Core necromancer elite skills are terrible

[Jethro.9376]

@LucianDK.8615 said:

@Jethro.9376 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:If you think Flesh Golem bad, then you have no idea about what you are talking about. Its the best of the core set, and very useful.

Just because other core options are trash doesn't make it top tier. But i do agree that golem is an ok option for small scale fights or PvE.

So perhaps you should not decry every elite, when they could shine in other gamemodes beside wvw/pvp. Different purposes and usefulness.

In an PvE environment it all depends on the grp tbh. If you need CC , PL and LF are a bad choice.

With a condi setup PL rarely shines because enemies die to fast for PL to ramp up enough damage to justify the CD (even with MoC traited). Surely the first 3 pulses are most important but in the 1 sec cast + 3 sec for the pulses you could just spam 1 for more condis and the enemy can't run away from it while getting damage from the golem.

Playing a power build PL isn't a good option and 150s CD on LF? Yeah, no.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

lich needs lower cd and its #.2 skill changedplague needs to have a set number of condis that pulse every second and not ramp upgolem needs to be way faster

[Nimon.7840]

For core:In my opinion, golem is the worst skill to chose in pvp modes. Golem does no dmg, has and the charge time seems awful. Plus golem doesn't have much hp and dies very fast.

Plaguelands: useful in spvp to deny enemies from stepping on a node and to deny rezzes. For roaming not that useful only for denying rezzes in 2v1s.

Lich: somewhat useful in some very cheesy builds and at least gives lf per use and a stack of stab.

But overall all of them are pretty bad for pvp, compared to other classes elites. Even sylvari elite is better as it provides invuln

[thehipone.6812]

I kinda like plaguelands in WvW roaming/small group. It nukes a camp quick, so there's that. Vs. other players it gives you the area denial that others have mentioned. There's lots of little tricks. You can drop it on a thief's shadowstep return spot then chase them so they port back into the later pulses. Drop it on chokepoints and then bait people. My favorite use is in outnumbered 1v2 or 1v3 situations, where you pick out the weakest opponent and down them and drop plaguelands on a downed opponent - it can often kill the down and heavily pressure the inevitable rez, allowing you to eventually win the outnumbered fight.

That said, I'd never run lich, and golem is a bit hit or miss with whether it dies before the cc goes off IMO.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

One of Lich Forms biggest issues IMO is the 1 second cast time. Grim Specter would be pretty nice to use if it weren't locked behind a 2 second cast (despite the skill itself only having 3/4 second). Summon Madness could be okay were it not 2.75 seconds of cast time it's locked behind.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I really hope they don't destroy lich like they did plague.

[ZDragon.3046]

PlaguelandsTo be honest is not that bad but yeah its not great like so many other parts of necromancer

• its too slow to ramp up to being a threat. its really not a threat till after the 4th or 5th pulse and because it pulses so slow like all parts of condi necro its damage ramps super slow
• its covers a fixed area that cannot move with the necromancer or at the necromancers command.
• It has no combo field functionality although you think it would have one.
• Its missing the slow condition

Overall its decent but not great

Lich FormIs a bit of a mess. Its a love/hate in my opinion. Necromancers having an elite skill that transforms is not exactly a bad thing how ever the way its delivered is off the mark. I do like some of the idea behind the skill but overall its considerably underpowered when compared to something like rampage with over double the cooldown.Design wise each race should have had its own unique base look when the transform takes place (male and female) by transform i mean more like a kit transform so think like how like holosmith puts on a outfit skin basically in photon forge mode. Something similar but dark and semi lich like that happens on your character for a short duration. Between male and female as well as all the races the skinned look can share some qualities like the armor parts glowing eyes etc etc etc but overall not everyone should become a massive floaty man that plays with your camera and makes you feel slower than normal because its bigger despite moving the same speed.

• The cooldown of this skill is beyond out of date and far too high all on its own which makes the skill feel too punishing to use
• The skills inside the lich kit are not strong enough. Skill 1 is ok for its damage only though, Skill 2 is a joke, Skill 3 roots the caster making it dangerous and clunky to use, Skill 4 is great for end game dps boost only, skill 5 is useful for instantly healing in a pinch but its still pretty lackluster in terms of punishment on a foe and reward on the caster.
• the 15% return of life force on the skill ending is completely unneeded and pointless

Overall its not very good but i do use it in alot of my raid setups for burst dps. Sadly even the cd makes hurt to use here. I pop it use 2 skills and exit it and proceed back to my rotation. Thats about the biggest use for lich form right now imo. Its too punishing to use in pvp / wvw and not good enough to want to maintain use for its full duration in pve.

IF this skill just became a massive selfish dps booster with just a visual effect or skin transform instead of a real transform I would be much happer with it (cough blade and soul warlock soul burn hue hue)

Flesh GolemIs better than it use to be and it is actually useful for a-lot of raid situations where heavy cc damage is needed. The golem can do some of the most cc damage available as a single skill on big hit box bosses. However...

• Like most minions its very clunky and slow
• Its damage is not at all impressive even when you invest traits into it
• In pvp it dies far too quickly and its charge is lack luster compared any other elite that inflicts a cc be it on a single target or area.
• For some reason the charge skill's final hit is the only hit that deals massive damage rather than any hit the golem makes during its duration of the charge, considering the golem does not stop when it hits a target and goes through it, YOU ALMOST NEVER hit your target with the final strike no matter how big its hit box might be.

I think the golem could be very solid if a few QoL changes are done to it but overall as it sits right now its one of the best and most flexible core elites you can take for solo play, group content, and end game content. Its not a very fun or satisfying elite to use but it works.

Personally i would like to see golem charge work more like the warriors bull charge followed by the golem performing a frenzy attack that attempts to strike the knocked down target multiple times for heavy damage.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:One of Lich Forms biggest issues IMO is the 1 second cast time. Grim Specter would be pretty nice to use if it weren't locked behind a 2 second cast (despite the skill itself only having 3/4 second). Summon Madness could be okay were it not 2.75 seconds of cast time it's locked behind.

Pretty much the only 2 skills i use for dps boosting in end game content which dont feel as bad with quickness on cast but the even with quickness transforming into lich is kinda iffy

That said if they break lich down like plague lands we will likely end up with a skill not as good as either one of these combined so im a bit iffy on the subject of changing these days lolSee death magic rework we all waited 5 years for "OOOF"