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New Generation Roamers lack the Bravery of the Old Guards


EremiteAngel.9765

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@Grey.3179 said:Nike Rangers Unite!!!I almost exclusively solo roam on a Greatsword, sword/warhorn soulbeast with a bird pet. I can't tell you how much fun I have had flipping camps and getting groups to chase me all over the map. I have more fun lately than I have had in a while.

I'm not positive but I think Papasmurf plays a mesmer, which is not condi cancer, but everyone knows that mesmers have some serious cooties. Lol.

Nuuuu. I was discovered....as was my non condi / non meta cooties

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@"RangerThings.9810" said:I roam exclusively solo in enemy EBG. I have not been taking camps as frequently b/c of Warclaw. Reinforcements can arrive too quickly and you cannot escape if greatly outnumbered. The only way to avoid the Warclaw pile on is to roam blue/red sides near spawn where you can use cliffs to escape.

Just as an example. I am solo flipping the camp near a full tiered Bay on enemy homeland. I had tagged bay to prevent use of the waypoint.An enemy arrives on a warclaw as I am in the camp. I expect him to come and fight before I kill the rest of the guards and Dolyaks but he just sits nearby to watch.

He only comes into the camp to contest when 2 others on his team arrive both on warclaws. They can get on chat , say "someone flipping swc" and have time to wait because of the added speed warclaw provides.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:For the past few weeks, I have logged into WvW to see Tier 3 enemy supply camps in EBG and Borderlands.

This would have been a rare sight in the past when roamers would have gone deep into enemy lands to take their camps.It wasn't easy to tier up a supply camp.

Now? Tier 3 Supply Camps are everywhere.We got them, enemies got them, everyone got them.

And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.Whether solo, duo or party, they mostly roam in home owned territories only.Enter the enemy lands? Rare.

I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

Just earlier I watched an old guard roaming guild QQ bravely roaming in enemy territories and fighting outnumbered.This is what it means to roam bravely and freely.

New Generation roamers need to learn this from the old guards.

Why would I roam?...I don't mind lose to players...I don't want to lose to badly designed specs, game full of ganking deadeyes or some other perma stealth cheese that run miles when losing..it gets boring

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@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

I tried a few times alone. But always got killed by NPCs.Too tough alone to take a T3 camp.I asked for help.Sometimes people help me. Sometimes no one responds.But my issue is, why did we allow it to reach T3 in the first place.Why isn't anyone trying to cut supplies.I am sad.

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While I understand that the environment is vastly different now and favors the defenders, it shouldn't deter us from roaming deep in enemy lands.Bring the challenge you know.I still think the new generation roamers need to be braver.Nothing stopped old guards like QQ or vT or YUM from roaming in enemy lands even now.

What I've seen in recent times is:A supply camp in friendly area is taken. Lets say Umberglade camp in EBG.A group of roamers go to take the camp back. Myself included.After the camp is taken, I ride north north into Orges area and enter the enemy side to take their supply camp (Pangloss camp).But the rest of the group don't.They teleport back to keep.Or they run back to the middle area and stand around waiting for some action to happen.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

Reason being is because eternal battlegrounds is simply torture to roam on because of marked. Its literally impossible to go anywhere without being jumped by a 5 man gank squad after being pinged on the map. Clean fights are impossible because enemies just swarm your location before you can down one or two opponents. Its simply impossible to travel anywhere without getting marked and swarmed.

Roamers roam in BL's enemy territory all the time because its actually possible to avoid the marked garbage. But a lot of us avoid EB like the plague because unless you're running with 5+ people you're gonna have a bad time. Mounts + Marked = constantly ganked. Has nothing to do with courage. We only have so much leisure time to spend and enjoy. We choose not to spend that time getting ganked by 6-7 people while duo roaming.

Anet do something about marked seriously. Make it only work once it detects 10 or more enemies around a sentry or tower. Just do something please.

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@Doug.4930 said:Anet do something about marked seriously. Make it only work once it detects 10 or more enemies around a sentry or tower. Just do something please.The sentries are really tame for this aspect, its the towers with their perma omni-vision thats the issue. On DBL its even worse as towers literally use two balloons.

