Can we be met halfway on quality of life for Chrono? What playstyle/tradeoff do people want? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can we be met halfway on quality of life for Chrono? What playstyle/tradeoff do people want?

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  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. Remove chronophantasma, it simply clutters the screen, makes clone gen even slower and clunkier, and interacts too much with other phantasm traits (doubling their effectiveness) which throws core mesmer balance out of whack.
    2. Either bring back IP or do some other QoL overhaul (like removing clones from chrono entirely), without this chrono is just terribly annoying to play even if you go all-in on clone generation with deceptive evasion, scepter, etc.
    3. Make continuum split not work on elite skills. CS with elites remove the creative and improvisational that should be inherent in CS. Using it for a skillful kite or a burst combo currently doesn't make you feel satisfied, it leaves you feeling that you kitten up and wasted it because you didn't use moa/gravity well.

    // Yanim

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    1. Remove chronophantasma, it simply clutters the screen, makes clone gen even slower and clunkier, and interacts too much with other phantasm traits (doubling their effectiveness) which throws core mesmer balance out of whack.
    2. Either bring back IP or do some other QoL overhaul (like removing clones from chrono entirely), without this chrono is just terribly annoying to play even if you go all-in on clone generation with deceptive evasion, scepter, etc.
    3. Make continuum split not work on elite skills. CS with elites remove the creative and improvisational that should be inherent in CS. Using it for a skillful kite or a burst combo currently doesn't make you feel satisfied, it leaves you feeling that you kitten up and wasted it because you didn't use moa/gravity well.

    1. I rarely get this frustrated but kitten core. Every elite spec has traits that interact with core. People paid for elite specs. If you truly want to balance core, then buff it in ways elite specs can't take advantage. Give it a unique f skill like ancient echo and/or adjust the traits so having three base traitlines is beneficial like s/d thief taking deadly arts/acrobatics/trickery. Nerfing elite specs to balance core is completely unnecessary.
    2. Fine. Good. This suggestion doesn't bring other people down to feel good about yourself.
    3. Lyssa protect me. Can you not think of a solution that doesn't negatively impact people's existing use of the spec? The whole purpose of this topic is to improve QoL, not disrupt it for other people. You will never always be able to use moa/gravity well because they require enemies. Run time warp or mass invis if you hate that feeling.
  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.3527 I can only hope from your post that the balance community is aware of the issue and not posting in this sub forum because we have made or bordered on personal attacks. People have pointed out the issues with Chrono and WvW in your thread. I would also hope the problems outside that, like slow uptime based damage etc are on your mind. And any of the dozens of threads made by this frantic, salty community are useful.

    Whatever you do. Please do not make mesmer feel worse. And though you said you aren't going to nerf for the sake of nerfing. Please think about the professions who need retroactive assistance.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    then you have symbol of vengeance
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbol_of_Vengeance

    fb going to do more dmg no matter what the chrono do, the only benefit of chrono is being ranged

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

    Do you literally need this much help or are you trolling? I can't tell at this point.

    For our purposes let phantasmal berskerer damage be 100.

    • 100 - 25%. = 75
    • 75*2= 150. Imagined burden makes two bersekers.
    • 150*2=300. Each berserker is resummoned with Chronophantasma.
      What is 300/100? Repeat this with any value. Basic math.

    You are autoattacking after you cast. And have numerous utility skills that do damage. Heal fb cannot be autoing more than it already is and has no damaging utilities.

    In no reality will a Heal firebrand do more damage than a diviner power chrono when correctly played. I have wasted my time testing this. You can waste yours confirming how a scepter/sword + GS build intended for damage can dps or stay on whatever mashup you made without reading traits. It has no relevance on this discussion.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

    Do you literally need this much help or are you trolling? I can't tell at this point.

    For our purposes let phantasmal berskerer damage be 100.

    • 100 - 25%. = 75
    • 75*2= 150. Imagined burden makes two bersekers.
    • 150*2=300. Each berserker is resummoned with Chronophantasma.
      What is 300/100? Repeat this with any value. Basic math.

    You are autoattacking after you cast. And have numerous utility skills that do damage. Heal fb cannot be autoing more than it already is and has no damaging utilities.

