Why is Core Revenant bad./worse than especs? PvP point of view.

[Greyjoy.5167]

Hi there,

I went through hundreds of topics where this question rised. Unfortunately, there were never an answer supported with some clarifications. It is always "Rev was designed around espec" and that's all.Why it is worse?For example, how harder it will be to play sPvP/duels as Core Dev/Inv/Ret Power Shiro, than Power Shiro Herald (any variation)?I would like to play below build in sPvP mostly. Please clarify to me why Herald build is better:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKglsU2SH-z5gXIZWB9GCtnAKNA

I just don't see it worse on paper. Is Facet mechanic that gamebreaking?

[otto.5684]

Herald offers better sustain. Easy access to might, swiftness, protection and fury. More damage than retribution. And a solid AOE CC. Also, one of the reasons why only herald/shiro works in PvP is that Glint has no energy cost for facets, which allows you to use skills far more freely, specifically CC break. Jailis and Mallyx have significant energy issues to be effective in sPvP. The CC break on them requires an energy fortune.

Core got better over the years, but it is a down grade in every possible way to herald.

[Catchyfx.5768]

@otto.5684 said:Herald offers better sustain. Easy access to might, swiftness, protection and fury. More damage than retribution. And a solid AOE CC. Also, one of the reasons why only herald/shiro works in PvP is that Glint has no energy cost for facets, which allows you to use skills far more freely, specifically CC break. Jailis and Mallyx have significant energy issues to be effective in sPvP. The CC break on them requires an energy fortune.

Core got better over the years, but it is a down grade in every possible way to herald.

Well this is perfectly said.

[Clownmug.8357]

Because Infuse Light exists.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Core rev is actually better at dueling than herald by a long shot but it is also a selfish spec. Herald is better due to some support+infuse light in teamfights

[lare.5129]

it is not bad. In pvp you can choose an class whit any yours build. Welcome.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@"Greyjoy.5167" said:Hi there,

I went through hundreds of topics where this question rised. Unfortunately, there were never an answer supported with some clarifications. It is always "Rev was designed around espec" and that's all.Why it is worse?For example, how harder it will be to play sPvP/duels as Core Dev/Inv/Ret Power Shiro, than Power Shiro Herald (any variation)?I would like to play below build in sPvP mostly. Please clarify to me why Herald build is better:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAwyZlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKglsU2SH-z5gXIZWB9GCtnAKNA

I just don't see it worse on paper. Is Facet mechanic that gamebreaking?

Its because the Revenant is built around Legend Swaps

And unfortunately the core Legends dont really synergize with each other and lack options to customize, so to get the best out of Legend Swap, you need to be able to choose two legends that fit the same role, and only way to do that for most is by pairing core legend with an Elite Spec legend.

Support Revenant for example, has only Centar Legend for support on core alone. They have to be paired with Glint, otherwise they will be swapping to a non support legend.

Condition Revenants have Demon(lol) for core only, and will need to be paired with Glint or Renegade to have any serious Condition Damage legends to swap to.

Its really bad game design honestly as I respectfully explained above.

[Aeolus.3615]

Deamon with jalis can provide a decent build, marshal, plaguedoctor etc

[Julius Seizure.4985]

Core with hybrid damage is great— Demon/Jalis has surprising pressure+sustain. In fact, this build is a better on point duelist than the meta Shiro/Glynt but worse at +1 and roaming obviously.

[Shao.7236]

Core is not bad or worse, it's the fact Herald grants you access to invulnerable frames that also "heals" which makes all the difference. The rest is comparable if not more potent on core compared both E-Specs.

Core is overall a better duelist in every way because in 1v1 situations where invulnerable frames are less useful in general or not necessary.Glint is "okay" legend in 1v1's but definitely has the glaring weakness if people are careful of the heal which can turn it even or worst than any core heals.Kalla is more of a objective oriented legend, it actually excels in bunking quite a bit, it's just unfortunate people do the absolute opposite while playing it.

In turn what really hurts Revenant is that people feel "forced" to use the legend that comes with the E-Spec which is totally unnecessary, there is a lot of good builds that can come out of using other legends together with the specialization. Such as a very resilient to condition Renegade shiro/jalis or a good duelist Herald with Sw/Sh + Staff Shiro/Jalis that can safely run Berserker stats with the choice of Devastation for even more damage, Retribution for increased sustain or Corruption to counter pressure conditions though it's not as great as just running Mallyx/Glint altogether, but the latter of traits/legends can do for interesting results.

