[merged] Equipment templates offer less for those that have invested into the game more - Legendary

[MokahTGS.7850]

Why is this another thread...template threads need to be merged...

[Lucinellia.9247]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:I mean really how many stat combinations do you really need. And if your a hardcore raider/fractaler chances are you have plenty of gear. I know i barely play those modes and i have 2 sets of ascended on 13 toons that i didnt spend a dime on. I have 3 with legendary. If you guys had it your way i would never ever need to make gear EVER again. My extra character slots was a complete waste of money and i would demand a refund because all you would really need is 9. Mats would crash because there is no need to make anything once you acquired 1 of it. People would probably play less. I would because now there really isnt any type of end game. The new endgame will be save up to buy a chak egg sac, nah im good. Its a good design. Arc was made and updated by people for the people for fun and are probably tired of updating it for nothing. Be happy that anet didnt shut that down immediately when made and ban everyone who used it. They are well within thier rights to have done so.

I don't quite follow, sorry. Could you please explain the point you are trying to make here?

If you guys had it your way i would never ever need to make gear EVER again

That is the idea behind legendary equipment... It was a higher cost in order to replace multiple ascended items.

My extra character slots was a complete waste of money and i would demand a refund because all you would really need is 9

What has this got to do with anything? Again, I would appreciate if you could explain your point somewhat more clearly.

Mats would crash because there is no need to make anything once you acquired 1 of it. People would probably play less. I would because now there really isnt any type of end game.

Can you please explain how you came to this conclusion? You seem to be inferring that the only endgame content is achieving multiple sets of gear yet we have PvP which doesn't use those ascended and legendary items at all and simply acquiring gear doesn't progress your achievements in maps, complete raids for you or get you through CMs. Guild Wars 2 has always been something of a gear agnostic game because we've had no vertical stat progression since Ascended items were introduced.

I apologise for possibly not getting the point you are getting at but your remarks aren't overly clear sorry.

They are well within thier rights to have done so.

My original post is not disputing this. While I would prefer optional monetisation through a new cosmetic feature (player housing for example), I am happy to purchase templates. However, I'd like to get (almost) as much use out of them as someone that didn't buy into Arenanet's previous suggestion for overcoming the lack of said templates.

[Fir.7932]

Are templates going to punish people who spent their time making legendary gear, just so they could play multiple builds depending on the situation?

[Jthug.9506]

Sort of...

You can do that with multiple sets of ascended gear and always could. With the new build templates system you will still be able to do all of that, the only downside of using the legendary gear will be that if you use multiple sets of ascended gear for each gear template, each set will be able to have it's own skins, where as the legendary gear will just be the one skin.

In any case the big disappointment for me is that it will become much more difficult to move legendary gear between alts as unequiping gear from the armor will destroy that template's settings for the stats/runes/sigils and infusions. meaning moving gear between characters will effectively mean recreating the gear template from scratch every time.

[Operator.2590]

@"Fir.7932" said:Are templates going to punish people who spent their time making legendary gear, just so they could play multiple builds depending on the situation?

I'm not really sure where you're getting that it "punishes" legendaries. They're still account bound and able to be swapped to all your characters. You're still able to change their stats. Everything about legendaries are still the same as they've ever been--now you can just have different stat selections saved on multiple build tabs for auto-swapping instead of going through the menus.

[Jthug.9506]

Unequiping a legendary item from the armory will remove it from all the gear templates on that character which will cause the template to forget the stats, sigils, runes, and infusions selected in each gear template in which that legendary item was used. So those templates are effectively broken and have to be manually reset every time you move legendary gear across characters.

[kharmin.7683]

Thread already exists on templates and legendaries https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues

[Operator.2590]

@Jthug.9506 said:Unequiping a legendary item from the armory will remove it from all the gear templates on that character which will cause the template to forget the stats, sigils, runes, and infusions selected in each gear template in which that legendary item was used. So those templates are effectively broken and have to be manually reset every time you move legendary gear across characters.So you mean what everyone had to do anyway, before it was implemented?

[Ashantara.8731]

@Fir.7932 said:Are templates going to punish people who spent their time making legendary gear, just so they could play multiple builds depending on the situation?

