WvW Frontline Warrior/SpellBreaker - Immortal Medusa

[iToughy.9456]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAw6JlNwEZPsQ2JeqS9vNA-zVRYgB9dGdfgHTeChIEUNLBSXgmzKwwXEBYP8kBPWk1SD-wGreat at starting fight on Zerg vs Zerg.Stats: Wanderer Stats on Weap/Arm/Back with Commander Stats on others.Skill: Defiant Stance, Balance Stance, Featherfoot Grace, Endure Pain, WoDisenchantmentTrait: Defense[1.1.1], Tactic[1.3.3], SpellBreaker[3.2.1]

1. Armor: Recommending Superior Rune of the Zephyrite for unlimited Superspeed. You can also run Superior Rune of Speed to boost run speed while in Swiftness.
2. Weapon: Superior Sigil of Nullification for extra boon strips.
   • Sword/Shield: Superior Sigil of Incapacitation. This seem like extra and wasteful because you already have Auto Sword 1 "Hamstring," but the extra procs will burn through the enemy's cleanses.
   • Hammer: Superior Sigil of Ice. [i tried Superior Sigil of Incapacitation; it triggered the cooldown of Tactics Trait "Leg Specialist" making you miss out on your Hammer Skill 3 "Hammer Shock."]
3. Infusion: optional
   • Starting the fight by using Skill 4 "Shield Bash" while in a field to trigger Zephyrite for Superspeed, then Heal Skill "Defiant Stance" & Stance Skill "Balanced Stance" and follow up with Skill 2 "Savage Leap," which will also trigger Zephyrite again (if you have a lucky field) and place you in front/middle of the Zerg to setup for your Elite Skill "Winds of Disenchantment."
   • [While in Sword/Shield, DO NOT auto attacks because it will trigger Superior Sigil of Incapacitation & Tactics Trait "Leg Specialist."]
   • Pop your Meditation Skill "Featherfoot Grace" & Stance Skill "Endure Pain" right after Defiant Stance runs out. Do not worry about cutting your Elite Skill "Winds of Disenchantment" short.
   • Switch to Hammer and use Skill 3 "Hammer Shock" to Cripple and trigger Tactics Trait "Leg Specialist" to immobilize ALL 5 poor peps. Use Special Skill F1 "Earthshaker" & F2 "Full Counter." They both will trigger Tactics Trait "Leg Specialist" to immobilize and remove boons.
   • Hammer Skill 4 and 5 follow after to Stun and remove extra boons.
   • You can stay on Hammer Auto 1 and wait for CC skill cooldown or switch back to Sword/Shield.
   • Sword/Shield Auto 1 will cripple and immobilize your foe continuously. Skill 2 "Savage Leap" to get yourself out of trouble. Skill 5 "Shield Stance" will heal yourself up while grant might to allies. Special Skill "Flurry" will also immobilize.
   • Play around your cooldown on Heal Skill "Defiance Stance." Your Defense Trait "Defy Pain" will give you a cushion, but do not rely on that. You will only down if you run out of Stability so use Balance Stance when can.

1 or 2 SB with this build will forcing your foe to use all their cleanses and stun break. Your best place to be is the backline where they cannot do a single thing while their frontline will melt through your Zerg's bombs. With another Frontline Support Firebrand with Great Sword Skill 3 "Leap of Faith" will be a deadly combo. Let me know where to improve the build. Thank you.

[RisenHowl.2419]

You can do sw/axe and even run strength instead of defense. Mending might is crazy with phalanx strength and fgj

[iToughy.9456]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You can do sw/axe and even run strength instead of defense. Mending might is crazy with phalanx strength and fgj

By losing Defense for Strength, you lose both Defiance Stand and Last Stand, both giving you total of 6 - 8 sec of immunity to Death. If you trading out Shield for Axe losing 4 sec of Superspeed and another 3 second of Blocking/Heal.The DPS and Heal you get from Strength/Axe does not help you while you are in the middle of the enemy Zerg. Cutting down your survive time = no DPS. The DPS you lost will be buff by your teammate Zerg.With the same Class Stance Skills (adding Frenzy or Berserker Stance for Featherfoot) you can run full Zerker with GS/Axe2 while in Berserker Elite will give you Strongest Burst (personally from 10k-50k in 1-2 sec on a single enemy with not counting the 30K+ of AoE).