    In no reality will a Heal firebrand do more damage than a diviner power chrono when correctly played. I have wasted my time testing this. You can waste yours confirming how a scepter/sword + GS build intended for damage can dps or stay on whatever mashup you made without reading traits. It has no relevance on this discussion.

    your math is broken sorry to say LOL, go make a fb and test yourself :) and im not even using a gs on the fb it will do the double of damage

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @SeikeNz.3526

    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

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    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

    Do you literally need this much help or are you trolling? I can't tell at this point.

    For our purposes let phantasmal berskerer damage be 100.

    • 100 - 25%. = 75
    • 75*2= 150. Imagined burden makes two bersekers.
    • 150*2=300. Each berserker is resummoned with Chronophantasma.
      What is 300/100? Repeat this with any value. Basic math.

    You are autoattacking after you cast. And have numerous utility skills that do damage. Heal fb cannot be autoing more than it already is and has no damaging utilities.

    In no reality will a Heal firebrand do more damage than a diviner power chrono when correctly played. I have wasted my time testing this. You can waste yours confirming how a scepter/sword + GS build intended for damage can dps or stay on whatever mashup you made without reading traits. It has no relevance on this discussion.

    your math is broken sorry to say LOL, go make a fb and test yourself :) and im not even using a gs on the fb it will do the double of damage

    I have tested it myself and you are wrong. Which is not surprising given you have misread or ignored imagined burdened, phantasmal haste, improved alacrity, phantasmal swordsman etc. If you want to post screen shots to prove me wrong I welcome it. Go ahead.

    Edit: you also didn't realise (4 * . 75x) =3x. Or whenever x is a number between 8 and 15 it is never 16 because you were looking at PvP and not PvE.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

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    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

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    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

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    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

    Do you literally need this much help or are you trolling? I can't tell at this point.

    For our purposes let phantasmal berskerer damage be 100.

    • 100 - 25%. = 75
    • 75*2= 150. Imagined burden makes two bersekers.
    • 150*2=300. Each berserker is resummoned with Chronophantasma.
      What is 300/100? Repeat this with any value. Basic math.

    You are autoattacking after you cast. And have numerous utility skills that do damage. Heal fb cannot be autoing more than it already is and has no damaging utilities.

    In no reality will a Heal firebrand do more damage than a diviner power chrono when correctly played. I have wasted my time testing this. You can waste yours confirming how a scepter/sword + GS build intended for damage can dps or stay on whatever mashup you made without reading traits. It has no relevance on this discussion.

    your math is broken sorry to say LOL, go make a fb and test yourself :) and im not even using a gs on the fb it will do the double of damage

    I have tested it myself and you are wrong. Which is not surprising given you have misread or ignored imagined burdened, phantasmal haste, improved alacrity, phantasmal swordsman etc.

    If you want to post screen shots to prove me wrong I welcome it. Go ahead.

    you keep saying about your unique build like it's the only one viable on the game, can't you see the point? we are comparing a hb with heal traits AUTO ATK vs chrono best hit LOL with all damage traits, so of course the hb will do more dps because you forgot that fb has more attacks than that while chrono is one trick pony, chrono will do his burst and will be left in the dust in the long run, do you even know what dps means?

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

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    Btw fencer's finesse currently procs on scepter/sword clones. Regardless power quickness chrono is not going to be better than a power quickness firebrand (instead of heal firebrand) in dps if that's what you are going for. There are a number of things having to do with that. Chrono has 4k more health. Danger Time is too situational. "Feel My Wrath" is too good...

    Edit: Chrono can do it's stuff from 900 range. etc.

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    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

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    today i was checking my dps and god my heal brand was doing more dmg than him

    power chrono gs+scpeter/pistol with diviner killed the vet golem at fractal in +-3min
    healbrand axe/shield with harrier killed the vet golem at fractal in +-1s 30min
    condi shortbow ranger with trailblazer killed vet golem at fractal in 30s

    so my healbrand can dps better than a chrono with diviner something is very wrong with chronos, maybe they are supposed to be alacracy+quickness bot?