[Doto.6357]

Core is as people have noted much better at 1v1s. Speaking strictly from a condi rev perspective, core is weaker than condi herald against condi classes but stronger against power classes. Ancient echo being added was super nice for core rev, you can totally play it.

[Thornwolf.9721]

It may also be noted that our ranged choices suck as well, we can't really go from melee to ranged anymore. Revenant is entirely tied to being in close range and hammer was good but now it hardly works at all. And short-bow is not a valid solution to not having a condi-ranged for core, Most classes can swap weapons and if you're power Herald you can for sure. But Condi rev in general? Not so much because there is nothing that really works, you could use hammer for mediocre dps and damage mitigation but its lack luster... so most still go staff for the abilities it has.

Frankly we need more weapon choices for core, and maybe even a new set of utilities to mix match for each legend so its not just "Take this legend, use a few skills and ignore the rest" because some of the skills we have access too are not worth spending the energy to use for the minor things they give.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Core jalis shiro power rev is really strong .except Right of the Great Dwarf is an absolutely trash stunbreak with it's insane cast time and excessive energy cost. Leaves the build really susceptble to focus fire in teamfights when in jalis and the dueling potential while better than standard herald still can't compete with the other sidenode builds.

[alain.1659]

Some specific traits and skills are not that good at core rev. Glint can always save your tushie if ypu time it right. Every skill does a decent job. Yet in jalis elite is problematic, ventari is hard to control and lacks stability and boon, shiro is sadly mandatory in several situations, mallyx is ok but it lacks a second legend and a ranged condi weapon to synergize with (yet it works well).

Several core traits are also problematic. Salvation has a passive thay only buffs ventari, corruption needs a tiny buff, retribution should include more tankier options in my opinion.

And the boons that are granted by glint are really a game changer. Other legends cannot share or provide that many boons.

[Fueki.4753]

@"Greyjoy.5167" said:"Rev was designed around espec" and that's all.Why it is worse?

Arenanet designed Revenant around Herald and Glint for the Aurene story that started in HoT and will plaque us until the story ends.Since they already were bringing back Glint in some form, they thought "how about we add a profession that is a throw back to prominent and semi-prominent GW1-characters?".Shiro was designed to harmonize with the power aspects of Herald, Ventari with the healing as aspect.Jalis and Mallyx came around because they needed to add something for conditions and something defensive.

As for Kalla, I doubt they really had a vision and just scraped something together, because they needed a second e-spec.Even though Pyre Fierceshot or even Aidan would have been more fitting than the Greatsword-wielding tigress that isn't even from GW1 (as far as i know), they chose her to have a second female legend and to show what they thought about Greatsword for Revenant.Zho and Reyna would have been viable choices, too, although not many might remember them and they simply weren't all that important.

That's just my personal interpretation, however.They probably will never give a straight answer, if any answer at all.

[Caeledh.5437]

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Its really bad game design honestly as I respectfully explained above.

Agree with you on all points.

I've always hated the refill energy on legend swap nonsense. Manically changing legends every 10 seconds for that is never going to be my idea of a good time. But it's what the game forces on you if you want to be optimal.

Sure, solo content doesn't require being optimal and I've done that without the stupid manic legend swapping. But group content is a significant component of MMOs and I'm not going to selfishly bring my sub-optimal play into that.

While the elite specs may be superior in effectiveness by design, they're totally inferior for gameplay and fun for me.

The base rev legend utilities offered a thief like freedom of play, with nearly all legend utilities having either no or an extremely short cooldown.

Hooray!

Both elite specs are full of cooldowns.

Bait and switch. Do not love that. It's why I still haven't bought PoF.

[narcx.3570]

Core Rev is way stronger than Renegade... It's even better at being a meme build.

[Virdo.1540]

Herald has a immunity.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Core Rev is pretty darn good tbh, at least from my perspective. All of the core lines have a purpose and can be quite effective, and while there are a handful of dud traits, it's really nice to be able to take both Invocation AND Retribution while maintaining damage via Devastation or Corruption. Ancient Echo is also a really solid skill, especially on Jalis and Mallyx. Although they have arguably dumbed down the class more, I really enjoy a lot of traits they have introduced and/or modified, like Song of the Mists, Charged Mists, Dwarven Battle Training, Steadfast Rejuvenation, and Pulsating Pestilence. The new Salvation middle traits are also pretty cool, but I find they work better on Herald than on (most) core builds.

[Aeolus.3615]

@narcx.3570 said:Core Rev is way stronger than Renegade... It's even better at being a meme build.

Deamon is a nice build with imo, assassin is more meme towards 1 pony macro trick or die...