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Appeal of the Russian-speaking community Guild Wars 2


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@Vinceman.4572 said:The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff?? who support now latin-cyrillic ? no one ? so why should be hire new support stuff if people write cyrillic instead latin-cyrillic???

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@lare.5129 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff?? who support now latin-cyrillic ? no one ? so why should be hire new support stuff if people write cyrillic instead latin-cyrillic???

Yes, no one. So, they don't release the demon of enlarging the potential pool of diverse insults and stick with that. It's a rational and financial situation overall.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:And who controls the chat reports?and who control it now then it writed to someone on translate latin alfabet ? :) or something positive like "4e, berega poputal?"no one ? So why we should care if anyway this is unknow for something how it looks ?

Thanks for supporting my argument. Why expand the chat possibilities that only cater to a certain subset of the player base if you already cannot control everything you want right now? The majority of players are communicating in english due to being native speakers or being able to speak english. The next subsets are german, spain and french (I personally don't know about the chinese market and I guess no one knows here) and Arenanet have people for them in their staff. So, for supporting cyrillic chat they have to hire new support stuff a thing which is most likely not to happen if we take a look at what has happened to the company this year. It's about money and therefore I doubt that Arenanet has the capacities of realizing it.

Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

They don't have support for Polish or Swedish. That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because most of the abusive comments are in english and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money. Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

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@lare.5129 said:

@Vinceman.4572 said:And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters?yes, it should be MAIN priority IF target attract new players. I know - this is the best way.

Main priority should be what benefits all players, not just a minority. And nobody knows if it really would attract new players if they add Cyrillic. I mean it wasn’t a problem for the last seven years.

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Player 1 submits ticket for verbal abuse, the text of which is in Cyrillic .

Player 1: "Anet, player 2 was extremely abusive in chat."Player 2: "I only said light blue."

now if only there were a staff of employees that understood the nuance of the language and the cultural backgrounds.

To release the alphabet without any support is to say "Here you go. You're on your own as we have no way to help you at all. If you send support tickets they'll be deleted as we have no way of reading them. Any chat reports will be ignored as we don't understand what's in the chat. If you find a name offensive, not anything we can do. We have no idea what's going on with that name. If chat becomes a troll fest, there's nothing we can do outside of shutting it down, because we have no method of monitoring it."

In terms of chat using Latin characters, it's already problematic. However, the liability is minuscule if present at all. To release an alphabet with total disregard for any support or customer care is wildly irresponsible. If you cannot see the unequivocation of having making the game in English, using the Latin alphabet, and and trying to figure the best way to support players typing in a different language with said alphabet, c.f. implementing an alphabet with no support at all, then I'm not sure what else to say. Yes there's a Latin alphabet, but that's because this is the alphabet English uses. You have to be able to see why throwing in every alphabet, throwing your hands up and exclaiming "Oh well!" is not the morally correct thing to do.

side note: can't have a chat filter if no one knows the language. considering the game's rating, not having a chat filter is not an option.

That being said. I fully support all attempts to expand the language support of all products and services. Globalization is a good thing. That being said, it has to be done correctly and responsibly. This means that requests are made in the spirit of this expectation (that it is a large undertaking with massive implications requiring thorough consideration and due diligence). As long as you understand everything that goes into implementing alphabets and languages, and the time and resources requried for such an undertaking, then there's nothing more to discuss on the matter. Spreading misinformation that this is a simple thing to do that takes no time or effort is objectively irresponsible.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:

I think that you are conflating chat support with localisation. This is not what this thread calls for. This thread specifically asks for Cyrillic script support in chats, i.e. players want to be able to write and read in chat using Cyrillic alphabets. No one asks for game translation or support in their native languages.

Ol, if you didn’t notice, then my post was moved to this thread, and in it I’m talking not only about chat, but about localization. And she was asked from the very sale of the game, on this forum and there was a petition to the address of Anet.>

@Ben K.6238 said:

Vietnamese and Tagalog use Latin script for example, and I'd be pretty surprised if ANet has support staff for either of those languages.

If it's not an officially supported language, the company will usually do a best-effort translation using translation software. This does not always provide a great result - I have first-hand experience trying to work this out with Russian chat, which has some rather complicated grammar and complicated profanity to go with it - but game companies usually stipulate in the EULA that they can't guarantee good behaviour from other players.

