Stealth Rework 2.0

[XenesisII.1540]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Protection - Reduces direct damage by 33%. It does not affect Condition Damage dealt by conditions or any other source of health loss.New overpowered boon - 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

So does this new 20% damage mitigation also stack with protection? I'm sure that would be great for groups.Not that stealth needs anymore buffs at all.Also your sample is outdated, it's scrapper stealth these days, not mesmer mass invis.

WoW has better stealth mechanics than this game.

Could they stack? Probably. Could it be a boon that provides only condition damage reduction instead of both direct and condi? That could work too.

Regardless of what would be meta, stealth skills become more balanced for combat and provide an extra function that’s useful during combat situations.

I didn't mean it would be great for groups in a good way, rolling into a fight with 53% direct damage and 20% condi damage mitigation would be beyond... beep. In fact it'll make group stealth required spamming. The game doesn't need anymore boons and it doesn't need yet another combat mechanic tacked on especially one involving stealth.

Stealth needs no buffs, thieves already get a ton of buffs for stealth from traits, there's no need to add another equal trade. The perception buff from concentration isn't even going to be useful because it's mostly zerg or troll tank builds use concentration in their builds, most roamers don't unless again it's a troll build like boonbeast or tank tempest, overall it would just be better to just stack more toughness or vitality instead of concentration to survive hits.

Half good idea, execution needs work.

[thepenmonster.3621]

Why should my PvE experience with the profession have to eat a big nerf because you guys can't win a fight in WvW?

[iKeostuKen.2738]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:Why should my PvE experience with the profession have to eat a big nerf because you guys can't win a fight in WvW?

Better question. Why are PvE and PvP balances shared in the first place?

[thepenmonster.3621]

@iKeostuKen.2738 said:

@thepenmonster.3621 said:Why should my PvE experience with the profession have to eat a big nerf because you guys can't win a fight in WvW?

Better question. Why are PvE and PvP balances shared in the first place?

Ayuh. I have been banging at this drum for a while. Balance cannot be achieved until the game modes are disconnected. Their goals are incompatible.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@kash.9213 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Personally I don't have any issue with stealth as it is. I'm perfectly fine with thiefs, mesmers, rangers, engineer and whatever profession having stealth using it to sneak around or simply save their live when things ain't going as expected.

What bother me is any kind of burst from stealth. If ANet just nerf damage done from stealth in PvP/WvW I'd be perfectly fine with stealth as it is right now.

Your suggestion doing the total opposite of that, I disagree with it.

Why would I stealth if my Stealth Attack wasn't useful? I'm not stealthing to you to have a conversation. If you're a dev and you want to gut Stealth Attack damage then let it take all of your boons and passives and then buff Revealed Training and make that and Flickering Shadows baseline.

People main issue is that the TTK (time to kill) is ridiculously low at the moment. Do you really think that being one shot by someone that is stealth is fun? You certainly think that killing someone this way is fun but it's not for the one killed. There is no fight, just someone that you don't even see that downed you in an instant and then stomp you.

I'm not a dev and to be honest I despised how the dev have "balanced" their game up to now. They are always focusing on numbers when the mechanisms are flawed. Thiefs one shoting from stealth have been an issue and source of complains since the vanilla game and it is the main reason why the thiefs feel that they are always nerfed patchs after patchs. Their choice to lock burst damage behind stealth is the reason why the thief is nerfed, If you want to fix that you have to strike at the problem not make stupid number tweeks on traits or out of stealth weapon skill.

As for your question as why you'd stealth: "For defense, for mobility, to cleanse yourself, to heal yourself, to get out of jail... etc." This is already more reasons than enough for stealth to be valuable.

Thank You!!

[Mikhael.2391]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:Protection - Reduces direct damage by 33%. It does not affect Condition Damage dealt by conditions or any other source of health loss.New overpowered boon - 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

So does this new 20% damage mitigation also stack with protection? I'm sure that would be great for groups.Not that stealth needs anymore buffs at all.Also your sample is outdated, it's scrapper stealth these days, not mesmer mass invis.

WoW has better stealth mechanics than this game.

Could they stack? Probably. Could it be a boon that provides only condition damage reduction instead of both direct and condi? That could work too.

Regardless of what would be meta, stealth skills become more balanced for combat and provide an extra function that’s useful during combat situations.

Except that... Your first idea will either change the supposedly evasive/deceptive class' playstyle into a facetanking one or be simply irrelevant. It just doesn't work for thief.

To back up swagger, a nerf will happen to stealth and it should.

From all other mmos i played you cannot stealth in combat and if you do amy fluff damage should breal stealth right away.

I have a thief and i made it to use all broken builds there are and its too easy. Perma stealth and one shot eas with deadeye, the same with DD with its perma inturrupts and boon strip and ofc the evade master thief with condis or the staff kung fu master dodging and hitting damm hard.

