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Let's Talk About PvP Balance


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@viquing.8254 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said :Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said :: Evade while CCed is unfair.

  • Mirage (Their Condi application and power are fine, but their ability to produce an absurd amount of visual noise and bypass being CC'd through their dodge needs to stop. Give them clones or the ability to break though cc on dodge, not both)

Again where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).

@Crab Fear.1624 said :Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.Damage on dodge who can be rupted, blocked with obvious animation and max 4k damage (average 2k5.) often on the form of damage over time seems finer than what exist on someone else.

@ZDragon.3046 said :If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.In that case I demand to have ambush on shatter instead of on evade then we can talk about no counterpart.I would actually welcome that change if clones only ambushed by using shatter command. IT gives the Mirage unique shatters and a trade off from core mesmer.Put ambush attacks with bonus effects on shatters and remove infinite horizon from the game all together. Clone ambush attacks are now balanced by shatter cooldownsThis is PROBABLY how it should have been from the get go.Mirage cloak shouldnt be doing so much when comboed with a trait like IH while providing freedome to cast without interruption.I'm not sure you imagine the survival buff of not having to evade to do damage and the obvious "mesmer op unkillable" post who will come with this change.And sorry but this is a gameplay change suggestion as opposed to a counterpart to highlight that I dunno why you biased your necro comparison while mixing the two when comparing to mesmer.Not to say that shatter will provide more overall ambush than current dodge uptime can...

@mortrialus.3062 said:I've played plenty of power mesmer, both core and mirage. Losing Mirage Cloak while CC'd isn't going to break Mirage. Mesmer is pretty spoiled for stunbreak options between Blink and Signet of Midnight. And even plenty of nonstunbreak options like Phase Retreat, Jaunt and Illusionary Ambush to move you out of danger while stunned and even things like F3 and F4, Mantra of Distraction can save you if you end up stunned.

False Oasis is just a biiiit too good of a heal for the sheer utility of it. It can be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak making it nearly impossible to interrupt, which is bad enough. But it grants both an evade through a mirror and enough vigor to get a bar of endurance after the 5 seconds the heal spends ticking. So using mirage Cloak isn't even a real investment of resources to ensure the heal happens. Shave a bit of the healing off because it is a bit too potent for all it's utility, 15% to 20%. Extend the cast time so everyone has an opportunity to interrupt it even with Mirage Cloak. It'd still be an amazing healing skill.

Dodge while stunned and Elusive Mind are fundamentally toxic interactions. And losing Dodge while stunned won't dumpster mirage like losing Illusionary Persona did for Chrono.I don't know that now power mesmer use staff, didn't see that since vanilla shatter.List me the class heal who can be rupt without be covered.Again, and for the moment nobody answer me :Where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).Once you prove me that someone can perform with this, we can talk about reworking mirage cloak.

You can evade while performing other actions.

You seem to be leaving that out.

The bonus of being able to do it while cc'd minus daze should have always been tied only to EM.

If you choose EM, your dodge is also a condi clear and stunbreak, at a hefty price

If you choose IH, your damage is boosted, so if you get cc'd you should pay the price like everyone else.

It really is that simple.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:The problem is that in PvP there are professions that do too many things with a single build and are Firebrand, Holosmith and SB.

Would anyone explain to me why pets should get nerfs?

Because when a rock gazelle can legit smack you for 10k, on top of all of your high damaging strikes to add, it tends to get a bit unfair. I mean, why should that be a thing at all? hitting 10k with a pet? No thanks. Nerf everything, all the things that are overperforming currently, bring it down. Let the fire of justice rain down hard.

High damaging strikes? Any ranger that is hitting you that hard on non-burst strikes is going to be be glassy, so I wouldn't say its unfair. DPS rangers can't clear condi. Even when it is a burst, if it's a DPS dealing ranger, he's probably running GS. Which has arguably the most predictable and easy to read animations.

Holo or Spellbreak can hit you for a huge amount too, and they have other annoying spec mechanics that are more OP than a pet. And not AI-based. They'll hit you for that 10k and then each of their individual strikes will actually be /high damaging/.