[RisenHowl.2419]

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You can do sw/axe and even run strength instead of defense. Mending might is crazy with phalanx strength and fgj

By losing Defense for Strength, you lose both Defiance Stand and Last Stand, both giving you total of 6 - 8 sec of immunity to Death. If you trading out Shield for Axe losing 4 sec of Superspeed and another 3 second of Blocking/Heal.The DPS and Heal you get from Strength/Axe does not help you while you are in the middle of the enemy Zerg. Cutting down your survive time = no DPS. The DPS you lost will be buff by your teammate Zerg.With the same Class Stance Skills (adding Frenzy or Berserker Stance for Featherfoot) you can run full Zerker with GS/Axe2 while in Berserker Elite will give you Strongest Burst (personally from 10k-50k in 1-2 sec on a single enemy with not counting the 30K+ of AoE).

Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

No one runs shield in wvw zergs, it's not needed. Wh offers group support while axe gives damage, those are the zerg weapons of choice for offhands.

With strength, fried dumpling, and sigil of strength you heal for 1.6k when you crit. Whirling axe essentially makes you immortal if you have stability. For extra fun, use pack runes =D

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You can do sw/axe and even run strength instead of defense. Mending might is crazy with phalanx strength and fgj

By losing Defense for Strength, you lose both Defiance Stand and Last Stand, both giving you total of 6 - 8 sec of immunity to Death. If you trading out Shield for Axe losing 4 sec of Superspeed and another 3 second of Blocking/Heal.The DPS and Heal you get from Strength/Axe does not help you while you are in the middle of the enemy Zerg. Cutting down your survive time = no DPS. The DPS you lost will be buff by your teammate Zerg.With the same Class Stance Skills (adding Frenzy or Berserker Stance for Featherfoot) you can run full Zerker with GS/Axe2 while in Berserker Elite will give you Strongest Burst (personally from 10k-50k in 1-2 sec on a single enemy with not counting the 30K+ of AoE).

Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

No one runs shield in wvw zergs, it's not needed. Wh offers group support while axe gives damage, those are the zerg weapons of choice for offhands.

With strength, fried dumpling, and sigil of strength you heal for 1.6k when you crit. Whirling axe essentially makes you immortal if you have stability. For extra fun, use pack runes =D

I am all for less lazy Warrior gameplay. Double EP and Last Stand are great crutches if you need them (and if you need them, then for the love of the Six True Gods use them), but self sustaining yourself while simultaneously buffing your allies is better.

For the original build posted though, there is not much self might on the build. Martial Cadence may be a better pick to get your Leaps back up quicker for more superspeed. That or drop one of EP or BS for FGJ and keep the Phalanx Strength.

[iToughy.9456]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:You can do sw/axe and even run strength instead of defense. Mending might is crazy with phalanx strength and fgj

By losing Defense for Strength, you lose both Defiance Stand and Last Stand, both giving you total of 6 - 8 sec of immunity to Death. If you trading out Shield for Axe losing 4 sec of Superspeed and another 3 second of Blocking/Heal.The DPS and Heal you get from Strength/Axe does not help you while you are in the middle of the enemy Zerg. Cutting down your survive time = no DPS. The DPS you lost will be buff by your teammate Zerg.With the same Class Stance Skills (adding Frenzy or Berserker Stance for Featherfoot) you can run full Zerker with GS/Axe2 while in Berserker Elite will give you Strongest Burst (personally from 10k-50k in 1-2 sec on a single enemy with not counting the 30K+ of AoE).

Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

No one runs shield in wvw zergs, it's not needed. Wh offers group support while axe gives damage, those are the zerg weapons of choice for offhands.

