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Reducing the number of illusions from 3 to 2 might just fix mesmer...


ROMANG.1903

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

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@Koen.1327 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

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@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

ok, i'll go with a normal fight so u can undestand my point of view :

Starting a fight with staff 3 and 2 (clones generation + evade), go scepter + torch then torch 4 (3 sec stealth), blink teleport behind the enemy scepter 3 then dodge + A (ambush) and signet of midnight.... just torch 4 + signet of midnight = 5 sec stealth......

And as i say again, not everyone can handle it and i don't call for a nerf just calm down, mirage is squichy and he need his clones and evade(dodge) to survive.

then I will say what happens now, oponent uses 1 cleansing ability, now you used 6-7 abilities and 2 dodges, warrior will lose 20% hp, cleanse everything.now you look at angry warrior. you have no dodges, you hae no stealth, you have no cc removing abilities. warrior has 80% hp, and every single ability ready.you have 2x jaunt, 1x disort, scepter 2 to survive warriors onslought with bullcharge, shield charge, dagger jumps, sword throws, arcing slices and many others, then he can signet->rampage, and rock->dash->stomp->rock, preety much 4x must dodge abilities, too bad you used them all to do 20% dmg :/

EDIT, you dont win by running into people as mirage, you have to let them run into you. if you use blink just to land destealth on 4 then you already lost.midnight is overrated, if you use phantasms before stealthing, they will remove your stealth, stealth in general is overrated, thats why its not run all that often, and meta mirage has 0 stealth, why take something that sometimes works? warrior,holo,revenant and core necro? reveal. thats why people run pistol instead. it works. always.

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@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:

@Don Vega Van Kain.9842 said:...you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one...lol

EDIT : i've answer u but i figurethat's not even worth it.

It's very rare for me to respond so bluntly, but 7-8s is an eternity.

When fighting an opponent mesmer it takes at most 1-2s to not only find but also retarget, either through next/previous or cursor select.

Learn which skills actually break target - most of the time there will be 1-3 skills including things like Prestige, Axe3, Illusionary Ambush, Signet of Midnight. Learn the audio/visual cues. Learn the combos and when they are likely to be used. Be ready to give huge pressure upon one or more of these cooldowns being burnt.

Phase retreat does not break target. Blink does not break target. Dodge does not break target. Jaunt does not break target.For my own build, when I'm in staff I have zero target breaks or stealth.

You beat mesmer by knowing how they play - and timing huge burst after they burn key retarget/invuln/etc. In my experience is much easier to fight against mesmer than a number of other specs, as most mesmer builds cannot sustain once you land a few bursts.

The only legit time I have been able to play proper hide and seek with (fairly bad) groups in wvw was before Illusionary Ambush got nerfed and was 20s cooldown - with staff it occassionally allowed 3+s standing still.

It is very much a learn to play issue if it takes 7 or more seconds to find and retarget.

Edit - I saw your other responses and need to add that stealth duration/uptime is not the same as the time to retarget once a mesmer is visible. The latter should be 1-2s as said above. Sure, high stealth uptime builds can run and hide forever - like deadeye or similar cheese stealth builds. But in my experience they are not much threat if they stay to fight, which involves breaking stealth to do damage.If stealth is an issue (separate issue from retargeting) - I have in the past advocated for stealth rework. In any case it is posssible PU should be changed to reduce stealth duration stacking and uptime.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

then I will say what happens now, oponent uses 1 cleansing ability, now you used 6-7 abilities and 2 dodges, warrior will lose 20% hp, cleanse everything.now you look at angry warrior. you have no dodges, you hae no stealth, you have no cc removing abilities. warrior has 80% hp, and every single ability ready.you have 2x jaunt, 1x disort, scepter 2 to survive warriors onslought with bullcharge, shield charge, dagger jumps, sword throws, arcing slices and many others, then he can signet->rampage, and rock->dash->stomp->rock, preety much 4x must dodge abilities, too bad you used them all to do 20% dmg :/

EDIT, you dont win by running into people as mirage, you have to let them run into you. if you use blink just to land destealth on 4 then you already lost.midnight is overrated, if you use phantasms before stealthing, they will remove your stealth, stealth in general is overrated, thats why its not run all that often, and meta mirage has 0 stealth, why take something that sometimes works? warrior,holo,revenant and core necro? reveal. thats why people run pistol instead. it works. always.