Which incidently was the first thing we complained about when they added them, Anet never listened. It degraded the role of the scout to... nothing. IMO this upgrade shouldnt be passive, but rather one that gives like 5m of marked on 20m cd or something. Something you use if the tower is under attack.

Or alternativly, this passive tactivator would make the patrolling guards actual sentries. That way players can kill them and find gaps in the visibility and use roamers to take out patrols ahead of the zerg.

There are so many ideas for this but nope... Anet went with:

SPLADAM EYE OF SAURON EVERYWHERE, ENJOY!

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I just want to say a few things for those that are tilted by roamers.

The vast majority of the time, roamers are a small guild of >20 that are all very close friends. They roam together because they like to chill, chat and get in to trouble, often times lurking around certain areas paying more attention to what they're talking about than what's actually happening. Unfortunately this is usually a result of boredom because there isn't anything to do, because most people refuse to fight unless they outnumber. People call roamers "gankers" and yet said players also refuse to take any risks without the aid of their zerg or an objective as safety, so the roamers take what ever they can get. This usually means pushing their luck near enemy keeps, spawns or at the tail of blobs, all areas that are high risk but often appear in the roamers' favor because lesser skilled players don't know how to exploit the strengths of their position.

You can argue roamers are "bullies" or like to pick on individuals or people less skilled than them, and in some cases that's true. There are just as many toxic individuals in roaming as there are in zergs. For the most part however, they aren't out to get you. They just want to fight, enjoy their friendly company and pass what ever free time they have. I think a big part of the issue is people demonizing each other due to not knowing anything other than the red names above their opponents heads. It's easy to have a negative opinion of someone when all you've known of them is the actions of their characters in game.

As someone who has been primarily a solo/small scale player for the past 6+ years, I can say with confidence that many roamers are nothing near what people claim them to be. It's nothing but perspective.

I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

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@Doug.4930 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

I don't recall his name but I think he was a white furred charr from the guild HD, and using a unique short-bow ranger build that is pretty tough.He beat me 3-0 in a duel at Armistice Bastion recently and I'm just glad I didn't put anymore gold on the line :'(

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:For the past few weeks, I have logged into WvW to see Tier 3 enemy supply camps in EBG and Borderlands.

This would have been a rare sight in the past when roamers would have gone deep into enemy lands to take their camps.It wasn't easy to tier up a supply camp.

Now? Tier 3 Supply Camps are everywhere.We got them, enemies got them, everyone got them.

And the reason is because our new generation roamers lack the bravery to roam in enemy lands.Whether solo, duo or party, they mostly roam in home owned territories only.Enter the enemy lands? Rare.

I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

Just earlier I watched an old guard roaming guild QQ bravely roaming in enemy territories and fighting outnumbered.This is what it means to roam bravely and freely.

New Generation roamers need to learn this from the old guards.

What new generation? We're down to the dregs here. It's not a question of bravery. It's not the roamers being green. And even if it somehow was, who cares? It's not worth the frustration to show up for dailies, let alone a protracted gaming session in wvw as a roamer-A.K.A. the least fun you could ever have this side of smashing your genitalia with a rubber mallet.

This game mode is abandon-ware. All the big names at the company have jumped ship. What's more, even before they left they didn't care about WvW or the people playing it. They fobbed it off on some guy for two years while they planned their exit from the company while communicating with their fan base as little as humanly possible -that's how much they cared.

As a roamer/scout there's no reason to be brave and take one for the team when the team isn't much of one any more. It's literally thirty seconds of a blob's time to flip one of those camps even fully-upgraded. If they go that long uncontested it's because nobody gives a toss.

There's no use trying to guilt people into doing it either. They just don't care and I, for one, don't blame them one bit for feeling that way.

To hell with this mode. To hell with this game. Hope's for suckers. And hope for this game is for suckers who got fooled not just once but three times. The sort of dupes just itching for their chances to bend over and to say, 'Fourth time's the charm! Hit me! Take my money! Because I'm so so damned sad that even my life is meme-worthy!'

