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Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP


Cal Cohen.2358

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@darksome.1697 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:
Holosmith
Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.
  • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
  • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

Rampage
Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.
  • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
    • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

I'm sorry, but are you really still working at eradicating engineers from PvP? Elixir U is the only usable stability there is for a drunken scrapper (which actually lets you still use skills while it's up), which you forced engineers into with the reduction to paper thin nothings two balance patches ago. Rampage is the ONLY mildly usable elite that a drunken scrapper has, and on top of that it is triggered randomly and therefor completely unreliable - you usually get twister mode which is as useful as a paper bag. And that's supposed to be an elite. Rampage isn't a "win button" either, you're not invulnerable while rampaging, and most classes know how to counter it. It's super easy to counter it even. So bringing that elite... "Elite" randomly triggered skill to 0.01 is just... dumb. And Holosmiths, I used to play one before being forced into drunken scrapper. Sure the class can be annoying, but they're no brutes either these days, not like they were two balance patches ago - and even then, if you know what you're doing, they're not hard to counter either, just annoying. I just can't believe you're going after engineers again. Again. Good grief.

I really dislike holosmiths, but I'm with them here (mostly). Quickness - yeah, hit it. Rampage - definitely. But leave their stab alone. Unless you're accompanying these changes with sweeping other changes to CC across the board - which it doesn't seem like you are - this is too far.

Holo was an issue of multiple things combined. If you nerf one (quickness), you don't need to - SHOULDN'T - touch the other, especially to such a degree.

The RNG of holo's elite elixir is another story alltogether ofc and I don't even want to go near that.

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Introducing counterplay to fast hitting builds like holosmith by increasing retaliation damage on tankier specs this is what stops engineer from using grenades in zergs. Also might want to look at stunlocking the quickness enhanced player by changing shocking aura to provide successively longer stun times if recently stunned by shocking aura. This might introduce a higher skill ceiling in play as canceling skills will be more useful. Thank you for trying to bring these builds back into baseline. As you also look at these long overdue nerfs, if you are going to nerf damage, please nerf in small but frequent increments instead of in how the flow the build works. I would much rather do 5% less damage than have my cooldowns messed with to make the build monotonal. I have seen this happen to elementalist.Thank You

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@Curennos.9307 said:

@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:
Holosmith
Holosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.
  • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
  • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

Rampage
Rampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.
  • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
    • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

I'm sorry, but are you really still working at eradicating engineers from PvP? Elixir U is the only usable stability there is for a drunken scrapper (which actually lets you still use skills while it's up), which you forced engineers into with the reduction to paper thin nothings two balance patches ago. Rampage is the ONLY mildly usable elite that a drunken scrapper has, and on top of that it is triggered randomly and therefor completely unreliable - you usually get twister mode which is as useful as a paper bag. And that's supposed to be an elite. Rampage isn't a "win button" either, you're not invulnerable while rampaging, and most classes know how to counter it. It's super easy to counter it even. So bringing that elite... "Elite" randomly triggered skill to 0.01 is just... dumb. And Holosmiths, I used to play one before being forced into drunken scrapper. Sure the class can be annoying, but they're no brutes either these days, not like they were two balance patches ago - and even then, if you know what you're doing, they're not hard to counter either, just annoying. I just can't believe you're going after engineers again. Again. Good grief.

I really dislike holosmiths, but I'm with them here (mostly). Quickness - yeah, hit it. Rampage - definitely. But leave their stab alone. Unless you're accompanying these changes with sweeping other changes to CC across the board - which it doesn't seem like you are - this is too far.

Holo was an issue of multiple things combined. If you nerf one (quickness), you don't need to - SHOULDN'T - touch the other, especially to such a degree.

The RNG of holo's elite elixir is another story alltogether ofc and I don't even want to go near that.

I doubt this is the end of nerfs coming.

The PvP lead is a top notch pvper himself.

Let the powersweep begin.

