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Vicariuz.1605

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@"Vicariuz.1605" said:https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut this person is spamming everything they have and its nearly 40 seconds of evade

@Highlie.7641 said:Open to attack: 39 seconds to 37 seconds33-3231-29X to 27 (he's looking away)26-2524-2321-1918-1510-96- End

Stellar playerbase, just stellar.

i see 20 seconds where u can 1 hit that thief.

Kek.

It's not reasonable to consider this a fair playstyle because there are small gaps in between the rotation. Even if you were accurately reporting the seconds that thief is open to attack in that rotation, it still would be too much to reasonably expect counterplay. The thief doesnt even begin the rotation until 0:34, so you cant count 0:39 to 0:37 as being open.

Furthermore, when the thief finishes a dodge or evade he is not open for a whole second. I clicked a stopwatch in between a few of these dodges. On average, that thief is vulnerable for about a quarter of a second in between each of those dodges. There were 28 instances where that thief could be hit to be sure, but seeing as how each of the dodges has varying lengths and distances that are not predictable, you have a high chance of failing a CC or burst if you incorrectly guess which kind of evade the thief will use.

0.25s X 28 is 7. There were 7 seconds total in that string where the thief could be struck, for about .25 or 250ms segments each. That is the average human reaction time, and this is a MMO. So you're adding anywhere from 30ms + on top of that for any move you choose to respond to that, and many of them are not instant cast and have their own startup times.

It is not rational to expect to damage that rotation unless you get lucky and guess the next dodge type the thief is going to use and precast a CC. Dont be obtuse. It isn't fair.

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So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the ass to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the kitten to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

Nobody is saying the evades in general are OP.

The evades with the Staff Staff Weapon set, that particular build, -is- OP, though. 40 seconds of evasion in a rotation where point capture is your primary objective isn't right. That's insane.

There are other classes with busted sustain too, those also need to be looked at.

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@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So what were basically saying is the DD or thief in general is designed to be double tapped by almost any skill but given evade frames out the kitten to compensate but the evades are now op and the best thing to do is lower its evades with no compensation. Gee best way for sure if u wanna kill a spec.But peeps are right actively spamming timed evades is braindead compared to passive sustain like more hp or multiple blocks and invulnerability skills that last 3 sec at a time etc. Sure wish thief had more of these skilled defenses

Nobody is saying the evades in general are OP.

The evades with the Staff Staff Weapon set, that particular build,
-is- OP,
though. 40 seconds of evasion in a rotation where point capture is your primary objective isn't right. That's insane.

There are other classes with busted sustain too, those also need to be looked at.

Every single frame during the landing of vault and bound are punishable. A block followed by a cc at end of any of them can be fatal for a DD as instant reflexes icd won't allow it to avoid constant cc evasion and I doubt most thieves or average thieves will stun break fast enough using other mean to avoid it. I have never once fought a staff DD that I couldn't hit, yes I've died to them but the definitely went impossible to hit and for how glassy they are and the dps being thrown out these days they should be very very hard to hit if played well or the spec is garbage. But ur right this is now and if the devs nerf other specs down maybe it was for the best to nerf the staff build. We will see.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Every single frame during the landing of vault and bound are punishable. A block followed by a cc at end of any of them can be fatal for a DD as instant reflexes icd won't allow it to avoid constant cc evasion and I doubt most thieves or average thieves will stun break fast enough using other mean to avoid it. I have never once fought a staff DD that I couldn't hit, yes I've died to them but the definitely went impossible to hit and for how glassy they are and the dps being thrown out these days they should be very very hard to hit if played well or the spec is garbage. But ur right this is now and if the devs nerf other specs down maybe it was for the best to nerf the staff build. We will see.

Agreed. If active defense can be argued to be OP, then passive defense on a class with a more forgiving HP pool or more forgiving mechanics can also be argued to be OP if it promotes the same playstyle. Any rotation that can, to reasonable effect, be done without significant room for the opponent to do anything to offset it should get adjusted, and I am willing to give up staff/staff if that balancing direction is applied across the board.