Or.. You know... Just ignore this. Stick it out. Soldier on. Stand firm. Do it for server pride. Do it for the children. Do it for luncheon meat. Or inertia. Or an in-game achievement -or something. Whatever.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

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@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

I can only speak for myself when i say i feel kinda frustrating when im roaming...i love to theorycraft and tryout new builds and have enjoyed that till short after pof release...ive made a start for the Harrier firebrand build, Brought in the Hammer vanilla guard, started as one of the first to run meditrapper in PVP again

Anyway i wanted to proove i barely do that anymore...Being creatieve...IT has no use to theorycraft because certain builds and people running around with the same builds for years...the build that's the strongest for the class...making me forced to run the most cheesy dh build there is (yeah meditrapper is easiest guardbuild but still requires more active play then most meta roaming builds like war, soulbeast, boonbeast, mirage etc.)

I feel this bores the Heck out of me since the only thing on Guardian thats been buffed usefully last 3-5 patches is true shot and deflecting shot...which did fine on their original stuff( true shot got to 1500 range and deflecting shot no longer double damage on projectile destroy but got 80% damage boost on default).

The other changes on guard are Just really random and feel stale. Even couldnt enjoy burn firebrand/guard because IT feels really passive...

Im not stating guard is in a bad spot; on the contrary i mean there's no diversity in what to fight and even most of those builds hardcounter on the cheesiest bullshit i can run (meditrapper vs holo, ranger and spellbreaker)

The meta is still and maybe Done evolving because there seems no counter to certain play and i dont even bother to fight a spellbreaker who can oneshot me with 3 skills on his bar, his dodgeroll that hits harder (and unblockable) then half my skills and can be immune to my damage 16/20 seconds. Its Just not fun for me anymore

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

I understand, and to a point I agree. As time goes on I find less and less roamers that purposefully seek challenging fights and instead go for what ever's fastest and easiest. The state of WvW and how it has evolved promotes that attitude and the players don't help much to change it, be it roamer or pug.

I think the whole "ganker" thing is a blameless perspective imposed on who ever was the victim. It feels better to make excuses than it does to accept mistakes and it's harder to avoid the temptation of vengeance than it is to avoid the person(s) you're frustrated with. Maybe that's just me projecting and how I feel on days I'm not in the best mood, but from what I've seen others say or what others have said directly to me, this is the conclusion I come to.

Ultimately, the game is what you make it. Maybe wanting to kill those who have wronged you is the motivation you need to keep playing and those you hate most should be thanked for giving you a reason to keep signing on. Or maybe they ruin your experience because your losses, especially when they come with humiliation, outweigh the pleasure of victory when you defeat them or wipe a blob with your own. I don't know, there are too many possibilities to consider them all.

I'm reading way too deep in to a video game here...I'm just trying to make the point that if everyone sees each other as deserving of humiliation or a bad reputation, then eventually everyone is going to treat each other like garbage regardless.

I can only speak for myself when i say i feel kinda frustrating when im roaming...i love to theorycraft and tryout new builds and have enjoyed that till short after pof release...ive made a start for the Harrier firebrand build, Brought in the Hammer vanilla guard, started as one of the first to run meditrapper in PVP again

Anyway i wanted to proove i barely do that anymore...Being creatieve...IT has no use to theorycraft because certain builds and people running around with the same builds for years...the build that's the strongest for the class...making me forced to run the most cheesy dh build there is (yeah meditrapper is easiest guardbuild but still requires more active play then most meta roaming builds like war, soulbeast, boonbeast, mirage etc.)

I feel this bores the Heck out of me since the only thing on Guardian thats been buffed usefully last 3-5 patches is true shot and deflecting shot...which did fine on their original stuff( true shot got to 1500 range and deflecting shot no longer double damage on projectile destroy but got 80% damage boost on default).

The other changes on guard are Just really random and feel stale. Even couldnt enjoy burn firebrand/guard because IT feels really passive...

