Build Templates might be some form of Pay to Win

[God.2708]

@Swagger.1459 said:This thread is fake news and op doesn't understand what p2w actually means.

Everyone gets gear and build templates, and players can get more for $0 by exchanging gold to get gems if they choose.

Everyone also got all those stat boosters before as well. But you'd be a fool to say that it wasn't a form of P2W that raised the barrier of entry for new players.

[Swagger.1459]

@God.2708 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:This thread is fake news and op doesn't understand what p2w actually means.

Everyone gets gear and build templates, and players can get more for $0 by exchanging gold to get gems if they choose.

Everyone also got all those stat boosters before as well. But you'd be a fool to say that it wasn't a form of P2W that raised the barrier of entry for new players.

Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

[Jski.6180]

It may not be a full on p2w but its for sure like using a macro being able to do something much faster then you should be able to. You could always switch gear and skills out of combat in wvw but it took time if your able to switch any time your out of combat with 1 button your in effect using a bot.

Its a "fun" thing to have but some classes will get more out of it then others and it will mess up balancing in wvw even more so then it is now.

[God.2708]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:This thread is fake news and op doesn't understand what p2w actually means.

Everyone gets gear and build templates, and players can get more for $0 by exchanging gold to get gems if they choose.

Everyone also got all those stat boosters before as well. But you'd be a fool to say that it wasn't a form of P2W that raised the barrier of entry for new players.

Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

Players can spend real money to achieve something at a faster rate than non-paying peers that is measurably useful and garners them an advantage. The entire gems -> gold is effectively pay to win only mostly neutered by the fact GW2 doesn't have a gear treadmill. There's nothing fake news about this. Whether it actively devalues the competitive spirit of WvW might be a point for discussion, as the options given for free are enough for 95% of cases. But whether it is pay to win really isn't unless you are utilizing some extreme form of the definition.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual situation (i.e. roaming and not zerging) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you realistically needed more that 2-3 builds options.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

[Faaris.8013]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@"Swagger.1459" said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

That would be two builds, for zerg buffing and renegade, though which are available for free. Everything that you described can easily be handled using what was provided for free.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

If there were a competitive advantage, would people not have already found it using ARCDPS?

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

Exactly how many ways would a zerg split up though in which players would need more than two build slots. We can state there is this hypothetical situation but how realistic is it truly?

In cases where a zerg does split up into meta teams, how much would time to swap gear really matter? Builds themselves can quickly be changed without relying on existing account templates or character Loadouts.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

Depends on the situation and need. A hypothetical isn’t applicable if it’s unlikely to realistically occur.

If someone were so inclined to, they could create a scenario where buying bag slots would be P2W.

[God.2708]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

If there were a competitive advantage, would people not have already found it using ARCDPS?

ARCdps was limited in WvW in that you could not utilize it whilst in enemy zones, and it was actively delayed rather than instantaneous in order to replicate clicking, at ANETs request. Ironically I'd be willing to bet it was requested that way in order to prevent players from having a competitive advantage.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@God.2708 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

If there were a competitive advantage, would people not have already found it using ARCDPS?

ARCdps was limited in WvW in that you could not utilize it whilst in enemy zones, and it was actively delayed rather than instantaneous in order to replicate clicking, at ANETs request. Ironically I'd be willing to bet it was requested that way in order to prevent players from having a competitive advantage.

Perhaps but does a competitive advantage realistically exist between those who purchased additional slots vs those with the base slots?

[God.2708]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@God.2708 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

If there were a competitive advantage, would people not have already found it using ARCDPS?

ARCdps was limited in WvW in that you could not utilize it whilst in enemy zones, and it was actively delayed rather than instantaneous in order to replicate clicking, at ANETs request. Ironically I'd be willing to bet it was requested that way in order to prevent players from having a competitive advantage.

Perhaps but does a competitive advantage realistically exist between those who purchased additional slots vs those with the base slots?

That's a much tougher question, and I imagine what this topic is open to ask about. I can think of several slightly niche but realistic scenarios where having more than 2 equipment slots or 3 build slots will be of use.

IE. Guardian sits in full condi gear to burnguard siege off a wall. Hears enemy is approaching disengages and swaps into full harriers 100% boon duration for first SYG/empower and then swaps into ministrels before combat actually starts for typical healbrand support play.

Is the difference ginormous? No, it likely won't make that much of a difference. But conversely would you consider a speed clear world record of a PvE legitimate if they had the ability to precast and their competition did not?

