10 target support skills: how they work (subgroups)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

scroll down to subgroups. I had no idea it worked like this, maybe this can help others. basically it says that all support skills target your party and subgroup (a subgroup is a 10 man party) first, then squad, then people outside your squad. so if you're running a 20 man squad, it makes more sense to make 2 10 man parties then 4 parties.

anyone know if party is actually first, then subgroup? looking at the wiki it puts the two together.

[XenesisII.1540]

Subgroup/party are technically the same thing in a squad, while you can have more than 5 in a subgroup it still hits only those in your subgroup in range first, then it hits squad and down the list after. If you really want focused support it's still better to make the 5 person subgroups(especially a melee front line group to make sure they get hit more often) as support spills over to others anyways after.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Subgroup/party are technically the same thing in a squad, while you can have more than 5 in a subgroup it still hits only those in your subgroup in range first, then it hits squad and down the list after. If you really want focused support it's still better to make the 5 person subgroups(especially a melee front line group to make sure they get hit more often) as support spills over to others anyways after.

same thing huh? makes sense, thanks.how is a standard 5 person party better? you can't control who gets what with that setup, so some people might get something twice while someone else might not get it at all.

[XenesisII.1540]

Cause most skills have a 5 target limit in giving out boon and healing. So it's better to make a 5 person group to set priority on who gets hit with the boon first, and if not all are in range it spills over to the rest of the squad anyways, it's not wasted. But lets say you're running a 5 melee 5 ranged group, you may have range who run more back line and don't need to get hit with say stability, but if they run up front at the wrong moment they may take away one of your melee as a target of the boon.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Cause most skills have a 5 target limit in giving out boon and healing. So it's better to make a 5 person group to set priority on who gets hit with the boon first, and if not all are in range it spills over to the rest of the squad anyways, it's not wasted. But lets say you're running a 5 melee 5 ranged group, you may have range who run more back line and don't need to get hit with say stability, but if they run up front at the wrong moment they may take away one of your melee as a target of the boon.

ahh right right cuz party and subgroup are the same thing. gotcha. well damn that's kinda unfortunate.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

If you want a more in-depth discussion on this topic just go here and read this whole thread. It's mostly me just challenging the 5 man setup, in order to get people to explore the reason 5 man subgroups are better, forcing people to respond with something other than "Well it's because it's meta."

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/83138/best-way-to-organize-squad-and-subgroups/p1

There really is no "best configuration" when it comes to organizing subgroups in your squad. There is a single objective reason why most favor 5 man sub parties, and that's due to how radius size decreases to the size of an infinitesimal point the closer the squad get to one another, while 5 man subgroups (or any division of subgroups less than the number of targets an ability can apply its effects) will maintain it's actual descriptors radius, even when a squad is balled together.

However, choosing larger parties isn't so bad because healers can heal one another and it helps boost sustain by keeping healers alive, rather than having them die due to not receiving heals or boons from other healers, simply because they have no chance to receive them because of subgroups.

Usually, my guild squad will run lines (5 man subgroups) when we have enough sustain in each party...but if our sustain is low, i'll call out for merging these subgroups...because it never makes sense to have players not receive heal from anyone just because their subgroups don't have healers.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:snips

I read some of that link. it would be really awesome if party was separate from subgroup - the first 5 are the party and the second 5 are the subgroup. that's what I thought that meant at first. its too bad, it would make distributing 5 and 10 target buffs so much easier. if healing overflow is a thing, would be sweet if boon and buff overflow was also in the game. also changing the healing overflow to 50% hp instead of 100% hp would be very helpful.

[Sovereign.1093]

if majority of your support skills are 10 man, then making it 10 man per squad is enough. if your support skills hits 5, then a party of 5 is the thing.

blasts only hit 5 targets.

i tried to setup my team as 15, per sub squad. it didnt work out bad.