Im not stating guard is in a bad spot; on the contrary i mean there's no diversity in what to fight and even most of those builds hardcounter on the cheesiest kitten i can run (meditrapper vs holo, ranger and spellbreaker)

The meta is still and maybe Done evolving because there seems no counter to certain play and i dont even bother to fight a spellbreaker who can oneshot me with 3 skills on his bar, his dodgeroll that hits harder (and unblockable) then half my skills and can be immune to my damage 16/20 seconds. Its Just not fun for me anymore

I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

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People use the tools they are given. The only difference between now and seven years ago are the "tools" provided -- there's a lot more mobility (among other aspects of power creep) than there used to be.It used to just be thieves (and to a limited degree warriors) with the mobility to run away, for everyone else once they initiated the fight they were committed. Now Thieves, rangers, mesmers, warriors, engineers and to a lesser degree elementalists , guardians and revenants all have numerous teleports and gap closers that allow them to be quite fast at closing and/or creating gaps and the mount simply compounds that.

If you want to equate "lacking bravery" with the mobility powercreep and the "old guard" with the builds players used before HoT then I could agree with the assessment, but I don't think players are inherently less willing to fight now than they were several years ago. Just the opposite, I'm sure a lot of players would be willing to see cuts to the mobility on their own main profession(s) if mobility was cut across the board. And it has to be cut across the board. (Yes, thieves included.)

~ Kovu

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Hello !

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" : for someone who had scruples reading too deep in a game, you're going deeper and deeper ;-)

That said, you're actually digging in the questions of what are people looking for when they play ? and what is fun ? which are tightly related. I'm not sure I perfectly understood :

IMO, if people consider something to be over performing they should avoid playing it rather than playing excessively. All it does is create a toxic environment where no one enjoys themselves except for the most stubborn of us.

Do you mean that if a player finds an OP build, that player shouldn't play it for the toxic environment reasons you stated ? As much as I agree with that idea, I also have to admit it's terribly naive it could happen. As long as it's allowed, players will take the easiest path. And by allowed, I'm not meaning some kind of law, but the fact that the tools are available, which is the balance issue.

In PvP and large scale WvW this is completely different. You want to play what's best because you want your team to be efficient. In small scale and solo WvW, losing has an extremely minimal effect on your world's score so it shouldn't matter what you choose to play. But unfortunately, more people care about winning than they do about improving, so everyone flocks to what ever's currently strongest.

True. As much as there's a pleasure in learning and improving, players mostly care about winning, mostly care about not losing, eventhough the latter doesn't imply anything game-related (rewards, score, etc.). This shows where the enjoyment is : being god-like and almighty. This also show that losing is strongly not enjoyable in WvW. It usually never is, but in my opinion, a loss could be more bearable if players had the feeling there was a chance (this is why gambles are so addictive, btw), they weren't helpless, or that the fight was fair (whatever fair means for anyone), and I'm not even talking about some toxic behaviours that ANet can't do much about. Not all fights are that way, of course, but that feelings tend to become more and more prevalent on the losing side.

To me, improving the "losing a fight" experience would actually help things, and maybe even be an incent to learn and improve to increase the odds to win a fight.

I find the most unfortunate thing is that so many people prefer to give in and play what's strongest rather than finding ways to beat it or challenging themselves with fighting it. I understand losing isn't fun, especially when you feel your opponent only won because their build is OP/more forgiving. But if everyone joins in on that and plays what's most broken, it ruins the fun for everyone.

I agree. Bolded part is the key, to me. It's very complex to make everyone happy and enjoy a game, and even more when there's a notion of competition, which means someone has to lose, yet enjoy the process.

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@"ThomasC.1056" said:It's very complex to make everyone happy and enjoy a game, and even more when there's a notion of competition, which means someone has to lose, yet enjoy the process.

Personally I get excited when I lose.Because when I lose, I know that person is good enough to defeat me and is someone I need to overcome.I like fights where my opponent pummels me and I will keep seeking them out for fights until I steal a win.

