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Omnicron.2467
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ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?
Omnicron.2467
Member ✭✭✭
Please give us some hope that all the comments in the Feedback Thread are not for nothing and tells us in an official announcement how you intend to respond to the issues raised.
The mood, as I read it, it pretty low, feeling that nothing will come of out feedback. An announcement would really help the communication with the player base, by making them feel heard and knowing what they can expect.
I have been reading the thread and the issues raised are fairly consistent and can easily be summarized into a few main bullet points. I would just like to know how you as a company feel about the issues raised.
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They did make an announcement. They put most of the feedback in one thread. They deleted couple of thread with harsh criticism without giving notice. Will their read from their own thread? Well... about that...
https://killproof.me/proof/2vLg
https://gw2efficiency.com/account/character/Meshizaru
Give them some time, it's only been a couple of days.
It's easy on the outside looking in but these things always take far more time than most think.
It's been over a month not couple of days.
https://killproof.me/proof/2vLg
https://gw2efficiency.com/account/character/Meshizaru
Really? Templates were officially released on Tuesday. That's hardly a month. Granted, there were many, many complaints and suggestions for templates prior to the official release (and Anet might well have considered some of them?), but I wouldn't expect Anet to really concern themselves with any feedback until the actual implementation went live. Most of the pre-release talk was conjecture at best as we, the player base, didn't have the templates in place to really work with and see things for which we could provide feedback.
I am a very casual player.
Very.
Casual.
We've seen them on Tuesday, October 1st. That's when you suppose to give feedback so they can tweak it before it's released and paid for. Most people who gave feedback in that time already pointed out most of the issues that we are experiencing right now.
https://killproof.me/proof/2vLg
https://gw2efficiency.com/account/character/Meshizaru
I can cover this one even though I am in no way affiliated with ANet. They Don't. Just like the other times the community was pissed off they will ignore it until it blows over. It never changes, They no longer care what we have to say. All of the feedback they received after the announcement and they did not care. It is no longer anything but a product to make money off of. They don't care if they lose people because there will always be people that will buy things and the ones they lose aren't a concern anymore.
Why? They aren't fixed yet.
If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.
OP, you do realize they aren't going to make any changes to them right? People are already buying them in the current iteration, they did exactly what they intended to with them (gem store sales). Personally, I liked the way builds were done in GW1, but with the launch having already happened, the only change that could happen is they will increase the number of equipment tabs and build tabs available. I'm not saying don't continue making suggestions, I just think the community should realize that templates are what they are, and it isn't going to change.
Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.
Yes, but I was recalling how they dealt with the mount skin license uproar where we did get an official response as well as changes which resulted in the addition of the Mount Select License ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license/p1 ). Now the original license was never changed, so I am not sure what we can expect or hope for here
I would personally be greatly placated by having the templates separate for each game mode. If I got 3 per game mode I would feel really blessed, so even 2 for WvW and PvP with 3 for PvE would feel fair and a wonderful addition with enough incentive to buy more. I do not think this will negatively affect those who have already purchased them. The price for me is not the main thing, its how few we have due to the lack of a split, and hence the need to buy (it really does not feel like an option)
The other feature bugs and shortcomings (like gear swapping changing the template) are fixes which one can also hope for.
Arenanet responding to threads is a rare occasion.
It's possibly even rarer than invisible shoe boxes.
Unfortunately not much is going to happen. They are active on the forums merging all threads related to templates into one (damage control). They are allowing you to air your grievances, etc., so that you have some sort of voice for an undetermined amount of time. At some point they will say something along the lines of, "Thank you for your feedback, we have enough information and our next step is to review said feedback" and will close the thread. They will ask you to remain patient while they work out what their next step is.
In the meantime they will attempt to fix the bugs that the templates are causing and that will be it. They will release a stabilization fix and hope that the news has blown over by that point. I doubt there will be significant changes and with LS E1 coming in the near future they hope all will be forgotten.
We've seen this same process before and it's not likely to be any different this time around.
why they had to respond?
main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).
They can only do that if they do intend to respond to the issues raised, which, at the moment, seems pretty unlikely.
Nothing. If you look at the statement they made about the Mount License uproar, you'd have noticed that they never admitted to making any design mistakes. What they said was that they were sorry that the bad players misunderstood their good intentions. And, as you have noticed, they changed exactly nothing wbout the original, first Mount Licence. That's likely exactly what you should expect now - them making a statement about how people misunderstood the system (or making no statement at all), and then making no further changes apart from introducing those 4 more tabs they've already made but are currently hidden, while mentioning how they're adding them "as a response to player feedback". All the core problems with the system will almost certainly remain as they are however.
