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Mirage DPS Mesmer DPS in general...PvE focused

dontlook.1823dontlook.1823 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 20, 2019 in Mesmer

So I've recently returned to the game and noticed things have shifted a lot in terms of damage for the Mirage. I play fractal CMs and T4 as well as Recs and some raids here and there. (Could use a static). I'd like to consider myself an accomplished player. But I am actually really upset about how much things have shifted in terms of DPS. Mainly for the Mirage.

Mirage used to be top of the benchmarks. Now it has dipped sadly below the average. I get a lot of stink eyes in CMs for bringing a Condi class... I was hoping the balance team could take a good look at Mirage and give us something to work with. It would be a great way to cap the PoF release of Mirages (the most obvious desert theme) went back somewhere close to its former glory.

A lot of what I asked for happened. Mesmers become more shatter orientated as well as more active in terms of them dealing damage vs their clones. It is great bringing ideas up in the forums and seeing that stuff hit the game. Really shows the Devs take what their community has say into consideration.

I would just like to see the Meta change up a bit. I am not calling for a blanket buff or Nerf to other classes. It would be very awesome to see more classes and builds excel without knocking down other classes. Condi needs a little bit of a Revamp so it could play in a more competitive environments such as fractals CM and more Raid bosses. As of now, its just sort of "has it's glich."

Chrono is doing just fine but Mesmer condi, as well as some other condi classes, kind of got left for the sandstorm! :anguished:

It would just be nice to see the Mesmer excel in more places than one or two for that matter... I'm sure you get the idea. In all, the way DPS is structured in this game rewards a few as well as cycling builds out. It needs more stability... It would be nice to get a decent buff or bump in damage as we have had some ruthless nerfs in the past. Let's end PoF on a positive note and enter this new storyline with a good set of builds!!
P.S. can we do something with staff? It is like obsolete in PvE.... Been waiting to get a legendary staff for a while now!!
:+1:

More, more. More is always better. Chakata

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dontlook.1823 said:
    So I've recently returned to the game and noticed things have shifted a lot in terms of damage for the Mirage. I play fractal CMs and T4 as well as Recs and some raids here and there. (Could use a static). I'd like to consider myself an accomplished player. But I am actually really upset about how much things have shifted in terms of DPS. Mainly for the Mirage.

    Mirage used to be top of the benchmarks. Now it has dipped sadly below the average. I get a lot of stink eyes in CMs for bringing a Condi class... I was hoping the balance team could take a good look at Mirage and give us something to work with. It would be a great way to cap the PoF release of Mirages (the most obvious desert theme) went back somewhere close to its former glory.

    A lot of what I asked for happened. Mesmers become more shatter orientated as well as more active in terms of them dealing damage vs their clones. It is great bringing ideas up in the forums and seeing that stuff hit the game. Really shows the Devs take what their community has say into consideration.

    I would just like to see the Meta change up a bit. I am not calling for a blanket buff or Nerf to other classes. It would be very awesome to see more classes and builds excel without knocking down other classes. Condi needs a little bit of a Revamp so it could play in a more competitive environments such as fractals CM and more Raid bosses. As of now, its just sort of "has it's glich."

    Chrono is doing just fine but Mesmer condi, as well as some other condi classes, kind of got left for the sandstorm! :anguished:

    It would just be nice to see the Mesmer excel in more places than one or two for that matter... I'm sure you get the idea. In all, the way DPS is structured in this game rewards a few as well as cycling builds out. It needs more stability... It would be nice to get a decent buff or bump in damage as we have had some ruthless nerfs in the past. Let's end PoF on a positive note and enter this new storyline with a good set of builds!!
    P.S. can we do something with staff? It is like obsolete in PvE.... Been waiting to get a legendary staff for a while now!!
    :+1:

    Power mirage is kinda meh, chrono is better for it.
    its not that condi mirage is bad, its actually really good, if not even the best condi dps out there. Problem is, 99% of the fights have anti condi built in, in fractals most fights are small clumps of enemies ( get bursted down so condi sucks ) followed by a bossfight, that has immu phases that preety much clean condis ( fractal 100 for example ).
    raids are different, bosses often move ( for torment ) get extra toughtness ( so power deals less dmg ) or attack rapidly ( so confusion WRECKS them ).
    Im playing exclusively condi mirage in pve ( got half the gear for berserk and half for support Q.Q ) and I have no problems with a group, I have way above average pleb dps, but against power dps on the same level you stand no chance.

    Advantage of cmirage is strong cc ( 2,5s stun on pistol ), 4s daze on f3, cripple and 0,5s daze on torch 5. + if needed signet for 3s stun ( about 10% dps loss for 45s :/ )
    so you bring that in, for the plebs that dunno how to use cc properly.