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I want arenanet to handle mesmer correctly. Mesmer has recieved MANY nerfs since the release of Mirage and the main problem is the trait Infinite Horizon, I think if infinite horizon (and the other horrendous grandmaster traits) are reworked COMPLETELY the class will be much weaker. I think nerfing the condition application to ambush skills is a mistake and the action should be removing infinite horizon. The other answer is a clause where clones created with deceptive evasion do not trigger infinite horizon first. So the reality is if a mesmer dodges and creates a clone, that clone CANNOT be killed and does an ambush attack ON CREATION. If you remove that condition mesmer wont need nearly as many nerfs to damage application. however the result would be 3 totally useless grandmaster traits. I am also a big fan of removing the exhaustion/stunbreak out of Elusive Mind and add 2 conditions cleansed on dodge. This is healthy for mesmer because it really lacks condition cleanse. Illusions traitline and inspirations need buffs/reworks because of all the nerfs caused by Infinite Horizon. The trait NEEDS to be deleted but they have to compensate by giving back to mesmer what they took. I think condi SHATTER mesmer should be returned to the game and the overall evades reduced. No IH would mean no deceptive evasion. But condition mirage lost TOO much condition application on shatter. Mirage is a great class with a couple adjustments that are needed. But the current problem is due to ALL the nerfs to ALL the aspects of mesmer the class relys completely on Infinite Horizon for viability. I have many other changes and wishes for the health/balance of the game in the future.

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Good nerfs especially for mirageNot like double clone production is needed (and was buffed to this in the past) and neither is cheesy 12+ sec bleeds and torment - we all use expertise amulet now anyway.

Also different holo builds will be more viable - some didnt use kb and elixir u to begin with

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@foste.3098 said:

@SoulSin.5682 said:Seems good.You could also remove the dodge frames from Vault. Its already a very strong leap with damage and AoE, it never needed the dodge frames.Absolutely not! Vault was never an issue at all for the last 4+ years and it was not the issue in the staff/staff setup that won the last at.This suggestion is akin to saying warrior gs 3 could stand to have its evade frames removed because it is a fine skill that moves you a distance and is a whirl finisher; or ele dagger 3 in fire could stand to lose evasion frames because it is a fine skill without it.

The problem is indeed, not with a vault.The problem is how a staff thief connects one dodge to another and never stop.

I am fine with thieves spamming Dodge + Debilitating Arc if they need to get more defensive, plus they still have blind with Dust Strike. There is no need for Vault to be a dodge as well.The thief must decide between playing more offensive or more defensive. Vault is an offensive skill, there is no need to have dodge frames.

@reikken.4961 said:How about making this trait only apply when swapping to a different weapon set?---------------------------------------------------- [...]------------------------------------------------------------If the goal is making it more grindy rather than bursty, I'd think reducing the maximum number of spider venom stacks would be better. Also gives people more time to counter by throwing out their cleanses. After 4-5 seconds (3 seconds + extra poison duration) you've usually already cleansed it anyway, if you haven't already died to a few seconds of 18 stacks of poison or whatever. Plus it would nerf the burst without impacting builds that use the shadow arts trait to repeatedly stack spider venom and apply it to wear people down over time.

I can get behind those two suggestions. Tough I would reduce the cooldown of venons if they get less stacks.Or perhaps adding charges with long cooldowns?

Also + 1 for the quickpocket idea.

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So you want the ONLY viable builds from the Warrior Tactics line to be support builds. . . Why even have warrior's cunning if you're making this change? People who want damage will just go back to Strength, Arms, or Discipline. Way to make an interesting and niche trait boring.