With strength, fried dumpling, and sigil of strength you heal for 1.6k when you crit. Whirling axe essentially makes you immortal if you have stability. For extra fun, use pack runes =D

I am all for less lazy Warrior gameplay. Double EP and Last Stand are great crutches if you need them (and if you need them, then for the love of the Six True Gods use them), but self sustaining yourself while simultaneously buffing your allies is better.

For the original build posted though, there is not much self might on the build. Martial Cadence may be a better pick to get your Leaps back up quicker for more superspeed. That or drop one of EP or BS for FGJ and keep the Phalanx Strength.

Try it outThis build giving allies 100% up keep on Might as the fight going along, as soon as you switch to Sword/Shield mode. Which also heal you, as I mentioned.Zerg vs Zerg is a different story as to 1 vs 1, please keep that in mind.This build doesn't care about putting out most of the damage yourself. It mostly negate the enemy Zerg from putting out damage while your Zerg is bombing.The amount of boon striping you are putting out is worth almost 3-5 necro.You can mostly 1 vs 20 for almost 15+ seconds with the rotation I putted out.No damage from Enemy = More damage from your Zerg = More damage overall = Easiest Win of your life.A full squad (30-50) SHOULD NOT have more than 2 of this build as mentioned.

[RedShark.9548]

If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

[Blocki.4931]

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

[iToughy.9456]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while FORCING CLEANSES; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are ONE MAN ARMY.You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and DO NOT bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

[Fellwitch.4536]

After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Fellwitch.4536 said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

[RedShark.9548]

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fellwitch.4536 said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fellwitch.4536 said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

If it was a solo warrior, maybe STR, TACT, SPB with FGJ, EP, BS for utilities? Could be core with STR, TACT, DEF as well with the same utilities. Vigorous Shouts instead of Phalanx Strength if solo roaming?

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Fellwitch.4536" said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

If it was a solo warrior, maybe STR, TACT, SPB with FGJ, EP, BS for utilities? Could be core with STR, TACT, DEF as well with the same utilities. Vigorous Shouts instead of Phalanx Strength if solo roaming?

He said it was a core warrior, but i dont rly see core war being completely immune to condis, if he was, the condi build was kitten.

I dont rly see a good roamer dying to a roaming warrior that isnt using fast hands, the pressure is just too low.

He also said immune to cc... So double balanced stance?(still not rly immune to cc, but kay)Perma 25 might? Fgj and forceful gs with mmr makes kinda senseRunning fgj also indicates tactic, because obvious trait choicesWhere is the condi immunity coming from?

Now you have a defense, tactic and strength warri? Without discipline, now dawdler will come and say "great argument yOu LoSe A tRaItLiNe"But yea that actually is a big fat argument for warriors, because losing fast hands is a huuge deal, especially in dueling or smallscale scenariosIts alot more clunky and easy kiteable, less threatening dmg combos etc.

[DemonSeed.3528]

That was my problem in an earlier build so I tested with warrior runes from the loss of wep swap cd but it was kind of iffy. Still going to mess around a bit more. I also did play around with the idea of frenzy sigils and Martial Cadence, but I do want to keep phalanx str.

[nthmetal.9652]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

How does that work? Where does the crazy amount of 10k instant heal come from? is it because the healing on "For Great Justice" (due to mgiht generation) is multiplied by the stacks of might, multiplied by the amount of allies also receiving the healing? What traits are responsible for that? is it due to Might Makes Right, due to Mending Might, the combination of both (so you need to absolutely take strength AND tactics) to achieve that?

So the build originally presented here by @toughidiot.4213 , the changes suggested by @RisenHowl.2419 (is there a ready build for these modifications? I am not clear what I would need to replace and what is essential to keep!) and the build I currently run (a variation of @RisenHowl.2419 spellbreaker with sword+axe/hammer for DPS) all sound like fun things to play.

[Lonecap.4105]

At this point might aswell go Berserker and do some real damage

[RisenHowl.2419]

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

How does that work? Where does the crazy amount of 10k instant heal come from? is it because the healing on "For Great Justice" (due to mgiht generation) is multiplied by the stacks of might, multiplied by the amount of allies also receiving the healing? What traits are responsible for that? is it due to Might Makes Right, due to Mending Might, the combination of both (so you need to absolutely take strength AND tactics) to achieve that?