[LetoII.3782]

I'd laugh at them for doing pve speed clears in gw2.Which is the point here of the counterargument. The game is designed to limit elite success and encourage casual participation. There may be a few worriedly switching armor around, but adding 20% to a 6 second syg buff isn't a big deal.

[Dinas Dragonbane.2978]

This is absurd, if people are so worried about pay to win why don't they recommend making everybody a warrior with mace, healing signet and rampage...nothing else. Total balance, right?

[Swagger.1459]

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@"Swagger.1459" said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build as they are randomly running up to you... And that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@Swagger.1459 said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build, and that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and and you we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

Knowing what a given person is playing is not magic, it's simple knowledge of the game and classes. Most information you need is class/elite, weapon set and what is on their buff bar, this is basic PvP stuff here. The intel that can be gathered just by clicking on them is quite a lot.

Also, arcdps would not swap build templates in enemy territory and had a loading time so builds could not be instantly swapped. As such, swapping builds quickly has always been an issue that even the 3rd party arcdps maker understood.

[Swagger.1459]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@Swagger.1459 said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build, and that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and and you we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

Knowing what a given person is playing is not magic, it's simple knowledge of the game and classes. Most information you need is class/elite, weapon set and what is on their buff bar, this is basic PvP stuff here. The intel that can be gathered just by clicking on them is quiet a lot.

Also, arcdps would not swap build templates in enemy territory and had a loading time so builds could not be instantly swapped. As such, swapping builds quickly has always been an issue that even the 3rd party arcdps maker understood.

So you’re a savant and know exactly what some random player, on 1 of 9 professions, is using for their build, at that exact moment, while they are riding in on their mount, and you will have premade builds in place to counter every profession and every profession build possible against said profession?

Sorry, but players can only make an educated guess for premade builds, and there are zero guarantees. And if we can get more build slots for free, then why the qq of “p2w”?

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@Swagger.1459 said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build, and that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and and you we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

Knowing what a given person is playing is not magic, it's simple knowledge of the game and classes. Most information you need is class/elite, weapon set and what is on their buff bar, this is basic PvP stuff here. The intel that can be gathered just by clicking on them is quiet a lot.

Also, arcdps would not swap build templates in enemy territory and had a loading time so builds could not be instantly swapped. As such, swapping builds quickly has always been an issue that even the 3rd party arcdps maker understood.

So you’re a savant and know exactly what some random player, on 1 of 9 professions, is using for their build, at that exact moment, while they are riding in on their mount, and you will have premade builds in place to counter every profession and every profession build possible against said profession?

Sorry, but players can only make an educated guess for premade builds, and there are zero guarantees. And if we can get more build slots for free, then why the qq of “p2w”?

Savant?

You act like this is some magical or difficult thing to do. Maybe if you never take the time to learn classes and builds, given class/elite only have so many piratical builds, after that power/condi builds will often use different specific weapon sets (some you can guess the whole build just from weapon set), and then buff bar will tell you many other things that person might be running or doing, including things like food as some builds are actually dependent on some food types to work, all of this tells me what sort of build they are running and a high probability of what sort of dmg and utilities to expect to counter.

But I guess this is why so many people complain about classes or builds, because they just simply have no idea what they are fighting.

I also said nothing about pay to win, and as someone who buys gems often, would only benefit me. The problem is that the current implementation they have is ripe for abuse and that doesn't change even if they made tabs unlimited and free.

[Swagger.1459]

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@Swagger.1459 said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build, and that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and and you we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

Knowing what a given person is playing is not magic, it's simple knowledge of the game and classes. Most information you need is class/elite, weapon set and what is on their buff bar, this is basic PvP stuff here. The intel that can be gathered just by clicking on them is quiet a lot.

Also, arcdps would not swap build templates in enemy territory and had a loading time so builds could not be instantly swapped. As such, swapping builds quickly has always been an issue that even the 3rd party arcdps maker understood.

So you’re a savant and know exactly what some random player, on 1 of 9 professions, is using for their build, at that exact moment, while they are riding in on their mount, and you will have premade builds in place to counter every profession and every profession build possible against said profession?

Sorry, but players can only make an educated guess for premade builds, and there are zero guarantees. And if we can get more build slots for free, then why the qq of “p2w”?

Savant?

You act like this is some magical or difficult thing to do. Maybe if you never take the time to learn classes and builds, given class/elite only have so many piratical builds, after that power/condi builds will often use different specific weapon sets (some you can guess the whole build just from weapon set), and then buff bar will tell you many other things that person might be running or doing, including things like food as some builds are actually dependent on some food types to work, all of this tells me what sort of build they are running and a high probability of what sort of dmg and utilities to expect to counter.