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whooaaa…some huge nerfs. some thoughts:

elixir u - so I think this is fine. its holo's quickness, vigor, and sustain thats the problem.rampage - definitely needed a huge nerf but this might be overkill. I think a blanket damage reduction is a better way to go since a full might stacked warrior will still kill anyone with one auto attack chain.warriors cunning - another overkill imo. maybe both do a little more then what you have listed? the 50% boost is the main culprit here.quick pockets - might as well change this to something else. no one will use it.staff thief - reduce weakness uptime and lower some coefficients. doesn't need huge nerfs.

all classes - remove all + endurance traits, nerf might stacks, lower damage modifier traits for pvp/ wvw, nerf quickness/ vigor/ protection. nerf fury a little bit.

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@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Condi MirageWe understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

  • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
  • Phantasmal Warlock:
    • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
    • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
  • Chaos Vortex:
    • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
    • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
    • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

Actually I'm happy that the double clone production on staff and scepter is back to normal, it was already one of my suggestions because it make a gap with other weapons in regards to mesmer main mecanic (shatter).Even if it mean a high nerf both for shatter damage and to F4 survival.However don't miss to scale the direct damage of phantasmal warlock, not only the vulnerability aspect please.

About chaos vortex nerf, every good player know how to manage this line telegraphied ambush with high cast animation.That said I see 2 problems with this :1) condimirage will continue to not use his ambush offensively but only defensively like now which will don't change the pressure by clone auto gameplay at all.2) Mirage can't really play a shatter gameplay because other GM apart IH are trash and condi core is better when playing shatter condimes. So he can only play ambush/clone gameplay with IH and with ambush having little impact in condi, core will gain more interests and powermirage who can use his ambush offensively and defensively will be more interesting.

That said I didn't care about this change because for me powermirage is already at the same efficiency level.Note that if staff as an utility weapon = only a kite weapon who didn't do something other than teleport back, it seems limited.

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I think most of these changes are good, serpents touch is iffy as it affects every thief build, not just the overperforming ones but it doesn't make that big of a difference.My only contention isWarrior’s CunningWe’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.I think this is overkill, and core warrior will vanish back to obscurity after these changes. I think it was a really cool idea to have a class that countered barrier spam unkillable side noders like weaver or prot holo, as they are generally pretty unfun to play against. While this trait was definitely overtuned and broken it would be nice if core warrior still had a niche in the meta. (which it wont if these changes happen, especially with rampage nerfs)Maybe make it 15% for targets above 90% and 25% more to barrier?Something else that's broken and I think deserves a nerf is the menders symbol spam firebrand that has been running around crazy in ranked, unranked, and AT's as well.Just the other day I played against a triple firebrand double prot holo comp in finals. Symbolbrand is equally cancerous and overpowered as the aforementioned-soon-to-be-nerfed classes. Please nerf them too, as tools holo and condi mes were the only classes keeping them in check, and without them the balance will be thrown off.

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@Cal Cohen.2358 said:

General

  • Sigil of Agility has been removed from the PvP build panel

Seems fair enough.

Condi ThiefThe main issue we’re looking to address with condi thief is the initial burst potential. Long term there are definitely questions about how this build is applying conditions, but for now we want to push it more toward a grindy build than a bursty one.

  • Spider Venom: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
  • Serpent's Touch: Reduced poison stacks from 2 to 1 in PvP only

Not sure this'll solve the problems, but it's an appreciated start.

HolosmithHolosmith quickness has been a big point of feedback and we’re planning to make some adjustments there. Removing Sigil of Agility was part of this, and we’re also looking at a minor nerf to Kinetic Battery.

This leaves Elixir U. We’re considering a quickness reduction here as well, but are currently leaning toward an interesting change that’s worth discussing. That change being a heavy reduction of the stability granted. The goal of this change is to leave U as the big quickness skill, but also open the door for more counterplay. This would give opportunity to avoid Corona Burst and then CC the holosmith instead of just getting run over by quickness.

  • Kinetic Battery: Reduced quickness duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only
  • Elixir U: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 1 second in PvP only

Core engi and scrapper are already having trouble remaining competitive so, rather than nerf core skills and traits, couldn't you just tune down some numbers on holo instead? People have been calling for shaves to sustain (Heat Therapy) and DPS pretty much since holo was introduced and, while there were some adjustments, more work could probably be done here.

