I'm garbage at 1v1s while roaming. What low-skill builds would you recommend to learn how to fight?

[Jake Orion.2049]

On Necro you typically have to be in their face and not let up on the pressure. You lob so many conditions into them that you literally attrit them to death, but you must be on top of your skill rotation, as well as knowing which skill does what for any type of situation you may be involved in.

I don't play Necro so I'm a dry hole on this class, but perhaps some fellow Necros can give you some further pointers.

[Magolith.9412]

@"Fungling.5742" said:On the necro, what usually happens is one of the following 2...

1) I last about around 10-15 seconds in the fight, their health might be anywhere from 25% to near-full, and then I'm suddenly stuck without cooldowns or life-force with which to shroud. At that point I'm usually dead within another 10-15 seconds. The way I see it, if I've got an enemy down to 25% and I can't finish them off, I'm garbage and need something more braindead easy.

2) I get killed or lose 75% of my health in one rotation. This is a bit less frequent but it does happen sometimes. These ones concern me less -- if I'm outclassed then I'm outclassed, no big deal. It's the fights that I should win but still lose that really eat my lunch.I will admit that usually I go a bit all-in with my abilities, and that means I'm not really in a position to suss out exactly what the enemy is bringing to the fight.

My perspective (mesmer):

I've got a lot of hours in roaming since launch and I can't remember having fought any necros that consistently beat me in a 1v1. They shine when there's others to support them. I think it's due to general lack of in-fight mobility and being more of a class that's "kill them before they eat through my massive HP pool". It takes a lot of skill to be effective w/ a necro in a 1v1 context.

Anyway,

+1 a dire/tb condi mirage. It's relatively easy to be effective while being tanky and still has run-away potential. Doesn't take a lot of effort to learn.

I don't think thief is a good idea. With the amount of damage being thrown around, it takes skill and good reaction time to survive and actually win fights vs competent roamers. At least, more so than with some other classes/builds.

[KrHome.1920]

Dire/trailblazer mirage is still the king of noskill cheese in the game. You can learn this build to oppressive levels in less than 30 minutes, even if you never played mesmer before.

Huge pressure even against builds with lots of cleanses (an amount of cleanses that is enough to fight any other condi build in the game is still way too less to outsustain a condi mirage and his endless hit and run capability).

Huge sustain, kite and escape potential (double energy sigil, endurance food, toughness, vitality, low cooldown ports).

[knite.1542]

@steki.1478 said:Anyone who say that mesmer and engi are easy obviously have no clue how those classes work and die to them way too often to consider them easy (condi mirage can be faceroll though, but that's just one build).

I play both classes. I main holosmith in WvW. It's extremely easy. Tons of passive sustain, decent damage, good mobility, little punishment for mistakes.

Condi mirage is also easy. Several conditions on auto attack. Clone spam and kite for success.

Spellbreaker is another good one but holosmith is definitely easier and stronger with very little practice. The only thing spellbreaker does better is run away.

[Fungling.5742]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Dire/trailblazer mirage is still the king of noskill cheese in the game. You can learn this build to oppressive levels in less than 30 minutes, even if you never played mesmer before.

Huge pressure even against builds with lots of cleanses (an amount of cleanses that is enough to fight any other condi build in the game is still way too less to outsustain a condi mirage and his endless hit and run capability).

Huge sustain, kite and escape potential (double energy sigil, endurance food, toughness, vitality, low cooldown ports).

Is there a specific build you'd recommend? I'm looking at this one right now...

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Ineptitude_Roamer

Not gonna lie, it had me at "ineptitude".

[Shroud.2307]

@"Fungling.5742" said:Incidentally, just a huge thank you for all the responses thus far. I'm learning tons here.

If you're really dead set on playing something "simple", you should try a full Marauder + Durability Spellbreaker. I'm pretty sure even a house cat could have at least moderate success with that build.

Here you go. It may not do a ton of damage, but it's about as forgiving and braindead as it gets. The build basically plays itself with all it's passive defenses. Just keep weapon swapping and Full Countering.

[Doug.4930]

@steki.1478 said:Anyone who say that mesmer and engi are easy obviously have no clue how those classes work and die to them way too often to consider them easy (condi mirage can be faceroll though, but that's just one build).

Well core Engi is one of the hardest classes to play well and takes AGES to master. But holosmith is face roll. Very dumbed down ez mode like most PoF specs tbh. Seeing as core engi is a bit of a joke now in comparison, people just say engie is easy mode because everybody plays holo.

[anduriell.6280]

Darerevil and condi mirage those are smash button kind.

Boonbeast and holo and fun classes but with an stipper learning curve than those two.

[Mortelentus.9236]

Very good advise, thank you.I personally also struggle a bit in 1vs1 unless I come across some class that is extremely vulnerable to my particular skills, but that advise about terrain feels like gold to me. I got to the point that I can already control my heart beat ;) so trying to pay attention to kiting and terrain might be possible by now! ;)I'll have to check out those locations for some practice.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Practice in duels will do a lot more for your skill than playing a faceroll build. Using something that's cushioned just makes it harder to transition to something that isn't when you decide to take the training wheels off.