The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.
They’ll do bug fixes but they’re not going to make changes unless sales of these items are below their expectations. If that happens they’ll probably drop the prices and maybe look at some options, such as making them account bound instead of character bound.
Be careful what you ask for
ANet might give it to you.
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An announcement of how they intend to respond isn't going to happen. We are lucky to get one level of communication. They aren't going to say "we intend to tell you things," they'll just tell us the things once they have them in presentable official form.
@Omnicron.2467 >>> ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?
Game Developers DON'T ever make announcements over "how they intend to respond players' feedback on matter XYZ "
I learnt many, many, years ago, to accept Game Developers will make changes, updates as they see fit, and not based on popular player opinion.
Anet's microtranscation business model is one that targets the few (~3% richest players) and not the many (subscription based model), and this top richest % of players will buy everything on offer in microtransactions: The $$$ amounts to these individuals will seem paltry amounts compared to what the general community sees them as.
Ergo Anet will not mind one bit the general gaming community complaining on forum about any monetization issue or even quitting playing altogether, since the top ~3% richest players will go on playing and spending regardless.
WWE 2k20 released in an unplayable form in one of the glitchiest major releases Ive ever seen. 2K games ignored the community for days to utter outrage. It's the same model of comms Anet and many other gaming companies use when issues arise and it always backfires.
I would hope in this modern day and age, companies were savvy enough to understand that you jump on an issue immediately, you manage the problem and keep customers informed - esp in the social media age where things spiral out of control exponentially the longer they are left. You will never satisfy everyone because some are looking for an excuse to have a go, but actually most people are pretty respectful when treated the same way and will be a lot more forgiving and understanding when kept constantly in the loop.
I have no personal issues with the templates and am quite satisfied with what I got, but I can recognise there is enough legitimate feedback from others to be addressed and addressed immediately, even if implementation takes time. Enough feedback is out there now to understand where they need to action anything
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
Have you ever considered that you're creating too much noise, some of it very angry, and there's no way any sane Human being would want to sift through all of that, especially when they likely aren't paid enough to do so on top of all their efforts ?
Companies are made of the people that work there, and alot of them are just trying to pay the bills. Have some empathy, and ArenaNet will likely communicate with the players more, but as it is the forums have become little more than anger, negativity and even borderline hatred. I'm a game developer myself and on our last project we had to shut the forums down because it was giving the other devs anxiety.
Would you really want to talk to someone who hates you ? Alot of these people aren't even buying anything.
Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
No need to be best, only good and kind.
It's kind of a catch-22
People have been building up their frustrations over the last few months with how ANET handles the game and lacks communication.
Would you want to talk to angry customers? Ofc not. But, should you completely ignore them either? No, they will only speak more loudly.
That's the problem. People don't feel like they are heard...so they are voicing their opinions louder and louder.
It's getting kinda hard to watch at this point. They don't seem to be able to do much 'right' lately but are gleefully still charging ridiculous amounts of money for a very poorly developed product. I don't know how to fix it,,,,but ignoring it will only sew seeds of mistrust later and the next issue will blow up even larger. It is the trend we have seen lately.
Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK
It's true that some people can be downright vitriolic and that's not very constructive. But the vast majority of what I'm reading hasn't been hateful, just frustrated. Sure, it's easy for the devs to take it personally, but they have to be able to meet the community halfway with a thicker skin if there is to be a better relationship and communication.
You don't need an announcement for that. It'll be the same as everything else. Ignore unless it boils over then you quickly try to throw some towels on it before it gets all over the floor.
From merged thread
We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.
Stéphane Lo Presti
Content Marketing Manager
Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK
It wasn't conjecture. The "templates" work exactly as shown in the stream.
This response just underscores how immature the IT and gaming industry is. A mature industry would learn how to handle this stuff, not convince themselves to close down communications.
It may take more than three days to resolve these kind of things, be patient.
They don't have to respond they just have to revamp them to be less hostile, buggy and clunky...
Thats exactly what they want... So customers will shut up and get over it.. Well no. These Build tabs are a clunky broken mess and we actually have less build choices now than we did before they were added... Before we had three builds PvE, PvP and WVW, now we have 2 gear builds.. Its a joke.
Here's your feedback, from the Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates:
It's timely and appropriate. Anyone that professes they expect more I feel is either unrealistic in their expectations or simply being a provocateur.
Players need to be more patient. There is a procedure to the process, one that anyone who works in an organisation with a critical mass of employees that deals with a public/customer-base can appreciate.
I don't want solutions! I want to be angry!