Condi MirageWe understand that Mirage Cloak is a big point of contention and we’ve been having discussions internally, but it isn’t something that we’ll be ready to action for this update. As we get closer to our desired solution we’ll start to talk about it more with you all, but in the meantime we’re looking at some more general changes. Primarily toning down clone generation and reducing some damage potential of staff, pushing it more toward a utility kit.

  • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the number of clones spawned on block from 2 to 1 in PvP only
  • Phantasmal Warlock:
    • Reduced the number of warlocks spawned from 2 to 1 in PvP only.
    • Increased the vulnerability applied per hit from 2 stacks to 4 stacks in PvP only
  • Chaos Vortex:
    • Reduced bleed duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only.
    • Reduced burn duration from 2 seconds to 1 second in PvP only.
    • Reduced Torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds in PvP only

Glad to see that there are plans for a Mirage Cloak rework (it probably is the main offender here on this spec), but these changes should help in the meantime.

RampageRampage has been overperforming since the initial change that brought its cooldown to 90 seconds, and continues to with the cooldown at 120 seconds. Rather than just bumping up the cooldown again, we’re looking to address an underlying issue: hard CC skills also doing large amounts of damage. This is something that we’re looking to do across the board for the future update, and we see Rampage as a good opportunity to see the idea in action.

  • Rampage skills have been adjusted as follows
    • Kick: Power coefficient reduced from 1.2 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Throw Boulder: Power coefficient reduced from 2.0 to 0.01 in PvP only
    • Seismic Leap: Power coefficient reduced from 1.6 to 0.01 in PvP only

I mean, damn, this is kinda' gutting most of Rampage's damage potential, but I guess it's still got...something going for it? Again, the skill needs to be toned down, but this might be a bit much.

I also worry that using the Rampage changes to gauge other future potential changes for bloated skills (e.g., Bull's Charge, Executioner's Scythe, etc.) might be a bit of a disanalogy, given everything else that the elite does. Don't get me wrong: bloat needs to be reduced, but not at the full cost of a skill's functionality.

Warrior’s CunningWe’re making an adjustment to bring Warrior’s Cunning more in-line with other damage traits.

  • Warrior's Cunning: Reduced damage bonus against targets above 90% health from 25% to 7% in PvP only. Reduced damage bonus against targets with barrier from 50% to 10% in PvP only.

This is interesting and, while I'm open to the change, I wonder if this won't re-cement Tactics as a PvE-only line again (but maybe folks are okay with that?).

Staff ThiefAs mentioned the other day, we want to revisit the recent change to Debilitating Arc for the next balance update. There are still concerns about putting it back to 4 initiative, but it doesn’t really make sense for it to coexist with Vault at 6. We’re reducing the cost to 5 while making some minor adjustments to Quick Pockets and Staff Master.

  • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
  • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
  • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

Like notes on condi thief: it's a welcome start.

As bluberblasen noted, hopefully you're looking at implementing some (all?) such changes for WvW as well.

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Wow, these changes came out fast and are really spot on (would be nice to see these changes applied to WvW too) :)!

Just an idea for Mirage and Chrono. Removing distortion and illusionary persona (LP) was too much, just taking away the former would have been fine as Chrono's clone generation/ up time really isn't that high (at least compared to Mirage). However these changes done to Chrono could actually (I know this is going to get some backlash) balance out Mirage really well with how the specialization functions. Mirage does not need distortion as it has Mirage cloak (a fancy distortion) on top of this Mirage also has really good (maybe even considerably high) clone generation and up time. I would not be surprised if removing LP and distortion brought Mirage inline, of course this is no minor change and would also require changes to a few traits and maybe even a new unique shatter for Mirage to replace distortion (at least one could hope ;) ).All in all these "minor" changes are spot on and the speed at witch you and your team did this is amazing! A big THANK YOU is definitely in order :)

(Edit grammar)

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Overall good changes so far but:

Heavily missing Weaver dodge uptime nerfs. It will be the new big dog on side nodes.