For example, this EV guild mesmer here has beaten me for 5 years straight.I added him and tracked him frequently using the mini map for fights.There was once I tracked and fought him repeatedly almost 50 times in a day and lost all the 50 times lol.I had pretty much given up trying to add him to my graveyard.But one day I bumped into him again and won...Sometimes when you let go, you'll get what you want XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zparFwBi_Do

Another example, this smurf ranger here thrashed me in the first fight and got me super excited.I thought he was just a low rank nub but he was very good.Throwing out stuns, bash, knock-backs, take-downs left and right.I was totally locked down.Eventually I tracked and defeated him on the 3rd try after I changed to a higher stun-break/stability build.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tylk9xY6TIY

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@"babazhook.6805" said:Just as an example. I am solo flipping the camp near a full tiered Bay on enemy homeland. I had tagged bay to prevent use of the waypoint.An enemy arrives on a warclaw as I am in the camp. I expect him to come and fight before I kill the rest of the guards and Dolyaks but he just sits nearby to watch.

He only comes into the camp to contest when 2 others on his team arrive both on warclaws. They can get on chat , say "someone flipping swc" and have time to wait because of the added speed warclaw provides.

That's exactly what I would do. Because I know I, as a main zergling have neither the build (something I could easily change), not the skill (not so easily changed) to fight and win against proficient roamer. The game also does not give me anything for going into a fight that I cannot win. The only thing I can hope for is a reward for failing to defend a camp, but I don't really need to go into the fight for that. Hitting once or twice and getting out of there is enough.Don't blame the Warclaw, don't blame the players: We all only do what works, defenders and attackers. If anything shed light on the game mechanics, that don't reward going into a fight. If there's no incentive, why would you do it?

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@len.7809 said:Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

The rest of your statements I can get behind however

Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

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@len.7809 said:

@len.7809 said:Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

The rest of your statements I can get behind however

Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

Dont remember saying anything about me porting to spawn bud, your assumption. I have enough mobility that if they did dismount me, I can usually get away or reposition myself should I stay to fight. That is fun to me. Making people think they have me right where they want me, then boom...down they go or away I go.

Even if outnumbered, i may still engage to see if I can down one and how fast. Bonus points if I get a kill and male it out alive. It's the thrill that I enjoy and will continue to enjoy. That's why I wvw to begin with. Fight to defend what's ours, fight to take what should be and fight to make sure what's ours stays ours or go down trying

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@len.7809 said:

@len.7809 said:Its not about new generation roamer or old generation roamer. You just can't solo roam anymore.

Well........not entirely true. I am primarily a solo roamer and not a DE aaaaaaaaaaand can usually (not 100% but maybe 80%) peace out before the roaming parties jump on me.

The rest of your statements I can get behind however

Is that fun for you? What makes roaming interesting is fighting players, if you port to respawn before they can touch you, that aint fun mate. Before all the trash patch, WaRclAw, you could kite them, kill them 1 by 1, or just have a marathon from nc to respawn,everything was somehow balanced. And fun.

Fun for whom ? It may not be fun for you to have your prey TP to safety, but the reason why the behaviour happens is your prey may be trying to avoid a fight that doesn't qualify as fun in its own conception.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:Also, being that you are on the map looking at T3 camps, why are you not taking them? Is this another case of "this is a problem!!.....For someone else to fix"?

I tried a few times alone. But always got killed by NPCs.Too tough alone to take a T3 camp.I asked for help.Sometimes people help me. Sometimes no one responds.But my issue is, why did we allow it to reach T3 in the first place.Why isn't anyone trying to cut supplies.I am sad.

Then you need to learn how to solo cap, solo capping a T3 camp is easy, way easier than solo capping a tower.

The same question you can ask yourself, why did you allow it to get T3?

In most cases the people on the map are not roamers, as roamers are very map aware, the people you are talking about are people who are waiting for tag to do something or break something open for them to go ktrain with. Also, as someone said above, EBG is somewhere most roamers avoid, even myself I tend to stick to BL's for the simple fact that EBG is very crowded, if you get into a fight with anyone, even open field, give it a few seconds and it will turn into a 2vs1 or more. Also avoiding marked is very hard with few exceptions on EBG, so you either have to go WAY around right in the path of where the enemy exits around their keeps and have people chase you, or you get marked and have 6+ people show up to the camp before you can cap because of how fast mount run speed is.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:While I understand that the environment is vastly different now and favors the defenders, it shouldn't deter us from roaming deep in enemy lands.Bring the challenge you know.I still think the new generation roamers need to be braver.Nothing stopped old guards like QQ or vT or YUM from roaming in enemy lands even now.

