Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Potential Future Balance Changes - WvW


Cal Cohen.2358

Recommended Posts

Good to see the appropriate key changes being made, in my opinion these changes bring scourge back into line with other dps classes, leaving it still very powerful, and certainly a META class (where it should be in WvW), but no so powerful that other DPS options like rev, ele, etc are worthless as they currently are in comparison.

Also leaves much of their support aspect un-nerfed which is nice.

May want to consider slightly reducing the cooldown on sand-savant shades to compensate, since now the trait basically just doubles cooldown and axes multi shades for the larger AOE size.

On the other hand, I do think you may finally see a shift away from 100% of scourges in wvw using sand-savant if you do the changes like this... maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:

  • Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
  • Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team

  • Sand Savant: Besides a radius increase there is no reason to run this trait anymore and is now useless. Maybe for at least a compensation remove the shade recast increase?

  • Devouring Darkness: Might as well use Axe as that has 2 corrupts and is AoE (while the range is shorter, it's still better than this).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

K I've got an idea now;

  • Shades cannot corrupt boons, period. Traits that corrupt boons do not effect Shades, they instead grant Barrier to self and allies.
  • Revert changes so that Shroud skills again effect the Necromancer even when a Shade(s) is active.
  • Remove corrupts from all Punishment skills and replace them with other effects like Barrier, or stronger Barriers.
  • Increase the potency of Barrier that Scourge can apply to itself, but not to allies.
  • Revert Devouring Darkness to it's previous state of corrupting 3 boons.

This way Scourge can no longer mass corrupt but instead fulfills it's role as a support as it was intended to. It can still apply damage via Wells and weapon skills or by using a power build, and also gains the potential to be an extremely strong Barrier applicator as well as being less dependent on support when solo.

Then you ( ANet, the developers ) can focus on adjusting other support roles, like Firebrand, by reducing the potency of their healing and boon application.

Necromancer will still be able to corrupt boons through various sources such as Wells, weapon and trait skills, but it's effects will be felt on much fewer players at a time forcing greater co-ordination and skill interaction.

EDIT:

  • Shroud skill #1 applies Barrier in an area when summoned. All traits that effect this skill remain unchanged.
  • Path Of Corruption applies Barrier if a condition is cleansed with Shroud skill #2 ( only applies when using Scourge )
  • Shroud skill #3 self applies Barrier and applies Barrier in an area when it expires on the Necromancer.
  • Shroud skill #4 unchanged.
  • Shroud skill #5 no longer "pulses" around the Necromancer. Instead it applies Torment when the Necromancer is hit while Shroud skill #5 is active.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cal,

the corrupt potential of the scourge isn't the problem, boon application far outweighs the corrupts. Jump in any group and switch off the grid view and watch your party in the middle of battle. All you see is an influx of boons being applied with very little conditions or conditions appearing and then vanishing. If corrupts were a problem, we'd see the opposite; we'd see less boons and boons vanishing and tons of conditions ticking. We don't see that, leave the corrupts alone.

Shades also aren't the problem, the only real class they bother is the guardian, and to a lesser extent the warrior. Thieves, Rangers, Mesmers, Revs, and Engineers have little to no issue with shades. The shade complaints are coming from those 2 classes which is ironic because it's the Guardian class itself that does too much. What you need to do is revert all the changes on all the classes back to the start of PoF and take the heavy nerf bat to the Guardian and Guardian alone.

Case and point, One of the skills the Firebrand has converts 5 conditions to 5 boons on 5 targets (basically functions like an elite skill), on a relatively short cool down. The counter skill to this would have been devouring darkness, which in it's original state converting 3 boons to 3 conditions on 5 targets was never on par to even begin with; it needed to be increased to 5 boons to 5 conditions on 5 targets to match it. Then it got reduced to 2 conditions, now will be reduced down to 1, and the Firebrand skill remains untouched????? Do you see the problem here?

Changing Scourge isn't going to change the meta, the sole problem with the meta is the Guardian class. Making those changes will likely reduce Scourges in WvW yes, but it will also likely reduce amount of players playing as well (and there aren't many left as is). What will the scourge be replaced with? Ele's? Nope, die to retaliation and their healing is sub par compared to Firebrand. Revs? Good possibility but does WvW need more Revs, many players will say no? More Rangers and thieves? Nope, too much reflect because of Guardian. More scrappers? Again, highly unlikely, they don't serve a large enough function to warrant many of them. Mesmers? How many chrono tanks are needed in groups?