So the build originally presented here by @toughidiot.4213 , the changes suggested by @RisenHowl.2419 (

is there a ready build for these modifications? I am not clear what I would need to replace and what is essential to keep!

) and the build I currently run (a variation of @RisenHowl.2419 spellbreaker with sword+axe/hammer for DPS) all sound like fun things to play.

I haven't had the chance to really spend time working out the best way to do it, but from the things I have tried you can 100% run str/tactics now in a zerg with comfortable survivability. I was testing with mostly zerker/assassin gear to boot, the healing from MMR+forceful gs+mending might+phalanx strength is crazy.

I'm probably going to be working on a berserker build with these once I finish testing a frontline build for fb that keeps 100% quickness while doing solid damage, so it'll be a few weeks

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Fellwitch.4536" said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

If it was a solo warrior, maybe STR, TACT, SPB with FGJ, EP, BS for utilities? Could be core with STR, TACT, DEF as well with the same utilities. Vigorous Shouts instead of Phalanx Strength if solo roaming?

He said it was a core warrior, but i dont rly see core war being completely immune to condis, if he was, the condi build was kitten.

Shake it Off and Defiant Stance would work to nullify condis, Could also have have condi duration decrease food/runes.

I dont rly see a good roamer dying to a roaming warrior that isnt using fast hands, the pressure is just too low.

Depends on the damage and the warrior then though doesn't it?

He also said immune to cc... So double balanced stance?

Probably, but then Shake it Off also has a short CD between the 2 uses.

(still not rly immune to cc, but kay)Perma 25 might? Fgj and forceful gs with mmr makes kinda sense

yep.

Running fgj also indicates tactic, because obvious trait choices

Other than PS vs VS, maybe Shrug it Off for increased condi counter, maybe Soldier's Comfort.

Where is the condi immunity coming from?

It it was really immunity, then maybe Healing Sig being used, or Warhorn.

Now you have a defense, tactic and strength warri? Without discipline, now dawdler will come and say "great argument yOu LoSe A tRaItLiNe"

Could still be Discipline instead of Defense. With enough healing from Might generation Double EP is nowhere near needed in small scale/dueling. Even a single EP isn't as needed there either if other sustain is high enough.

But yea that actually is a big fat argument for warriors, because losing fast hands is a huuge deal, especially in dueling or smallscale scenariosIts alot more clunky and easy kiteable, less threatening dmg combos etc.This depends on the weapon set, which I don't think was shared yet.

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

How does that work? Where does the crazy amount of 10k instant heal come from? is it because the healing on "For Great Justice" (due to mgiht generation) is multiplied by the stacks of might, multiplied by the amount of allies also receiving the healing? What traits are responsible for that? is it due to Might Makes Right, due to Mending Might, the combination of both (so you need to absolutely take strength AND tactics) to achieve that?

12 might per person from FGJ (5 people from base skill + 5 more from Phalanx Strength) ~90 hp per might = 10,800 not including healing from MMR which would become something like 2,400, but the 10.8k heal does not require investment into Strength, only for 5 random people to be within 600 units of you.

So the build originally presented here by @toughidiot.4213 , the changes suggested by @RisenHowl.2419 (is there a ready build for these modifications? I am not clear what I would need to replace and what is essential to keep!) and the build I currently run (a variation of @RisenHowl.2419 spellbreaker with sword+axe/hammer for DPS) all sound like fun things to play.

Most things are fun to play. Several utilities/traits that are considered mandatory truly are not outside of coordinated teams. If you find something that works better for you than what is considered 'optimal' then that is what is optimal for you and you should feel free to play it to your hearts content.

[Shroud.2307]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fellwitch.4536 said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Bring Elixir X.