Pet nerfs would hurt all ranger builds. Absolutely no point.

i think the dmg is ok, but pets need to be disabled if someone kills it, pets follow you to hell even if you are stealthed and you can't fight back because if you kill it the ranger will just change the pet and he will be ressed, on top of that you need to waste alot of skills cd to kill it since they are like elite monsters, i think they need to remove this ability to ress the pet and if the pet dies the ranger should be unable to use it, until the ranger dies, this will force rangers play more careful and strategically with pets not just press f1 and let the pet do all the work

Sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous. I understand that many do not like this mechanic, but no other profession can be deprived of their mechanic and ranger should not make a difference.We are talking about a mechanic commanded by an AI who is not allowed to control, who is unable to dodge or avoid fields that cannot follow the character by jumping or avoiding obstacles, I look forward to a reworking of this.

It's impossible to play with strategy with something you don't control, you should try it.

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@Revolution.5409 said:

@Revolution.5409 said:The problem is that in PvP there are professions that do too many things with a single build and are Firebrand, Holosmith and SB.

Would anyone explain to me why pets should get nerfs?

Because when a rock gazelle can legit smack you for 10k, on top of all of your high damaging strikes to add, it tends to get a bit unfair. I mean, why should that be a thing at all? hitting 10k with a pet? No thanks. Nerf everything, all the things that are overperforming currently, bring it down. Let the fire of justice rain down hard.

High damaging strikes? Any ranger that is hitting you that hard on non-burst strikes is going to be be glassy, so I wouldn't say its unfair. DPS rangers can't clear condi. Even when it is a burst, if it's a DPS dealing ranger, he's probably running GS. Which has arguably the most predictable and easy to read animations.

Holo or Spellbreak can hit you for a huge amount too, and they have other annoying spec mechanics that are more OP than a pet. And not AI-based. They'll hit you for that 10k and then each of their individual strikes will actually be /high damaging/.

Pet nerfs would hurt all ranger builds. Absolutely no point.

i think the dmg is ok, but pets need to be disabled if someone kills it, pets follow you to hell even if you are stealthed and you can't fight back because if you kill it the ranger will just change the pet and he will be ressed, on top of that you need to waste alot of skills cd to kill it since they are like elite monsters, i think they need to remove this ability to ress the pet and if the pet dies the ranger should be unable to use it, until the ranger dies, this will force rangers play more careful and strategically with pets not just press f1 and let the pet do all the work

Sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous. I understand that many do not like this mechanic, but no other profession can be deprived of their mechanic and ranger should not make a difference.We are talking about a mechanic commanded by an AI who is not allowed to control, who is unable to dodge or avoid fields that cannot follow the character by jumping or avoiding obstacles, I look forward to a reworking of this.

It's impossible to play with strategy with something you don't control, you should try it.

Rangers have 2 pets so even if someone kill one they can still have backup pet, so it's not unfair neither ridiculous because rangers don't really need their pets, if the pets dies the ranger are still strong as any other class, pets in gw2 are like an extra to make rangers even more stronger, if you kill a pet on pvp they need to stay killed not ressed by just changing the pet, what is obvious unfair to players that wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

That's the point you control the pet maybe you don't know it because everyone just press f1 and let the pet do all the job.

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I would like to see condition powercreep addressed.

The long-term objective should be to have most conditions be damage over time again - which means, reduce stacks, damage modifiers etc. and change durations. Conditions should aim for not killing anyone under ten seconds or so, even without any cleanses. Cover conditions like on condi thief, condi mirage and scourge need to be reduced.At the same time, cleanses need to be heavily nerfed as well. Make both conditions and cleanses meaningful again - activating a 3-condi-cleanse should be well timed until after you see your enemy unload his conditions. Stuff like that. The amount of cleanses from firebrands and weavers should be reduced too, packed into fewer longer CD skills.

For example: While it should not be possible for condi thief to apply 6(?) conditions within basically no time (S2 and dodge). At the same time, water weaver cycling through water and air is basically immune even to these condi bombs. Anyone without condi clears dies in seconds against the first, while even powercrept condi classes can't do anything against the powercrept cleansing bots.

So: I would like to see condi builds be about 1-2 damaging condition(s) and 1-2 cover conditions. Cleanses must be reduced with CDs, number of condis cleansed and maybe internal CDs.

About the same goes for power damage, but I feel like conditions/cleanses are even worse and made many many builds completely impossible to be played.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said :Mirage Cloak: This is no longer usable while while under crowd control effects aside from daze.