Then that lastly brings us to warriors, who better to fill the boon stripping gap then warriors? With little fear of boon corruption now, warriors can run amok much easier. Then the original problem has been created that plagued WvW prior to HoT's release, that awful melee meta, the one that started making players quite the game in masses, due to the lack of class diversity and alienation of other classes. Reducing boon corrupts is about the poorest move you can make Cal.

That isn't the only problem the guardian class poses; they dish out too much retaliation, too many reflects, too much resistance, too much stability, and too much healing. Then also aside from too much condi conversion in their wheelhouse, they pack too much overall condition cleanse as well. Your nerf bat should be squarely focused on them and reducing them down to the level of other classes. They should only be able to do one of those things well on that list (like party stab), and one other thing marginally well (like healing). Everything else needs to be completely removed from their skill list. That is what will change the meta and bring more diversity into the game mode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vegeta.2563 said:

  • Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
  • Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team
  • Sand Savant: Besides a radius increase there is no reason to run this trait anymore and is now useless. Maybe for at least a compensation remove the shade recast increase?
  • Devouring Darkness: Might as well use Axe as that has 2 corrupts and is AoE (while the range is shorter, it's still better than this).

Pros and Cons, more range, less boons. Less range, more boons. This is good balancing, stop raging about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Grimjack.8130 said:

  • Sand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only
  • Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate. We look forward to your thoughts and feedback.

-The Systems Team
  • Sand Savant: Besides a radius increase there is no reason to run this trait anymore and is now useless. Maybe for at least a compensation remove the shade recast increase?
  • Devouring Darkness: Might as well use Axe as that has 2 corrupts and is AoE (while the range is shorter, it's still better than this).

Pros and Cons, more range, less boons. Less range, more boons. This is good balancing, stop raging about it.

Still can't argue that sand savant is going to be pointless to run if these changes go live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Cal,

the corrupt potential of the scourge isn't the problem, boon application far outweighs the corrupts. Jump in any group and switch off the grid view and watch your party in the middle of battle. All you see is an influx of boons being applied with very little conditions or conditions appearing and then vanishing. If corrupts were a problem, we'd see the opposite; we'd see less boons and boons vanishing and tons of conditions ticking. We don't see that, leave the corrupts alone.

Shades also aren't the problem, the only real class they bother is the guardian, and to a lesser extent the warrior. Thieves, Rangers, Mesmers, Revs, and Engineers have little to no issue with shades. The shade complaints are coming from those 2 classes which is ironic because it's the Guardian class itself that does too much. What you need to do is revert all the changes on all the classes back to the start of PoF and take the heavy nerf bat to the Guardian and Guardian alone.

Case and point, One of the skills the Firebrand has converts 5 conditions to 5 boons on 5 targets (basically functions like an elite skill), on a relatively short cool down. The counter skill to this would have been devouring darkness, which in it's original state converting 3 boons to 3 conditions on 5 targets was never on par to even begin with; it needed to be increased to 5 boons to 5 conditions on 5 targets to match it. Then it got reduced to 2 conditions, now will be reduced down to 1, and the Firebrand skill remains untouched????? Do you see the problem here?

Changing Scourge isn't going to change the meta, the sole problem with the meta is the Guardian class. Making those changes will likely reduce Scourges in WvW yes, but it will also likely reduce amount of players playing as well (and there aren't many left as is). What will the scourge be replaced with? Ele's? Nope, die to retaliation and their healing is sub par compared to Firebrand. Revs? Good possibility but does WvW need more Revs, many players will say no? More Rangers and thieves? Nope, too much reflect because of Guardian. More scrappers? Again, highly unlikely, they don't serve a large enough function to warrant many of them. Mesmers? How many chrono tanks are needed in groups?

Then that lastly brings us to warriors, who better to fill the boon stripping gap then warriors? With little fear of boon corruption now, warriors can run amok much easier. Then the original problem has been created that plagued WvW prior to HoT's release, that awful melee meta, the one that started making players quite the game in masses, due to the lack of class diversity and alienation of other classes. Reducing boon corrupts is about the poorest move you can make Cal.