Ben, automatic translation is really not a panacea. Google, my translator (through which I am writing to you) debugged only this year so that he understood the difference in grammar. Although he is still. He doesn’t understand that if “You” is capitalized, then it will be translated into English, like “Sir” or “Ma'am”.

And playing, using a translator in a browser, is just troublesome. You must go from the game window to the browser window and vice versa.

@Vinceman.4572 said:And who controls the chat reports? I mean every community has its toxicity and if I'm thinking about CS and others, holy moly I heard more russian rages than english ones. So, even if those insults are not understood by the majority of the GW2 community how are you handling that? I think you need more than one support employee to manage all the chat reports and now we are talking about a significant amount of money, not 1-2k dollars once.

It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

@yoni.7015 said:

Main priority should be what benefits all players, not just a minority. And nobody knows if it really would attract new players if they add Cyrillic. I mean it wasn’t a problem for the last seven years.

Why, do you consider it a minority if this language is spoken in 15 countries?

  People refuse to buy the game because a translation has not been made. They swear, sitting at the computer, from the fact that it is not clear what the video is talking about, or what the NPC wants with a heart. What can’t be understood, the text of the chat is written in English, or it translates the Russian Latin alphabet.

Well, of course, there were no problems, and about them, here from the very start of the game, they did not write.

@Vinceman.4572 said:

And who controls the chat reports? I mean every community has its toxicity and if I'm thinking about CS and others, holy moly I heard more russian rages than english ones.

Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

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@"noviiparen.8163" said:Hello from Russia, My friends!

In this video, the Russian-speaking gaming community of Guild Wars 2 request ArenaNet to start supporting Cyrillic letters in the game. I know that these problems not only Russian players , but also many other countries. Unfortunately, I cannot be responsible for everyone, but I can be responsible for those with whom I play. Do not remain indifferent to our problem and support our appeal!

How much will you pay?

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Why, do you consider it a minority if this language is spoken in 15 countries?

  People refuse to buy the game because a translation has not been made. They swear, sitting at the computer, from the fact that it is not clear what the video is talking about, or what the NPC wants with a heart. What can’t be understood, the text of the chat is written in English, or it translates the Russian Latin alphabet.

Well, of course, there were no problems, and about them, here from the very start of the game, they did not write!

Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

You only need a little bit of English to understand the game, it is not that difficult to understand.

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@yoni.7015 said:Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

And what percentage of those that are on the EU servers speak Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Belarusian, Serbian (the list can be continued for a long time) ?? That is, those whose language is in Cyrillic, and not in the Latin alphabet.I am also on the EU server and my alphabet is Cyrillic. Or did you decide that Russia has its own server for this game?)))

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@Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:

@yoni.7015 said:Because it is a minority, most players on EU server are fine with Latin. And the majority ingame doesn’t use Cyrillic, so they would not have any benefit. And as I said priority should be what benefits all players.

And what percentage of those that are on the EU servers speak Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Belarusian, Serbian (the list can be continued for a long time) ?? That is, those whose language is in Cyrillic, and not in the Latin alphabet.I am also on the EU server and my alphabet is Cyrillic. Or did you decide that Russia has its own server for this game?)))

I don’t know what percentage it is, do you? but I still believe that the majority in EU server uses Latin alphabet and can communicate in English.

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@"Lara Kroft Rus.3954" said:It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

Of course, but Arenanet can take action easily since English is the language of the company and every employee of the company is able to speak it. So, overall you don't need specific personnel for that.

Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

You don't understand. It won't matter to me. That's a difference. A russian player would be able to insult me and I just wouldn't care because - as you have pointed out correctly - I don't understand his expressions. Maybe I would block him if he's spamming but that would be a different thing and not the main problem here.The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive? Therefore you should need support because otherwise this player will harm the game experience of other russian speaking players.Inb4: "But he could do that now with latin letters as well." - I'm aware of that and I'm sure Arenanet as well but why open another Pandora's box if things are working without it. It's not that the russian speaking community isn't able to communicate in English as almost everyone in this world is doing nowadays when affected with globalization. :)

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@"Lara Kroft Rus.3954" said:It is possible to insult a person and his country in pure English.

Of course, but Arenanet can take action easily since English is the language of the company and every employee of the company is able to speak it. So, overall you don't need specific personnel for that.

Vinceman, you are absolutely wrong in making such statements. Are you a linguist? Are you an expert? Do you know Russian? The answer is you don’t know.

