to dismiss please. =)Here is a decent video from WoodenPotatoes:

I was under the impression that you have full diviner and we have established that was your fault. :)

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Hi Sir Vincent III (and everyone else).

Ok, I'm curious because something doesn't seems to add up. It might just be me, but I want to see what you have. Can you post your build?

See below for build and additional comments. It might provide what seems to be missing. But I invite you to test it as well and see how it performs with that set up. There are certain builds, as you know, where numbers are a bit deceiving due to how we rotate, or how certain skills behave or how you chain them, or based on types of encounters. But you know that. =)

To be honest, I prefer Daredevil playstyle way more than DE P/P-P/P, but while ranging with DE P/P, I never found myself out of dodge when I needed one. Maybe that's jus t because I'm used to it? Maybe you just didn't give a full trial of that build on your own? Dunno! =)

I agree. I use Staff + P/P myself. I find DE P/P a pain since mobs dies to fast and marking a new target is a real burden.

Yeaaah, same. To ease gameplay on DE, I put autotarget on, "tab" for switching target/closest, and a mouse button for mark.

Yeah, you got my interest pique. Please post your build.Yes yes! See below =)

I was under the impression that you have full diviner and we have established that was your fault. :)

Yeah, I acknowkledged that too in saying that I didn't dive into the full gear description.Here is what I currently use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaEBoqprlNw6YQMM2IW+XbPVA-zRZYBRFIGpb4wOl2kARoqqQIkuAVxzywjbA-e

Few things to note: #1) For utility, I alternate between:

  • -- Roll for Initiatives: 6 initiatives and stunbreak, condi cleanse
  • -- Mercy: to reset mark and regain initiatives for champions.
  • -- Binding shadowns: 3 sec knockdown + 2 sec immob + 15 vulnerability = great against champions breakbar and such.
  • -- Haste: For stunbreak, quickness and more fury, for areas with fewer trashmobs but more high HP foes, for when Mark's quickness is off.--- Scorpion wire: I know, I know, noobish, but it works well where there is a lot of breakbars to deal with in a short amount of time.But I tend to always keep:
  • Assassin Signet for the 180 power + 540 bonus power when active (to down veteran within 2 unloads)

#2) For traits, there is a few switch I do based on content:

  • Invigorating Precision when I need the sustain, but I use Withdraw as a heal skill- OR-
  • No Quarter for more damage (+250 ferocity when Fury is on) when sustain isn't an issue and when I want to increase dmg, but I'll use Signet of Malice for healing skills.Also
  • I tend to keep Trickster, but I'll sometimes have Bountiful thieft for the "rare" areas where monsters spawn boons (Istan, as an example).Finally
  • WoodenPotatoes recommends Malicious intend, but I only pick it for longer boss fight, else I stay all the time on Collateral damages for AoE. Makes life easier I find.

#3) Sigils

  • The build link will show what I am current using, BUT I'm testing out the difference between +7% precision, +5% dmg, +10% boon (seemed unnecessary so far), +lighting strike or flamestrike (mini AoE is nice in combination with Collateral dmg)... and to be honest, I'm not fully settled on it. But so far, Sigil of Force seems better than lighting or flame because the volume of hits per secondes output more dmg than having to wait the ICD of flame or lighting.

#4) Marking and boon management

  • As soon as you mark, you entered the fight with Fury (15 sec), 3 Might (15 sec), Swiftness (15 sec), Quickness (6 sec).
  • Quickness provides 200 power + 200 precision due to DE 2nd line GM.
  • AND Firework gives 6 Might, Fury, and Vigor when entering combat

Therefore, Before you even hit your opponent, your crit chance is then up to 96% (with CS traits, it's 100%), and 9 might, you benefit of the 20% heal on dmg due to fury, Quickness makes unload a breeeeeeze while providing that nice +200 power too.