That isn't the only problem the guardian class poses; they dish out too much retaliation, too many reflects, too much resistance, too much stability, and too much healing. Then also aside from too much condi conversion in their wheelhouse, they pack too much overall condition cleanse as well. Your nerf bat should be squarely focused on them and reducing them down to the level of other classes. They should only be able to do one of those things well on that list (like party stab), and one other thing marginally well (like healing). Everything else needs to be completely removed from their skill list. That is what will change the meta and bring more diversity into the game mode.

I agree 100%. Corrupts have never been an issue. Going from 3 corrupts to 2 hurt a bit, now going from 2 to 1 is even worse. I have a hard time even keeping up with corrupts, while boons are applied almost twice as often from guardian and scrapper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

Cool quote, but "fast-paced combat" isn't equivalent to suddenly giving everything a bunch of tps.

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

Again, nothing here claims you'll be jumping around. Also versatility doesn't mean same playstyles. for every class. Not sure what's your point with these quotes.

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Nah, I disagree. If you want to be a mesmer or thief, then play mesmer or thief instead of trying to force every skill into one profession. You'd be better off telling me why you don't want to just play those classes instead of deflecting with "other mmorpgs" and irrelevant quotes.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a really good step forward with the meta and I appreciate the changes. However my main concern with reducing the amount of boon rip in the game is going to make killing zergs quite a challenge which was one of the main issues with HoT and the perma boon share unkillable pirate shipping. If you could, please consider giving boon rip to something like Ele on the lightning trait line. Currently ele, atleast for zergs, is a meteor shower bot and not much else. Giving boon rip somewhere in the kit would greatly change the play style. Similar to how how necro gets the change to scepter 3 through traits would be beneficial to ele. Having traits change something like lightning staff 3 to an aoe with boon rip would be nice. This is just a suggestion, one that probably isnt perfect, but something to consider none the less

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sand Shroud and Shades do too many things at the same time.

They should have had traits making them choose the focus of the Shades, keeping each line of traits focused in one aspect of the Scourge kit.

For example, something on the lines of this:

  • First, cut the damage and barrier from desert shroud by a lot. Only one of the amounts cut will return individually depending on traits selected:
  • Upper line: Support and Barrier
    • Remove conditions and give boons to allies. Gain life force when removing conditions.
    • Give Barriers when placing Shades. Sand Cascade becomes a skill that pulses barrier over 5s instead a one time pulse.
    • Barrier applied by you lasts longer. Desert Shroud gives more Barrier.
  • Mid line: Condition and Scourge kit:
    • Empowering torch and gain life force from burning.
    • Empowering punishments. Desert shroud becomes Harbinger of Sorrow.
    • Burning deals more damage and causes torment. Desert shroud deals more damage, gives more torment and adds crippled.
  • Lower Line: Enemy Debuff and pressure
    • Cause weakness when you cause crippled. Gain life force when removing boons.
    • New trait - Envenom Enchantments: Removing a boon from a foe causes them to be poisoned. (1 stack, 3s, 10s cooldown). Nefarious Favor becomes a skill that also cuts by 2s the duration of some boons on enemies hit, down to a minimum of 2s.
    • Gain boons when removing them. Desert Shroud removes 1 boon from enemies, and marks the affected enemies with an effect that makes them immune to the boon removed for 2s, preventing reapplication of that boon.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

Cool quote, but "fast-paced combat" isn't equivalent to suddenly giving everything a bunch of tps.

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

Again, nothing here claims you'll be jumping around. Also versatility doesn't mean same playstyles. for every class. Not sure what's your point with these quotes.

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Nah, I disagree. If you want to be a mesmer or thief, then play mesmer or thief instead of trying to force every skill into one profession. You'd be better off telling me why you don't want to just play those classes instead of deflecting with "other mmorpgs" and irrelevant quotes.

There are more than just Thief and Mesmer who perform fast paced attacks and have mobility and positioning skills. Get it now? Or do you think Thief and Mesmer are the only professions who can quickly attack and move around the battlefield?

If you think slow skills and the lowest mobility are the defining identity of Necro, and improving those areas for combat that exist on other professions means “homogenize”, then you have a lot to learn about this game and balance.