:D really u still argue for something and u won't even hear what i say, I DON'T speak about losing or winning, I don't speak about fighting a war or a choya, ur defending mirage tooth and nail as a whole profession when i just make an observation taht if mirage want, u can't know who's the real one for a while, it JUST THAT. :D fewwww

PS : a personal remark, why runing off meta ? coz people expect you to play meta, it surprises them and builds off meta who work,there's a ton ;) and playing meta again and again like 80% of people is just....boring.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

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@Koen.1327 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

The thing is this is a problem with stealth itself, not a problem with clones and finding a target that is visible.

Ideally skills could be individually changed to disallow stacking (so there isn't a blanket nerf that would have a huge negative impact on thief).

No mesmer stealth should be able to stack, and PU should not increase stealth duration (instead it could be changed to also provide boons when invuln or something).

Alternatively doing any action while stealthed should break the stealth - eg dodging, casting a phantasm, etc.

Maybe some of those are overkill, but I strongly believe in this instance stealth is what should be looked at. I believe detarget should be pushed as a central theme to mesmer instead of stealth as it is both more easily counterable (player is still visible) and more thematic with clones.

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@Koen.1327 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

tell me what clone spells you can spam that wont reveal you? im curious, becouse phatasms WILL reveal you, the only thing you can do is staff 2 and dodge.and if you use torch then gl, becouse you dont have pistol for damage or CC.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

The thing is this is a problem with stealth itself, not a problem with clones and finding a target that is visible.

Ideally skills could be individually changed to disallow stacking (so there isn't a blanket nerf that would have a huge negative impact on thief).

No mesmer stealth should be able to stack, and PU should not increase stealth duration (instead it could be changed to also provide boons when invuln or something).

Alternatively doing any action while stealthed should break the stealth - eg dodging, casting a phantasm, etc.

Maybe some of those are overkill, but I strongly believe in this instance stealth is what should be looked at. I believe detarget should be pushed as a central theme to mesmer instead of stealth as it is both more easily counterable (player is still visible) and more thematic with clones.

Im fine with that tbh, some stealth could stay, like midnight signet is well designed.mass invis is stupid, torch 4 could be reworked tbh.they would have to fix ranger pets, they ignore retarget -> fuck bambi pet and 15k dmg homing teleporting gliching head toss.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

tell me what clone spells you can spam that wont reveal you? im curious, becouse phatasms WILL reveal you, the only thing you can do is staff 2 and dodge.and if you use torch then gl, becouse you dont have pistol for damage or CC.

Torch 5 only reveals you if hit with the initial aoe. Staff 3 doesnt reveal you.Phantasms dont reveal you, none at all - your claim is false.Torch vs pistol is situational - like you said if you even need the dmg or cc vs stealth

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@Koen.1327 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

tell me what clone spells you can spam that wont reveal you? im curious, becouse phatasms WILL reveal you, the only thing you can do is staff 2 and dodge.and if you use torch then gl, becouse you dont have pistol for damage or CC.

Torch 5 only reveals you if hit with the initial aoe. Staff 3 doesnt reveal you.Phantasms dont reveal you, none at all - your claim is false.Torch vs pistol is situational - like you said if you even need the dmg or cc vs stealth

Alright ehre is the thing, when you are stealth, and your attack is in the air already, it WILL reveal you.if you have chaos storm, its damage WILL reveal you.if you use healing skil and summons lesser storm, it WILL reveal you.when you cast phantasm, if you have autoattack set up, it will automaticcally attack, and it WILL reveal you.and you HAVE to get autoattack set up becouse the game is bugged and doesnt respect that dodge/block skills should override all other skills when used. too bad right?

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

tell me what clone spells you can spam that wont reveal you? im curious, becouse phatasms WILL reveal you, the only thing you can do is staff 2 and dodge.and if you use torch then gl, becouse you dont have pistol for damage or CC.