  • One Unload will provide 8 might (12 sec), so one second later you're already at 17, and within 2.5-3 sec after marking your first target, you're already at 25 might. But usually tash foes would die before the end of the 2nd unload. There is enough might generation (Firework, Mark, Unload with long enough duration) that you never have to worry about it, same for Fury.
  • Autotargeting is therefore useful to ensure all hits land on other foes and that you do not waste too much bullets, else you don't gain your the 2 initiatives back from Unload.
  • There is mini-down time here and there for Quickness if I don't pay too much attention. But in Trashfight, Quickness is just premanent. Hence why I pick "haste" sometimes.In tashmob fight, you keep permanently all those boons, with their associated bonus

#5) PaybackPayback is such a strong trait for this build, every 4-5 foes you kill, all your CD are reset, regardless of their lenght. For Withdraw at 14.5 sec CD with Trickster traited, you hit, Withdraw, kill you foes, save 20% CD, nd by the time you kill your 2nd or 3rd mob, it's already reset. Haste and Roll for initiatives behave the same, just like Thieves Guild.This makes the build extremely potent in Trashfight. Champion is different, and you'll have 2-3 sec of Quickness downtime if you don't pay close attention. It reduces your dmg output, but it's not that bad either.WoodenPotatoes goes full zerker in his video or might mix in some Diviner. Personnally, I prefer Marauder for the tiny bit more HP and to ensure I remain at 100% critical hit chance at all time. I found that around 50% boon duration, was, for me, very comfortable to play with and gave me the feeling of more sustain and damage (give the Quickness bonus of BQoBK, and Invigorating Precision healing, etc.).There is a lot of benefit of having longer Quickness uptime too, faster unload, faster everything! It makes gameplay just easier in many aspects.Beyond 50% it seems to reduce dmg output, and not be as worthwhile.

As per my previous posts, I'll still argue that this build is for OpenWorld mostly, I would take a different route for Raids and such of course. I tried and no, it really under-performed compared to other set up.

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for P/P although I like the single target DPS, but for trash mobs, what trait/skill that has synergy for AOE dmg?alsoMalicious Intent - Marking a target or striking your mark with a stealth attack will immediately grant malice. for DE whats consider stealth attack does Mark count? seem there is a lot skill/trait synergize with steal attack, but what skill I need to use in order to count as stealth attack.

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This is an interesting build. Similar to my Harrier/valk build without the high precision, but healing power instead. Note my build are mostly Exotics, thus the lower numbers. It seems unnecessary to make Ascended for PvE content.

Here's my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAoqZlNw6YLMMGJW2XrNTA-zRhYDJZI4zkCQVxQMsBNcGRIFSXF4wB-e

If you look at the CD of Swipe compare to the duration of Swiftness, that's a perma-swiftness without having to mark every time your target dies.

I used to ran a similar build as yours, but I got sick and tired of marking trash mobs. So I went back to DD.

Few things to note: #1) For utility, I alternate between:

  • -- Roll for Initiatives: 6 initiatives and stunbreak, condi cleanse
  • -- Mercy: to reset mark and regain initiatives for champions.
  • -- Binding shadowns: 3 sec knockdown + 2 sec immob + 15 vulnerability = great against champions breakbar and such.
  • -- Haste: For stunbreak, quickness and more fury, for areas with fewer trashmobs but more high HP foes, for when Mark's quickness is off.

Standard utility swapping.

--- Scorpion wire: I know, I know, noobish, but it works well where there is a lot of breakbars to deal with in a short amount of time.

I'm a Scorp Wire believer, but I rarely use it in PvE. I only use it when there are lots of conditions - cheap low CD condition cleanse.

But I tend to always keep:

  • Assassin Signet for the 180 power + 540 bonus power when active (to down veteran within 2 unloads)

This is a staple in my build also.

#2) For traits, there is a few switch I do based on content:

  • Invigorating Precision when I need the sustain, but I use Withdraw as a heal skill- OR-
  • No Quarter for more damage (+250 ferocity when Fury is on) when sustain isn't an issue and when I want to increase dmg, but I'll use Signet of Malice for healing skills.Also
  • I tend to keep Trickster, but I'll sometimes have Bountiful thieft for the "rare" areas where monsters spawn boons (Istan, as an example).

It's funny that I'm doing the exact thing. I sometimes even drop CS for Acro to give me more survivability and rely solely on raw damage (low crits) to maintain DPS. Dead Thief deals no damage after all.

Finally

  • WoodenPotatoes recommends Malicious intend, but I only pick it for longer boss fight, else I stay all the time on Collateral damages for AoE. Makes life easier I find.

#3) Sigils

  • The build link will show what I am current using, BUT I'm testing out the difference between +7% precision, +5% dmg, +10% boon (seemed unnecessary so far), +lighting strike or flamestrike (mini AoE is nice in combination with Collateral dmg)... and to be honest, I'm not fully settled on it. But so far, Sigil of Force seems better than lighting or flame because the volume of hits per secondes output more dmg than having to wait the ICD of flame or lighting.