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@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:It's not reasonable to consider this a fair playstyle because there are small gaps in between the rotation. Even if you were accurately reporting the seconds that thief is open to attack in that rotation, it still would be too much to reasonably expect counterplay. The thief doesnt even begin the rotation until 0:34, so you cant count 0:39 to 0:37 as being open.

Furthermore, when the thief finishes a dodge or evade he is not open for a whole second. I clicked a stopwatch in between a few of these dodges. On average, that thief is vulnerable for about a quarter of a second in between each of those dodges. There were 28 instances where that thief could be hit to be sure, but seeing as how each of the dodges has varying lengths and distances that are not predictable, you have a high chance of failing a CC or burst if you incorrectly guess which kind of evade the thief will use.

0.25s X 28 is 7. There were 7 seconds total in that string where the thief could be struck, for about .25 or 250ms segments each. That is the average human reaction time, and this is a MMO. So you're adding anywhere from 30ms + on top of that for any move you choose to respond to that, and many of them are not instant cast and have their own startup times.

It is not rational to expect to damage that rotation unless you get lucky and guess the next dodge type the thief is going to use and precast a CC. Dont be obtuse. It isn't fair.

is actually requiring 2 overskilled players to kill it.. its over-survival rate match pre-nerf broken scrapper...

the only way to "kill" this kind of thief is when it gets distracted fight 2 players at same time, then the 2nd foe find a oportunity windows to nuke a atack, but is still lucky shot.

the spam of this thiev is start generating matches with 2 of them in one team, leading to typical broken spec situation where a team that stack more of them win, like the era of broken scourge or broken scrapper.

also they evades let them escape from hit combos like necro Axe #2, or Reaper Shroud #4.

if a team gets 2 of them, they just need let 1 "guarding" the home-node, and another on far node. each node can hold 2 foes, so the "unluck" team had a insane hard-time to try maintain the node-caps.

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:Why are people crying?

Some ape thief decided to play staff build after hot fix and got popped by me playing cele bunker scrapper LOL.

He ran sword/dagger and staff. Stop crying. The build is dead, just like people wanted. This community is just full on cringe when it comes to balance.

I hope this is a troll, because sword dagger staff is not the build being discussed in this thread. YIKES. LITERAL CRINGE. It's usually a good idea to read what the thread is about before responding.

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@Highlie.7641 said:Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

Hitting .25s in a game where the only thing faster is instant cast skills, is not "average" gameplay, especially when those .25s can be covered by additional evade frames and you have to guess if it will or not. It's funny to me that I've never EVER heard of the GOD Highlie in any tournaments, any leaderboard, any lan, nothing. Where you been mr GOD of reaction times?

@Highlie.7641 said:Go back to the first comment...

READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

LOL I am the OP and the one who posted the video. The video is a thief just spamming everything using a build that has less survivability than the real deal (smoke screen says hi). In a real match, you aren't spamming everything, that prolongs the on node time of the thief by magnitudes.

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@"Highlie.7641" said:Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

??? let's talk about the fact that you're completely wrong lol... the jumping staff 3 trick removed the punish frames from the evades so the only time you could hit them was the literal pixel they touched the ground which technically could've been covered if they pressed staff 3 + jump against as soon as they landed (or they could just spam the buttons)

If you were hitting these staff thieves consistently on 100-200 ping you're either lying or the thieves you were fighting did NOT know how to play the build properly

An (11k health!) staff thief tanked 4 out of the 5 Team USA members for 20 seconds during the monthly finals and got out alive without an issue then proceeded to win several 1v1s over the course of the match against skilled/experienced duelists.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496848054?t=01h02m11s

This is just a case of players who know what they're talking about trying to get this fixed literally months in advance but Anet didn't listen and look what happened! It got abused and won a monthly AT. ¯\(ツ)

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Unpopular opinion but idc: there NEEDS to be more anet partners on NA that stream the monthly, jebro has very little idea what he is talking about while casting the monthly, a gold 2/3 PoV should not be the primary depiction of the monthly AT with some of the most skilled players in the game. Not specifically because or for that, it would be great visibility for the game for additional streams with additional PoVs on monthly tournaments.