Yes, because - if you want the same one-click convenience as everyone else - you will have to make several templates for your legendary gear, which is absurd. A solution, though a costly one, would be to be able to store equipment information in the build storage as well, so you could at least load it into one slot. But that's not possible, either.

[Trinnitty.8256]

they should just have a hero panel that absorbs (unlocks) legendary gear to be used by all characters on your account. Since after all its account bound and just saves people from playing merry go around trying to find them or other characters just to be used on current character.

[Operator.2590]

@Trinnitty.8256 said:they should just have a hero panel that absorbs (unlocks) legendary gear to be used by all characters on your account. Since after all its account bound and just saves people from playing merry go around trying to find them or other characters just to be used on current character.

Now this would be a constructive and useful solution—that’d definitely make many things easier.

[Jthug.9506]

@Operator.2590 said:

@Jthug.9506 said:Unequiping a legendary item from the armory will remove it from all the gear templates on that character which will cause the template to forget the stats, sigils, runes, and infusions selected in each gear template in which that legendary item was used. So those templates are effectively broken and have to be manually reset every time you move legendary gear across characters.So you mean what everyone had to do anyway, before it was implemented?

Everyone who wasn’t using arc templates sure.

And for those people how many do you think invested in full sets of legendary armor trinkets and weapons for multiple characters and were regularly swapping that gear between them?

My guess is no one.

Point being you would be severely crippled if you want to shuffle legendary items between characters with regularity and plan to use build templates. Hopefully ANET will do as was suggested above and have some sort of unlock to share legendary items between alts without breaking the gear templates.

[starlinvf.1358]

@"Trinnitty.8256" said:they should just have a hero panel that absorbs (unlocks) legendary gear to be used by all characters on your account. Since after all its account bound and just saves people from playing merry go around trying to find them or other characters just to be used on current character.

I would say they wouldn't do it, simply on the grounds of defeating its purpose as a gold sink. Using QOL as a gold sink motivator is an oddly interesting approach to the situation, because it seems uniquely capable of scaling directly with the player's personality, without creating a treadmill problem for "best in slot". Its impractical for the average player, and only has utility in a very particular type of buildcraft.... one where the player is already at maximum cost efficiency.

When it was introduced, it was objectively anti-cost effective to make a legendary armor set for any character that ran less then 6 builds of either wildly different, or incredibly granular in how its stats are managed. Which was a similar issue when Ascended armor first came out, as it wasn't worth the 10 fold cost increase unless you NEEDED the infusions slots for Fractals. Asc gear is too expensive to salvage for runes, and only have a small amount of stats (~2% overall)..... which left its practicality (for sharing) entirely on the fact that Zerks was the only stats we ever used, and one rune dominated the meta.

Asc being account bound, and allowed stat changes, was explicitly done to lower the barrier for Alts in fractals. IE it was never meant to be used to elevate a "best in slot", or bypass the costs of gearing up multiple characters. Just because we use it that way does not equate that the situation is acceptable from the Dev's perspective. Especially when Asc and Legendary gear production costs are the ONLY successful long term money sinks the game. Now that Asc gear is beyond saturated, and our collective gold production rate is by far the highest in the game's history, the legendary weapon and armor collecting is the only non-seasonal (including the life span of LS chapters) that are drawing wealth away from the player base.

Gear templates doesn't change, or was ever meant to change these factors. If that was their goal, they would had made the system an "Unlock" style that you Feed gear into to make those stats and runes/sigils available.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@Operator.2590 said:

@"Fir.7932" said:Are templates going to punish people who spent their time making legendary gear, just so they could play multiple builds depending on the situation?

I'm not really sure where you're getting that it "punishes" legendaries. They're still account bound and able to be swapped to all your characters. You're still able to change their stats. Everything about legendaries are still the same as they've ever been--now you can just have different stat selections saved on multiple build tabs for auto-swapping instead of going through the menus.

I've responded to these arguments many times in this thread. For the sake of clarity, here is the breakdown again.

Legendary items remain the same.

Ascended items gain features - additional bag space saved compared with legendaries and skin swapping.

"Punishment" - if a player keeps only legendary gear they pay the same for their equipment templates but get less features.