Thief has 4 major builds that have litle to no counter, how can you say its fine?

Even players that are objective with the game and play the class say its broken.

Its so much more rewarding and allows mistakes than any other class in game.

At least for me it was.

[Sobx.1758]

@Mikhael.2391 said:[whole post]

First of all, I'd like to know how's that at all related to my post you're answering to? Literally, which part of your post relates to which part of my post? Because I can't see it tbh.

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Protection - Reduces direct damage by 33%. It does not affect Condition Damage dealt by conditions or any other source of health loss.New overpowered boon - 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

So does this new 20% damage mitigation also stack with protection? I'm sure that would be great for groups.Not that stealth needs anymore buffs at all.Also your sample is outdated, it's scrapper stealth these days, not mesmer mass invis.

WoW has better stealth mechanics than this game.

Could they stack? Probably. Could it be a boon that provides only condition damage reduction instead of both direct and condi? That could work too.

Regardless of what would be meta, stealth skills become more balanced for combat and provide an extra function that’s useful during combat situations.

Except that... Your first idea will either change the supposedly evasive/deceptive class' playstyle into a facetanking one or be simply irrelevant. It just doesn't work for thief.

will happen

I asked before and I'll keep asking -give me any reliable source on that statement. Otherwise stop stating it as a fact, because at this point it's nothing more than your wish.

From all other mmos i played you cannot stealth in combat and if you do amy fluff damage should breal stealth right away.

gw2 isn't "other mmos". And believe it or not, that's not the only thing that's different from "other mmos"! :open_mouth:Overally stop using other games as an argument. You can use them as an inspiration for ideas, sure. But not as a validation of the change you want to see.

I have a thief and i made it to use all broken builds there are and its too easy. Perma stealth and one shot eas with deadeye, the same with DD with its perma inturrupts and boon strip and ofc the evade master thief with condis or the staff kung fu master dodging and hitting kitten hard.

Thief so broken and easy that you keep playing necro and one-shot guard. Cool. :)

Thief has 4 major builds that have litle to no counter, how can you say its fine?

"4 uncounterable builds" and yet thief isn't even (from what I see, that is) the most played/popular class. Not to mention if that was the case, it should be the only class we see in the game.

Even players that are objective with the game and play the class say its broken.

?I like how your subjective opinion can decide who's "objective" and who's not based mostly on the fact they have opinions similar to yours. :astonished:

Its so much more rewarding and allows mistakes than any other class in game.

At least for me it was.

No, it's not and it doesn't.And, again, I'm not sure how you thought anything you wrote here answered to the post you quoted. Feel free to fill the gaps for me.

[Mikhael.2391]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:[whole post]

First of all, I'd like to know how's that at all related to my post you're answering to? Literally, which part of your post relates to which part of my post? Because I can't see it tbh.

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Protection - Reduces direct damage by 33%. It does not affect Condition Damage dealt by conditions or any other source of health loss.New overpowered boon - 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

So does this new 20% damage mitigation also stack with protection? I'm sure that would be great for groups.Not that stealth needs anymore buffs at all.Also your sample is outdated, it's scrapper stealth these days, not mesmer mass invis.

WoW has better stealth mechanics than this game.

Could they stack? Probably. Could it be a boon that provides only condition damage reduction instead of both direct and condi? That could work too.

Regardless of what would be meta, stealth skills become more balanced for combat and provide an extra function that’s useful during combat situations.

Except that... Your first idea will either change the supposedly evasive/deceptive class' playstyle into a facetanking one or be simply irrelevant. It just doesn't work for thief.

will happen

I asked before and I'll keep asking -give me any reliable source on that statement. Otherwise stop stating it as a fact, because at this point it's nothing more than your wish.

From all other mmos i played you cannot stealth in combat and if you do amy fluff damage should breal stealth right away.

gw2 isn't "other mmos". And believe it or not, that's not the only thing that's different from "other mmos"! :open_mouth:Overally stop using other games as an argument. You can use them as an inspiration for ideas, sure. But not as a validation of the change you want to see.

I have a thief and i made it to use all broken builds there are and its too easy. Perma stealth and one shot eas with deadeye, the same with DD with its perma inturrupts and boon strip and ofc the evade master thief with condis or the staff kung fu master dodging and hitting kitten hard.

Thief so broken and easy that you keep playing necro and one-shot guard. Cool. :)

Thief has 4 major builds that have litle to no counter, how can you say its fine?

"4 uncounterable builds" and yet thief isn't even (from what I see, that is) the most played/popular class. Not to mention if that was the case, it should be the only class we see in the game.

Even players that are objective with the game and play the class say its broken.

?I like how

your subjective opinion

can decide who's "objective" and who's not based mostly on the fact they have opinions similar to yours. :astonished:

Its so much more rewarding and allows mistakes than any other class in game.