    TLDR. its not mirage being bad at fractal, its condi thats bad in general for most of the content.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    Mirage specifically isn't bad for fractals, you will get the stink eye for bringing literally any condition class to t4s.

    For condi to be accepted in fractals, it would have to have no ramp time, and at that point conditions are just Power Attacks (With Side Effects for confusion torment and poison). People talk about how condi is a mistake for that reason.

    Conversely it's amongst the strongest condition dps' for raids still due to it hinging on confusion and torment- and there are deifnitely encounters that want condition instead of power, but power-preferred bosses outnumber that.

  • mirage was top of the benchmarks because of bug, mirage is BiS for most condition preferred bosses and even can still be great on other encounters. I don't get this "mesmer was left for the sAnDsToRm"

  • dontlook.1823dontlook.1823 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2019

    @Khyber.1284 said:
    mirage was top of the benchmarks because of bug, mirage is BiS for most condition preferred bosses and even can still be great on other encounters. I don't get this "mesmer was left for the sAnDsToRm"

    haha... I am well aware I'm saying that its current benchmark is at 24-25k. I would like to see it do a bit better. It's my most practiced toon. A lot of what I do is Frac CM and most people want pDPS. Just sort saying can we get more wiggle room in areas of the game where power is nearly always better than condi. I know it is relatively good as a condi dps choice. But in a lot of cases ( i think people are ignoring that) it is knocked out of play by a more desirable class. I was hoping we could get decent buffs going into the release of Build Templates. As of now it's medicore. I beat out a lot of players in fracs with it. But when CM teams get going their intial burst bumps my Mirage out-of-play DPS wise on certain bosses. I'm so not looking for the cope out answer of "Power is just better cause phases." Obviously that's trite and trival since I'm arguing for a revamp of CONDI. As well as more build variety. With stability. Stop nerfing people into the ground create healthy DPS margins.

    More, more. More is always better. Chakata

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dontlook.1823 said:

    @Khyber.1284 said:
    mirage was top of the benchmarks because of bug, mirage is BiS for most condition preferred bosses and even can still be great on other encounters. I don't get this "mesmer was left for the sAnDsToRm"

    haha... I am well aware I'm saying that its current benchmark is at 24-25k. I would like to see it do a bit better. It's my most practiced toon. A lot of what I do is Frac CM and most people want pDPS. Just sort saying can we get more wiggle room in areas of the game where power is nearly always better than condi. I know it is relatively good as a condi dps choice. But in a lot of cases ( i think people are ignoring that) it is knocked out of play by a more desirable class. I was hoping we could get decent buffs going into the release of Build Templates. As of now it's medicore. I beat out a lot of players in fracs with it. But when CM teams get going their intial burst bumps my Mirage out-of-play DPS wise on certain bosses. I'm so not looking for the cope out answer of "Power is just better cause phases." Obviously that's trite and trival since I'm arguing for a revamp of CONDI. As well as more build variety. With stability. Stop nerfing people into the ground create healthy DPS margins.

    24-25k benchmark is against a golem, golem doesnt move so it doesnt get extra damage from torment, golem doesnt attack, so it doesnt get hit by confusion.
    confusion and torment are top 2 damaging conditions for condi mirage, thats why benchmark is low compared to others.
    Thats just it, condi is bad for 99,9% of the content. if you wanna fight with power meta slaves, you gotta become one or you are gonna lag behind, nothing can change that.
    power chrono propably can keep up.

  • dontlook.1823dontlook.1823 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @dontlook.1823 said:

    @Khyber.1284 said:
    mirage was top of the benchmarks because of bug, mirage is BiS for most condition preferred bosses and even can still be great on other encounters. I don't get this "mesmer was left for the sAnDsToRm"

    haha... I am well aware I'm saying that its current benchmark is at 24-25k. I would like to see it do a bit better. It's my most practiced toon. A lot of what I do is Frac CM and most people want pDPS. Just sort saying can we get more wiggle room in areas of the game where power is nearly always better than condi. I know it is relatively good as a condi dps choice. But in a lot of cases ( i think people are ignoring that) it is knocked out of play by a more desirable class. I was hoping we could get decent buffs going into the release of Build Templates. As of now it's medicore. I beat out a lot of players in fracs with it. But when CM teams get going their intial burst bumps my Mirage out-of-play DPS wise on certain bosses. I'm so not looking for the cope out answer of "Power is just better cause phases." Obviously that's trite and trival since I'm arguing for a revamp of CONDI. As well as more build variety. With stability. Stop nerfing people into the ground create healthy DPS margins.

    24-25k benchmark is against a golem, golem doesnt move so it doesnt get extra damage from torment, golem doesnt attack, so it doesnt get hit by confusion.
    confusion and torment are top 2 damaging conditions for condi mirage, thats why benchmark is low compared to others.
    Thats just it, condi is bad for 99,9% of the content. if you wanna fight with power meta slaves, you gotta become one or you are gonna lag behind, nothing can change that.
    power chrono propably can keep up.