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said :: Evade while CCed is unfair.

  • Mirage (Their Condi application and power are fine, but their ability to produce an absurd amount of visual noise and bypass being CC'd through their dodge needs to stop. Give them clones or the ability to break though cc on dodge, not both)

Again where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).

@Crab Fear.1624 said :Probably should get rid of IH, that's like damage on dodge lol.Damage on dodge who can be rupted, blocked with obvious animation and max 4k damage (average 2k5.) often on the form of damage over time seems finer than what exist on someone else.

@ZDragon.3046 said :If thats the case i demand life force consumption for reaper be reverted immediately, skill 5 should be a reveal like is in core shroud skill 2 should blink you to your target and the auto attack should fire arc projectile if the target is not in range lets just ignore profession mechanic trade offs for the sake of defending your main class and pretend playstyle is the trade off.In that case I demand to have ambush on shatter instead of on evade then we can talk about no counterpart.I would actually welcome that change if clones only ambushed by using shatter command. IT gives the Mirage unique shatters and a trade off from core mesmer.Put ambush attacks with bonus effects on shatters and remove infinite horizon from the game all together. Clone ambush attacks are now balanced by shatter cooldownsThis is PROBABLY how it should have been from the get go.Mirage cloak shouldnt be doing so much when comboed with a trait like IH while providing freedome to cast without interruption.I'm not sure you imagine the survival buff of not having to evade to do damage and the obvious "mesmer op unkillable" post who will come with this change.And sorry but this is a gameplay change suggestion as opposed to a counterpart to highlight that I dunno why you biased your necro comparison while mixing the two when comparing to mesmer.Not to say that shatter will provide more overall ambush than current dodge uptime can...

@mortrialus.3062 said:I've played plenty of power mesmer, both core and mirage. Losing Mirage Cloak while CC'd isn't going to break Mirage. Mesmer is pretty spoiled for stunbreak options between Blink and Signet of Midnight. And even plenty of nonstunbreak options like Phase Retreat, Jaunt and Illusionary Ambush to move you out of danger while stunned and even things like F3 and F4, Mantra of Distraction can save you if you end up stunned.

False Oasis is just a biiiit too good of a heal for the sheer utility of it. It can be 100% covered by Mirage Cloak making it nearly impossible to interrupt, which is bad enough. But it grants both an evade through a mirror and enough vigor to get a bar of endurance after the 5 seconds the heal spends ticking. So using mirage Cloak isn't even a real investment of resources to ensure the heal happens. Shave a bit of the healing off because it is a bit too potent for all it's utility, 15% to 20%. Extend the cast time so everyone has an opportunity to interrupt it even with Mirage Cloak. It'd still be an amazing healing skill.

Dodge while stunned and Elusive Mind are fundamentally toxic interactions. And losing Dodge while stunned won't dumpster mirage like losing Illusionary Persona did for Chrono.I don't know that now power mesmer use staff, didn't see that since vanilla shatter.List me the class heal who can be rupt without be covered.Again, and for the moment nobody answer me :Where is the core mesmer build without stealth who is viable ? Because a mirage who can't evade when he want isn't more than a core build with no stealth(PU).Once you prove me that someone can perform with this, we can talk about reworking mirage cloak.

First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

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@Swagg.9236 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Revenant:Inhibit Revenant's ability to chain together literally 10+ seconds of block and evade back to back with no pause.

Hard disagree. If revenant is “evading/blocking” for 10s straight it’s spending all of its energy on doing that at the expense of losing most of its damage output (note not all, just the majority) and will end up dead once it runs out of energy. Meanwhile you have plenty of other classes able to put out significant damage pressure and block/evade/invuln without having to really trade off for it. Spellbreaker/Mirage for example.

Good thing that rev can just press F1 or F2 for more energy.

And then you’re out of most defensive options at that point even by “pressing f1” and f2 is core which is generally not as good as herald so the extra 25 energy shouldn’t be factored in when looking to nerf the class since it’s not overperforming

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@"Vancho.8750" said:I think that the NErf nerf NErf threads are just a red flag that something is not working properly and needs some looking into, how was it, People might not know what is wrong, but they sure do know that something is off.

