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Can we be met halfway on quality of life for Chrono? What playstyle/tradeoff do people want?


Daniel Handler.4816

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:I feel like people
massively
underestimate how big a drawback not moving when you dodge actually is. It probably doesn't seem like one in PVP, but in PVE where basically everything throws AOE fields at you all the time it's a huge issue.

I ...honestly forgot PVE was a thing and I am absolutely mortified.

@Daniel Handler.4816 Apologies. This is obviously not as cut and dry as I'd hoped. In PvE, particularly raids, I can see how that would be crippling.

in PVP, though, it remains an egregious issue when paired with condi. I understand your point, but PvP engagements shouldnt have to suffer like that for PVE to be balanced.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:keep in mind that mirage lacks stun removal tools of other classes, war has 2 stunremoves on top of CC immunity in rampage, mesmer has 1 and no stability. mirage cloak somewhatcovers it along with disortion.

Mesmers have several utilities that can break stuns, and one that grants specifically stability. They just dont take them because mirage cloak, mirage mirrors, and distortion remove the need to slot utilities defensively, with the exception of blink.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:people overestimate how good this dodgewhilestuned is, most meta builds have CC like war that lasts 2-3s or longer, cant even cover 1/3 of it with a dodge, its more of a I take slightly less damage during stun, dont forget that it is a trade off in itself, when you dodge during stun, you cant unleas an ambush attack so you lose at it.

Not being able to attack while stunned, even though it uses endurance, isn't a tradeoff for being able to evade while stunned. That argument isn't real. No class can attack while stunned. not having access to an attack because you got cced isn't a drawback particular to any class.

Mirage HAS to take IH, moving dodge while stuned to EM is like removing it compleatly, nobody in their right mid will take for anything other then trolling.

Dont agree with you, regarding pvp. If EM allows you to dodge and break stuns in exchange for damage, that opens up builds for sidenode stalling. If IH doesnt allow dodges while stunned, mirages have to slot utilities more defensively or predict attacks to do heavy damage.

This may have implications in pve, but pvp as it stands right now is kittened because condi oriented mirages running IH have very little counterplay.

you dont get what I mean, mirage cloak is both defensive AND offensive tool. If you use it while stunnes, you give up offensive part ( ambush )Sure I could take stun removing mantra, i wouldnt fear any stuns!, exept that I would die without even eating a stun, wouldnt survive past 1 condi bomb, what other classes have is abilities that do several things, Rampage is insane pressure, mobility and CC immunity. Shake it off covers both CC removeal AND condi cleanse.mesmer has to take 2 utilities to do the same thing.

srsl you remind me of that video Happy something posted, called mirage cancer, while playing warrior, throwing rock that deals 11,1k dmg.while dueling this "cancer mirage" he could afford to afk while being whittled down for 13 sec. didnt die, didnt even take any damage. becouse guess what, condi damage sucks.when i play thief/warr and decide utilities I dont sacrafice ANYTHING, i have everything I need and pick a cherry on top. mirage is the only one of those 3 that has to sacrifice things.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:I feel like people
massively
underestimate how big a drawback not moving when you dodge actually is. It probably doesn't seem like one in PVP, but in PVE where basically everything throws AOE fields at you all the time it's a huge issue.

I ...honestly forgot PVE was a thing and I am absolutely mortified.

@Daniel Handler.4816 Apologies. This is obviously not as cut and dry as I'd hoped. In PvE, particularly raids, I can see how that would be crippling.

in PVP, though, it remains an egregious issue when paired with condi. I understand your point, but PvP engagements shouldnt have to suffer like that for PVE to be balanced.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:keep in mind that mirage lacks stun removal tools of other classes, war has 2 stunremoves on top of CC immunity in rampage, mesmer has 1 and no stability. mirage cloak somewhatcovers it along with disortion.

Mesmers have several utilities that can break stuns, and one that grants specifically stability. They just dont take them because mirage cloak, mirage mirrors, and distortion remove the need to slot utilities defensively, with the exception of blink.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:people overestimate how good this dodgewhilestuned is, most meta builds have CC like war that lasts 2-3s or longer, cant even cover 1/3 of it with a dodge, its more of a I take slightly less damage during stun, dont forget that it is a trade off in itself, when you dodge during stun, you cant unleas an ambush attack so you lose at it.

Not being able to attack while stunned, even though it uses endurance, isn't a tradeoff for being able to evade while stunned. That argument isn't real. No class can attack while stunned. not having access to an attack because you got cced isn't a drawback particular to any class.

Mirage HAS to take IH, moving dodge while stuned to EM is like removing it compleatly, nobody in their right mid will take for anything other then trolling.