Definitely take 10% boon duration. It makes it easier to manage initiatives. If things are dying from Autos and Bolas, keeping those might stacks longer, the better for your initiatives.

#4) Marking and boon management

  • As soon as you mark, you entered the fight with Fury (15 sec), 3 Might (15 sec), Swiftness (15 sec), Quickness (6 sec).
  • Quickness provides 200 power + 200 precision due to DE 2nd line GM.
  • AND Firework gives 6 Might, Fury, and Vigor when entering combat

Therefore, Before you even hit your opponent, your crit chance is then up to 96% (with CS traits, it's 100%), and 9 might, you benefit of the 20% heal on dmg due to fury, Quickness makes unload a breeeeeeze while providing that nice +200 power too.

  • One Unload will provide 8 might (12 sec), so one second later you're already at 17, and within 2.5-3 sec after marking your first target, you're already at 25 might. But usually tash foes would die before the end of the 2nd unload. There is enough might generation (Firework, Mark, Unload with long enough duration) that you never have to worry about it, same for Fury.
  • Autotargeting is therefore useful to ensure all hits land on other foes and that you do not waste too much bullets, else you don't gain your the 2 initiatives back from Unload.
  • There is mini-down time here and there for Quickness if I don't pay too much attention. But in Trashfight, Quickness is just premanent. Hence why I pick "haste" sometimes.In tashmob fight, you keep permanently all those boons, with their associated bonus

Yes all those make sense. What didn't add up to me is your claim of Vigor being permanent. I don't see from your build where that would be possible.Here's what you said;

I rarely have to dodge, unless trying to avoid large AoE, but in any case, vigor is there permanently, so it's not as bad as it seems.

I was genuinely curious on how did you pull this off in DE. In my build (see above), when I switch my CS for Acro for survivability, that's the only time I can manage to get perma-Vigor (vigorous recovery + trickster).

As per my previous posts, I'll still argue that this build is for OpenWorld mostly, I would take a different route for Raids and such of course. I tried and no, it really under-performed compared to other set up.

That is clear to me from the beginning.

So back to your build, how do you manage to get perma-Vigor? Your only source of Vigor is your rune and it only last 9s on a 20s ICD.

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Thanks for all the comments/replies! It makes it an interesting discussion.

AAaaaaaah, for the vigor part: Yeah, the rune only provides 9 sec out of a 20 sec ICD, as you pointed out. But Given "Payback", I find I don't need Trickster as much to lower tricks' cooldowns, so I'll keep withdraw but won't have the extra cleanse, and therefore, I use bountiful thief (15 sec duration every mark). To be honest, I rarely have to dodge, so I tend to just remain on Trickster... and skip on vigor, but if I see there is an issue, I switch around and vigor stays in...That would be for areas where enemies rush too fast in melee.Same for Istan, as mentionned above. =)

In boss fights, there are certain condi that are just really annoying, so I'll pick trickster, but IF and only IF this is a "dangerous boss", I'll swap BQoBK for Maleficent Seven. That will mean I get lower dmg per hit, but I gain vigor and protection, regen, etc, and coupled with Mercy... it's just a ton more of initiatives, so it somewhat compensate the loss of Quickness + BQoBK's bonuses.

So basically, it's situational. When I find I need that extra safety, Bountiful it is, especially on tashmob. Payback resets cooldown very quickly, and condi cleanse isn't much an issue usually. Boss, Maleficent, and I keep Trickster as Payback won't be as effective and as cleanses might be needed more often.

Yeah: I do hear you on the "marking is annoying". =/

Interesting build you got there. Huum, seems fun to play!What is the thinking behind healing power? It does not seem to make "that much" of a difference on Withdraw, is it for Escapist Fortitude?

lol, yeah, dead thief = no dps.

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@weaponwh.9810 said:for P/P although I like the single target DPS, but for trash mobs, what trait/skill that has synergy for AOE dmg?alsoMalicious Intent - Marking a target or striking your mark with a stealth attack will immediately grant malice. for DE whats consider stealth attack does Mark count? seem there is a lot skill/trait synergize with steal attack, but what skill I need to use in order to count as stealth attack.

Stealth Attack is the skill your first weapon skill swaps to while in stealth (Backstab, Death’s Judgment, Sneak Attack, etc).

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