In response to cmc, about Guardian.

Tharan.9085 · October 29, 2019

Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

Zephoid.4263 · October 29, 2019

Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.

You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.

While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.

All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.Wall is the only consecration worth taking.Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).

Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

Dantheman.3589 · October 29, 2019

@Tharan.9085 said:Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

@Zephoid.4263 said:Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.
You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.
While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.
All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.Wall is the only consecration worth taking.Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).
Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

FtoPScrub.5476 · October 30, 2019

Bring back core and DH. Symbol FB is braindead and should be gutted for the sake of bringing some semblance of skill back to guardian.

Math.5123 · October 30, 2019

@Dantheman.3589 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:Scepter isnt funktional at all, the projectiles still work like GW1 projectiles.

Scepter is definitely outdated, but it works.

@"Zephoid.4263" said:Scepter isn't a good weapon. 3 is extremely outdated, 2 is generic, and 1 is completely awful. However, the dps scepter puts out is actually pretty good if you are getting hits. At one point, the best raid build for guard was just camping scepter since 2 out-damaged greatsword.
You take it because sometimes you need a stand-off weapon set. When you have a few secs between cooldowns, you need something to stay engaged. Seeing a 2 melee primary guard really lets a lot of smart players kite you around.
While i like a lot of these thoughts, i'm not sure they are putting pressure in the right places. Only hammer needs any changes for weapon balances. Yes, others could be touched, but i would rather see utilities changed over weapon skills.
All of the shouts besides Stand Your Ground are complete and utter garbage and need a rework.Signet of Mercy and Bane Signet are the only signets that are ever taken.Wall is the only consecration worth taking.Spirit hammer is utter garbage and the spirit shield is still bugged after ~2 years (it is invisible on except in specific situations).
Fix the utilities into something relevant. The weapon skills are a bit outdated, but the utilities have largely been trash since BETA. Easily worse than thief traps that just got a major rework.

Honestly hammer and scepter could see changes, but guardian has long been severely outdated and yet still very good in pvp. Fix everything else first before changing every single weapon.

"Changing every single weapon", you're making it sounds like I'm asking for complete overhauls. A simple velocity bonus, so that our only ranged dps weapon can actually, you know, hit from more outside melee range would be fantastic. It even had its auto damage nerfed last patch.

Math.5123 · October 30, 2019

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:Bring back core and DH. Symbol FB is braindead and should be gutted for the sake of bringing some semblance of skill back to guardian.

While I would love to be able to play Hammer guard or medi-DH again. I feel like they are currently what the golden standard SHOULD be ingame. I believe we won't ever get back to that considering the design of many of the PoF specs, but cmc's comment in mind (saying he wants to reduce the power-creep) all we can do is hope now I guess.I would hope that he starts by toning down all the blatantly obvious OP classes, followed by all the un-fun shit like Mirage, DE, Staff Staff DrD etc etc.

Arken.3725 · October 31, 2019

In response to those above concerning Scepter. I currently have three builds I'm working on using, one of which utilizes Scepter. The other two, Staff with Axe/Shield. As much as I'd love to comment on the changes suggested within the OP, I'm a little too tired from posting hundreds of times concerning feedback. I'll just leave this as something that I believe should be heeded.

Instant skills(meditations for instance) are crap, they have no counter-play other than guessing. I personally prefer having cast-times as a way to fight back(Mantra charge-up time for example)

Slow weapons should hit or be more significant than their faster counterparts, I'd imagine anyone here would agree. (looking at you hammer)

When you're lacking gimmicky/bs mechanics, you should be compensated as such(evades on skills, stealth, instant and significant burst, crazy condi-variation, ect.) I'm not going to go deep into this because I'm going to get a lot of flak for this but hear me when I say STEALTH has NO reliable counter in this game. It's an insanely strong mechanic. That's all.

Get-out-of-jail traits should not exist(luckily, Guardian has none of these).

If you're within range of a skill and you're not blinded, the target isn't invulned/stealthed/blocking/aegis or whatever, your skill SHOULD hit. Tracking issue's are terrible game design(looking at you Scepter).

Thank you all for your time.

zoopop.5630 · October 31, 2019

@Dantheman.3589 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@Dantheman.3589 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:@Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Dantheman.3589 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.
Guardian
It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.
Weapons
Greatsword
Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.
#2 Whirling Wrath
- It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
Remove the movement slow.
#5 Binding Blade
- Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal
Scepter
Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.
#1 Orb of Wrath
- Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
Increase velocity, keep damage as is.
Sword
A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.
#2 Symbol of Blades
- Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
Revert the damage nerf in PvP
Hammer
Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (
https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).
#2 Mighty / Glacial blow
- Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.
#4 Banish
- Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).
Axe
Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.
#2 Symbol of Vengeance
- The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)

The weapons are all basically op as they are- scepter on a symbol build is one of the strongest in the game even after crazy nerfs. Guardian is already op and these changes will just make all guard builds meta.

The one symbol build that is currently being used. Symbolbrand / Sagebrand both use Sword / Axe.