It's funny you say core Engi and Revenant because I often roam with a friend who's a Revenant main, and I've somewhat recently taken to maining core power Engineer. Though there are a lot of fights where we need to excessively kite, we've still been capable of winning heavily outnumbered fights and even open field fights against better builds. There are many times I'll miss or some other problem denies us the kill, but there are also many times turning someone in to a Moa is the deciding factor in our success. Can't tell you how many times we've killed support Firebrands healing their buddies, Rampage Warrior's trying to escape or condi Mirages being condi Mirages just by gibbing them with the 'ol Moa.

I've fought something similar to what you're talking about except he was using longbow for guaranteed Adrenal Health procs. After I figured out what he was doing, I played around with him for a bit forcing Stances and making him confident until I baited him in to chasing me up a hill where I tossed my elixir behind me and Moa'd him. He was tanky enough that I needed to use every high damage skill I could while he was Moa'd, but it was still enough to kill him in that time.

[RedShark.9548]

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Fellwitch.4536" said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

If it was a solo warrior, maybe STR, TACT, SPB with FGJ, EP, BS for utilities? Could be core with STR, TACT, DEF as well with the same utilities. Vigorous Shouts instead of Phalanx Strength if solo roaming?

He said it was a core warrior, but i dont rly see core war being completely immune to condis, if he was, the condi build was kitten.

Shake it Off and Defiant Stance would work to nullify condis, Could also have have condi duration decrease food/runes.

I dont rly see a good roamer dying to a roaming warrior that isnt using fast hands, the pressure is just too low.

Depends on the damage and the warrior then though doesn't it?

He also said immune to cc... So double balanced stance?

Probably, but then Shake it Off also has a short CD between the 2 uses.

(still not rly immune to cc, but kay)Perma 25 might? Fgj and forceful gs with mmr makes kinda sense

yep.

Running fgj also indicates tactic, because obvious trait choices

Other than PS vs VS, maybe Shrug it Off for increased condi counter, maybe Soldier's Comfort.

Where is the condi immunity coming from?

It it was really immunity, then maybe Healing Sig being used, or Warhorn.

Now you have a defense, tactic and strength warri? Without discipline, now dawdler will come and say "great argument yOu LoSe A tRaItLiNe"

Could still be Discipline instead of Defense. With enough healing from Might generation Double EP is nowhere near needed in small scale/dueling. Even a single EP isn't as needed there either if other sustain is high enough.

But yea that actually is a big fat argument for warriors, because losing fast hands is a huuge deal, especially in dueling or smallscale scenariosIts alot more clunky and easy kiteable, less threatening dmg combos etc.This depends on the weapon set, which I don't think was shared yet.

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

How does that work? Where does the crazy amount of 10k instant heal come from? is it because the healing on "For Great Justice" (due to mgiht generation) is multiplied by the stacks of might, multiplied by the amount of allies also receiving the healing? What traits are responsible for that? is it due to Might Makes Right, due to Mending Might, the combination of both (so you need to absolutely take strength AND tactics) to achieve that?

12 might per person from FGJ

(5 people from base skill + 5 more from Phalanx Strength)

~90 hp per might = 10,800 not including healing from MMR which would become something like 2,400, but the 10.8k heal does not require investment into Strength, only for 5 random people to be within 600 units of you.

So the build originally presented here by @toughidiot.4213 , the changes suggested by @RisenHowl.2419 (

is there a ready build for these modifications? I am not clear what I would need to replace and what is essential to keep!

) and the build I currently run (a variation of @RisenHowl.2419 spellbreaker with sword+axe/hammer for DPS) all sound like fun things to play.

Most things are fun to play. Several utilities/traits that are considered mandatory truly are not outside of coordinated teams. If you find something that works better for you than what is considered 'optimal' then that is what is optimal for you and you should feel free to play it to your hearts content.

Immunity to condi and cc implies that he has very high uptimes of stab and resistance... Which just isnt possible for warrior alone, especially when i a 1v2 scenario, after his cds ran out he should drop dead... Or the condi build is kitten (compared to the stronger condi builds running around that definately can kill a warri)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@toughidiot.4213 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:If you used fgj you would, with 1 button, give out 24 stacks for your whole party...And heal for a big chunk.