That for sure, I'm the first one that says "there is something wrong in some build/classes".But read some post and tell me why some builds, instead of being balanced, should be "nerfed to the ground, nuked down, cancelled"?Build diversity is part of the fun.

Condi Mirage, Staff Thief, S/D condi daredevil, rifle Holosmith, Spellbreaker are not so hard to face, If you know what are you doing.. why kill all those builds? Just adjust the traits that create more problems or are a little unfair.Kill a build only creates new and bigger imbalances.

IMHO anyway, If you don't know where the problem is, you shouldn't ask the destruction of everything that you are unable to easy win.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

It's attacks aren't telegraphed, pls, don't say this, smokescale knockdown is telegraphed, gazelle just strikes you (me) for 8-12k all of a sudden.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

Yes, that's my argument. The fact that you actually believe pets track and reveal stealthed targets upon hitting them is proof enough that you have a LOT of room to improve.

Second, if the ranger is hitting 15k Rapid Fires it means he's running full glass and you're sitting there eating every shot. It also means you're letting the ranger stay at max range and free cast.

Third, you can literally avoid 90% of the pet's damage through movement alone.

Fourth, trying to kill the pet is exactly that. A waste of cooldowns.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

Yes, that's my argument. The fact that you
actually
believe pets track and reveal stealthed targets upon hitting them is proof enough that you have a LOT of room to improve.

Second, if the ranger is hitting 15k Rapid Fires it means he's running full glass and you're sitting there eating every shot. It also means you're letting the ranger stay at max range and free cast.

Third, you can literally avoid 90% of the pet's damage through movement alone.

Fourth, trying to kill the pet is exactly that. A
waste
of cooldowns.

big facepalm, let's end here

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@dDuff.3860 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

It's attacks aren't telegraphed, pls, don't say this, smokescale knockdown is telegraphed, gazelle just strikes you (me) for 8-12k all of a sudden.

Oh hey did you ever get your coaching thing set up?

Yeah the attacks are pretty telegraphed. The two hard hitting ones are the charge and the f2. The charge has a windup where the Gazelle stands still and lifts it's leg a few times before running forwards. The f2 requires specific setups to land because it won't connect if the target is simply running in the opposite direction. To avoid the f2, watch for immobilizes/dazes/pet swaps to Gazelle and get ready to dodge. The Smokescale knockdown isn't any more telegraphed than the Gazelle attacks. If you're getting hit suddenly for 8-12k, it means the ranger landed and interrupt to proc Moment of Clarity, used Maul to buff the Gazelle's next attack, and pet swap to Gazelle simultaneously and use f2.

Now, this is coming from a ranger main BUT I play every class and I find it pretty easy to avoid the pets. If you want I can log on to EU and show you some of the common setups for Gazelle if that'd help.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

Yes, that's my argument. The fact that you
actually
believe pets track and reveal stealthed targets upon hitting them is proof enough that you have a LOT of room to improve.

Second, if the ranger is hitting 15k Rapid Fires it means he's running full glass and you're sitting there eating every shot. It also means you're letting the ranger stay at max range and free cast.

Third, you can literally avoid 90% of the pet's damage through movement alone.

Fourth, trying to kill the pet is exactly that. A
waste
of cooldowns.

big facepalm, let's end here

Gazelle is the only pet that really does damage. All of the other pets are used mostly for their utility/control effects to set up damage from the player.

But sure, we can end it here and you can continue to get revealed by pets hitting you when you're stealthed. (lol)

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

If you want a competitive game...youl should not be able to re-stealth once you engage the opponent

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

so? that's your argument? get better at game? if the pet does nothing and its so easy to avoid why do you even need it? the problem is when he going to hit you, most of the times is when you are on low/half life hiding from the ranger at some pillar/wall and the pet will come to you and you can't fight back, if you kill the pet the ranger will come to you since you wasted all your cds, if you stay there the pet will kill you and if you run the ranger will hit you from 2k range doing 15k rapid fire attack, if you are playing a stealth class the pet will hit you revealing you.so if you want a competitive game play if you kill the pet in situations like that they should stay dead, not just ressed by changing it to reset the whole fight

If you want a competitive game...youl should not be able to re-stealth once you engage the opponent

yeah, they need get revealed for more time, also i play all the classes im just saying what is broken in some situations

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@dDuff.3860 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what is obvious unfair to players that
wasted all their cooldown to kill the pet.