    That is not a fair comparison. You should have tested with sword/sword + x, where x is either sword/focus, or traited greatsword. YMMV with slow uptime but 3 minutes is too long.

    its a very fair, im traited to gs also perma quickness+ perma 50% alacracy + 25 might, the dmg is low even with all those boons, if i give all those boons to my ranger it would explode the golem, maybe i just made a boon bot

    Scepter/pistol vs axe/shield doesn't prove much.

    it proves because im traited to heal/support on the fb the axe shield is to do some dmg also it's not the best dmg out there
    while chrono gs is supposed to do damage also it's traited to do damage and it's doing lower damage, also the scepcter/pistol is not that bad as you are trying to say, pistol 4 do a very good burst plus the 5 stun when needed, also scepter 3 do another good damage, then i just change back to gs for damage

    Then you are doing something very wrong. Perhaps not shattering? Even with harriers, a chono with sword/shield + MW will not be twice as long.

    yeah im shattering how im supposed to have perma quickness and alacracy?

    Then I have no idea how it is taking you twice as long. Are you not running full berserker on the Chrono?

    chrono is on diviner
    fb is on harrier with mix of giver

    Try with full berserkers with assassins legs and trinkets. You don't need boon duration or TW.

    well that's only 22% increase of crit damage, but you don't have 25might uptime + perma quickness and perma alacracy, i don't think 22% of crit damage can overdps it

    Except you do have perma aoe quickness. And 25 might uptime and perma alacrity would come from your renegade regardless of whether you were a firebrand or mesmer. Adjust the console.

    Edit: It is not 50% less dps than heal firebrand. You would have to be comparing it vs a quickness firebrand to get that kind of difference.

    well you can't compare in a party situation, you have to compare the class alone and what it can do alone, of course in a perfect party your assassin + zerk chrono will do more dmg than a diviner chrno but the game is more than only raids, theres wvw, theres fractal, theres open world, theres pvp and most of the time chrono is alone without the perfect raid/party, also even with the gears that you said to me my healfb would do more dmg, it does both condi and power damage with fast hits because of the perma 25 might + perma quickness , while chrno has some spike burst dmg. after shatter and the phantasm he is useless.

    • In fractal/raids you aren't alone and shouldn't be playing with people who don't want to help the team.
    • In WvW and PvP, firebrand can't run harriers without dying (11k heath) while chrono can run diviner. Although the inherent limitations of illusions and the lack of illusionary persona can make things miserable, the damage is still better.
    • In solo open world you have more health and have illusions to tank for you.

    i like chrono play style way more than any class but it's a sad truth even a healfb has more dmg than it and stop saying about the scepter/pistol it's a secondary weapon << the main is gs also diviner is not that bad as you keep implying without a perfect party a berserker will do way less dmg

    If you must have 25 might, perma quickness/alacrity, and scepter/pistol +greatsword on diviner. Then go domination 2/2/1, illusion 1/2/1, and chronomancer 2/3/3 with signet heal, phantasmal disenchanter, mantra of pain, well of calamity/mirror images, and gravity well. It definitely does more damage than a harrier heal firebrand.

    It sounds like you are going seize the moment over chronophantasma, but you don't need aoe quickness from shatter or time warp if you are alone. Scepter is okay, I have no idea why you have a pistol. Untraited it does less damage than a sword and can be summoned at the same range.

    perfect party are only for raids, even fractals you don't have it most of the times.

    Completely wrong unless you are intentionally avoiding the LFG system. Maybe if you are searching for a Tier1 group?

    my hb is on harrier+giver so it can survive alot on wvw, on pvp i can't do it Though because i can't mix.

    Then it does even less damage than a diviner power chrono.

    you don't have illusions when you shatter all the time

    Phantasms are illusions. And you cannot shatter a phantasm until chronophantasma is finished. They aggro enemies and body block. If they aren't enough you can slot in phantasmal defender, which aoe taunts for 6 seconds with chronophantasma. CS and signet heal get that to 18 seconds.

    pistol phantasm does mora damage than sword phantasm, sword is good in some situations when you need more blocks, but i use pistol more for cc when i need.

    It does not. The sword strike is the first hit. It then performs a flurry that doesn't have its damage on the tooltip. Pistol is behind sword and focus in power damage.

    i have tried alot of builds no matter what i build i take my hb does more DPS,

    if i want more boons/survivability i go chaos line yeah i know its better for condi but you can have a good use of it, like for manipulation cd with perma alacracy i can use mirror heal every 6s, then with shatter i have might, vigor, fury, stability and resistance since im on diviner, it's can be very good in some situations, yeah i lose damage for it.

    now on illusion with the new nerf of lost time i can have some use for it, i can use illusion 2/2/1 with this i can give quick to my phantasm and for me then i use lost time for more alacracy up time, since im on diviner the boons are enought and i can remove seize the moment.