As you were told, when the players write in Latin, you can read, but you can’t understand what this or that word means in English.But you managed to make such a controversial statement that there is sheer swearing.You know that according to the grammar of the Russian language, greeting a person, the sign "!" Is placed at the end of the greeting. ? You saw a short phrase with this sign and interpreted it falsely as a curse.

You don't understand. It won't matter to me. That's a difference. A russian player would be able to insult me and I just wouldn't care because - as you have pointed out correctly - I don't understand his expressions. Maybe I would block him if he's spamming but that would be a different thing and not the main problem here.The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive? Therefore you should need support because otherwise this player will harm the game experience of other russian speaking players.Inb4: "But he could do that now with latin letters as well." - I'm aware of that and I'm sure Arenanet as well but why open another Pandora's box if things are working without it. It's not that the russian speaking community isn't able to communicate in English as almost everyone in this world is doing nowadays when affected with globalization. :)

We all have freedom of speech (as some people like to say here). This is called democracy. We have the right to ask for the addition of Cyrillic in the chat. At least because the official game purchase page for the Russian community is made in ... guess what language? Someone in this thread against our appeal? Explain the reason sincerely please. and don't be afraid to get a warning.

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@"Drevin.5392" said:We all have freedom of speech (as some people like to say here). This is called democracy. We have the right to ask for the addition of Cyrillic in the chat. At least because the official game purchase page for the Russian community is made in ... guess what language? Someone in this thread against our appeal? Explain the reason sincerely please. and don't be afraid to get a warning.

I haven't refused the wish of the russian speaking community. On the contrary I upvoted in one of the threads and wrote that nothing speaks against the installation from generell player view - mine included.I'm just discussing why it is unlikely and not that "easy" to get your wish done otherwise it would already be present in the game, don't you think? It's definitely a business decision peppered with rational reasons and not a "We don't care." or "We don't want." decision. In the end it's all about the moneyz.So, totally understandable that you want to have cyrillic support but just think about the other side: an american company that has numbers of their players and earnings around the world in line with a budget scale.And no I'm not afraid of getting a warning, already got enough over the years. B)And the answer to the question why the purchase page can be read in Russian is obvious, n'est-ce pas? And btw. it's only the purchase page if I'm not mistaken. It can't be more obvious...Here comes the money...money money money money money.

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@Vinceman.4572 said:

@Ol Nik.2518 said:Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

They don't have support for Polish or Swedish.

Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because most of the abusive comments are in english and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money.

You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Ol Nik.2518 said:Why does ArenaNet have to hire new support staff for languages with Cyrillic scripts but not languages with Latin script?Why is it fine to add full chat support for Polish or Swedish but not for Bulgarian?

NB: Polish and Swedish require sets of diacritics not used in German, French, or Spanish, therefore, it is technically possible to limit chat only to officially supported languages.

They don't have support for Polish or Swedish.

Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

That's the point here. And why is that? Because the swedish players generally are very well educated when it comes to the english language and the polish base is just not big enough that they deserve special treatment. Again, a business decision, it's not about being impolite or so. Things cost money and since the russian speaking player base is a bit larger than a swedish or polish one we all know that including cyrillic letters would have an impact on the chat and especially on chat abuse and reportings. That has nothing to do with the russian speaking community being more toxic or have a bigger potential. No, I would say it's the same but at the moment you can oversee abusive behavior quite well because
most of the abusive comments are in english
and therefore can be sanctioned pretty easily due to English being the world language. So, if you load in another impactful language you load into more necessary supervising and that costs money.

You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

Money that Anet haven't invested yet as it seems. They have their reasons and we don't know about them but in the end it'll be one thing: a business decision. And look at the recent developments for the game. Do you really think their priority right now is to implement cyrillic letters? I rather believe they have other worries than such an implementation.At the moment they need to assure that the revenues aren't sinking into a bottomless abyss.

I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

Quoted wrong person please delete.

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@Lara Kroft Rus.3954 said:@"Ben K.6238" said:

Vietnamese and Tagalog use Latin script for example, and I'd be pretty surprised if ANet has support staff for either of those languages.

If it's not an officially supported language, the company will usually do a best-effort translation using translation software. This does not always provide a great result - I have first-hand experience trying to work this out with Russian chat, which has some rather complicated grammar and complicated profanity to go with it - but game companies usually stipulate in the EULA that they can't guarantee good behaviour from other players.

Ben, automatic translation is really not a panacea. Google, my translator (through which I am writing to you) debugged only this year so that he understood the difference in grammar. Although he is still. He doesn’t understand that if “You” is capitalized, then it will be translated into English, like “Sir” or “Ma'am”.