That said, id much rather run the full support pack, when using tactics, sword horn + hammer and fgj + shake it off

Also, why would you not run superior absorption on hammer3 boons on interrupt, without internal cd in wvwIts very unlikely to hit stab with the sigil you are usig

I get your take on disrupting the enemy with immobs etc, but i think keeping your team alive and clean of condis is the better dmg increase for your zerg.

Agreeing with this. Absorption is the perfect Sigil for Hammer in WvW. On top of that other spellbreaker trait that removes boons on CC that's just a boon ripping machine

I also did tried Absorption before this build and the outcome was not as effective as Nul/Ice since the enemy Zerg will 90% have their Stability up. This made Absorption, which good on the book, is bad on execution.And you gonna have to remember this is Frontline (not DPS or Support), your job is to be in the middle of their Zerg and constantly striping boons while

FORCING CLEANSES

; this will put you out of your Zerg party for a quite amount of time as you are

ONE MAN ARMY.

You will be surprise of how effective this will be. This isn't a playstyle for most people and

DO NOT

bring more than 2 of these in a squad. Because the effectiveness is exponential diminishing return.

You will pretty much always interrupt atleast 1 person in 5 ppl, thats already 3 boons ripped by absorption. That takes nullification 15seconds to accomplish.Are you 15 seconds inside the enemy zerg, hitting stuff? I doubt that, if you are, your enemies are straight up garbage. Just 1 more interrupt and you need to stay inside the enemy for 30 seconds.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Fellwitch.4536" said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Id love to see that warrior build, also, who plays core engi?

If it was a solo warrior, maybe STR, TACT, SPB with FGJ, EP, BS for utilities? Could be core with STR, TACT, DEF as well with the same utilities. Vigorous Shouts instead of Phalanx Strength if solo roaming?

He said it was a core warrior, but i dont rly see core war being completely immune to condis, if he was, the condi build was kitten.

Shake it Off and Defiant Stance would work to nullify condis, Could also have have condi duration decrease food/runes.

I dont rly see a good roamer dying to a roaming warrior that isnt using fast hands, the pressure is just too low.

Depends on the damage and the warrior then though doesn't it?

He also said immune to cc... So double balanced stance?

Probably, but then Shake it Off also has a short CD between the 2 uses.

(still not rly immune to cc, but kay)Perma 25 might? Fgj and forceful gs with mmr makes kinda sense

yep.

Running fgj also indicates tactic, because obvious trait choices

Other than PS vs VS, maybe Shrug it Off for increased condi counter, maybe Soldier's Comfort.

Where is the condi immunity coming from?

It it was really immunity, then maybe Healing Sig being used, or Warhorn.

Now you have a defense, tactic and strength warri? Without discipline, now dawdler will come and say "great argument yOu LoSe A tRaItLiNe"

Could still be Discipline instead of Defense. With enough healing from Might generation Double EP is nowhere near needed in small scale/dueling. Even a single EP isn't as needed there either if other sustain is high enough.

But yea that actually is a big fat argument for warriors, because losing fast hands is a huuge deal, especially in dueling or smallscale scenariosIts alot more clunky and easy kiteable, less threatening dmg combos etc.This depends on the weapon set, which I don't think was shared yet.

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Fgj becomes a 10k instant heal, with two casts, and you keep defiant stance. If you can't survive with that... =/

How does that work? Where does the crazy amount of 10k instant heal come from? is it because the healing on "For Great Justice" (due to mgiht generation) is multiplied by the stacks of might, multiplied by the amount of allies also receiving the healing? What traits are responsible for that? is it due to Might Makes Right, due to Mending Might, the combination of both (so you need to absolutely take strength AND tactics) to achieve that?

12 might per person from FGJ

(5 people from base skill + 5 more from Phalanx Strength)

~90 hp per might = 10,800 not including healing from MMR which would become something like 2,400, but the 10.8k heal does not require investment into Strength, only for 5 random people to be within 600 units of you.

So the build originally presented here by @toughidiot.4213 , the changes suggested by @RisenHowl.2419 (

is there a ready build for these modifications? I am not clear what I would need to replace and what is essential to keep!