But don’t blame me for asking when we have the devs own words to rely on...

“Joy of Movement

You’ve probably heard this term before when we’ve mentioned other features or mechanics in Guild Wars 2.”

“The more fun, interesting movement we have in the game, the more fun and interesting it is."

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 that sounds really good! But I don't think that the scope of the next balance patch involves such mechanical changes, I remember that the devs posted the parameters that they're working with (such mechanical changes are beyond them).

@"Cal Cohen.3527" Hey!Good to see that you are looking at this issue.
I'd say that reducing the target cap back to 5 will affect compositions on wvw, but I don't know if it will ultimately work as a band aid before the big shake up. Reducing the cap is important, but I'm inclined to think that the treatment to such high AoE fighting styles should be similar to what you have done with spellbreaker. If the shade skills "debuff" enemies in such a way that they cannot be affected twice (or thrice) by shades, as in, once you hit them, they get the debuff and if another scourge plants a shade on top of yours, their skills will target the same enemy, but won't affect it, that would greatly reduce the impact of having 10 shades on top of a group, in the same way that stacking Wind of Disenchantment is of no use, spreading out shades offers better counterplay, and promotes diversity within squads. I've no idea if adding or removing "debuffs" from skills is within the scope of what you're working with though, if not, I hope that you can both get the skill to a manageable level before the big shakeup, without alienating necromancer players too much, we need every player that we can get on WvW right now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

Cool quote, but "fast-paced combat" isn't equivalent to suddenly giving everything a bunch of tps.

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

Again, nothing here claims you'll be jumping around. Also versatility doesn't mean same playstyles. for every class. Not sure what's your point with these quotes.

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Nah, I disagree. If you want to be a mesmer or thief, then play mesmer or thief instead of trying to force every skill into one profession. You'd be better off telling me why you don't want to just play those classes instead of deflecting with "other mmorpgs" and irrelevant quotes.

There are more than just Thief and Mesmer who perform fast paced attacks and have mobility and positioning skills. Get it now? Or do you think Thief and Mesmer are the only professions who can quickly attack and move around the battlefield?

That's fine, then play those classes, I don't see how that changes the main point of what I wrote.

If you think slow skills and the lowest mobility are the defining identity of Necro, and improving those areas for combat that exist on other professions means “homogenize”, then you have a lot to learn about this game and balance.

Slow skills? And I'm still not sure why you think every class should do everything. Something doesn't need to be a "defining identity" of the class to still be a part of it.Do I really have "a lot to learn about this game and balance"? You're the one that wants a teleport spamming necros -you sure must be concerned with the balance part of this game, oof.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah, i´m quite thinking the same way most of the others do. the necro-corrupts are not the problem. remember: a corrupt can only apply conditions, if boons had already been applied before at the target. the reason why this boon conversion is so strong, is the massive amount of boons that already get applied. even with the current state after the latest balance patch, i can corrupt down many enemy boons, while not noticing much difference in the buff-bar of my target (in fact, you cannot even consider yourself how many boons you already stripped without using arcdps). this means: the boon corrupts are neither too strong nor too weak, the boon application from other classes are the problem you need to find a way to handle.

just as DeadlySynz already stated, changing the scourge values over and over again will not impact the game in the intended way. You need to get away from the way of thinking at every class for itself. every aspect of each class (especially guards vs necros) affects another, or, multiple others. Nerfing boon-corrupts will automatically buff boon applications, buffing corrupts will automatically nerf boon applications. Buffing boon removal/boon conversion will always nerf boon application and so on. Every so far suggested change in terms of necro/guard/engi has been extremely one-sided; some of them just negated each other, some of them extremely buffed one and extremely nerfed the corresponding counterpart.Thinking this way, maybe it is not the time for nerfing one thing after another, again, and again, and again until everything in the game is on the same level again (well, it will be the same level of uselessness then) but time to BUFF other counterparts that can compensate this disbalance. And this is not directly targeted at the so called "boons vs corrupts-problem", but at every specialization available in the game. The reason why specific classes (especially guard and necro) are chosen over others in a zergfight is not directly because they are too strong, but they are the most (and sometimes only) viable choice.So, give every (with "every" i mean EVERY single one, not some, every!) class, respective specialization, a specific role to fill in, and (as the name "specialization" already states) make it strong in this role. ONLY in this role.