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@Highlie.7641 said:

@Highlie.7641 said:Hitting these windows is Average gameplay. The problem is people are so used to being carried by bad design, the basics are looked at like an impossible feat. Which they ain't at all.I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem hitting between there evades unless I screwed up. course i'm not foolish enough to try and hit "There next evade" when u can easily just wait and hit the tail end of there ongoing evade" but i guess that's much to complicated. instead let's talk about reaction time....

Hitting .25s in a game where the only thing faster is instant cast skills, is not "average" gameplay, especially when those .25s can be covered by additional evade frames and you have to guess if it will or not. It's funny to me that I've never EVER heard of the GOD Highlie in any tournaments, any leaderboard, any lan, nothing. Where you been mr GOD of reaction times?

@Highlie.7641 said:Go back to the first comment...

READ, now u understand where talking about the video that was posted, as the numbers clearly show....

LOL I am the OP and the one who posted the video. The video is a thief just spamming everything using a build that has less survivability than the real deal (smoke screen says hi). In a real match, you aren't spamming everything, that prolongs the on node time of the thief by magnitudes.

...And he's not doing what all video? jump 3 cancel. which is what the original comment is about. Don't get salty because your so used to being carried you believe your a "God", I've never claimed to be good, but if your really intrested and lucky you can find out if Anya records, get him to waste his time looking through recordings. and eventally u will see him fight be the last time i played.

lmfao, I'm the one who posted vods of anya in the first thread I made about staff staff thief BACK IN JULY, I regularly play against anya and co. in AT's and ranked. You don't claim to be good BUT, "this is average gameplay" "I have never had a ping below 100-200, I've never had a problem" "i guess that's much to complicated"

Are you implying that 4 members of team USA were playing below average when they 4v1'd lance's staff staff thief and did absolutely nothing to him? The same thief who then went on to win multiple 1v1s and the game over the team who has won for almost 2 years straight?

Are you just simply a better player than them? hmmmmm

Let's not forget that you can't even identify a jump staff 3 when it's right in front of you. Count how many times he does it in the clip, I dare you LOL.

Bro just stop while you are WAY behind...

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@"Highlie.7641" said:https://clips.twitch.tv/ArtisticFairJamBlargNaut

Since hitting the number marked 2 and looking at the video right above my comment is rocket science....

Nice rant though.

Again, I made the clip, I posted the clip, I know what's in it......Please count for us, all of the jump staff 3s.......................................

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@Vicariuz.1605

What @"Highlie.7641" is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

Oh, and he/she is also saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@Vicariuz.1605

What @"Highlie.7641" is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

Oh, and he/she is also saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

It wasn't all team USA was it? Unless Malediktus, God of PvP, self professed silver player who has difficulty dodging anything under a 1s cast time has suddenly become skilled enough to qualify being taken seriously on that team.

Though if you have any evidence saying the person behind the account was different to the owner I'm sure CS would love to see it :)

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@apharma.3741 said:

What @"Highlie.7641" is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

Oh, and he/she is
also
saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

It wasn't all team USA was it? Unless Malediktus, God of PvP, self professed silver player who has difficulty dodging anything under a 1s cast time has suddenly become skilled enough to qualify being taken seriously on that team.

Though if you have any evidence saying the person behind the account was different to the owner I'm sure CS would love to see it :)

I'm pretty sure Malediktus was just memeing. He was a gold 3/plat 1 player till he learned Tools Holo. Definitely not a bad player. He plays inhouses with everyone and is a pretty cool guy. He knows what he's doing so I don't get why people are so hung up over him. He's gotten better by practicing with experienced PvPers. I mean look at Helio. He was a PvEr for the longest time and got good very quickly (much quicker than Male did) even though he didn't even touch the gamemode for the first few years iirc.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

What @"Highlie.7641" is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

Oh, and he/she is
also
saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

It wasn't all team USA was it? Unless Malediktus, God of PvP, self professed silver player who has difficulty dodging anything under a 1s cast time has suddenly become skilled enough to qualify being taken seriously on that team.