    No. No. No. Do not go Chaos and complain about lack of power damage. And do not go Lost Time. With diviner you can get perma alacrity through shatter alone even if you have the reduced duration from improved alacrity.

    now if i use both illusion and domination the damage goes up a bit since it's lower the cd even more but still not enough, phantasm does more damage but that's it, you gain spike damage potential but the dps still lower than a hb, then i have to pick either seize the moment or chrnophantasma, but if i pick chronophantasma i lose quick uptime so my dps will be lower because im slower, then chrnophantasma make you shatter less because you need to wait them respawm 2 times to get a clone, with seize the moment i gain a better constant dps and i can shatter forever because i don't have to wait the phantasm respawm.

    so no matter what build i take the dps is always close and lower than a hb, chrono is dead and nerfed to hell.

    I took the time to test it myself. It is not. You are either doing rotations wrong. Have the wrong build. Or have the wrong gear. You will not lose quickness uptime with the trait setup I gave you because chronophantasma procs phantasmal haste twice. With traited greatsword, pistol/sword phantasm, signet heal, and CS you can easily perma quickness.

    You have scepter AA/2, GS 2, and all your phantasms eventually becoming clones. You will be able to put all of you shatters on cooldown, even with improved alacrity.

    Power Chrono struggles when you have no slow uptime. It does not struggle as much as you are describing.

    This topic is geared towards dealing with the problem of slow and the lack illusionary persona. Not to make Chrono OP.

    do you wanna know why harrier fb with heal traits does more damage than chrono? because axe auto attacks "3" does the same damage of phantasmal berserker, axe symbol does more damage than phantsmal berserker with half of the cooldown, plus burn and bleeding damage, so hb have a higher dps even if you take chronophantasma to double the damage you can't maintain the dps of a auto attack, then you have tome of justice do even more damage, tome 4 can hit more than phatasmal berserker without counting the 5 stacks of burns, with 25 might+quickness that 5 stacks of burn does more damage than phantasmal berserker with chronophantsma, it's sad but it's the truth.

    Gs 4 has a 15 second cooldown untraited and with no alacrity. With imagined burden and improved alacrity you can lower that to 8. Axe 2 cooldown is also 8. It is never half the cooldown. Similar problems occurred in your phantasmal berserker math since you forgot traited it does 1.5 more damage. You also forgot mesmer can also auto attack.

    Maybe test it on a golem and take screenshots?

    well im talking about phantasmal berserker because it's supposed to be the big hit of mesmer right,
    i was trying to show at build editor but the for some reason it show way less damage to phantasmal than in game.
    but you can do the math

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_(firebrand) the full combo proc every 2,45, with quickness every 1,22
    Damage (2x): 880 (2.4)
    Burning (2s): 524 Damage

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker best case like you said every 8s
    Damage (4x): 1,020 (0.92)
    Greatsword damage: 161 (0.4)

    the problem here is the coeficient, for phantasmal berserker its almost the half of the auto atk of axe, phantasmal start with higher damage but after you put some power on the fb it's surpass phantasmal berserker, it's like doing a phantasmal berserker every 1,22s

    Can you do the math? What is (1,020 (.092)) x 3) + 164 (0.4)? If your answer is less than searing slash the answer is no.

    The auto attack happening faster with quickness is meaningless since the mesmer is also auto attacking with quickness.

    what kind of math is that? LOL you can't put x3 there,
    if you put it, you get less 25% and to be fair it's less 10% since you considering probably empowered illusions, then you forget that chronophantasma will daze them for 1,5sec and that's like another auto atk from fb so you have to put x2 on the fb auto atk, then you have to consider 5 stacks of burning damage with 1000 condi damage

    Do you literally need this much help or are you trolling? I can't tell at this point.

    For our purposes let phantasmal berskerer damage be 100.

    • 100 - 25%. = 75
    • 75*2= 150. Imagined burden makes two bersekers.
    • 150*2=300. Each berserker is resummoned with Chronophantasma.
      What is 300/100? Repeat this with any value. Basic math.

