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Projectiles need to be revamped and it's counters


Halbarz.3854

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There are to many skills currently in the game that negate projectiles it makes little to no sense to do this as the classes that use them are already seen as "garbage"

Some of the current bubbles/shields/ etc. that reflect projectiles should be revamped to either:

  • only give boons to nearby allies when projectiles go through but they still receive a portion of the damage.
  • Some of the shields/bubbles should reflect spell/magic based damage instead of projectile damage.
  • engineer / firebrand bubble should neutralize/cleanup aoe's while reducing incoming projectile damage by 33%

these are just a few suggestions, but could bring some new gameplay and tactics to wvw. It would also be beneficial to both zerg/blobbers and roamers (since they do not get invited :P)

Do you agree with this or do you think that the current way projectiles work and it's counters are fine?

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totally agree that the projectile hate is over the top right now and waaaay to easily acccessed. I made a thread a while back suggesting bubbles work liek stability with a set amount of projectiles they could block before vanishing.there are so many way u could tweak these things to make it much more enjoyable for classes whose abilities come from projectiles.One of the responses i got with ym thread was someone being scared that rangers would become OP if we did that. BUt lets be honest if u are in a blob and rangers ur biggest problem then no1 can help ya

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@Syrus.2174 said:You only realize how much projectile hate there is, when you use something like Engi mortar.It'd definitely be an idea to make bubbles and such have a limit too how many projectiles they can block before they end.

True,you only notice it when you run on a spec relying heavily on projectiles,aka DE. Thing is most people don't run alone,and it's mostly the combo of Fb - holo/scrap - Ele, they can rotate reflect - block vs projectiles pretty much forever. And then you also have to worry about random obstructs. I understand there needs to be some counter vs range obviously but in teamfights it can be over the top. Hence the blob meta is all about aoe spamm aswell because there's hardly any getting through with projectiles and melee trains aren't a thing because, aoe meta. One problem just creates another.

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Well.... agreed with all points so far. Two revenants can have permanent projectile denial by just timing their hammer 4 skill. And a single wall can block seemingly infinite projectiles from countless enemies.

Either limit the projectiles destroyed before the skill is exhausted, or change absorption / reflect to reduce projectile damage (eg: -33% damage instead of destroying, and reflected damage triggers on the attacker like retaliation does).

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Expanding anti-projectile skills beyond simply destroying/reflecting them is an excellent idea. Same for limiting the number of reflects, though that can vary in effectiveness if you're fighting a high-volume vs. high-value enemy.

Unfortunately, this is pretty much a strictly WvW problem...there's a little more hope than there used to be, but not much.

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@"Halbarz.3854" said:There are to many skills currently in the game that negate projectiles it makes little to no sense to do this as the classes that use them are already seen as "garbage"

Some of the current bubbles/shields/ etc. that reflect projectiles should be revamped to either:

  • only give boons to nearby allies when projectiles go through but they still receive a portion of the damage.
  • Some of the shields/bubbles should reflect spell/magic based damage instead of projectile damage.
  • engineer / firebrand bubble should neutralize/cleanup aoe's while reducing incoming projectile damage by 33%

these are just a few suggestions, but could bring some new gameplay and tactics to wvw. It would also be beneficial to both zerg/blobbers and roamers (since they do not get invited :P)

Do you agree with this or do you think that the current way projectiles work and it's counters are fine?

As long as the counters of individual spell-casters can't negate damage from incoming siege projectiles I'm pretty happy.As long as the ability to shield siege weapons, such as catapults, from counter-siege fire remains difficult to achieve without team work - i.e. a network of spotters, voice comms etc - I'm happy with how things are.

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Get rid of retaliation completely.Its a stupid mechanic There's no direct counter ,It's not distributed evenly between classes, it's the only boon that directly punishes the attacker for the attack.It has no place in this game period.All other counters to projectiles need to be toned down and need to be more singular and not overly shared .This is what armour/toughness is for. Anet needs to force a degree of self reliance on each player which means having adequate armour and vitality and healing without needing total protection from one or two other players .This would significantly reduce the power creep that exists in the game right now.The armour and toughness needs to be as important as the damage that player dishes out.Right now people can hide behind boon protection from only a few and virtually run completely naked while putting out ridiculous damage .This game needs to go back to a game of skill and not a game of who has the most boon protection spam, carrying unskilled players in massive blobs.A degree of self reliance forces the players to survive by improving their skill.