When you're out and about, try giving a /bow to players you see alone or try joining a dueling circle. They often happen around SMC or near the southern most camp on the borderlands. Most people are happy to duel until your hearts content as long as you're not constantly swapping builds trying to counter people.

A few tips:Always assume your opponent is a genius until proven an idiot.It's better to improve as a player than to be boosted by mechanics.Never underestimate the value of terrain. Proper kiting can make the difference between winning and losing 100% of the time.Losing is not failing. Giving up is."If you're not dying you're not trying."

If you'd like to duel at any time, let me know and I'll happily oblige. I've always been a mediocre player, but I'm an experienced one. So I'm perfectly beatable for you and can teach you anything you need to know. Otherwise, just get out there and keep trying.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Doug.4930 said:

@steki.1478 said:Anyone who say that mesmer and engi are easy obviously have no clue how those classes work and die to them way too often to consider them easy (condi mirage can be faceroll though, but that's just one build).

Well core Engi is one of the hardest classes to play well and takes AGES to master. But holosmith is face roll. Very dumbed down ez mode like most PoF specs tbh. Seeing as core engi is a bit of a joke now in comparison, people just say engie is easy mode because everybody plays holo.

So I guess when you play core engie decent yet is kitten at holo thats either a compliment or an indication there is something seriously wrong with you.

[lare.5129]

if skill is low you can choose easy way:take any buildany class, may be except thief, but the main idea - is ANY classfind any non dead comm, and run WITH squad.

[Doug.4930]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Doug.4930 said:

@steki.1478 said:Anyone who say that mesmer and engi are easy obviously have no clue how those classes work and die to them way too often to consider them easy (condi mirage can be faceroll though, but that's just one build).

Well core Engi is one of the hardest classes to play well and takes AGES to master. But holosmith is face roll. Very dumbed down ez mode like most PoF specs tbh. Seeing as core engi is a bit of a joke now in comparison, people just say engie is easy mode because everybody plays holo.

So I guess when you play core engie decent yet is kitten at holo thats either a compliment or an indication there is something seriously wrong with you.

Pretty much yea hahahaha its impossible to be bad at holo.

[Strider.7849]

By far the lowest skill build in the game for roaming is condi mirage. There's many different ways to build it as well with variance in stat types and weapon choices. While those two things tend to differ, the majority I come across use endurance food with might on dodge and double energy sigils.; Allowing you to essentially kill someone while invulnerable. While it's not fun at all to fight against, it is very effective in 1v2-3's and when mastered you can take on havoc groups solo with its ability to disengage and have safe stomps.

[Fungling.5742]

Ok, so, for the moment, here's the plan...

I've already started making changes to the core necro taking some of thehipone's advice into account.

I'm going to try to change the berserker into a Spellbreaker in line with what Spellofiniquity and Shadowpass suggested, although it might take a while to get the full set of armor going.

I've got one character slot open so I'm going to use it to try out the holo engi suggested by Doug.

And finally, since so many people recommended it, I'm going to change my existing mesmer into a condi mirage. I'm all ears for any build suggestions.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Fungling.5742 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:Practice in duels will do a lot more for your skill than playing a faceroll build. Using something that's cushioned just makes it harder to transition to something that isn't when you decide to take the training wheels off.

While I do understand your point, right now I need something with simple mechanics. I can live with it not being an OP build, just so long as the fights last longer than they are now.

If you'd like to duel at any time, let me know and I'll happily oblige. I've always been a mediocre player, but I'm an experienced one. So I'm perfectly beatable for you and can teach you anything you need to know. Otherwise, just get out there and keep trying.

That's an awesome offer, and I may have to take you up on that. I'm on Mag server if that helps at all.

If you are on Mag, I can duel with ya as well if you would like. Im vs them atm (Im in SF) and always looking for duel partners. Main Off meta DPS, and co main Daredevil and druid (90% of the time in on my mirage tho). Ive also geared up scrapper, renegade and berzerker.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Gonna be honest, to improve your core fundamentals, you need to play something weaker and just practice and die a lot. Spend the time learning the enemies to beat them and look at mistakes in their play to punish them, rather than just mindlessly pressing your own buttons. That kind of stuff. Ultimately, action-based PvP is ideally a culmination of both mechanical prowess and game knowledge, and shouldn't be devoid of either component; PvE is all mechanics, and no mechanics just would imply the game turning into a different genre of game (RTS).

Everyone starts out devoid of both for the most part, as these two things are the "skill" which defines good PvPers. Becoming a better PvP player is reflecting on why you died and what you could have done differently. Sometimes, that may even come down to "I shouldn't have engaged at all, because going into the fight I knew what to expect and knew I would be disadvantaged." Ask yourself what resources you could have utilized. What resources did you expend erroneously, and should have reserved for more important moments, such as wasting a dodge on an autoattack versus the major nuke coming off cooldown two seconds later? Sometimes, you may die because of higher-level skills, like not looking at your surroundings often, or the subtle queues of looking for a small red ring on the ground that's an enemy thief's Black Powder being used for it to stack stealth near you, waiting for a gank. All of this contributes to 'Skill' when roaming.