The Commander will end you.
Actually we wanted solutions several weeks ago when it was obvious via the information provided that the system was going to fall well short of even basic expectations, that it would work.
We are now into the "We told you so" and they are asking us for solutions and feedback as they are so out of touch and behind the curve
Thanks for sharing!> @Acheron.4731 said:
Thanks for sharing!
I love the templates. Never used Arcdps. I bet lots of the non-forum people are like me. Man, is the competitive-mode crowd loud on these forums.
i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.
I like them too..but I hope they make them more affordable.
They are over rpiced. And account shared trait templates, should be free.
When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...
That is not really true though.
If they had fully ignored the feedback from HoT release, they would have never sold PoF at a lower price than the base game and they would have never forced new players to purchase HoT in addition to PoF.
If you think they are going to fully ignore a game wide feature that affect all players from casual to hardcore that is also available at any lvl, I think you are just both very jaded and blowing things out of proportion.
Sure they are some refinements to make about the system but it doesn’t mean that the system is fundamentally broken.
Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.
They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..
Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
Of course you meant to say "All the <1% of the playerbase that post on the forums complained"..
IIRC ANET actually took notice of the negativity that surrounded the HoT launch and came back with some alterations.. notably providing an additional character slot for vet players.. they are not all bad I guess
Rioting does nothing but appease one's own need to be controversial and for others anarchy is their fun pit.
Try asking those affected by riots and rebellion blockades how they feel about it when they get verbally abused just for living, working or trying to get somewhere or when their properties are damaged or destroyed, livelyhoods affected, shops looted.. yeah riots are fun things I guess.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.
I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.
There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.
"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.
It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.
ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.
Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.
Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.
The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.
Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.
Whales are a dependable source of income but since they've already done their big spending they're not profit-makers. Them giving away HoT with a PoF purchase pretty much confirms it's not the whales they're relying on. It's new player churn that makes the money. New players come in for a few months and impulse spend and then move on once they're bored. The frivolous stuff in the cash shop shows they know this is where their coin comes from and are aiming at them.
The Commander will end you.
With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.
Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.
There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.
ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
give it a few weeks? They've had more than a month of feedback and have continued to ignore everything.
Sure they had a few weeks prior to the patch to gather info.. saw it was all about "I want, we want, must have, entitled" and let the patch go live.
Now its in and working .. of sorts, they can now look to fix things, sift through the genuine issues and if necessary throw us an extra treat to munch on if they have the wiggle room to do so.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
"Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.
I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.
Its crazy how fast customers seem to think these are coded.. I don't like the implementation of build templates either but making changes takes weeks or months, full overhauls might take longer.. Although with Anet track record i cannot see an overhaul.
You are better off hitting their twitters and facebooks en mass.. but you need lots of people one person just gets deleted.
Prices are dead set no matter what (reimbursement isn't in their vocabulary). I'm never going to purchase any upgrades unless they go 50% off minimum.
Bad press is still press.. that is why each update brings new players in and old players back.. the model easily allows for it . As I said if we were talking about a sub based MMO you might have more traction. The monthly returns from gemstore etc is what does the most talking not a few outspoken words from some entitled players. who can't get over the fact they wanted something so bad, but don't like having to pay for the luxury. Using third party options has been good not just for the players but for ANET in gauging its demand a little bit more accurately than putting fingers to the wind.
Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!
but what response we wait?
At firts - is template mostly done ok? - yes, it is mostly nice.
Is non arcdps template users lose something ? - mostly no. Ofc need each time switch from open world to pvp/wvw build trait is strange, but this is not big issue.
Can be it cheaper or have "buy all option for whole account and future characters" whit magic 75% reduce price ? yes, it can be. And can be not be.
So, again, what response we wait ?
want solid balance ? - play chess.
Yes, I don't see a base price cut on the horizon. However sales do happen for other in game items and build templates would likely be something they would run sales on. This is a game financed through the cash shop now and people have to realize this is the alternative to a subscription. We get living story updates and some basic feature implementations for free. However luxuries like expanded build storage will be monetized. People who support the game with gem purchases will get the goodies. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules.
As far as the other things that are likely to happen based on my experiences (and I've been a GW2 player since launch) this is what my guess is:
Bugs like ejection of sigils etc will be fixed.
Misfeatures like lack of automatic loading when switching games modes will be addressed.
Adjustments to functionality like lack of linkage of builds to equipment specs? Who knows. I think that's what players need to focus their lobbying on. The current implementation would be MUCH more valuable if this was supported. Arguments to Anet that they would sell more build storage slots if the build contained equipment specs could be very persuasive.