Dont agree with you, regarding pvp. If EM allows you to dodge and break stuns in exchange for damage, that opens up builds for sidenode stalling. If IH doesnt allow dodges while stunned, mirages have to slot utilities more defensively or predict attacks to do heavy damage.

This may have implications in pve, but pvp as it stands right now is kittened because condi oriented mirages running IH have very little counterplay.

you dont get what I mean, mirage cloak is both defensive AND offensive tool. If you use it while stunnes, you give up offensive part ( ambush )srsl you remind me of that video Happy something posted, called mirage cancer, while playing warrior, throwing rock that deals 11,1k dmg.while dueling this "cancer mirage" he could afford to afk while being whittled down for 13 sec. didnt die, didnt even take any damage. becouse guess what, condi damage sucks.

I really want to just be misunderstanding the plight of mirage mains, but the matchups I've seen and experienced wouldn't exactly be considered a plight to me.

Shake it off covers both CC removeal AND condi cleanse.mesmer has to take 2 utilities to do the same thing.

It became that way -because- of mirage. It wasn't like that before.Look, I'm pretty tired about yelling into the void about how this is unbalanced. Clearly it will take some careful consideration to fix even if you assume it is such. Tell you what though; add me if you're in NA, lets do a mock fight and then argue further about what is broken and what isn't on the actual game.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:I feel like people
massively
underestimate how big a drawback not moving when you dodge actually is. It probably doesn't seem like one in PVP, but in PVE where basically everything throws AOE fields at you all the time it's a huge issue.

I ...honestly forgot PVE was a thing and I am absolutely mortified.

@Daniel Handler.4816 Apologies. This is obviously not as cut and dry as I'd hoped. In PvE, particularly raids, I can see how that would be crippling.

in PVP, though, it remains an egregious issue when paired with condi. I understand your point, but PvP engagements shouldnt have to suffer like that for PVE to be balanced.

No apologies needed. I would note the person was probably talking about solo open world and not raids. In raids you have people tanking/healing for you. And other classes don't dodge often anyway because of the dps loss. Its more of a concern in solo open world PvE. And majorly a concern in WvW. The problem in in PvE can be addressed using the right skills and weapons. But in WvW you are still beholden to stacking on allies and dodging with them to avoid being covered in condis.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:I feel like people
massively
underestimate how big a drawback not moving when you dodge actually is. It probably doesn't seem like one in PVP, but in PVE where basically everything throws AOE fields at you all the time it's a huge issue.

I ...honestly forgot PVE was a thing and I am absolutely mortified.

@Daniel Handler.4816 Apologies. This is obviously not as cut and dry as I'd hoped. In PvE, particularly raids, I can see how that would be crippling.

in PVP, though, it remains an egregious issue when paired with condi. I understand your point, but PvP engagements shouldnt have to suffer like that for PVE to be balanced.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:keep in mind that mirage lacks stun removal tools of other classes, war has 2 stunremoves on top of CC immunity in rampage, mesmer has 1 and no stability. mirage cloak somewhatcovers it along with disortion.

Mesmers have several utilities that can break stuns, and one that grants specifically stability. They just dont take them because mirage cloak, mirage mirrors, and distortion remove the need to slot utilities defensively, with the exception of blink.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:people overestimate how good this dodgewhilestuned is, most meta builds have CC like war that lasts 2-3s or longer, cant even cover 1/3 of it with a dodge, its more of a I take slightly less damage during stun, dont forget that it is a trade off in itself, when you dodge during stun, you cant unleas an ambush attack so you lose at it.

Not being able to attack while stunned, even though it uses endurance, isn't a tradeoff for being able to evade while stunned. That argument isn't real. No class can attack while stunned. not having access to an attack because you got cced isn't a drawback particular to any class.

Mirage HAS to take IH, moving dodge while stuned to EM is like removing it compleatly, nobody in their right mid will take for anything other then trolling.

Dont agree with you, regarding pvp. If EM allows you to dodge and break stuns in exchange for damage, that opens up builds for sidenode stalling. If IH doesnt allow dodges while stunned, mirages have to slot utilities more defensively or predict attacks to do heavy damage.

This may have implications in pve, but pvp as it stands right now is kittened because condi oriented mirages running IH have very little counterplay.

you dont get what I mean, mirage cloak is both defensive AND offensive tool. If you use it while stunnes, you give up offensive part ( ambush )srsl you remind me of that video Happy something posted, called mirage cancer, while playing warrior, throwing rock that deals 11,1k dmg.while dueling this "cancer mirage" he could afford to afk while being whittled down for 13 sec. didnt die, didnt even take any damage. becouse guess what, condi damage sucks.