But I guess this is why so many people complain about classes or builds, because they just simply have no idea what they are fighting.

I also said nothing about pay to win, and as someone who buys gems often, would only benefit me. The problem is that the current implementation they have is ripe for abuse and that doesn't change even if they made tabs unlimited and free.

Im glad you will know everyone’s exact builds at all times, and will now be able to swap your build to counter the 100 other builds being used. Careful, though, your character might get beat up too since those other players will swap their builds to counter your builds. You may want to get as many builds as you can to make sure you can beat everyone’s build.

This thread is about builds and “pay to win”.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Faaris.8013 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The only scenario I could potentially see them being P2W would be in situations in WvW where the build you play on an individual encounter (not really zerg fights) would impact the outcome of a fight. This would only apply if you need more that 2-3 builds.

This does not apply to PvE nor sPvP.

Well, we've seen examples here of using different builds to prebuff before zerg fights. And I'm pretty sure the serious guilds will soon figure out the new meta that includes more than one build in the setup. It sure makes for more diverse and interesting game play. It will become important if your Revenant in the team can quickly switch from Herald to Alacrity Renegade or not. And it will make your zerg better than the enemy zerg if they don't follow that meta. There will be rotations on the known websites for zerg builds that include proper build/gear switching.

There will soon be no doubt about the competitive advantage of using several template slots, I'm not worried about it being a secret. That's fine actually.

The issue here is only that additional slots cost money. The zerg with more slots = possibilities to quickly switch around to create meta teams has a competitive advantage.

There are only 2 base, free equipment slots. That's not enough to stay competitive with someone who has 6.

@Swagger.1459 said:Loosely throwing around the words "pay to win" isn't really helping any arguments. This thread is fake news to fit some " I want to bash anet again" narrative.

You are barking at the wrong tree, I almost never post here or elsewhere, pro or contra Anet. I found this important enough to log in and make my thoughts public, and invite to a discussion. It is indeed possible that I'm wrong, hense the title.

From what I read here so far, I'm more and more convinced that these templates have been implemented without WvW in mind.

Did you log in before complaining that arcdps was unfair? I’m pretty sure you didn’t, but now swapping builds quickly is problematic to you?

Everybody gets some free, and if they want more they can get them for $0 by exchanging gold to gems. And having 1000 build and gear templates doesn’t make you more powerful than someone who has 2. You’re also assuming in your example that 1 player somehow magically knows exactly what build to run as a counter against another player’s build, and that’s just not true given the fact there are a number of different builds each profession can use.

You don’t know what p2w is, especially in a scenario where every gets them, and and you we can get more for FREE. And since when was a FREE option “paying” to win anything?

Knowing what a given person is playing is not magic, it's simple knowledge of the game and classes. Most information you need is class/elite, weapon set and what is on their buff bar, this is basic PvP stuff here. The intel that can be gathered just by clicking on them is quiet a lot.

Also, arcdps would not swap build templates in enemy territory and had a loading time so builds could not be instantly swapped. As such, swapping builds quickly has always been an issue that even the 3rd party arcdps maker understood.

So you’re a savant and know exactly what some random player, on 1 of 9 professions, is using for their build, at that exact moment, while they are riding in on their mount, and you will have premade builds in place to counter every profession and every profession build possible against said profession?

Sorry, but players can only make an educated guess for premade builds, and there are zero guarantees. And if we can get more build slots for free, then why the qq of “p2w”?

Savant?

You act like this is some magical or difficult thing to do. Maybe if you never take the time to learn classes and builds, given class/elite only have so many piratical builds, after that power/condi builds will often use different specific weapon sets (some you can guess the whole build just from weapon set), and then buff bar will tell you many other things that person might be running or doing, including things like food as some builds are actually dependent on some food types to work, all of this tells me what sort of build they are running and a high probability of what sort of dmg and utilities to expect to counter.

But I guess this is why so many people complain about classes or builds, because they just simply have no idea what they are fighting.

I also said nothing about pay to win, and as someone who buys gems often, would only benefit me. The problem is that the current implementation they have is ripe for abuse and that doesn't change even if they made tabs unlimited and free.

Im glad you will know everyone’s exact builds at all times, and will now be able to swap your build to counter the 100 other builds being used. Careful, though, your character might get beat up too since those other players will swap their builds to counter your builds. You may want to get as many builds as you can to make sure you can beat everyone’s build.

This thread is about builds and “pay to win”.

Yes, it is about builds, and that is all I mentioned. However I don't get the feeling you actually care to have a meaningful discussion on the topic and only want to make sarcastic remarks about me.