Torch 5 only reveals you if hit with the initial aoe. Staff 3 doesnt reveal you.Phantasms dont reveal you, none at all - your claim is false.Torch vs pistol is situational - like you said if you even need the dmg or cc vs stealth

Alright ehre is the thing, when you are stealth, and your attack is in the air already, it WILL reveal you.if you have chaos storm, its damage WILL reveal you.if you use healing skil and summons lesser storm, it WILL reveal you.when you cast phantasm, if you have autoattack set up, it will automaticcally attack, and it WILL reveal you.and you HAVE to get autoattack set up becouse the game is bugged and doesnt respect that dodge/block skills should override all other skills when used. too bad right?

No you dont need to have autoattack on (or autoattack at all) and you dont need to stealth while chaos storm is up or cast chaos storm while stealthedRevealing yourself is on you and is 100% avoidable

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@Koen.1327 said:

if he actually knew what he was doing, it would take him 0,1s to spot the real one.

Yep agree with u if u face a "common" mirage simply because he move while ur front of him (that's what i do, hit the runing clone)

A good mirage, would'nt move, will stay a little behind the right of his clone (your left, more than 70% of world population are right handed, statistically, u'll hit at right or middle first, never left), he will stealth when you come near him and teleport behind something in case of .... you will take at least 7-8 secs to know who's the real one) But as i says only a good mirage can do it :)

no, literarly no. you assume that you
dont know what is a real one
to begin with, you should never ever lose track of real one.

How u gonna never lose the track of the real one, if he stealth ? if he port ?

And do not misunderstand me, i've never say to reduce clones, i just talk about focus the real mesmer....don't mix.

i play staff / scepter + torch with signet of midnight + Blink (duelling, illusions and mirage), not meta but even mirages have a headach to find me.

becouse teleporting doesnt hide the real mesmer? if he stealth you know he is invisible and thus everything that you see is a clone, when he appears you know its the real one, becouse clones dont stealth. simpleif my enemy blinks, i know its the real one, clones dont blink or jaunt? right ?

If you dodge while in stealth the one that appears is obviously not the real oneMirage can easily spew out 3+ clones while in stealth, illusionist is just a tactic that non mesmers find gross

depends on the stealth, torch stealth creates explosion, so if you use only this stealth you know its the real one, as in the video provided.nonmesmers find this gross, I find warrior facetanking for 10-15s while taking no damage disgusting, I find him landing random aoe on stealth oponent that chunks for 1/4 hp disgusting, I find him throwing a rock for 11,1k dmg disgusting.Difference of opinions.

The mirage in the video uses inferior build. With chaos you can just chain 7,5 secs of stealth while spamming all your clones skills and none of them will reveal you, so his comment of 7-8 sec finding the real one is not far off.I mean the war vid is insane 4k auto attacks 11k boulder but this topic is about clone spam

tell me what clone spells you can spam that wont reveal you? im curious, becouse phatasms WILL reveal you, the only thing you can do is staff 2 and dodge.and if you use torch then gl, becouse you dont have pistol for damage or CC.

Torch 5 only reveals you if hit with the initial aoe. Staff 3 doesnt reveal you.Phantasms dont reveal you, none at all - your claim is false.Torch vs pistol is situational - like you said if you even need the dmg or cc vs stealth

Alright ehre is the thing, when you are stealth, and your attack is in the air already, it WILL reveal you.if you have chaos storm, its damage WILL reveal you.if you use healing skil and summons lesser storm, it WILL reveal you.when you cast phantasm, if you have autoattack set up, it will automaticcally attack, and it WILL reveal you.and you HAVE to get autoattack set up becouse the game is bugged and doesnt respect that dodge/block skills should override all other skills when used. too bad right?

No you dont need to have autoattack on (or autoattack at all) and you dont need to stealth while chaos storm is up or cast chaos storm while stealthedRevealing yourself is on you and is 100% avoidable

so, when your auto si mid air you cant stealth, when you fight holo you cant stealth, when chaos storm is on the ground you cant stealth, when you are tethered you cant stealth, when rev is close you cant stealth.using stealth just to use staff 3 and torch 5 is a waste of several traits and powers.just tried it, all it did was help rez/stomp, getting extra clones dont matter, getting them froms tealth dont matter.

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Game was released 7 years ago. Some people still have trouble realizing the most painfully obvious mechanic.