At least for me it was.

No, it's not and it doesn't.And, again, I'm not sure how you thought anything you wrote here answered to the post you quoted. Feel free to fill the gaps for me.

You will remember this post and ehat swagger and i said when the nerf to stealth comes.

Regarding the other broken builds hopefully CAL will have a look at them and make them usefull with more counter play to it .

I play one shot guardian to show the absurd damage in wvw but unlike thief if that burst fails i die. There is no stealth to get my coward ass out of there as other classes with one shot builds.

Reaper will not be mentioned here as the class survival is soemthing everyone knows well.

And yes the class the class is very rewarding and has a lot of free out of jail cards. I get bored playing it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Mikhael.2391 said:[whole post]

First of all, I'd like to know how's that at all related to my post you're answering to? Literally, which part of your post relates to which part of my post? Because I can't see it tbh.

@Mikhael.2391 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Protection - Reduces direct damage by 33%. It does not affect Condition Damage dealt by conditions or any other source of health loss.New overpowered boon - 20% damage reduction to Direct and Condition damages while in effect.

So does this new 20% damage mitigation also stack with protection? I'm sure that would be great for groups.Not that stealth needs anymore buffs at all.Also your sample is outdated, it's scrapper stealth these days, not mesmer mass invis.

WoW has better stealth mechanics than this game.

Could they stack? Probably. Could it be a boon that provides only condition damage reduction instead of both direct and condi? That could work too.

Regardless of what would be meta, stealth skills become more balanced for combat and provide an extra function that’s useful during combat situations.

Except that... Your first idea will either change the supposedly evasive/deceptive class' playstyle into a facetanking one or be simply irrelevant. It just doesn't work for thief.

will happen

I asked before and I'll keep asking -give me any reliable source on that statement. Otherwise stop stating it as a fact, because at this point it's nothing more than your wish.

From all other mmos i played you cannot stealth in combat and if you do amy fluff damage should breal stealth right away.

gw2 isn't "other mmos". And believe it or not, that's not the only thing that's different from "other mmos"! :open_mouth:Overally stop using other games as an argument. You can use them as an inspiration for ideas, sure. But not as a validation of the change you want to see.

I have a thief and i made it to use all broken builds there are and its too easy. Perma stealth and one shot eas with deadeye, the same with DD with its perma inturrupts and boon strip and ofc the evade master thief with condis or the staff kung fu master dodging and hitting kitten hard.

Thief so broken and easy that you keep playing necro and one-shot guard. Cool. :)

Thief has 4 major builds that have litle to no counter, how can you say its fine?

"4 uncounterable builds" and yet thief isn't even (from what I see, that is) the most played/popular class. Not to mention if that was the case, it should be the only class we see in the game.

Even players that are objective with the game and play the class say its broken.

?I like how

your subjective opinion

can decide who's "objective" and who's not based mostly on the fact they have opinions similar to yours. :astonished:

Its so much more rewarding and allows mistakes than any other class in game.

At least for me it was.

No, it's not and it doesn't.And, again, I'm not sure how you thought anything you wrote here answered to the post you quoted. Feel free to fill the gaps for me.

You will remember this post and ehat swagger and i said when the nerf to stealth comes.

Maybe I will, but for now you can remember last ~7 years.

Regarding the other broken builds hopefully CAL will have a look at them and make them usefull with more counter play to it .

Cool, I don't know what you're responding to.

I play one shot guardian to show the absurd damage in wvw but unlike thief if that burst fails i die. There is no stealth to get my coward kitten out of there as other classes with one shot builds.

Ah. So you play it just "to show something", but you don't complain about it.On the other hand you complain about thief at the same time not "showing anything" by playing it. Interesting logic, but whatever you say I guess.

Reaper will not be mentioned here as the class survival is soemthing everyone knows well.

It already is mentioned, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And yes the class the class is very rewarding and has a lot of free out of jail cards. I get bored playing it.

It's as "rewarding" as pretty much any other, you really need to elaborate on your broad meaningless claims.

---

Still not sure how your previous answer was in any way connected to what my post said, but seeing you completely dropped that question I assume you don't know either. So... next time please don't quote me if you don't plan to relate to anything I wrote, because what's the point of doing that.

[Doug.4930]

Hey Potential Anet dev, just me again posting a relevant screenshot:

Thanks have a nice day :)

[miguelsil.6324]

I play one shot guardian to show the absurd damage in wvw but unlike thief if that burst fails i die. There is no stealth to get my coward kitten out of there as other classes with one shot builds.

Ah. So you play it just "to show something", but you don't complain about it.On the other hand you complain about thief at the same time not "showing anything" by playing it. Interesting logic, but whatever you say I guess.

Let me elaborate, remove that one shot build my guard have and also remove all of thiefs broken one shot, perma stealth, perma evade and near perma inturrupt build.