    Exactly my point. Thanks. Wish it were a bit different. Also, to note, I am well aware of the golem vs real situations. My real time average is somewhere in the 20k range with some 30 and even 40k here and there. I mostly noticed a drop at Arrk and now after about a ~23k-24k burst I dipp to 15.5k throughout the fight. Dragon hunter and Weaver maintain like 17k to 20k after intial burst. That's why I'm asking them to work with Condi classes. Something like condi stay on but they are invul so we don't always have to start from scratch. We need some kind of gain window else its from the top always with phases... :\

    More, more. More is always better. Chakata

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dontlook.1823 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @dontlook.1823 said:

    @Khyber.1284 said:
    mirage was top of the benchmarks because of bug, mirage is BiS for most condition preferred bosses and even can still be great on other encounters. I don't get this "mesmer was left for the sAnDsToRm"

    haha... I am well aware I'm saying that its current benchmark is at 24-25k. I would like to see it do a bit better. It's my most practiced toon. A lot of what I do is Frac CM and most people want pDPS. Just sort saying can we get more wiggle room in areas of the game where power is nearly always better than condi. I know it is relatively good as a condi dps choice. But in a lot of cases ( i think people are ignoring that) it is knocked out of play by a more desirable class. I was hoping we could get decent buffs going into the release of Build Templates. As of now it's medicore. I beat out a lot of players in fracs with it. But when CM teams get going their intial burst bumps my Mirage out-of-play DPS wise on certain bosses. I'm so not looking for the cope out answer of "Power is just better cause phases." Obviously that's trite and trival since I'm arguing for a revamp of CONDI. As well as more build variety. With stability. Stop nerfing people into the ground create healthy DPS margins.

    24-25k benchmark is against a golem, golem doesnt move so it doesnt get extra damage from torment, golem doesnt attack, so it doesnt get hit by confusion.
    confusion and torment are top 2 damaging conditions for condi mirage, thats why benchmark is low compared to others.
    Thats just it, condi is bad for 99,9% of the content. if you wanna fight with power meta slaves, you gotta become one or you are gonna lag behind, nothing can change that.
    power chrono propably can keep up.

    Exactly my point. Thanks. Wish it were a bit different. Also, to note, I am well aware of the golem vs real situations. My real time average is somewhere in the 20k range with some 30 and even 40k here and there. I mostly noticed a drop at Arrk and now after about a ~23k-24k burst I dipp to 15.5k throughout the fight. Dragon hunter and Weaver maintain like 17k to 20k after intial burst. That's why I'm asking them to work with Condi classes. Something like condi stay on but they are invul so we don't always have to start from scratch. We need some kind of gain window else its from the top always with phases... :\

    this is not too bad of an idea, when bosses get invuln they "save" the conditions they have, so they move over to the next phase.

  • dontlook.1823dontlook.1823 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2019

    Ok this is a little outrageous. I was on a team with a guard that was bursting for 75k then sustained like 30+k. Like its great being good at like 3 bosses. But thats in raids. Can condi get some love? so much ramp up and even with confusion burst it stinks cause in fractals they always CC for impact sigil. so yeah :\ I'm not asking for a nerf but like can we get the old condi version of confusion or something. and then a boost to condi. Power renders most condi builds out cause of burst DPS. the lay their traps and bam already at 17k next thing you they're at 50+k for a short while then go back down to some really high number. Same with ele. pre cast and bam. i've been bringing this issue up for a long time. i really only enjoy mesmer. and as of now its not that good at my favorite content which is fractals. i'd love to see it excel and see those big numbers with my Mirage :angry:

    More, more. More is always better. Chakata

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dontlook.1823 said:
    Ok this is a little outrageous. I was on a team with a guard that was bursting for 75k then sustained like 30+k. Like its great being good at like 3 bosses. But thats in raids. Can condi get some love? so much ramp up and even with confusion burst it stinks cause in fractals they always CC for impact sigil. so yeah :\ I'm not asking for a nerf but like can we get the old condi version of confusion or something. and then a boost to condi. Power renders most condi builds out cause of burst DPS. the lay their traps and bam already at 17k next thing you they're at 50+k for a short while then go back down to some really high number. Same with ele. pre cast and bam. i've been bringing this issue up for a long time. i really only enjoy mesmer. and as of now its not that good at my favorite content which is fractals. i'd love to see it excel and see those big numbers with my Mirage :angry:

    It just comes down to how easy other classes are, to get good dps out of condi mirage you actually have to be REALLY kitten good.
    I have reape friend and all he does is goes into shround off cooldown and deal almost as much dps as me where i so much stuff like shattering -> insta get 3 clones. timings of phantasm->clone conversions. keeping clones for f3 CC during brakebars and other things. other classes jut faceroll.