I really want to just be misunderstanding the plight of mirage mains, but the matchups I've seen and experienced wouldn't exactly be considered a plight to me.

I don't consider it a plight in PvP. When you are dueling on a side node I don't see the issue. Especially because Mesmers already excel in 1v1 player and 3 illusions situations. I could see how it might seem like they have no tradeoff. Perhaps more PvP split traits need to occur. But altering the mechanic gamewide is a bad idea.

Also back to the topic, the effect Mirage's tradeoff has on build diversity is fine-ish in comparison to other classes. Chrono is at a loss. Where a mirage could simply grimace and play condi with staff or axe and Jaunt while spamming evades, a chrono struggles to cover for no IP and poor slow uptime outside of raids.

They seem to be pushing Chrono as a ranged combo caster, versus Mirage as a more melee and reactionary. Like an ele vs thief. That is fine. But needs more support.

edit: for example if you want to discourage melee you could keep IP off of F1/F2/F3, but restore it to F4.

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I actually feel like reading the elementalist forums after the big staff nerfs, no matter what people say, ANet will balance in a way they see it good, listening to the community would show that someone knows more about the game and they dont want this, they like to live in their own little dream of knowing everything. If ANet would just once listen to people, and by this I mean, listen to people who are saying normal things and not just crying cough3 mirage being OP threads per day cough chrono would be still viable together with other killed/dead specsThey think they can balance something they dont know, its like that I could repair a mechanical clock without knowing how it works.

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@"Nepster.4275" said:I actually feel like reading the elementalist forums after the big staff nerfs, no matter what people say, ANet will balance in a way they see it good, listening to the community would show that someone knows more about the game and they dont want this, they like to live in their own little dream of knowing everything. If ANet would just once listen to people, and by this I mean, listen to people who are saying normal things and not just crying cough3 mirage being OP threads per day cough chrono would be still viable together with other killed/dead specsThey think they can balance something they dont know, its like that I could repair a mechanical clock without knowing how it works.

Funny thing is their nerfs are actually recommended by the community, "the knowledgeable community" that is, not the mesmer one.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@"Nepster.4275" said:I actually feel like reading the elementalist forums after the big staff nerfs, no matter what people say, ANet will balance in a way they see it good, listening to the community would show that someone knows more about the game and they dont want this, they like to live in their own little dream of knowing everything. If ANet would just once listen to people, and by this I mean, listen to people who are saying normal things and not just crying
cough
3 mirage being OP threads per day
cough
chrono would be still viable together with other killed/dead specsThey think they can balance something they dont know, its like that I could repair a mechanical clock without knowing how it works.

Funny thing is their nerfs are actually recommended by the community, "the knowledgeable community" that is, not the mesmer one.

the hash trust is that most people are dumb, really really dumb. so if you listen to majority, you are listening to alot of dumb people.

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today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy? chrono have a good initial burst but can't maintain the dps

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

Edit: even with no slow uptime and Seize the Moment over Chronophantasma I am unable to reproduce your situation on scepter/pistol + GS

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

chrono is on divinerfb is on harrier with mix of giver

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

chrono is on divinerfb is on harrier with mix of giver

Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

chrono is on divinerfb is on harrier with mix of giver

Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3minhealbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30mincondi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out therewhile chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

chrono is on divinerfb is on harrier with mix of giver

Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

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@"SeikeNz.3526"Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

Edit: Power chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range, etc.

condi boon chrono will exceed heal firebrand and supply perma alacrity/quickness. You can also play normal condi chrono and just swap Chronophantasma with StM to exceed power quickness chrono in several situations.
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I mean, you dont even need to go that deep into this to tell the difference, full DPS chrono with chronophantasma+mantra of pain + disenchanter with 100% slow/quickness/alac uptime is doing 37k, from that 3.3k is disenchanter and 1.1 is mantra, so if we mirror this on a chrono with wells, we can safely say it does around 4.5k dps less. Lets take out chronophantasma too so that means halved damage on phantasm´s overal DPS, thats 7.4k for sw5 with chronphantasma, so without its 3.7k, gs4 is 4.3k with chronophantasma so 2.2k without it37k full dps - 3.3(disenchanter) - 1.1(mantra) - 3.7(sw5) - 2.2(gs4) = 26.7keven if we round everything up and such lets say it does 28k(based on my calculation wich is probably not usable), 28k with full DPS traits and the 2 wells + SoI + GWalso since less phantasm you have less clones so less shater, but just lets pretent that my calculations are somewhat accurate, a condi quickbrand with quickness focused traits + quickness mantra does 28.6k SOLO(since the Ashes of something counts to your dps from others). I mean there is a big difference between the 2, and this is if we take that chrono is using full DPS gear+weapon-set without shield or focus, with shield it would be 3.7k less again so now i ask, what is OP?