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@Mokk.2397 said:Get rid of retaliation completely.Its a stupid mechanic There's no direct counter ,It's not distributed evenly between classes, it's the only boon that directly punishes the attacker for the attack.It has no place in this game period.All other counters to projectiles need to be toned down and need to be more singular and not overly shared .This is what armour/toughness is for. Anet needs to force a degree of self reliance on each player which means having adequate armour and vitality and healing without needing total protection from one or two other players .This would significantly reduce the power creep that exists in the game right now.The armour and toughness needs to be as important as the damage that player dishes out.Right now people can hide behind boon protection from only a few and virtually run completely naked while putting out ridiculous damage .This game needs to go back to a game of skill and not a game of who has the most boon protection spam, carrying unskilled players in massive blobs.A degree of self reliance forces the players to survive by improving their skill.

The counter play to retel is to 'burst' the enemy down effectivelyAnd not spam skills

Yeah some builds are basicly demanding alot of skills to be cast in a short period...and for the rest all they have to do is to kite...on those matters retel is 'usefull'...

The downside of IT it's a passive boon that implies damage; on that level i agree...guards shit IT randomlt and use can be Toned down..but on the level of 'no counterplay' from the guard perspective; can we attack during our invuln? Stomp while dodging, get random extra damage from people? Access to stealth? And able to disengage without sacrifising half out skill/runeslots?

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:Get rid of retaliation completely.Its a stupid mechanic There's no direct counter ,It's not distributed evenly between classes, it's the only boon that directly punishes the attacker for the attack.It has no place in this game period.All other counters to projectiles need to be toned down and need to be more singular and not overly shared .This is what armour/toughness is for. Anet needs to force a degree of self reliance on each player which means having adequate armour and vitality and healing without needing total protection from one or two other players .This would significantly reduce the power creep that exists in the game right now.The armour and toughness needs to be as important as the damage that player dishes out.Right now people can hide behind boon protection from only a few and virtually run completely naked while putting out ridiculous damage .This game needs to go back to a game of skill and not a game of who has the most boon protection spam, carrying unskilled players in massive blobs.A degree of self reliance forces the players to survive by improving their skill.

The counter play to retel is to 'burst' the enemy down effectivelyAnd not spam skills

Yeah some builds are basicly demanding alot of skills to be cast in a short period...and for the rest all they have to do is to kite...on those matters retel is 'usefull'...

The downside of IT it's a passive boon that implies damage; on that level i agree...guards kitten IT randomlt and use can be Toned down..but on the level of 'no counterplay' from the guard perspective; can we attack during our invuln? Stomp while dodging, get random extra damage from people? Access to stealth? And able to disengage without sacrifising half out skill/runeslots?

Retal has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of skills you cast. It's all about the amount of hits that skills do. Basically, retaliation completely blows up builds that have skills that do many hits with small damage. Comparing it to invuln, stealth and dodges is disingenuous because out of those only stealth can be shared and not for long. Retaliation can potentially be applied to allies permanently.

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Bubbles should work exactly like the drop shield in halo where it doesn't move and can only absorb a certain amount of projectiles before being destroyed. Skills like a scrappers defense field would root them in place with the bubble - otherwise we just create AOE spam.

Below is how they should work:maxresdefault.jpg

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@Mokk.2397 said:Get rid of retaliation completely.Its a stupid mechanic There's no direct counter ,It's not distributed evenly between classes, it's the only boon that directly punishes the attacker for the attack.It has no place in this game period.All other counters to projectiles need to be toned down and need to be more singular and not overly shared .This is what armour/toughness is for. Anet needs to force a degree of self reliance on each player which means having adequate armour and vitality and healing without needing total protection from one or two other players .This would significantly reduce the power creep that exists in the game right now.The armour and toughness needs to be as important as the damage that player dishes out.Right now people can hide behind boon protection from only a few and virtually run completely naked while putting out ridiculous damage .This game needs to go back to a game of skill and not a game of who has the most boon protection spam, carrying unskilled players in massive blobs.A degree of self reliance forces the players to survive by improving their skill.

Retal and aegis should not be shareable. Self casts are ok if they are limited and actually require timing to make use of them.For all other boons the uptime and the number of sources should be reduced. Full boon coverage on the whole squad should not be something permanent.

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Or maybe stop spamming exclusively ranged builds and then you won't have to complain about projectile counters?

Pretty much the only things that need to be "revamped" about the projectiles is unification of attack ranges (sooo the projectile arcs) and occational BS terrain obstructions when there's actually nothing in the way between the attacker and the target.

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