Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Let's Talk About WvW Balance


Cal Cohen.2358

Recommended Posts

I saw revenant hammer 2 get a rework/nerf because of WvW, but that also changed the way it worked. Instead of the cascading slams going towards a target, it now shoots in a weird off-center line that doesn't go toward a target if you're strafing. I don't WvW but now my hammer 2 doesn't work as well as it used to.

Can you give back the damage it used to have in PvE? And please revert whatever change made the aiming all wonky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 399
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

give all stunbreaks 2 stacks of stab for 1 sec, give more classes reliable access to important boons like stab (classes can still be the master of certain boons), remove all cone attacks (makes you choose who to help, guard mantras prime example), give all classes unique party buffs (superspeed for example), give ranger and mesmer more aoe capability, cap retal procs to 5 per sec, give self and commanders ability to prioritize combo fields and finishers, buff combo fields and make them integral to wvw again

guard - burn guard is too much but pls don't destroy it (scepter 2 main culprit), buff scepter auto, buff duration of dh f3war - warriors cunning +50% too high, tactics sustain ridiculous but w/e, warbanner cd too highrev - ventari needs a stunbreak, maybe put a block on dwarf elite and a cdrang - make celestial avatar 10 target, make longbow pierce by default, soulbeast stance share 10 target, traps 10 targeteng - reduce mortar travel time, make mine field remove 5 boons from 5 targets (also clump the mines closer together pls and ty)teef - make rending shade an aoe boon rip, give all rifle skills pierce when kneeling, nerf rifle 4 to 360 range to prevent endless kitingmes - make restorative mantras heal on activation (so works for charges too), bring back the glamour blind trait that blinded anyone that crossed a glamour (unlimited targets, great anti zerg build), put in a trait somewhere that doubles all boon rip, alls well that ends well buff healing coefficient by a lot and make wells 10 targetele - make staff 3-5's 10 target (not fire), give scepter more cleave, reduce glyph of renewals cd to 40 sec, make powerful aura 10 target, replace might on tempestuous aria with 2 sec of resist, stone heart 3 sec party buffnec - give support wells 10 target, reduce lich cd to 90, make plaguelands pulse a set number of condis per sec (blind and burn included), reduce signet of undeath cd to 90 sec

with more skills splits incoming I think it would be cool to be able to set the special forces training area golem to pve, pvp, or wvw and have an armor slider (maybe start at 2k armor and have multiple choice like now every 500 armor up to 5k)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bloodlust presence of keep and claim stats. any bonuses like these unless food has got to go. it benefits the bigger team too much.

also ensure population of each server is not less than 50 as a total on all maps. getting overwhelmed with 5 only versus too many is disheartening.

these are it in my eyes. the two most important issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I miss playing the old staff ele which seems to have been long made irrelevant. Some of the comments already made re: combo fields seems right to me, and plays into what made staff ele satisfying. Teamwork was needed to drop the correct fields and blast them. Casting meteor on a crowd felt great, and if you were willing to take a few chances you could cause havoc with a well placed static field or earth 4. There have been so many nerfs... I could go back further and wish for meteor/tornado to be a thing again but that might be asking for too much...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking generally I would like to see AOE type attacks focus much less on doing damage and more on applying boons/heals or support or impairing type conditions (cripples, immobs chills etc). The single largest sources of damage should be singular 1v1 attacks. This means dodges/blocks armor plays a much larger role in defense.

Overlapping AOE that hits multiple targets while applying ever more damage just dumbs down everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just My Opinions, Been Playing 5 years, (ALL IN WvW) Play every Class, I know these are some crazy big ideas, but MAYBE WE SHALL BE HEARD AFTER ALL THESE YEARS./ SALUTE @Cal Cohen.3527And Yes I own PoF and HoT and would like to see a WvW re-launch.