Sorry if it does not seem fair that guardian (core) should be nerfed on one build while thief has more rewarding builds. About FB just nerf the whole elite that i refuse to play due to be so easy.

And by "not showing something" do you mean you would like a video of my bad un-experienced thief one shotting people or using any of the other broken builds? I m sure I can make one, meanwhile if you search on youtube like lord hizen staff build you see how litle skill that requires and how rewarding it is.

[Sobx.1758]

Just curious, why are you posting from multiple forum accounts?

@"miguelsil.6324" said:

I play one shot guardian to show the absurd damage in wvw but unlike thief if that burst fails i die. There is no stealth to get my coward kitten out of there as other classes with one shot builds.

Ah. So you play it just "to show something", but you don't complain about it.On the other hand you complain about thief at the same time not "showing anything" by playing it. Interesting logic, but whatever you say I guess.

Let me elaborate, remove that one shot build my guard have and also remove all of thiefs broken one shot, perma stealth, perma evade and near perma inturrupt build.

Start playing the class you're complaining about before you make claims that you only play easy one shot guard build to "prove something", while in reality you're complaining about multiple classes and builds, but not say a word about the class you're supposedly "playing to prove something". It's pretty clear you're just making excuses now.

Sorry if it does not seem fair that guardian (core) should be nerfed on one build while thief has more rewarding builds. About FB just nerf the whole elite that i refuse to play due to be so easy.

ah, so you're talking about "just one core build". Except "whole elite FB" (because you don't care about it, which isn't really an argument btw) and the obvious DH build, right? Tell me you're not biased here, huh.Also you still didn't touch on how those builds are "more rewarding", which was actually what you were supposed to elaborate on in the first place. You keep throwing those buzz words and at this moment it still means nothing. How many times do I have to ask a quesiton for you to actually answer instead of avoiding it and conveniently just responding to 1/3rd of my posts?

And by "not showing something" do you mean you would like a video of my bad un-experienced thief one shotting people or using any of the other broken builds? I m sure I can make one

I mean you say it's so easy and rewarding that it's boring, so how can you still be "unexperienced" (or, to be more accurate: how can this be an issue?)? But sure, lets go with that, post some unedited consecutive fights, so we don't get some occasional pve/afk stomps or smacking people that are alrerady busy fighting.

[miguelsil.6324]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Just curious, why are you posting from multiple forum accounts?

Im lazy and have this account signed in at my work pc.

I mean you say it's so easy and rewarding that it's boring, so how can you still be "unexperienced" (or, to be more accurate: how can this be an issue?)? But sure, lets go with that, post some unedited consecutive fights, so we don't get some occasional pve/afk stomps or smacking people that are alrerady busy fighting.

I can do, will post a new one shot video for guardian and will try and have the patience to roam for a bit with the rifle and use stealth once i check with someone i know what gear is needed since i do not enjoy thief that much other than sword pistol or pistol pistol.

Also i did say i do not care about firebrand as the elite is way over the top, just remove it completely for all i care until its fixed/balanced. DH is far from OP, its not overwhelming and longbow as you may have noticed is not what it was before pof with new power creep and sustain.

[Sobx.1758]

Yh... you still didn't touch on how those builds are "more rewarding", which was actually what you were supposed to elaborate on in the first place. You keep throwing those buzz words and at this moment it still means nothing. How many times do I have to ask a quesiton for you to actually answer instead of avoiding it and conveniently just responding to 1/3rd of my posts?

I can do, will post a new one shot video for guardian and will try and have the patience to roam for a bit with the rifle and use stealth once i check with someone i know what gear is needed since i do not enjoy thief that much other than sword pistol or pistol pistol.

Ok, I'm glad you'll do it.It's just that... didn't you write something along the lines that you've played it but it was too easy and boring so you stopped? How could you play it without not only owning the required equipment, but apparently not even knowing what to equip? I'm not sure how is anything you said until this moment supposed to be taken seriously.

[miguelsil.6324]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Yh... you still didn't touch on how those builds are "more rewarding", which was actually what you were supposed to elaborate on in the first place. You keep throwing those buzz words and at this moment it still means nothing. How many times do I have to ask a quesiton for you to actually answer instead of avoiding it and conveniently just responding to 1/3rd of my posts?

Those builds are more rewarding because they allow a player to have little skill and pull of more kills or successfully run away if something goes wrong, save the teleports and stealth to run away and if feeling confident return to finish the job.

I hope I answered your question now, wether or not you agree well may depend on the player and how focused he is and paying atention. A reaper necro cannot disengage once in because they are too comited nor can a guardian unless it has a target to try and teleport away.

[Aeolus.3615]

The problem is how game is keyboard spam with power rep builds or aoe stack, rather than understand what’s onscreen like gw1 was....