There's your problem.

yeah, you should not kill the pet and that's what started the discussion here, you can't fight back and the pet will kill you.

The only pet that hits remotely hard is Gazelle and it's attacks are telegraphed. If you're dying to an AI that just runs at you auto attacking, you need to get better at the game.

It's attacks aren't telegraphed, pls, don't say this, smokescale knockdown is telegraphed, gazelle just strikes you (me) for 8-12k all of a sudden.

Gazelle charge has huge wind up but what you say is graphic bug (this is not stealh charge) - gazelle just freezing and teleporting on your body (you are already hit then)

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First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into.

I will save viquing troubles to reply, what stunbreak are you talking about?, you see our main issue was and still most people who talk about mesmers (mirage) specifically, have NO idea how things work, and sadly anet choose to listen to them (sorry anet but thats true), it started with what? nerf elusive mind people, then til today we see some strange things.

Now as for dodging while stunned etc, come on, some classes can't be stunned even.

The only thing that we mesmers might accept losing dodging even while cc'd for is getting the things we have lost over these past few years, and then people would complain even more again (best is to go through patches to see what i am talking about) and to actually have knowledge about the skills of mesmers.

And the rest of the issue, people should really be specific about what they talk about, condi mesmer or power mesmer, there is big difference between them.

I wanna see a power mesmer not using mirage cloak when stunned etc, gonna be fun, even condi won't work, but power will be fun for sure =p

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@"Crab Fear.1624" said:

You can evade while performing other actions.

You seem to be leaving that out.

The bonus of being able to do it while cc'd minus daze should have always been tied only to EM.

If you choose EM, your dodge is also a condi clear and stunbreak, at a hefty price

If you choose IH, your damage is boosted, so if you get cc'd you should pay the price like everyone else.

It really is that simple.

Ok, I know you aren't a mesmer main but it's not that simple at all.Let me show you classic use case : you are engaging from a thief steal, with evade when you want, you save 3 to 5k hp (<= this is why thief harcounter core mes on a side note.).You are hitting by a instant or AOE CC from any other meta (holo bump, war bullcharge from melee under cele, weaver random 3 sec CC, etc.) you are dead while every of theses class can do 1 fail or 2 and be safe. "everyone else" as you mention it, can be CCed without pay the price that's the problem and I don't understand why mesmer should be the one who have to be CCed die if they do 1 fail while some meta class can eat full burst and still be alive while loading 4 to 5k easily. While some can't even be CCed thanks to temporisation tools uptimes.If you swap mobility utility like blink/MoD to more breakstunt, you are dead because every other class will chase you to death.That's basically why you haven't a core mesmer build viable without PU survival.So if you have to choose between dodge when you want and IH, I can 100% predict that everyone will choose dodge when you want because it's not a gameplay choice but a viability choice.

@"Lilyanna.9361" said:First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into."Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage." lol, really ?Thief has access to evade on weapon skill with a high uptime + in/out mobility from LoS + have a way better endurance uptime than mesmer but If you want I'm 100% for having thief 'normal' dodge. I will not even go under the HoT period where thief was godlike unkillable thanks to unhindered combatant who was only nerfed at the end (basically immune to soft cc, perma speed + out of large aoe.)."if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much." First I'm not sure there is that much mesmer and want anet to give the stat to end this discussion about class representation who will drasticaly reduce this endlesss discussion. They did it during vanilla, why didn't they give stats ?I'm pretty sure I can win versus 80% of people here on a core mesmer, the problem start at high level when you have thing you can't realisticly dodge because of instant or comboing or unblocable or whatever.I took a breath during last years whine, who end with a 1 monogameplay shatter play during HoT. 2 mechanic destruction during PoF with most of time no other argument than "I feel it's too strong".I don't care about other class change but don't talk about a class change if you never play it other than farming full zerk people in McM.

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@Heartpains.7312 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:

First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into.

I will save viquing troubles to reply, what stunbreak are you talking about?, you see our main issue was and still most people who talk about mesmers (mirage) specifically, have NO idea how things work, and sadly anet choose to listen to them (sorry anet but thats true), it started with what? nerf elusive mind people, then til today we see some strange things.

Now as for dodging while stunned etc, come on, some classes can't be stunned even.