  1. Roll Back Gear Stats and Elite Specializations to Pre-Fall 2014, keep current traits for vanilla specs.
  2. Create New Stats Sets that do not Power Creep WvW and introduce
  3. Release Alliances in full.
  4. Rebalance skills and Traits for HoT Elite specs with “test” weekends
  5. Reintroduce HoT Elite Specs Back to WvW
  6. Balance PoF Specs for WvW again with “test” weekends
  7. Reintroduce PoF Specs Back to WvW

In the above incorporate ideas, in general, I have had

  1. Make fields great again
  2. Make finishers great again
  3. Make Conditions Specific to a spec or class with 1 damaging condition, one soft cc, one hard cc of a type.
  4. Make reapplication of Conditions higher for single target skills with less damage and much lower for multi-target skills using longer cooldowns, or only apply damaging conditions on a “Final Charge”system with a cap of 10 for damaging conditions.
  5. Get rid of Gear types from PvE, make critical hit chance 100 % across the board
  6. Make Fury counter Soft CC and Stability only counter Hard cc
  7. Make Damaging conditions and CC on separate bars.
  8. Make Condi Clear, clear Damaging conditions only; make it back to the level pre-Hot where one skill normally cleared one condition for your group maybe 2 with shout runes.
  9. Make all Stunbreaks Clear hard CC and Immobilize
  10. Revert to old Stability and reduce the amount of its output in skills.
  11. Make Specializations, specialize in certain boons, but NOT ALL OF THEM, and if they give more than 3, the time should be very short with high uptime or very long for less uptime.
  12. Make Vulnerability at a lesser amount and add it to all conditions in some form and remove it from being its own thing.
  13. Remove Boon corrupt and make it into boon rip across the board.
  14. Make things like herald boons pulsing into charges and give boons on charge 1 then damage on 2nd with larger boon.
  15. Make Scourge a Support class and be Barrier and boon rip class like it should have been in the first place.
  16. Make FB tomes Less powerful and in turn, reduce the amount of time it takes to go into them make tome 3 do physical damage/tank to balance it from being so much all in on support as a role.
  17. Make every class have a way to be a zerg class, a small group class, and a roamer class. I wanted soul beast to be a Melee support class with the stances so bad, but the stances just couldn't take FB but with maybe 10 man stances and traited for 200% time on allies with a 600 radius; maybe?<--- things like that to get it to have a strong place and do something no other elite spec. could have with all the power creep.
  18. Give Heal Rev. the Scrapper treatment in WvW ( gyros to tablet).
  19. Make Chrono Into a boon ripper with wells etc. to give more utility to it after all the nerfs.
  20. Make AOE’s Smaller the more damage they do; lava font should be skill 5, and meteor shower should be skill 2 AOE size regardless of cast time. This would give you a chance to dodge higher damage skills and lesser for more damage.
  21. If you are over 900 range away from your target, the damage should have a lower return. Yes, you can hit someone from 1500 away but it should hit like a mace one on minstrel FB no matter what gear;(wet noodle).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Ok I Did It.2854" said:

Also any class that can instant kill you from invis, or have the ability to nearly down you, go invis before you can retaliate, and they come back from invis to kill you, this is a fundamentally broken mechanic in the game and needs overhauled, if you are going to allow near perma invis classes, then make it then do 50% less damage from invis, and give every other class a way to remove said invis, to even it up.

WvW needs completely broken down and rebuilt from the ground up when it comes to skill balance, the current format cannot be balanced, without throwing some classes out of the game mode completely, and making others completely dominate. Just look at the recent change to Necro, they ruined it in open world PvE and made it even more deadly in WvW, but that concept has went over them completely, it needed to be toned down slightly in WvW and slightly buffed in open world ( think raids / high end fractals ) but that wasnt done, even after the patch and people complained its been ignored, what about Warriors doing 40k damage with a rifle!

But ill add i dont honestly have high hopes for this, alliances where announced nearly 2 years ago, we heard in August that they would talk to us in a couple of months about them, and its been radio silence since then, skill balance now cannot save WvW alone, it seems we only ever want to have discussions about these problems but never get around to fixing them or when they think they fixed it, they miss the mark by a mile.

I hope for the sake of this game mode, this new dev gets to communicate with us, and can actually get WvW back on track, but we've seen this before, we get a few comments followed by 6-8 months of silence.