(the calculations were based on a power chrono benchmark log uploaded 7hrs ago,the fb number is from SC , even tho my calculations are wrong for sure, i cant be far away if i say that SUPPORT fb is atleast doing the same if not better dps than a full dps chrono without disenchanter and mantra and chronophantasma, and we didnt even talked about that fb has fury upkeep+aegis on demand...)A full support oriented chrono who is capable of upkeeping quickness and alac on 5 people is more or less comparable to a full harrier FB who can only upkeep quickness but heals for a ton + gives other useful boons like might, the two specs can not even be compared

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@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

condi boon chrono will exceed heal firebrand and supply perma alacrity/quickness. You can also play normal condi chrono and just swap Chronophantasma with StM to exceed power quickness chrono in several situations.

So you are saying that a full support dps oriented chrono can exceed a full heal oriented support? Well, yeah thats true(on 3 bosses but even there I doubt it), but its like comparing condi druid and power berserker. Also, that chrono build does 7.5k damage, and uses confusion even tho thats broken on some bosses, outside from those you can not count confusion, and on how many bosses can you count burning/bleeding as normal damaging conditions?

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@Nepster.4275 said:I mean, you dont even need to go that deep into this to tell the difference, full DPS chrono with chronophantasma+mantra of pain + disenchanter with 100% slow/quickness/alac uptime is doing 37k, from that 3.3k is disenchanter and 1.1 is mantra, so if we mirror this on a chrono with wells, we can safely say it does around 4.5k dps less. Lets take out chronophantasma too so that means halved damage on phantasm´s overal DPS, thats 7.4k for sw5 with chronphantasma, so without its 3.7k, gs4 is 4.3k with chronophantasma so 2.2k without it37k full dps - 3.3(disenchanter) - 1.1(mantra) - 3.7(sw5) - 2.2(gs4) = 26.7keven if we round everything up and such lets say it does 28k(based on my calculation wich is probably not usable), 28k with full DPS traits and the 2 wells + SoI + GWalso since less phantasm you have less clones so less shater, but just lets pretent that my calculations are somewhat accurate, a condi quickbrand with quickness focused traits + quickness mantra does 28.6k SOLO(since the Ashes of something counts to your dps from others). I mean there is a big difference between the 2, and this is if we take that chrono is using full DPS gear+weapon-set without shield or focus, with shield it would be 3.7k less again so now i ask, what is OP?

(the calculations were based on a power chrono benchmark log uploaded 7hrs ago,the fb number is from SC , even tho my calculations are wrong for sure, i cant be far away if i say that SUPPORT fb is atleast doing the same if not better dps than a full dps chrono without disenchanter and mantra and chronophantasma, and we didnt even talked about that fb has fury upkeep+aegis on demand...)A full support oriented chrono who is capable of upkeeping quickness and alac on 5 people is more or less comparable to a full harrier FB who can only upkeep quickness but heals for a ton + gives other useful boons like might, the two specs can not even be compared

Of the numbers we have, condi support chrono benches higher than condi or power quickbrand. It brings slightly lower personal DPS but more than makes up for that with perma alacrity for the party.

In this situation someone is taking a power chrono and only swapping Chronophantasma for Seize the Moment and reporting 50% less damage than heal firebrand. Heal firebrand has no benchmark, but that seems highly unlikely. Power quickbrand does 10k less than power chrono. Even with no slow uptime you will not be drastically behind a heal firebrand in harriers gear.

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@Nepster.4275 said:

@"Daniel Handler.4816" said:
condi boon chrono will exceed heal firebrand and supply perma alacrity/quickness. You can also play normal condi chrono and just swap Chronophantasma with StM to exceed power quickness chrono in several situations.

So you are saying that a full support dps oriented chrono can exceed a full heal oriented support? Well, yeah thats true(on 3 bosses but even there I doubt it), but its like comparing condi druid and power berserker. Also, that chrono build does 7.5k damage, and uses confusion even tho thats broken on some bosses, outside from those you can not count confusion, and on how many bosses can you count burning/bleeding as normal damaging conditions?

In no situation should a power chrono that has only swapped Chronophantasma with Seize the Moment be doing 50% less damage than a heal brand. Unless for some reason you are deciding to run scepter/pistol and diviners.

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