Potential Future Balance Changes - WvW - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes - WvW

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  • I'm going to get clowned so hard for this, but...

    I think total health should see a proportional increase across the board for all classes I'd love to see an end to the one-push, one-shot, condi-one-tick metas by any means necessary...even total damage reduction to all classes, all skills.
    Condi damage should see the nerf, which would affect necro corruption. Don't reduce corruption application availability People who suck at boon management will always complain.
    Regeneration should become a stackable boon, raising intensity. It could counter issues with the above point.
    Stability should get another group-wide availability comparable to guardian in at least 1 other class Also should counter corruption destruction.
    I think the reduction from 10 to 5 is acceptable, but Small changes, slow and steady.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    vanila necro is super strong right now.

    =) <3 its love.

    sould blood curses. loving it.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

    Hate to be "that guy", bud, but if you think reaper is even remotely on par with other classes such as holo, spellbreaker/warr, mirage/mesmer, post a video of roaming and tell us how it went.

  • UnDeadFun.5824UnDeadFun.5824 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't mind the change as long as you adjust the boon spam. Also, **Please **revert the PvE nerf while you're at it.

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

    Hate to be "that guy", bud, but if you think reaper is even remotely on par with other classes such as holo, spellbreaker/warr, mirage/mesmer, post a video of roaming and tell us how it went.

    I mean we cant disagree with that .

    I Just Stated some buffs necro recieved and yes IT cant compete with those 3 but so cant like most elite specs?

    So tell me whats your point

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

    Hate to be "that guy", bud, but if you think reaper is even remotely on par with other classes such as holo, spellbreaker/warr, mirage/mesmer, post a video of roaming and tell us how it went.

    I mean we cant disagree with that .

    I Just Stated some buffs necro recieved and yes IT cant compete with those 3 but so cant like most elite specs?

    So tell me whats your point

    "necro has gotten stronger" doesnt mean it is in a good spot. Even death magic rework is... Dunno, dubious at best, it still doesnt justify a spot instead of soulreap or spite. Sure, some pro pvpers can use it well, but spvp isnt wvw roaming. Even in pve, reaper is below most dps classes. I am just saying necro-reaper could use more tuning, slight buffs. Scourge is getting the chronomancer treatment right now.

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have time to iterate.

    "still have time to iterate" implies that at some point changes will not be possible. This is not what you meant, right?

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

    Hate to be "that guy", bud, but if you think reaper is even remotely on par with other classes such as holo, spellbreaker/warr, mirage/mesmer, post a video of roaming and tell us how it went.

    I mean we cant disagree with that .

    I Just Stated some buffs necro recieved and yes IT cant compete with those 3 but so cant like most elite specs?

    So tell me whats your point

    "necro has gotten stronger" doesnt mean it is in a good spot. Even death magic rework is... Dunno, dubious at best, it still doesnt justify a spot instead of soulreap or spite. Sure, some pro pvpers can use it well, but spvp isnt wvw roaming. Even in pve, reaper is below most dps classes. I am just saying necro-reaper could use more tuning, slight buffs. Scourge is getting the chronomancer treatment right now.

    Or. Every other class could get nerfed to reapers level. That strikes me as much more preferable. It is the route PvP is leaning towards, and is the route that stops powercreep. It is a really annoying trend that people see others as stronger and want to be brought to that level rather than see others brought down to theirs. Reaper is in a great spot and does almost exactly what it is suppose to thematically do and has clear weaknesses and clear strengths.

  • Things on necro elites that need review are:

    Cast times too long and easy to inturrupt, anything over 1/2 for that class is too much. Consume condis heal/ reaper elite chill and flesh wurm should be instant to give much need OH SH... button.

    Utilities should be available in shroud too since ever

    These would be a great start.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @God.2708 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Great. But what does necro get back for these insane nerfs?

    Nothing?

    Wheres the guardian nerfs?

    • way to many boons and support + way to much dmg from burn guards

    Do they get deleted as well?

    Also where's necro buffs for pve?
    Cause that will make necro not worth playing in any gamemode

    I think Reaper and vanilla necro got enough feathers recently lol

    You mean those feathers that should have been given two years ago? Great.
    So necro gets what it needs right now, in two years from now in the future, when everyone else got even better things?

    Before the core shroud patch it looked more like a plugged chicken, but 3 feathers more cant make that chicken fly.
    And a chicken looks like a bum compared to a swan that looks pretty majestic

    Lol for what ive seen, since pof release this what happened
    They Toned down chillomancer to balanced level
    They kitten quickness to reaper form
    About 33% damage buff to reaper
    Degenerating health faster in Reaper form
    Add mobility to reaper, besides wurm port
    ^ and that's Just Reaper, its normal for me to get and 6k Auto-attack in guard celestial Gear

    That's the feathers i talk about, and yes some traits got buffs and some got nerved, but i dont main necro. And for what ive seen necro Just Gotten stronger

    Its always been the class to be 'able' to run all specialisations and be viable. Maybe IT ain't now...but i guess join the club of...euhm all other professions i guess?

    Hate to be "that guy", bud, but if you think reaper is even remotely on par with other classes such as holo, spellbreaker/warr, mirage/mesmer, post a video of roaming and tell us how it went.

    I mean we cant disagree with that .

    I Just Stated some buffs necro recieved and yes IT cant compete with those 3 but so cant like most elite specs?

    So tell me whats your point

    "necro has gotten stronger" doesnt mean it is in a good spot. Even death magic rework is... Dunno, dubious at best, it still doesnt justify a spot instead of soulreap or spite. Sure, some pro pvpers can use it well, but spvp isnt wvw roaming. Even in pve, reaper is below most dps classes. I am just saying necro-reaper could use more tuning, slight buffs. Scourge is getting the chronomancer treatment right now.