I totally agree with this too, your first paragraph also fundamental level but falls into different category which is roaming, my post is about the zerging fundamental.Before it was 1 party will consist Firebrand-Firebrand-Herald-Scourge-Scourge/SpellbreakerNow since scrapper got more usefull it replace the 1 Firebrand become: Firebrand-Scrapper-Herald-Scourge-Scourge/Spellbreaker

No matter what it is the party always consist those 4 class, Sometimes even Herald and Spellbreaker you don't need much only a few, the core of whole thing is Scourge and Firebrand. Try to go 1 party without Firebrand, that party usually will die more because no stability provider, get CCed at 1st engage, usually the Commander will say "Play more careful on engage you got no FB" and if we lack Scourge the Commander will say "Can someone swap to scourge? we lacking damage." though I believe what he means is the damage plus the ability to corrupt boon which is more dangerous than boonstrip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  1. Thief should not have the ability to port anyone in. Get rid of the portal. Mesmer should be the only one with a portal.
  2. Thief stealth time is way to long. They are now able to nearly perma stealth. And with the addition of the portal you spend way too long chasing after them.
  3. Scourge road of death needs to be addressed and nerfed massively. They apply too many condis way too fast to too many targets. Reduce the range and how many boons they can corrupt as well.
  4. Warrior invulnerability needs a down tick.
  5. Pulls need to be more line of sight based. Too many times have I seen people pulled out of a tower or keep when they are on the stairs down below the wall.
  6. Ranger is not broken. Too many people just don't know how to fight one. The unkillable claim should go to the warrior invuln. Rangers die fast. No one wants rangers in their zerg but for some reason but them claim they are over powered(making you think you would want one in your zerg - go figure). The only ones complaining are the ones who can't fight them.

Enough for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I quoted another guy but I thought it was time to put my 2 cents in the hopes that anyone would listen. Kind of a last shot type of deal in a game where I have found joy commanding and leading since year 1. I really do not care about credibility but seems some think its necessary to get a point across.

  1. Commanded and followed for the infamous SFR win over VZ in year 1
  2. Main mag commander after Season 1 when i transferred
  3. 5 years leading a open field fight guild and gvgs. (not the best but yes we gvgd)
  4. Main mag commander for the return of mag beating BG

First any anet devs left need to go to each server EU and NA and take a look at WvW numbers, not builds, not siege, mounts. Pay attention to prime time and off times. The main imbalance in this game comes from off hours or lack off for almost all servers. Your game has died at least for NA and it is time to realize this and combine EU and NA which is very possible.Second, everyone talking about builds. Players make metas not anet we will alwasy find a way to tweak a meta to the best of our fighting ability. That being said the current meta depends on to much support b/c of to much damage. If you look at older metas damage was a team sport not 1 guy dropping 50 CORs in a group this is something that needs to be addressed. WvW is supposed to be a team effort yet you took the team out of it and put it in the hands of a few.Third, mounts they really are not needed. Gliding is enough. This takes a lot away from fighting. People now run from fights instead of standing there ground. Even with the spear thing. WvW is about fighting and objectives. Forces players to learn to fight or they can leave.Fourth, EOTM. I have said it since day 1 it is the worst thing you could have ever done. creating a whole other WvW scenario helped destroy WvW a long with drastic meta changes (hot) make EOTM uplvl only and get your people back into WvW.Fifth, Why is red bl still here? Not 1 player ive ever talked to enjoys it. It s map designed for pve and pve only. Rework the current maps and get rid of it.

Remember Metas will always change with all fight groups. Listen to those that actually do the fighting not sitting in towers. Listen to Roamers who actually scout for commanders and listen to people who actually play WvW. You have your work cut out for ya most of the old regime has left but one thing they always say is gw2 still has the best fight mechanics of any mmo game. Listen to that and they will return. Good luck and i hope the best

SnoopysRevenge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:So how about ANET decides what the TTK (Time to Kill) should be in WvW, under various situations, and start from there? Once you folks agree on a picture of what that looks like, you'll know right off what needs fixing.

This is very much what I was talking about for the long-term, and one of the things we want to gather feedback on through this discussion. It's less about the 25% or the 15% for any given skill and more about defining what the power level should be, then adjusting all skills and traits to fit into that paradigm.

How will you discover where that power level should be?