    You are autoattacking after you cast. And have numerous utility skills that do damage. Heal fb cannot be autoing more than it already is and has no damaging utilities.

    In no reality will a Heal firebrand do more damage than a diviner power chrono when correctly played. I have wasted my time testing this. You can waste yours confirming how a scepter/sword + GS build intended for damage can dps or stay on whatever mashup you made without reading traits. It has no relevance on this discussion.

    your math is broken sorry to say LOL, go make a fb and test yourself :) and im not even using a gs on the fb it will do the double of damage

    I have tested it myself and you are wrong. Which is not surprising given you have misread or ignored imagined burdened, phantasmal haste, improved alacrity, phantasmal swordsman etc.

    If you want to post screen shots to prove me wrong I welcome it. Go ahead.

    you keep saying about your unique build like it's the only one viable on the game, can't you see the point? we are comparing a hb with heal traits AUTO ATK vs chrono best hit LOL with all damage traits, so of course the hb will do more dps because you forgot that fb has more attacks than that while chrono is one trick pony, chrono will do his burst and will be left in the dust in the long run, do you even know what dps means?

    We aren't comparing chrono's best. I gave you a build because you are deciding to yolo on diviner instead of playing sw/sw +sw/f zerker assassin mix. Because you also can't do the math on that either.

    Edit: Dps chrono benches 33.7k when going improved alacrity over DT. Dps firebrand benches 33.1k when it has no allies to give ashes to. There is no way a solo heal firebrand is ever going to beat a dps chrono unless you are intentionally nerfing yourself.

  • @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Edit: Dps chrono benches 33.7k when going improved alacrity over DT. Dps firebrand benches 33.1k when it has no allies to give ashes to. There is no way a solo heal firebrand is ever going to beat a dps chrono unless you are intentionally nerfing yourself.

    Do you have an actual bench for this (the IA pchrono)? IMO, it seems a bit off and the number looks suspiciously the same as a bench done in Nov 2018... (before a fair amount of nerfs happened btw)

    The absolute highest bench I believed it would ever reach atm would be 30-31k, but probably realistically hover around 30k or less.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2019

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Edit: Dps chrono benches 33.7k when going improved alacrity over DT. Dps firebrand benches 33.1k when it has no allies to give ashes to. There is no way a solo heal firebrand is ever going to beat a dps chrono unless you are intentionally nerfing yourself.

    Do you have an actual bench for this (the IA pchrono)? IMO, it seems a bit off and the number looks suspiciously the same as a bench done in Nov 2018... (before a fair amount of nerfs happened btw)

    The absolute highest bench I believed it would ever reach atm would be 30-31k, but probably realistically hover around 30k or less.

    No. I only tested his weird solo build concept vs heal firebrand. If IA over DT is benching 30k now that doesn't change anything. The difference between dps firebrand without allies and heal firebrand is more than 3k

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2019

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    1. Remove chronophantasma, it simply clutters the screen, makes clone gen even slower and clunkier, and interacts too much with other phantasm traits (doubling their effectiveness) which throws core mesmer balance out of whack.
    2. Either bring back IP or do some other QoL overhaul (like removing clones from chrono entirely), without this chrono is just terribly annoying to play even if you go all-in on clone generation with deceptive evasion, scepter, etc.
    3. Make continuum split not work on elite skills. CS with elites remove the creative and improvisational that should be inherent in CS. Using it for a skillful kite or a burst combo currently doesn't make you feel satisfied, it leaves you feeling that you kitten up and wasted it because you didn't use moa/gravity well.

    1. I rarely get this frustrated but kitten core. Every elite spec has traits that interact with core. People paid for elite specs. If you truly want to balance core, then buff it in ways elite specs can't take advantage. Give it a unique f skill like ancient echo and/or adjust the traits so having three base traitlines is beneficial like s/d thief taking deadly arts/acrobatics/trickery. Nerfing elite specs to balance core is completely unnecessary.

    This makes no sense because:
    a) the problem is that chronophntasma doubles the effectiveness of traits like phantasmal force which is kitten and should never happen because it necessecitates those traits being completely useless without chronophantasma, which should be obvious.
    b) Core is currently better than chrono, afaik misha played it in AT as well.