Missing Ranger Gazelle nerfs this damn thing still charge for 10k on crack (quickness)...

Rampage might be a little bit overnerfed, keep an eye on that not that Warriors run around without any good elite.

Holo nerfs are very tame but it is a good start, inparticular the quickness part. I maybe would give them one more second of stability but one less second of quickness, what is ofc quite the opposite from your thoughts about the elixir.

The quickness Sigil rly was the least issue in terms of quickness uptime, you should have focused more on class specific quickness uptime (traits, skills) instead killing the one and only little quickness access of some builds not overperforming with it at all. Still bearable.

Reducing Mesmers clone generation from weapons to have opportunity costs between dmg traits and clone generation traits like DE is very good, i asked for that since the illusion rework. Sadly you still nerf Mesmers own and for that active sources of condi dmg instead the clone ambushes and clone autoattacks from condi weapons. Nerf these two remarkable and give more Condi dmg to shatters back. At this point just switch from one source to the other more active one, don't nerf more.

@SoulSin.5682 said:

Staff Thief
As mentioned the other day, we want to revisit the recent change to Debilitating Arc for the next balance update. There are still concerns about putting it back to 4 initiative, but it doesn’t really make sense for it to coexist with Vault at 6. We’re reducing the cost to 5 while making some minor adjustments to Quick Pockets and Staff Master.
  • Quick Pockets: Reduced initiative gained on weapon swap from 3 to 2 in PvP only
  • Staff Master: Reduced endurance gain per initiative spent from 2 to 1 in PvP only
  • Debilitating Arc: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5 in PvP only

Seems good.You could also remove the dodge frames from Vault. Its already a very strong leap with damage and AoE, it never needed the dodge frames.

Without the dodge frame a Thief could never finish a single Vault without getting interrupted by even the slowest and hardest cc in the game rofl, ppl have ideas...The only thing i would like to see is a more different animation to Bound dodge and maybe a very very little longer vulnerability frame in the end of Vault. But the first thing would be great already. I think a bigger problem is Bound anyway, who thought it is a good idea to give a nearly perma spammable not interruptable stealth combo to any class? Maybe switch the combo finisher to Vault instead Bound or something? At least you can interrupt Vault.

@Levetty.1279 said:So you are going to destroy Mirage like you did Chrono? I don't know why are going out of your way to try and make so many classes unfun to play rather then actually trying to balance things but you are just driving people away from the game.

Yes i am fearful of upcoming changes to instant skills and trade offs for other elite specs. The few already happend were badly made, not adding skill ceiling often even lowering it and killing game flow for no reason. In particular when it comes to Mesmer it feels like there is no one in the Anet department left rly knowing how the class works and what it needs for fluid and skillful gameplay and what is not op no matter that all the silver/ gold heroes cry about it.

Mirage Cloak actually is no problem as it is (in particular not after all the vigor nerfs, means as long as Mirage can't spam dodges like there is no tomorrow), also not in PvP and never was a reason Condimirage was op. The ability to dodge during stun is an inherent strength of the spec vs cc. Looks broken on the first view and sure easy to use as an argument when you cry about Mesmer in your favorite pub during drinking a beer at the crackerbarrel with your friends, but on a closer and more knowledgable and less exaggerating look not gamebreaking at all (also compared to EM) because it has counterplay, the Mirage still gets highly rewarded for evading the cc in the first place (being able to move and disengage, being able to cast skills, most cc duration is longer than one dodge what is an issue for a glassy spec like light armor Mesmer) and it is not neutralising the cc completely, it just needs one more braincell to counter that and sadly with the very low skill lvl and lazyness of the ppl left in this game they just cry about it. As long as we have passive immunity vs cc and passive stabi application and unpunished stunbreak-dodges like Revs and Weavers in this game it is kind of hypocrite to cry about that.