Do you have a Beta WvW test environment? Where several hundred players can try out proposed adjustments (without losing their current server affiliation)? Every adjustment should be seriously tested prior to implementation.If you don't have such Beta servers for testing, then the game world is your Beta test environment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:What outliers do you see in the current meta? Then think about the big picture: What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed?

cmc

ok so a few things

  1. AoE Spam. its nothing new, but AoE is now alot more deadly. and this directly leads to problem #2. as well as extremely limiting builds, as most single target builds do less than AoE spam. lowering the range or dmg of some of those AoEs would stop it being an AoE mess.. or limit how many AoEs can affect you at once (say a max of 5 at a time. no joke, this would make a major difference already)
  2. walls in WvW are NOT valuable to the defender. due to the range and damage of aoe spam, going on the wall is death. the only value a wall provides is slowing the enemy to give you time to get to the structure. compare this to when game came out, where AoE was alot lower dmg wise, and the only concern you had for being on wall was a scorpion wire. back then walls provided defenders with an advantage of seeing the enemy, longer range(bows), and able to back out at any time. making walls have a use to the defender would be nice for actually using them.
  3. Toughness feels useless. ignoring the fact conditions IGNORE it, even vs crit builds, toughness just isn't enough to avoid being 1 shot. so no one bothers with it, and instead everyone goes max dmg as toughness wont help you. vitality has a use for tanking some condi dmg, but toughness just isn't a stat that (even if you main into it) will feel at all useful in WvW. maybe redoing just how much dmg resistance you get for a max toughness build.....or having some condi resist for toughness(thats not affected by armor. just toughness). and yeah...it kinda sucks when a max Knight build(max toughness) warrior. will still be taking 8k to 12k per hit from meteor showers. which somehow feels the exact same as a 0 toughness build for all the good it does.
  4. conditions have ONE defense, resistance. but with spellbreaker's elite an other boon strips, plus how rare this boon is, its not something you usually have. a scourge + spellbreaker is basically a perfect combo, no counter other than having more of these 2 than the enemy. when you see burn dmg of 2k per pulse.....its a fast death (and according to people, you can get that up to 8k a tik(if this is true...god help your condi cleanse you gonna be dead on the first proc). with no way other than a condi cleanse...hope you got a backup once it procs again). this could partially be solved by the above toughness buff, but other solutions would be toning down some of hte condi dmg (8k fire proc is not fair in any way. specially as, according to facebook, the skill that uses it is often hard to notice)
  5. while range projectiles isn't dead, its defenitly taken a major backseat due to how mobile everyone now is, how many blocks, dodges, and reflects there now are, and with ranged AoEs being unblockable or non reflectable. not sure how to fix this per say, but fixing walls would be a nice step. and for longbows and rifles, having a way to counter warclaws from closing the distance with ease. or making spellbreaker shields smaller so they stop covering such a huge area.

those would be a start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"arenta.2953" said:

  1. walls in WvW are NOT valuable to the defender. due to the range and damage of aoe spam, going on the wall is death. the only value a wall provides is slowing the enemy to give you time to get to the structure. compare this to when game came out, where AoE was alot lower dmg wise, and the only concern you had for being on wall was a scorpion wire. back then walls provided defenders with an advantage of seeing the enemy, longer range(bows), and able to back out at any time. making walls have a use to the defender would be nice for actually using them.

    So what, the zerker necro staff did not exist on release? Not to mention you could barely be near walls due to certain pre-balance arrowcarts.

Walls have a use and you stated it perfectly - its there to delay the enemy. Its there so that scouts can call out and so that players can arrive and fight each other. This is the core gameplay of WvW. When you try to hinder that... Well we already know what happens, because it DID happen. It slows WvW to a crawl and it forced Anet to rebalance siege costs and objective strength just to keep the gameplay going. If anything siege is still lacking, such as trebs being to costly in supply for their damage and rate of fire compared to catapults.

This thread really makes me fear for the future of WvW but I guess it cant get much worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hi @"Cal Cohen.2358"

I'd like to request something simple:

Remove the stacking duration for any stealth.

Stealth and while stealthed put the player in combat

Deadeyes can no benefit from stealth but instead it is transformed in longer durations of Camouflage https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Camouflage as to avoid the vertical porwercreep.