The only thing that we mesmers might accept losing dodging even while cc'd for is getting the things we have lost over these past few years, and then people would complain even more again (best is to go through patches to see what i am talking about) and to actually have knowledge about the skills of mesmers.

And the rest of the issue, people should really be specific about what they talk about, condi mesmer or power mesmer, there is big difference between them.

I wanna see a power mesmer not using mirage cloak when stunned etc, gonna be fun, even condi won't work, but power will be fun for sure =p

why this trait even exists https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind ?

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@"SeikeNz.3526" said:

why this trait even exists https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elusive_Mind ?

I don't know, why it exist, but i do believe that both Elusive Mind and Dune Cloak are there as a meme, Dune Cloak might have some uses here and there (not worth picking over IH but still), Elusive Mind hurts the mesmer and cripples them for real, would appreciate if they disabled or deleted Elusive Mind so no new mesmers try it and hurt themselves.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@"viquing.8254" said:

First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into.

I will save viquing troubles to reply, what stunbreak are you talking about?, you see our main issue was and still most people who talk about mesmers (mirage) specifically, have NO idea how things work, and sadly anet choose to listen to them (sorry anet but thats true), it started with what? nerf elusive mind people, then til today we see some strange things.

Now as for dodging while stunned etc, come on, some classes can't be stunned even.

The only thing that we mesmers might accept losing dodging even while cc'd for is getting the things we have lost over these past few years, and then people would complain even more again (best is to go through patches to see what i am talking about) and to actually have knowledge about the skills of mesmers.

And the rest of the issue, people should really be specific about what they talk about, condi mesmer or power mesmer, there is big difference between them.

I wanna see a power mesmer not using mirage cloak when stunned etc, gonna be fun, even condi won't work, but power will be fun for sure =p

why this trait even exists
?

To play a hardcore version of mirage with no endurance ?Joke aside, principally to condiclear.

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First of all, let me address you since you want to have a fit and none of the other mesmer mains seem to gotten angry over my comment.

I said get rid of STUN BREAK ON DODGE. The reason I also mentioned clones is they produce TOO MUCH. I'm not saying gut it. I'm not saying make clones useless, when I mean choose between the two I meant pick having creating a massive amount of clones and forgo the stunbreak on dodge, OR forgo creating all of those extra clones and ambushes for the stunbreak. Keep your shatters, keep your stealth, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOUR POWER. I have an issue with your class having a dodge that bypasses anyway to lock it down because it's supposely squishy. Thief is just as squishy and has a 'normal' dodge (they get swiftness or they do Condi damage.

I know how to find the mesmer, fight the mesmer, whatever. My main issue is you guys bypassing a BASIC MECHANIC because your dodge, for some reason, has to be special and not get locked down. Heck, I complain more about this than your ambushes because honestly, if a lot mesmer 'mains' could not stunbreak on dodge than a lot of people would not try to cheese on the class so much.

Okay? Take a breath. I know plenty of people in here that are screaming to take away Fresh Air ele damage (lol at those people) and the Weaver dodges, but I'm not going to hop on the actual people that listed reasonable tweaks/minor nerfs to not make Weaver into a brainless Condi not like the rest of the classes are turning into.

I will save viquing troubles to reply, what stunbreak are you talking about?, you see our main issue was and still most people who talk about mesmers (mirage) specifically, have NO idea how things work, and sadly anet choose to listen to them (sorry anet but thats true), it started with what? nerf elusive mind people, then til today we see some strange things.

Now as for dodging while stunned etc, come on, some classes can't be stunned even.

The only thing that we mesmers might accept losing dodging even while cc'd for is getting the things we have lost over these past few years, and then people would complain even more again (best is to go through patches to see what i am talking about) and to actually have knowledge about the skills of mesmers.

And the rest of the issue, people should really be specific about what they talk about, condi mesmer or power mesmer, there is big difference between them.

I wanna see a power mesmer not using mirage cloak when stunned etc, gonna be fun, even condi won't work, but power will be fun for sure =p

why this trait even exists
?

To play a hardcore version of mirage with no endurance ?Joke aside, principally to condiclear.

it just reminded me that we have to clear condis 1 by 1, and that I actually considered 1 condi clear good, in a world where shake it off exists xd

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