Though if you have any evidence saying the person behind the account was different to the owner I'm sure CS would love to see it :)

I'm pretty sure Malediktus was just memeing. He was a gold 3/plat 1 player till he learned Tools Holo. Definitely not a bad player. He plays inhouses with everyone and is a pretty cool guy. He knows what he's doing so I don't get why people are so hung up over him. He's gotten better by practicing with experienced PvPers. I mean look at Helio. He was a PvEr for the longest time and got good very quickly (much quicker than Male did) even though he didn't even touch the gamemode for the first few years iirc.

I believe he is referring to post #7 as well as #17 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Malediktus-9250/showposts

"I disagree, if someone paid a pro league player to duoQ with him and follow his instructions, they could probably get top 250 at any time. I already had someone offer me to help me get rank 1 in a future seasons for 5000g for example.Even if you do not hire a pro league player, playing with duoQ instead of soloQ can drastically change your win rate for better or worse over night."

"Where did I imply that I would be able to earn those MMR thresholds? After all I am silver 3 currently.But I think those MMR thresholds would make it more fair and less frustrating since moving goalposts are frustrating. Since the leaderboard currently seems to take decimal MMR into account (making it close to impossible to be tied with someone), imagine how frustrating it would be if you would miss the one of the titles by a fraction of a MMR point or drop out of top 3 or 10 because you got unlucky too often with afkers / people who get paid to throw.It would also remove the problem of having a hard capped amount of people who are allowed to earn these titles, which would allow for adding the AP back to them."

Respectively. As I'm sure apharma agrees, silver 3 to rank #1 is a very interesting "improvement" especially on a leaderboard that is notoriously camped and "gated."

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@Vicariuz.1605 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Why are people crying?

Some ape thief decided to play staff build after hot fix and got popped by me playing cele bunker scrapper LOL.

He ran sword/dagger and staff. Stop crying. The build is dead, just like people wanted. This community is just full on cringe when it comes to balance.

I hope this is a troll, because sword dagger staff is not the build being discussed in this thread. YIKES. LITERAL CRINGE. It's usually a good idea to read what the thread is about before responding.

Y'all were talking about staff/staff and some people were saying staff/shortbow and other variations. So, unless you gonna call other people out nice job for using the typical Chad lingo. A+ on vocab.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:@Vicariuz.1605

What @"Highlie.7641" is saying is that he/she would be able to kill the staff thief 1v1 way more easily than the 4 stack of Team USA members (3 of which are playing high DPS builds: rev, holo, and power mes) could in a 4v1.

Oh, and he/she is also saying that the entirety of Team USA is below average because they couldn't hit the staff thief during it's "punish frames."

as always, forum players are always better than teams that win mATforum players always know how to counter everything even tho top players publicity says its OP on their stream :)

Helseth&Co are lucky that there wasnt a Forum Players Team in the GW2 Worlds back then... they wouldnt stand a chance against these prodigies we got here

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:Why are people crying?

Some ape thief decided to play staff build after hot fix and got popped by me playing cele bunker scrapper LOL.

He ran sword/dagger and staff. Stop crying. The build is dead, just like people wanted. This community is just full on cringe when it comes to balance.

I hope this is a troll, because sword dagger staff is not the build being discussed in this thread. YIKES. LITERAL CRINGE. It's usually a good idea to read what the thread is about before responding.

Y'all were talking about staff/staff and some people were saying staff/shortbow and other variations. So, unless you gonna call other people out nice job for using the typical Chad lingo. A+ on vocab.

just following in ur wisdom laden footsteps, bro.

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