Lol you guys clearly haven’t seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. The symbol build your claiming is the only one in existence is the one made by Chataton- which is probably the last build seen for symbol brand. Scepter has been one of the most common weapons on symbols since Hot. You probably missed the streams of players like Ryan and Arlen getting ranks 3 and 5 respectively right when PoF came out. Scepter is completely busted on symbols and a buff will tilt the scales like crazy.

The irony of you telling someone "you clearly haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years"...... and then using as your example...... stuff that happened more than 2 years ago.

Clearly, you haven't seen any guardian play in the past 2 years. Scepter is not used anywhere in PvP, by anyone above Gold. It is straight up trash. The symbol on it does 'okay' damage...... if the target sits in it for the full duration. Which will literally never happen. It was clearly supposed to be combo'd with the immobilise, but these days people are farting out cleanses and immob-breaks every second, so that combo will, again, straight up never happen. And even if it does happen, it'll still do maybe 4-5k damage. Hardly OP.

And I like how you glossed over the long list of nerfs being suggested, to tunnel on the one minor buff, to a weapon that is never used anywhere, and on the basis of that decide that was is being proposed is "huge buffs".

Not used anywhere in pvp? Lol some of best Guardians in the game always use scepter. Literally the person I duo queued with always uses scepter and he was in legend after 1 day of climbing if he played the entire season he probably would’ve been god of pvp. Also 3/4 of the other actually good firebrands and guardians in Na use it.

You are literally saying scepter is never used in gold when literally all the best guardians NA use it!!! I don’t know much about What EU guys play but we literally made Gratchaton rage quit on NA by farming his kitten. Still are u going to say that scepter on symbols- One of the most op weapons in the game is not used!!??

You guys Don’t know jack about firebrand gl in gold.

Please Just Stop. You are delusional as ever my dude.

Dantheman.3589 · October 31, 2019

@zoopop.5630 said:
@Dantheman.3589 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@Dantheman.3589 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:@Dantheman.3589 excuse me what?
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:
@Dantheman.3589 said:
@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:By following the example of Ferios I will create a post discussing the different traits, skills and weapons that are over-performing.I will mainly suggest Quality of Life and nerfs in this post, considering we all want to lower the power-creep.
Guardian
It's a slow, bruiser type class with pretty good burst potential coming out of LoS. The sustained damage is incredibly sub-par compared to other roaming damage dealers, such as Holo and Rev.At 11k base health, you're pidgeon-holed into running an Amulet with Vitality on it. Either Mender, Sage or Marauder. I feel like messing with the base health of classes is a bit out of the scope of these upcoming few patches, so I will won't touch that.
Weapons
Greatsword
Overall a great weapon. Has much needed mobility, blinds, situational CC and burst.
#2 Whirling Wrath
- It is extremely hard to hit anyone with this ability unless they are stunned by someone else, or used in conjunction with your healing skill to out-trade classes like Holosmith / Rev / War in a melee scenario. It currently slows you down by 50% during the cast.
Remove the movement slow.
#5 Binding Blade
- Once again, extremely difficult to hit anyone outside of melee range with this. Simply adding a velocity increase would do wonders. I would also give this skill a pulsing reveal for 3 seconds, every 3 seconds while the tether is attached. The reveal will stop pulse if you move 600 units away from the Guardian (Just like the damage does).
Increase the velocity and add a pulsing reveal
Scepter
Never really been used at all in PvP. Saw a damage nerf last patch.
#1 Orb of Wrath
- Once again, slow moving projectile. Functions the same as the old Mesmer staff Phantasm hit (before rework.
Increase velocity, keep damage as is.
Sword
A stable of every Guardian build. Has mobility, blind and projectile hate.
#2 Symbol of Blades
- Saw a 40% damage nerf on the initial hit last patch. It crits for around 1.2k currently on a full on glass build.
Revert the damage nerf in PvP
Hammer
Hammer was in a REALLY good spot about a year ago. The damage was insane (
https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/CooperativeTalentedSardineFunRun?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
). While I can see this being incredibly un-fun to play against and honestly flat out infuriating I wouldn't want this meta back. Even though I severely enjoy running one-shot builds.Hammer right now is in a miserable state. It has no damage, outdated CC and slow projectiles (common theme).
#2 Mighty / Glacial blow
- Considering the immense after-cast and long cast times on hammer, the chill doesn't do much of anything.
Increase range of Glacial Blow to 600, remove chill.
#4 Banish
- Right now, all it is good for is knocking people out of Mercy Signet (more on that later) resses. It also has less damage and a second longer cast time than Overcharged Shot. It cleanses no conditions and it's melee. It also launches people to far to be able to follow up with a Mighty Blow.
Reduce the launch to 600 range (to combo with Glacial Hammer), reduce cast time to .75 seconds (.25 buff).
Axe
Axe is in a really good spot. Maybe a little too good. It has two hard CCs if you trait for it, pulsing Fury and good damage.
#2 Symbol of Vengeance
- The Fury is excessive on this skill. It lets them switch out of Valor while still maintaining great amounts with Sword and Axe symbols.
Remove pulsing Fury and add 2 seconds of Regen per pulse (8 seconds)