Alternatively, if a player in legendaries wants to be feature equitable from their equipment template purchases they need to invest in new ascended sets.

"Punishment" - the legendaries become a multiple thousand of gold tax for no additional benefits.

Personally I disagree with the term punishment, but its being used above to try and clarify my points (yet again). The situation is closer to a reward scheme that instead of giving you a free coffee after X purchases, makes your coffee increasingly more expensive if you keep buying it.

I think asking for Arenanet to realise the loss in effective inventory space is going to be too much. However, I'd at least like the nicety of being able to store different fashion loadouts but using the same legendary armor on one character. That seems like a fair trade off given the disparity in gained inventory space.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@"kharmin.7683" said:Thread already exists on templates and legendaries https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues

Yes, that thread does already exist. Because it is this thread.

[kharmin.7683]

Because it was merged. By request.

[Lucinellia.9247]

@kharmin.7683 said:Because it was merged. By request.

So why are you posting here with a link to the same thread that people are already discussing in? I don't mind the free bumps, but do contribute more.

[kharmin.7683]

Because I posted the link before it was merged.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

Ok, My mistake... fair enough

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

Ok, My mistake... fair enough

When he equipment template swapped it was because he had different gear equipped in those slots.

[Kidel.2057]

Equipment Templates (character-bound)[...]

• Stores armor pieces, weapons, trinkets, and upgrades

So this is the issue for me. Basically you can store from 3 to 6 sets ascended armor and get 0 used slots of inventory and 3-6 different sets with 3-6 different skins.While if you spent a lot of time grinding for your legendary armor (just because of the easy access to different builds and more inventory space) you get the exact same QoL, but with only 1 skin instead of 6.

Not only that, but 1 piece of legendary gear costs from 10 to 20 times more compared to an ascended item, so you get more value for less.

This is absolutely insane. I could understand if at least the gear still took up inventory space, but with the fact that Equipment Templates are basically free storage, there is really no point in keeping the legendary armor.

[Taygus.4571]

actually I worked it out on another post, legendary armor set costs about the same as 8-10 ascended sets of armor..so its not too far off.

You can also change your build and runes whenever you like. And if you have +9 +5 infusions, it becomes noticeably cheaper to have legendary.

I think they want to add the ability to have different skins to ledgie armor, but they didnt want to hold templates off on that alone. (they said something of the like on the stream).

[Ashantara.8731]

@Kidel.2057 said:Build Templates and Legendary Armor

There are at least two other threads on the topic already...

And yes, you are correct.

[Kidel.2057]

@Taygus.4571 said:I think they want to add the ability to have different skins to ledgie armor, but they didnt want to hold templates off on that alone. (they said something of the like on the stream).

Do you have source for this? It would solve the issue.

[Kidel.2057]

100% agree with OP. You can't flly uilize your extra slot if you have legendary armor and you don't get any benefit compared to having 10 extra looks on your character. _

Come on ANET, this game lives on people collecting different skins.

[Taygus.4571]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

Ok, My mistake... fair enough

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Miatela.5047" said:

@"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:I dont really see what your seeing. Whatever you can do with ascended you can do with legendary.

No, you can't. That is the issue.

If you have ascended gear you gain the ability to fashion swap without having to invest in extra storage as you'll be able to fully utilise the equipment slots. If you are using a set of legendary gear, you cannot fashion swap and you gain less effective storage unless you go out of your way and buy ascended items - items that weren't needed because of what was previously supported as being an Anet-backed solution to the lack of templates. At that point, a player has effectively paid a tax of over 2000 gold for a legendary armor that will effectively be used as an ascended set, over 2000 gold per legendary weapon and more than that for any trinkets

because they were rolling with what Arenanet previously released to overcome the issue of no templates.

We actually don't know if this is true yet.. or if the wardrobe only loads the first equipment tab

We see the guardian guy switch bettwen two diffrent looks when he changes equipment templates so we do know about it.

oh I don't remember seeing that...dyes too?

Yes dyes aswell

you can see it here

No idea why it dont start at were I want it start at but its at 24.10

Ok, My mistake... fair enough

When he equipment template swapped it was because he had different gear equipped in those slots.

yeah, You didn't need to reiterateI already said "my mistake".