) and the build I currently run (a variation of @RisenHowl.2419 spellbreaker with sword+axe/hammer for DPS) all sound like fun things to play.

Most things are fun to play. Several utilities/traits that are considered mandatory truly are not outside of coordinated teams. If you find something that works better for you than what is considered 'optimal' then that is what is optimal for you and you should feel free to play it to your hearts content.

Immunity to condi and cc implies that he has very high uptimes of stab and resistance... Which just isnt possible for warrior alone, especially when i a 1v2 scenario, after his cds ran out he should drop dead... Or the condi build is kitten (compared to the stronger condi builds running around that definately can kill a warri)

The statement could also have been hyperbole. If the warrior in question had Discipline, then they could remove 1 condi every 5s, more depending on sigils, in addition to what SiO offers. If this warrior also ran x/horn then horn4 and horn5 would also remove several condis. All of these would also heal with Shrug it Off traited. As far as CC, SiO offers 2 stunbreaks within 5s on a 25s CD, Shrug would offer another if the CC brought condi with it, EP and BS on the bar are two more stunbreaks. So, 4 stunbreaks on the utilities potentially, and maybe one more in the traits. If this warrior ran Defense instead of Discipline, then there will be two more stunbreaks along with stability on one of them.

Not saying the condi build wasn't trash, it might have been, but you can indeed have strong condi cleanse and enough stunbreaks on a warrior that someone would make hyperbolic statements on the forums. I also doubt that these two players had 4 CCs between them to be frank.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Fellwitch.4536 said:After reading this post I have realized I have been playing the wrong class (Necro/Reaper). I would much rather do as this guy does.Its funny.

Two of us fought one of these immortal warriors the other day (vanilla engineer+revenant vs vanilla warrior) and he was indeed completely unkillable. With this combo we have easily taken down holo+mirage meta combos, take your pick on any roamer but nope that warrior was unkillable. Instant and constant 25 might, immune to condi/cc and tons of healing. We fought him several times to no avail, even extended dueling vs me while my buddy rev came to help and was instantly killed (was a little funny).

However we did win one fight.

When a scourge came from the side as we where already engaged, corrupted him and pretty much downed him in 2 seconds.

Bring Elixir X.

It's funny you say core Engi and Revenant because I often roam with a friend who's a Revenant main, and I've somewhat recently taken to maining core power Engineer. Though there are a lot of fights where we need to excessively kite, we've still been capable of winning heavily outnumbered fights and even open field fights against better builds. There are many times I'll miss or some other problem denies us the kill, but there are also many times turning someone in to a Moa is the deciding factor in our success. Can't tell you how many times we've killed support Firebrands healing their buddies, Rampage Warrior's trying to escape or condi Mirages being condi Mirages just by gibbing them with the 'ol Moa.

I've fought something similar to what you're talking about except he was using longbow for guaranteed Adrenal Health procs. After I figured out what he was doing, I played around with him for a bit forcing Stances and making him confident until I baited him in to chasing me up a hill where I tossed my elixir behind me and Moa'd him. He was tanky enough that I needed to use every high damage skill I could while he was Moa'd, but it was still enough to kill him in that time.Of course, unfortunetly you can dodge, reflect, block, invouln, or just plain tp/run away from the rather slow and delayed toss. You rarely get a second chance due to the cooldown. But it's gotten me plenty of wins, true. And some self moa.

I do find it somewhat amusing that people still argue about the sustain capabilities of the dps warrior, considering it was a very strong class even before the patch and I've seen them just as immortal, even on vanilla spec among all the berserkers and spellbreakers. This patch merely brought them even more into the spotlight. Them becoming more popular in zergs automatically means less scourges and firebrands, cant complain about that. And if they use specs like in this thread even better. Zerg warriors are generally far easier to kill than the dedicated duelist builds.

[Absurd.2947]

Who even precasts defiant stance on engage and what is even the point of this build? It does nothing, it just survives.People are jumping this tactics train because they can't perform well enough on a damage spellbreaker.