1 - Clones either don't move, if ranged, or run in a pattern if melee.2 - Clones only use autoattack3 - Clones don't have the same boons4 - Clones don't have food effect (if wvw)5 - Clones don't have trait effects icon.6 - Clones don't have signets equipped7 - Clones don't stealth and don't teleport.8 - Clones don't have the same hp.

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Game was released 7 years ago. Some people still have trouble realizing the most painfully obvious mechanic.

1 - Clones either don't move, if ranged, or run in a pattern if melee.2 - Clones only use autoattack3 - Clones don't have the same boons4 - Clones don't have food effect (if wvw)5 - Clones don't have trait effects icon.6 - Clones don't have signets equipped7 - Clones don't stealth and don't teleport.8 - Clones don't have the same hp.

Also between every clone aa, there's a bit of a down time where they don't do anything

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@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Game was released 7 years ago. Some people still have trouble realizing the most painfully obvious mechanic.

1 - Clones either don't move, if ranged, or run in a pattern if melee.2 - Clones only use autoattack3 - Clones don't have the same boons4 - Clones don't have food effect (if wvw)5 - Clones don't have trait effects icon.6 - Clones don't have signets equipped7 - Clones don't stealth and don't teleport.8 - Clones don't have the same hp.

Clones also have a very significant pause between autoattacks normal memsers won't have.

Edit Beaten by @Gryxis.6950

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@Gryxis.6950 said:

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:Game was released 7 years ago. Some people still have trouble realizing the most painfully obvious mechanic.

1 - Clones either don't move, if ranged, or run in a pattern if melee.2 - Clones only use autoattack3 - Clones don't have the same boons4 - Clones don't have food effect (if wvw)5 - Clones don't have trait effects icon.6 - Clones don't have signets equipped7 - Clones don't stealth and don't teleport.8 - Clones don't have the same hp.

Also between every clone aa, there's a bit of a down time where they don't do anything

also clones use ambush instantly when able, if 3 clones ambush instantly and 1 is off.... you know who the real one is.you can also kite behind terrain, clones will follow.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You lot all realise most mesmer builds can kill single targets near instantly right? The reaction time of any person trying to find the real one AND being able to deliver all that damage to kill it is impossible between all of the stealth and dodges and mirage cloaks that cause obscenely long invulns and evades. You also have to specifically build to purge all of the conditions in time before it takes chunks out of you. The only ones that can survive it are the tankier ones, such as scrappers, firebrands, holosmiths and warriors. No other profession has a chance. The problem was never finding the real one, it was always never having the chance to find the real one. You make better thieves than thieves do.

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@Sottises.8034 said:You lot all realise most mesmer builds can kill single targets near instantly right? The reaction time of any person trying to find the real one AND being able to deliver all that damage to kill it is impossible between all of the stealth and dodges and mirage cloaks that cause obscenely long invulns and evades. You also have to specifically build to purge all of the conditions in time before it takes chunks out of you. The only ones that can survive it are the tankier ones, such as scrappers, firebrands, holosmiths and warriors. No other profession has a chance. The problem was never finding the real one, it was always never having the chance to find the real one. You make better thieves than thieves do.

And then you get oneshoted by thief.

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@Sottises.8034 said:You lot all realise most mesmer builds can kill single targets near instantly right? The reaction time of any person trying to find the real one AND being able to deliver all that damage to kill it is impossible between all of the stealth and dodges and mirage cloaks that cause obscenely long invulns and evades. You also have to specifically build to purge all of the conditions in time before it takes chunks out of you. The only ones that can survive it are the tankier ones, such as scrappers, firebrands, holosmiths and warriors. No other profession has a chance. The problem was never finding the real one, it was always never having the chance to find the real one. You make better thieves than thieves do.

so what you are telling me is that you get 1shot by invisible power condi mirage?

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@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Nerf Mesmer threads are cute in 2019.

In seriousness, it sounds like a major rework is on the horizon, for better or worse, so "how to 'fix' mesmer" suggestions may not be relevant in the near future.

at this point im playing berserker shatter PU stealth, with pistol.+1 on people with 3clone stun shatter on f3 and pistol shot.if im not allowed to have fun then fuck all, nobody gonna have fun XD

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