@soul.6527 said:I know that these aren't the final posts and I say what I saw is perfectly fine even though I am a warrior player I understand that rampage was off the hooks. But I think you need to go look at power Mesmer its so close to being able to be played and not feeling like a handy cap and maybe do something similar to what you guys did for ele and buff the miners and 0 power Mesmer could be played again. But when doing so don't accidentally buff Condi mes its already in its Owen place that is a bit op but can be easy to tip into the trash can and I don't want that I just want something like buffs to domination, dueling, and mirage minors to boost the viability of a power spec for PVP

Powermes doesn't need any buffs when everything else gets nerfs. Nothing in this game actually needs buffs. And there even is room for some reworks (not nerfs) of some unhealthy mechanics like PU, rework EM into something not broken and not overnerfed and the general rework of passive and stackable dmg mulitplier traits like Superiority Complex over all classes. I would prefer that runes/ sigils are the only things providing passive dmg boni and traits only give dmg boni linked to player actions, means more active and more skillbased (as Deceptive Evasion for example).

Also as we could see Mantra of Pain still gets used. The line of sight restriction, even though it clearly makes sense, still didn't prevent its uses for the oneshot combo where you face your target anyway. It is still spammable too high instant range dmg without any counterplay. I would delete the line of sight restriction from both Mantras and just rework MoP into a non dmg Mantra (aoe Boon remove as suggested for example). MoP was the only Mantra rly needed the restriction but still is not balanced with it. Before you nerf all Mantras to death or even worse, give them cast time, only to balance out one op Mantra, you better just rework this one Mantra into something without braindead spammable high instant range dmg.

Btw one important thing for one instant skill i forgot to mention: Instant skills should never be unblockable, means remove the unblockable from Swipe but never ever give Swipe a cast time pls!

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The 1 second of stability on Elixir U is too short. The 6 seconds is too much because the boon duration from leadership runes + alchemy pushes that to 10 seconds. I think the bigger issue is Corona Burst requiring 2 defensive skills to avoid. Moving both procs of stability to the initial hit and reducing the stability duration on Elixir U to 3 seconds would make more sense.

Also, please increase the cooldown of Elixir U to 45 or 50 seconds (36 vs 40s traited). It is literally a straight upgrade in every way compared to a ranger's Quickening Zephyr (which has a base 45s cd so I think Elixir U being increased to 50s would be fair) and it has a lower cooldown to boot.

I'm a little bummed about the Sigil of Agility change but it's probably healthy for the gamemode. The rest of it looks fine imo, especially regarding Rampage. Rampage will still hit hard (2-4k on crits) post-nerf but the skills shouldn't be able to one shot anymore. Nice job, you guys came up with relatively on-point changes pretty quickly. Keep up the good work.

OH SHOOT

You guys missed a HUGE one! PLEASE nerf the double proc reveal from Lock On. Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc. This trait is hyper busted! 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

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@"shadowpass.4236" said:

OH SHOOT

You guys missed a HUGE one. PLEASE nerf the double proc reveal from Lock On. Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc. This trait is hyper busted! 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

Amen

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Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

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Please give me CI back. As some of mirage players said before, the problem is not CI, the problem is the way condi mirage do damage. Anet killed a high-skilled (focus on interrupting skill) build....Can't you understand that interrupt is not as easy as you think, and that -5s is a piece of shit.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

Because now condimirage use sword :D.18 stacks of bleeding on a skill with a CD and a 2 time animation (phantasm cast + phantasm attack) is more than fine btw.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

Because now condimirage use sword :D.18 stacks of bleeding on a skill with a CD and a 2 time animation (phantasm cast + phantasm attack) is more than fine btw.

1 button = 18 bleeds

No it's really not fine but you can keep lying to yourself. :D

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