moving away from the original topic i would highly recommend to think about the following point as well

you want to target specific problems with the next patch(es), so why don´t you adress the one class, that is totally messed up at the moment (or should i say, MESMERed up?..... sry, bad pun). ==> Mesmerin Zergfights, except from setting a veil and gravity well, the mesmer/Chronomancer has absolutely no purpose anymore.The chronomancer had a very well functioning role in the zerg, before it got nerfed into damnation patch by patch.--> boonshare has been made impossible since "rework" of "Signet of inspiration" (bring back the old one that actually applies boons)--> shatterskills are nearly impossible to use in large scaled fights (illusions are instantly cleaved down before you can even think of shattering them for a continuum-split, so it often happens that you want to cast a double-gravity-well, but mid-cast, where you want to use CS, your illus die and the right moment for GW is gone)the problem is: you will always need at least 1-2 mesmers because of their unique ways of utility (especially veil and portal, but also the gravity-well and focus-pulls, which neither can get replaced by other zerg-classes)--> the specialization-specific Utility-skills (wells) are too stationary for zergfights because of their high cooldown compared to other aoe-skills and the fact, that their strongest part happens with their last tick (which will often just hit nothing because the area of the fight already moved away by then). the gravity-well is the only useful well, because every pulse of it has impact on the fightYes, the mesmer could maybe played on dps, but it´s just not worth because revenants, elementalists and necros are doing this 10 times better, independent if you play chrono or mirage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

In particular we’re looking at:
  • Scourge

Typical. And typical responses from the typical people. Yea, Scourges are incredible in a zerg. Roaming, not so much. Scourges will not one-shot someone like a SoulBeast or a DeadEye. Scourges have NO defense and are generally running glass. But by all means, nerf us more and give us no retaliation or blocks. Hey, for funsies, why not make the one pathetic port we have take 10 seconds to cast - that'll teach us.

Does Anet even play the class?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes... please only do tweaks from now on instead of reinventing the wheel every year. good stuff man keep it up.

oh yeah devouring darkness is fine I think. honestly some other classes could use some boon removal. and reliable stab. it would be a great thing for the meta if monopolies weren't a thing. imagine 2 or even 3 players able to provide a little bit of a few things that all add up to a whole, instead of one class doing 100% of one thing etc. meta staling is bad in this game. really bad. make people excited to play their class again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Decrease the cap hit to 3 (allowing for 6 targets via necro + shades) and turn one of the f-skills into an ability that teleports the Scourge one-way from their current location to the their shade with a neat animation that grants evasion uptime, (flavor it a moving through the "sand pits" the necro created). That'll cut back on their damage whilst giving them a defensively-minded option to help improve personal survivability. People can bitch about the offensive potential of scourges in large scale all they want, they're still basically the only profession in the game without a decent "ohfuc--" button if they get caught even remotely close to the enemy train.

Also, I'm all for cutting back or removing the boon corruption, but Scrappers will need to be looked at if we go this route. Unless the end goal is to go back to the boon-ball HoT meta.

~ Kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

Cool quote, but "fast-paced combat" isn't equivalent to suddenly giving everything a bunch of tps.

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

Again, nothing here claims you'll be jumping around. Also versatility doesn't mean same playstyles. for every class. Not sure what's your point with these quotes.

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Nah, I disagree. If you want to be a mesmer or thief, then play mesmer or thief instead of trying to force every skill into one profession. You'd be better off telling me why you don't want to just play those classes instead of deflecting with "other mmorpgs" and irrelevant quotes.

There are more than just Thief and Mesmer who perform fast paced attacks and have mobility and positioning skills. Get it now? Or do you think Thief and Mesmer are the only professions who can quickly attack and move around the battlefield?

That's fine, then play those classes, I don't see how that changes the main point of what I wrote.

If you think slow skills and the lowest mobility are the defining identity of Necro, and improving those areas for combat that exist on other professions means “homogenize”, then you have a lot to learn about this game and balance.

Slow skills? And I'm still not sure why you think every class should do everything. Something doesn't need to be a "defining identity" of the class to still be a part of it.Do I really have "a lot to learn about this game and balance"? You're the one that wants a teleport spamming necros -you sure must be concerned with the balance part of this game, oof.