And playing, using a translator in a browser, is just troublesome. You must go from the game window to the browser window and vice versa.

I know - but I wasn't suggesting players use Google Translate or something similar. That's just what moderation staff have to do if they encounter a report for a language they don't support. This problem exists regardless of whether the character set is supported, because it's possible to write Russian in normal Cyrillic or transliterated into Latin script, and most of ANet's staff can't read either of those forms.

It's also possible that ANet will ignore a report if the language is unsupported. ANet's terms of service do not require them to act on every report, but I believe they will if the effort required is reasonable.

I've seen the problems in translating between English and Russian too - the worst one was translating "character" to something like "символу" instead of "персонаж" for example.

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@Ol Nik.2518 said:Polish and Swedish languages are fully supported in the chat, i.e. all letters with all diacritics can be typed and are displayed properly. There is nothing in the game that prevents Polish or Swedish users from communicating in their native languages in a manner they are used to. I am not talking about technical support or moderation.

That doesn't play any role in this case and has no relevance to the topic.

You incorrectly assume that people who cannot type in their native alphabet use English in chats. They do not. They use what is called transliteration, i.e. they use Latin letters to represent sounds of their native language. If anything, the introduction of Cyrillic script will make chat supervision and moderation much easier because automatic translation software does not work with transliterations well.

If you read properly you would have noticed that I've already adressed this issue. But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

There might be a higher number of chat abuse reports, but that would be the result of new players joining the game, which is good for the bottom line, isn't it?

Why should newer players responsible for chat abuse in the first place. That makes no sense and is again of no relevance.

I believe a statement like 'I do not want ArenaNet to spend money on the implementation of Cyrillic script in chat' reflects your position better. You are not an ArenaNet employee and do not know what their priorities are.

Difficulties in reading on your side? I said I support it but you and others just don't accept that there are maybe issues for them to not being able to correspond to your wishes. And I repeat: I don't think they are not supporting it because they don't want to or aren't able to use an easy way of software package implementation (or anything related you would need).The long history of this 7 year old game has shown that their decisions are depending on capacity issues in every direction you look, be it bug fixing, shipping out new content in an appropriate time frame, communicating with players at all for example the terrible support in the other international forums and so on.My question now would be: Do you think they hate the russian speaking community? I don't. So there must be reasons why they haven't implemented it. And yeah, would be cool to get a statement from them but guess what: They most likely won't say anything as that's how they were behaving over the last years in many many cases where people wanted to have an answer. They don't treat you better or worse, that's all.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:But I ask you one question: How often do you read transliterations in the official map chats (not group, squad or anything else)? I'm on EU and I must tell you: Almost never. People are mostly using the english language to communicate on the EU servers. Of course I can't speak for NA servers, although it would surprise me if the population of russian speaking players would be bigger than on EU.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone speaking Russian on the NA servers (aside from the English speakers saying "cyka blyat" as a joke). I have seen frequent WvW map chat in Korean though, and occasionally Spanish, Portuguese and Tagalog. I've seen a few recruitment messages from DB guilds in traditional Chinese but haven't actually seen anyone use it to communicate.

English is by far the most common language used for general communication though, with Korean occasionally taking over in late night WvW.

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@"Vinceman.4572" said:The thing is: What is Arenanet doing if that player insults his own community, so to speak members that communicate(d) with him in russian language and he is getting very abusive?so what point for someone if this is do in "translate cyrilic language" or in cyrilic language in pure letters ? Anyway non languaest non undesrnat what talk xD

ohhh. I know. You not read about that this discussion and how it look.I explain.Most european cyrilic plaeyrs anyway don't know English. They know 1 or two languages, but non English. Ofc present some cool like me, who can read and sometimes understand, but most not.ok, So now people write how it spell in cilic wiht some abstraction in latin letters. In this mode some word have more variantions ..( sometimes think "what?? aaa"And there is no any defirence for non-crylic player if he see text in latinized cyrilic or in pure cyrilic.One one point for non cyrilic: if in cyrilc - easy understand that this is not random letters.

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@"lare.5129" said:

Most european cyrilic plaeyrs anyway don't know English. They know 1 or two languages, but non English. Ofc present some cool like me, who can read and sometimes understand, but most not.

It's not 80s. Most eastern "cyrillic" european players know basic English. It's not something cool or outstanding.

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