    1. Fine. Good. This suggestion doesn't bring other people down to feel good about yourself.

    "Bring down other people" what on earth. You identify so strongly with a trait (chronophantasma) in a game that me making a balance suggestion is "bringing you down as a person"'. Fantastic.

    1. Lyssa protect me. Can you not think of a solution that doesn't negatively impact people's existing use of the spec?

    All balance changes have the potential to negatively impact people, such is the nature of change.

    The whole purpose of this topic is to improve QoL, not disrupt it for other people. You will never always be able to use moa/gravity well because they require enemies. Run time warp or mass invis if you hate that feeling.

    You completely missed my point, I don't hate that I need to hit my elite skill, that is nonsense, I dislike the fact that you are incredibly locked in how you use f5 due to the fact that using it in conjunction with gravwell/moa is always the correct option. When chrono was announced I remember people talking about all the kites and such that would be possible but it quickly devolved into a class mechanic of "double your elite skill every 90 seconds!", it would simply be more interesting to remove the elite synergy and perhaps lower the CD as compensation. Though this 3rd point of mine is definitely the least important of the three.

    // Yanim

  • @Quadox.7834 said:
    1. Remove chronophantasma, it simply clutters the screen, makes clone gen even slower and clunkier, and interacts too much with other phantasm traits (doubling their effectiveness) which throws core mesmer balance out of whack.

    This makes no sense because:
    a) the problem is that chronophntasma doubles the effectiveness of traits like phantasmal force which is kitten and should never happen because it necessecitates those traits being completely useless without chronophantasma, which should be obvious.

    I know a comment made with a PvP bias when I see one, and I generally don’t respond to them for obvious reasons, but when you bold the words, ‘remove Chronophantasma’ without adding additional details like ‘PvP-only’ or ‘compensate by adding this’, a large amount of people are not going to agree unless you hit all the right buttons. Which you haven’t yet.

    In your initial post and your reply, you stated, ‘the problem is that chronophantasma doubles the effectiveness of traits’. If this is the main problem, then let me suggest an alternative that isn’t as destructive as completely axing the whole thing:

    Related traits proc on successful phantasm skill use, NOT on phantasm creation.

    PvErs like me might actually be able to agree with this. Also, Phantasmal Force is a horrible example as the second phantasm doesn’t even do anything to make the trait any more effective than if used on core (it might actually be potentially weaker w/ chronophantasma).

    Another point you raised up is screen clutter. When fellow mesmer players are complaining that the 50% dmg reduction means you can largely ignore the second phantasm, ‘clutter’ isn’t really a strong reason to delete the whole trait from the entire game. However, if you do really need to address this point, maybe instead allow the opponent to determine whether the second phantasm is produced - e.g. the second phantasm is produced only if the original one successfully lands a hit on the target (note how this suggestion has more of an effect in PvP compared to PvE).

    Third point, it slow clone generation. Seeing how this a minus for the chrono, this completely fails to be a viable reason to remove the trait, when there’s still the choice of not taking the trait at all. This was why people who were paying attention were reacting to the Lost Time change not so long ago. Turns out it was a trait that they shouldn’t really have touched without considering the consequences.

    Apart from Chronophantasma, all the other points are fine as they currently stand.

    pChrono (main), cWeaver and pReaper. An asura who likes snowflakes.

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    I want the 1 illusion requirement to be gone. Changed the way you have to play the class completely after 4 years of playing it without the requirement and like I've said before, it nerfs x 100 everything.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GM trait on wells : 10 targets/allies, concentration bonus.
    Pls let us use shatter skills without clone recquirement ... because otherwise the only '""""viable"""" builds in pvp/wvw are those with clone spam traits.
    Revert change of /merge Lost time + Delayed Reaction

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    GM trait on wells : 10 targets/allies, concentration bonus.
    Pls let us use shatter skills without clone recquirement ... because otherwise the only '""""viable"""" builds in pvp/wvw are those with clone spam traits.
    Revert change of /merge Lost time + Delayed Reaction

    there is no existing variation of chronomancer, no matter how hard you try, that is viable.
    if you roll a die while taking random warrior traits and weapons, this warrior will be more viable then the best chronomancer you can come up with in pvp.