What I've seen in recent times is:A supply camp in friendly area is taken. Lets say Umberglade camp in EBG.A group of roamers go to take the camp back. Myself included.After the camp is taken, I ride north north into Orges area and enter the enemy side to take their supply camp (Pangloss camp).But the rest of the group don't.They teleport back to keep.Or they run back to the middle area and stand around waiting for some action to happen.

Because those people are probably running with tag, but got killed and wanted to do something before running back, or the blob is trying to get into something etc etc and they are just buying time to keep participation up. Lots of times these people sit in the keep waiting for a camp or sentry to flip and that is all they do. These are not roamers. If they are roamers, they are probably also just keeping up participation while looking for fights, they don't care about PPT or what tier something is, so long as they get some fights. Big time the older players who have been dealing with this ever declining game mode, after years of the same, you will start to understand the only interesting thing about the mode are the fights.

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:I understand the frustration of being killed by someone(s), especially repeatedly, when all you want to do is get to your group. But I assure you most aren't doing it to get a rise out of you, all they want is combat and you provide that, even if briefly.

I could buy that if I didn't see even the famous roamer guilds going after solos with no less than 3 of their own. I'm sure there's people that just want a straight up fight, but seems to me most just want to outnumber you, gank you, maybe even jump on you just to generate some salt cause they bored. I enjoy fighting like the next person, but there's a ton of times I've sat back on small fights because it was even or we outnumbered them, I don't often see that type of courtesy given back, nor should I expect it really, but again just tells me people aren't interested in anything but gank fights.

People go after bags, the fact you are out solo often has little to do with it. Roaming has little action and very few who are real roamers, so when people see someone, they chase. With warclaw even more people run, making gank squads more popular. Blobs gank far more than roamers do, the problem is that roamers just deal with being ganked by 10-15 that pull off the blob to kill them fighting a solo or capping a sentry. While those in the blob come here to cry about roamers because they have no idea how to fight. Sure, you have trolls who roam, and you have trolls in blobs, I can't tell you the times I have been steam rolled by 10+ that pulled off a zerg to kill me, throwing siege and sending PMs to me after.

The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights.

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@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I even once offered and paid a roamer 2 gold to flip an enemy T3 camp that was supplying SMC with speed yaks that we were trying to take.

This is just sad.

I'm pretty sure it was myself and a friend whom you paid. Was it Danelon a month or two ago? We split the 2g 50/50 hahaha

I don't recall his name but I think he was a white furred charr from the guild HD, and using a unique short-bow ranger build that is pretty tough.He beat me 3-0 in a duel at Armistice Bastion recently and I'm just glad I didn't put anymore gold on the line :'(

Yea that was us. Happy to keep BL camps flipped, but I'm not going to the eternal gankgrounds until something is done about marked.

Unless we're paid hahaha. Seriously though its legit the worst place to roam properly (4-5 people is not roaming).

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@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:The main difference being that I almost always respond to that action with something along the lines of "You seem very proud, would you like to test it out in a 1vs1?", to which I have not had a SINGLE taker, it is often just more salt PMs from them, or they just block me. The roamers and trolls however that do kill me in out numbered fights will more often than not accept a 1vs1. After a few fights everyone is often pretty friendly, because all they want are fights. After the duels, they often don't even bother me anymore, they got their fights and respect that i 1vs1ed them. Which is really what tells who is who, want to find out if they really are a roamer? PM them and ask to 1vs1, because they are probably just bored to death and looking to find some good fights

Too bad then that everyone except you react to a gank with "lol noob kitten kittening coward kitten you suck kitten kittens I would kitten your kitten in 1v1 kittens".

This is WvW. There are roamers that accept any danger and take any odds... And then there are duelist that choose to visit the eqvivalent of the handicap toilet.

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