I know it’s hard to imagine some balance and improvement changes when you’ve been stuck on 7 years of the same designs. And if your “status quo” mentality on professions was correct, then esports wouldn’t have died, and we wouldn’t have the devs telling us big changes are coming to professions in wvw and spvp now 7 years later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@misterman.1530 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

In particular we’re looking at:
  • Scourge

Typical. And typical responses from the typical people. Yea, Scourges are incredible in a zerg. Roaming, not so much. Scourges will not one-shot someone like a SoulBeast or a DeadEye. Scourges have NO defense and are generally running glass. But by all means, nerf us more and give us no retaliation or blocks. Hey, for funsies, why not make the one pathetic port we have take 10 seconds to cast - that'll teach us.

Does Anet even play the class?

"Scourges are incredible in a zerg" and that's what they're targeting, so why are you complaining about roaming here? I don't really get it. Or are you another one of those people that think the single class they're playing should be strong at everything they want to do?


@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And this is the type of fast-paced and fun Necromancer we deserve for GW2... Not the very slow one we have...

From what I saw in the initial fights of this vid (because I'm not sure there's a point for me to watch it all, as I didn't bother with bdo and might not have enough of an insight into the gameplay), it seems you're looking for mesmer/thief playstyle. If that's the case, just play the classes with playstyle you desire instead of trying to homogenize playstyle of different classes.

Because speeding up skills on Necro, and giving them some mobility, would make them exactly like every other profession in GW2... Or maybe GW2 was billed as...

“Experience high-impact, fast-paced combat”

Cool quote, but "fast-paced combat" isn't equivalent to suddenly giving everything a bunch of tps.

“Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast paced, and dynamic. Every profession is versatile, with an arsenal of skills and powers at their command.”

Again, nothing here claims you'll be jumping around. Also versatility doesn't mean same playstyles. for every class. Not sure what's your point with these quotes.

And sorry, no, I’ll have to counter what you think “homogenize” is.... I played an mmo where each class had similar core design mechanics, and all builds could potentially fly, teleport, super leap, run at high speed and go invisible... yet had vastly more unique builds and role diversity than GW2.

Nah, I disagree. If you want to be a mesmer or thief, then play mesmer or thief instead of trying to force every skill into one profession. You'd be better off telling me why you don't want to just play those classes instead of deflecting with "other mmorpgs" and irrelevant quotes.

There are more than just Thief and Mesmer who perform fast paced attacks and have mobility and positioning skills. Get it now? Or do you think Thief and Mesmer are the only professions who can quickly attack and move around the battlefield?

That's fine, then play those classes, I don't see how that changes the main point of what I wrote.

If you think slow skills and the lowest mobility are the defining identity of Necro, and improving those areas for combat that exist on other professions means “homogenize”, then you have a lot to learn about this game and balance.

Slow skills? And I'm still not sure why you think every class should do everything. Something doesn't need to be a "defining identity" of the class to still be a part of it.Do I really have "a lot to learn about this game and balance"? You're the one that wants a teleport spamming necros -you sure must be concerned with the balance part of this game, oof.

I know it’s hard to imagine some balance and improvement changes when you’ve been stuck on 7 years of the same designs. And if your “status quo” mentality on professions was correct, then esports wouldn’t have died, and we wouldn’t have the devs telling us big changes are coming to professions in wvw and spvp now 7 years later.

Ah, so you'll just keep trying to take some cheap personal jabs at me instead of actually answering to anything that was mentioned. Nearly no game ever suddenly changes their design and set of mechanics after 7 years, so -again- not sure what you're talking about. Also for something to "die", they would first need to be "alive" and, honestly, no offense to anyone but it doesn't feel like gw2 was ever big on being an esport. Finally what I said has nothing to do with "status quo mentality", it's not like I'm potesting balance changes. I'm saying stop trying to make "your class" do everything (homogenizing 9 classes, yup) and actually switch classes accodingly to what you're expecting from them.Your suggestions about combat not being dynamic unless you're able to spam 20 teleports "because other game does that!" is also staight up false. And so is your claim about gw2 being in the same/stagnant state for 7 years.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...