It is ridiculous how much mobility, range, damage and stealth that class has and how much toxicity brings to the game mode.

Everytime i'm forced to fight one of those it makes me quit the game in disgust for some days.

The same as the changes to the shades made the game healthier and more enjoyable , the urgent need to nerf stealth across the board is very much needed too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it would be a good Idea to rework all skills that are totally or almost useless in wvw like ranger spirits, warrior banners, engi turrents.

Also Ranger was always a meme in wvw for beiong useless, but with the stanceshare soulbeast it is the best candidate for competing with the support firebrand. Maybe both builds can be bakanced to be equally strong. Giving a tempest shout groupstability (like on aftershock) would make it another good competitor for the support position.Give every Class some kind of passive or skill for 10 players so that everybody want to have this class at least every tenth player. Maybe balancing all support related skills around 10 players would be a good Idea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.) Both Boons and Condis are too effective.

This has been truth for years, but with power creep it has gone only worse. Both are designed to fight pve mobs. If you do 30k dps on a static mob, that's cool because it has millions. But players on the other hand?

Boon uptime isn't a big deal, nor is condi duration. You should reward people working as a group. But the boons and condis themselves need to be toned down (eg, might should give less power, protection, should give less damage reduction). Otherwise you are always balancing around people having -33% damage reduction and those numbers will always be bloated.

2.) Crowd Control is way too effective.

People say stability is too important. Well, it's important because this game has an obsession with knocking your character around like a ping pong ball. Honestly, what is the fun of being locked down for half an hour? Look at the weapon sets. There's CC everywhere! People have been asking this for years, but diminishing returns?

3.) Downstate needs to be nerfed.

Oh look, I'm outnumbered 5:1 but I can gun down this errant scourge. Never mind, those firebrands just hug him and he's back up again!

MI in particular is stupid and also pretty much never leaves any respectable Support Guardian's bar for a reason. It should be nerfed by a good deal, and all res traits and skills need to be looked at. Stop listening to the "ermagawd I wanna be a healer" crowd. We just end up with this nonsense. I mean yes, downstate can encourage teamwork and good communication but at this point we've devolved to it being a total carry.

4.) Mounts still need more nerfs.

We're almost there, but why should the person on the mount have the initiative of a gap closer and a damage skill? I think Battle Maul needs to do very little damage but keep the stomp ability.

5.) Projectiles are screwy

It goes both ways. From arrows hitting way further than they should to them being a liability due to the abundance of reflects. Projectile attacks need to be rethought.

6.) Stealth

While I don't consider it that big of a deal, consider that stealth is generally penalized in pvp because of capture point contribution which is a factor that is downplayed in WvW.

7.) 10 person boons.

Please get that raid crap out of here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pre HOT the game felt really good after HOT everything seems going downhill.The current powercreep, condition spam, boonrip, boonspam, skillspam, in general the game lost the meaning of landing your skills and timing it, playing around enemy cds and etc.. to a degree, im not exactly sure how exactly you can balance in wvw terms the amount of combinations of traits, gear, runes, sigils, foods and utilities with so many professions and 3 spec each there will always be something that people will complain about.Test server will help to get those balance changes polished and tested before releasing, im not sure why this game doesnt have one.

Just throwing few ideas here :