Most of the easymode builds in GW2 can be played with either limited mechanics, knowledge, or both, and don't actually contribute to you becoming a better player at all as you become more comfortable. They're usually just overpowered numerically or have so much handholding going on that's unique to their builds that the skill doesn't translate elsewhere, and it's why when these same builds are nerfed to be in a fair spot, people who gravitate towards them and depend on those crutches start losing their minds, because rather than working towards improving as a player, they deliberately tried to shortcut the learning process of becoming a better player - and thus proclaim their former class/build has been over-nerfed or that something else is overpowered, despite having deliberately handicapped their actual gameplay skill by pursuing freer wins.

Not that I want to accuse you of anything negative. Losing, especially when you don't know why and feel like you can't win, is frustrating. But I'd like to mention your request for potent low-skill builds is contradictory to the other half of your request, which is trying to get better as a player. Find something you enjoy playing stylistically, win or lose, and then find someone (ideally a group of people who have great understanding of their respective main classes) to help assist you become a better player by learning the art of dueling through practice. I'd recommend for a while working against someone playing your own class or build, because then you can get expert pointers on capabilities or useful nuances others may not be aware of. The community here is usually pretty helpful for helping people get better and work on their weak matchups.

I'm similar to you in that I'd rather play the fight than play the keyboard trying to nail huge rotations. For this, I'd recommend my two favorites to practice with - Core Thief and Reaper - because while they're far from being dominant, they do provide tremendous learning opportunity in their weaknesses, while still providing enough power to win when your skill eclipses that of your enemy's (albeit core thief right now is going to be a challenge to master without substantial investment).

I dunno. Play what's fun and come to terms with the fact that losing is a requirement to get better, and learn from your losses. And if you don't know why you're losing, seek assistance from others, who may be able to help point out why you are.

[Bish.8627]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@steki.1478 said:Anyone who say that mesmer and engi are easy obviously have no clue how those classes work and die to them way too often to consider them easy (condi mirage can be faceroll though, but that's just one build).Hence why most refer to the condi mirage specifically. Or as I like to call it, the noob filter. It is very strong against people that have no idea how to fight mesmers or condi and chances that your enemy fails on at least one of those points is large.

That, and condi mirage really catches people out as there aren't as many as there are power mirage these days. I got totally caught out on my thief last night, treated some semi skilled guy as no threat, put on a load of pressure like I would your average power mesmer, then realised how many stacks I had on myself, sad times.

[anduriell.6280]

@lare.5129 said:if skill is low you can choose easy way:take any buildany class, may be except thief, but the main idea - is ANY classfind any non dead comm, and run WITH squad.

Definitely thief is one of the easiest.Stack stealth + backstab = win.

With DE you only need to dodge. With DD you have more than enough dodges to cap the stealth duration.Even a tank condi thief will do 10k backstabs to tanky target.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@anduriell.6280 said:

Even a tank condi thief will do 10k backstabs to tanky target.

Absolute BS. I know you hate thief but that claim is so ridiculous it's not even funny.

4k power 261 crit damage on my thief with 5 vuln hits 5k on a proper tank that knows how to play better than my refrigerator.

[Fungling.5742]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:...that knows how to play better than my refrigerator.

Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure your refrigerator killed me in the BL ruins three times this afternoon.

That said, after fitting out a condi mirage build, seeking out 1v1s and losing almost two dozen straight, I finally got my first straight-up roaming kill.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Fungling.5742 said:That said, after fitting out a condi mirage build, seeking out 1v1s and losing almost two dozen straight, I finally got my first straight-up roaming kill.Well you know what they say, 25th time's the charm.

[Koen.1327]

You dont learn how to fight on a low skilled build

Lowest skilled build as mentioned before is condi mirage, in addition i would need to mention to use rune of tormenting so you really cant die

[anduriell.6280]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

Even a tank condi thief will do 10k backstabs to tanky target.

Absolute BS. I know you hate thief but that claim is so ridiculous it's not even funny.

4k power 261 crit damage on my thief with 5 vuln hits 5k on a proper tank that knows how to play better than my refrigerator.

I have videos proving otherwise. Your 'proper tank' definition surely includes 100% protection , food -10% damage and rite of the dwarf.

To a 3k armor backstab from a tank condi thief will do 10k.

As I said, you want ez op go thief.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@anduriell.6280 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

Even a tank condi thief will do 10k backstabs to tanky target.

Absolute BS. I know you hate thief but that claim is so ridiculous it's not even funny.

4k power 261 crit damage on my thief with 5 vuln hits 5k on a proper tank that knows how to play better than my refrigerator.

I have videos proving otherwise. Your 'proper tank' definition surely includes 100% protection , food -10% damage and rite of the dwarf.

To a 3k armor backstab from a tank condi thief will do 10k.

As I said, you want ez op go thief.

I would love to see these videos. You have piqued my curiosity good sir and/or madam.

[Turk.5460]

Spellbreaker and Core warrior take the least amount of actual gameplay skill to roam as. Condi Mirage and Condi Daredevil are close contenders, but neither hold your hand as much as Spellbreaker and Core Warrior.