  1. Each spec can have its own base attributes stat wise.
  2. Each spec can have its own traits instead of mixing with the core ones, so that you will balance worry free specific specilization.
  3. Some sigils and runes and armor stats should be changed and by changed i dont mean nerfed, but balanced around what can be used for what and why the synergy there is so strong.
  4. Remove the Guild Auras and Presence of the Keep and replace them with some other bonus that doesn`t include stats in it.
  5. Make solo and small scale roaming great again, the game was used to be full of roamers now there are very very few which is sad in a way.
  6. Mounts i have to say this is by far the dumbest thing from my point of view introduced to WvW, the ability to have such mobility on any profession is just plain dumb.
  7. Make GW 2 great again.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My top concerns are mostly an end to the endless spamming which before HoT came out they nerfed retaliation which we really need those anti spam measures back which also in pvp used to be usable with strategy there too but hasn't in years. Also limiting the size of squads and promote more people to start commanding instead of just one guy for a single guild or server. Also a re-work or some kind of counterplay to things like watchtower and mark/revealed/detected crap with that people have had plenty of options to do it before but its now just a passive thing since they won't adjust their builds to fight a thief when it becomes necessary but is the purpose of builds is to outplay or out fight the enemy and remove the passive nonsense. Plus watchtower should require something like supply to keep it operational and not just some absolute thing that makes it where no one will touch a t3 tower with watch tower. Also implement some kind of stat rating so that people who are just loading up bots cannot enter wvw there are quite a few pve guilds that are going into wvw these days and you can tell if you res them from double downed and takes a nano second that they have either no gear or very little and should not be able to enter competitive like that. Which are a lot of the people crying for nerfs when it has nothing to do with the class they are fighting its just anything that can do any amount of damage can instantly double down them.

Overall just a lot of horrible decisions have literally killed the game mode. There are less people now than during HoT's release and that felt even dismal then its pretty much going into a game wide funeral except for the role players they are getting by in divinities reach.

Edit: Forgot one other thing a lot of our small scale combat has been destroyed over the years and its kind of time to bring some things from being unplayable in wvw to being playable like d/d for thief and ele for instance you can play them but the amount of effort you have to use is substantially more than what you should have to do its kind of like handicapping yourself to play the way you want to play which is against the way gw2 has advertised itself for years but is now just a lie basically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please do anything to core engi? Holo can take another nerf no problem, but core engi traits are just sad, especially Firearms and Explosives. Give us some options for builds without elite specialisations. Move some damage from Holosmith to Explosives/Firearms. Both trait lines are so convoluted I struggle to pick a combination when try to build craft.

  • Explosives buff nades, bombs, bleeding and some raw damage.
  • Firearms buff burning, condis... bleeding too? And crit dmg so raw damage as well? On top of that grandmasters there make so little sense I'm not even gonna try to analyze them. Most of the line buffs condi dmg but grandmaster trait grants additional power damage based on conditions? Huh?

Bring some identity to those lines, move kit-specific traits to Tools, raw damage and crit-related traits to Explosives and make Firearms a condi line.

And for god's sake do something to retaliation damage, granades and Flamethrower are impossible to use in WvW, the former can deal 5000 damage to engi with single autoattack only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi again,

I wanted to swing by with an end-of-day update. I’ve really enjoyed seeing the community’s passion on balance and the overall state of the game. There were other topics that were brought up today, and we will create more specific discussions in the future. I will continue to monitor and gather feedback from the forums so keep posting your thoughts as you have them.

Going forward we want to keep our mission statement of being more communicative and including the community. So here are our next steps on the balance front:

There will be more posts going into further detail about our balance plans for the next patches. This will include a list of targeted changes for the next balance update as well as our high-level philosophy and vision for the more impactful patch coming later. We will continue to communicate with the community early and often in order to gather feedback on these changes, which will allow us to have a chance to iterate.

From the whole systems team, thanks everyone for your passion for competitive gw2 and the feedback you provided today.

I'm seriously hoping against hope that this will not end like the "Collaborative Development Initiative". Remember that?

Yeah...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

this is nice ! and we welcome all the balance changes and the wish to fix things ! game is really unbalanced right now ! but this is something important for me to ask! what about PVE balance? i;ve seen post about WvW balance and PVP balance but the PVE really do need balance aswell.right now theres an awful state of the game that there are hanful of classes that are meta and the rest not worth runing for pve.and as much as i understand the pvp balance and wvw balance are critical cause people are competetive there the pve got some aspect of competetive in the raids and fractals and the balance there is not less important or broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I don't do much big group PvP and I don't really have much to add to that discussion butWhy is Reaper, which is supposed to be excellent in group fights with its Shouts, melee-oriented shroud and cleaving greatsword, outclassed in melee by Scourge, which are supposed to be ranged area denial?

Someone said earlier that Scourge does too much. It absolutely does. I don't mind it throwing out a Shade and crapping all over a group, that's its shtick, but it seems to do just about everything better than a Reaper when a Reaper should imo be a big scary pusher.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...