    Or. Every other class could get nerfed to reapers level. That strikes me as much more preferable. It is the route PvP is leaning towards, and is the route that stops powercreep. It is a really annoying trend that people see others as stronger and want to be brought to that level rather than see others brought down to theirs. Reaper is in a great spot and does almost exactly what it is suppose to thematically do and has clear weaknesses and clear strengths.

    Good luck with trying to nerf mirage, holo, spellbreaker, thief, to name a few.

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    There is such a huge amount of things which need to be looked at .. in general some classe got massive dmg reduction on the one side / insane dmg output AND mobility as hell on the other ... this needs to be fixed and furthermore the player balance is a complete mess .. alliances won´t make it live until at least 3. quarter 2020 i guess but till there they could at least check why some servers are set "full" but don´t have even half of the coverage other servers do .. this would be an easy thing to do but isn´t done .. says all for me ..

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @primatos.5413 said:
    There is such a huge amount of things which need to be looked at .. in general some classe got massive dmg reduction on the one side / insane dmg output AND mobility as hell on the other ... this needs to be fixed and furthermore the player balance is a complete mess ..

    alliances won´t make it live until at least 3. quarter 2020

    Aren’t you optimistic.... I am not sure it’s still in development.

    i guess but till there they could at least check why some servers are set "full" but don´t have even half of the coverage other servers do .. this would be an easy thing to do but isn´t done .. says all for me ..

    The other ‘servers’ have more coverage at some times because of their links.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Reaper is atm only good in a Zerg WHEN the player knows how to play it and the Zerg has enough scourges. Good for a melee push.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are some myths about the scourge that people are spreading. "The scourge has good damage." This is false. The scourge's damage is fairly low in comparison to most other classes. Its crowd control is decent enough but it's not a spec that can honestly hold it's own by itself. It needs a babysitter. "Barrier on scourge is too strong." Barrier is scaled fairly low on scourge. It can be decent but the application is more bursty than powerful when used solo. "Boon strip is too strong" Again it isn't. Their boon strip was too strong at one point. I isn't any longer. They're hard pressed now to fight the boon meta.

    So where do these myths come from? Zergs. Much of the normal underwhelming aspects of scourge can be negated when stacking their abilities with redundancy and their extremely high target cap. Their mediocre barrier suddenly gets maxed on large groups with how many scourges there are. Their mediocre boon corruption suddenly gets strong with their high number of targets and their mediocre damage doesn't matter so much when you have a snowball effect of control and aoe pressure.

    The issue with scourge is and has always been Sand Savant. Nothing else needed to be touched. Yet anet went and did it anyway. Sand Savant should have been replaced by a dedicated support trait. Not the massive bomb trait it has always been. Scourge has lost so much of its viability to this trait and it's become more and more linear as a spec because of it. The necromancer community has been saying this for 2 years now and our spec is likely to be dead weight by the end of this. And for some of us that's a dead class since reaper doesn't appeal to many of us and core necromancer is still laughable.

    I and many others keep fighting for the necromancer and keep being proven right. Yet we are mostly ignored. Its exhausting. I want to play what I enjoy and it seems all I get is punished for enjoying it.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    Instead of releasing a half-tested patch that buffs Scourge in WvW and nerfs it in PvE, can Arenanet please set up a beta server for players to copy their accounts into over a weekend of play?

    There are plenty of customers whose feedback I agree with but I cannot understand why theirs, and my, comments are perpetually ignored in favor of an original idea developed in a clique at Arenanet. Granted there are many less professional people complaining on the forums but there are also those with thousands of hours of experience with various, if not all, professions; some of whom are both older than probably all Arenanet employees and are responsible for significant products, support and development.

    I try to keep a positive attitude and open mind when it comes to the current game and the changes as they are implemented but my gagues of success include not having to revisit the same problems as the previous changes. Re-rebalancing seems to occur more frequently than I believe is reasonable.

    Balance the professions as if your jobs are on the line, please. Tell us what your plans are. In fact, you might as well post details of your development plans and request feedback before even starting work on them. Your internal processes are opaque. Make them a lot less so. (If a team says they plan to do X, despite negative feedback, that should be grounds for dismissal if it does not work out as expected and causes another change request.)

    For all balance changes, communicate to your customers these specifics:
    1. What is the problem. Give details of how significant the problem is and how it affects the customer or your server performance.
    2. What the root cause of the problem is. Give evidence of the root cause along with the severity and impact.
    3. What is your proposed solution. Include a strict definition of the scope of change
    4. Explain how you verified the problem is corrected and how the change was verified to not introduce any new problems by analysis or testing.
    5. Request customer approval at the risk that any, or all, of the previous steps may generate requests for more detail and questions which must be answered satisfactorily before approval is given.

  • Nexxus.5347Nexxus.5347 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    Anet changes the Scourge Elite to no longer hit 5 targets Melee and range but only hit range or melee. BUT you can still hit 10 targets. Then a month later determine 10 targets is to much and now you can only hit 5 targets melee or range. The Scourge is AOE damage Class. Anet has nerf'd it out of WvW. If your new to GW2. Leave. Run. Dont look back.

    Sand Savant - no longer use.
    Devouring Darkness - no longer use.

  • Hi. For the past 2 years they have made the same mistake, they took out a very complete elite specialization to go as a group, and instead of doing a complete redesign only of this, they were only destroying their specializations and weapons, leaving each time more to the most destroyed profession. The necro is a profession that lacks stability (except the reaper and are short), blessings, mobility of weapons, invisibilities, dark offensive steps, invulnerabilities, blockages, projectile reflections, evasions, with weapons skills from 3/4 to 1 1/4 sec application, against, for example, thief weapon skills that are instantaneous or 1/4 sec. He only had damage, critical corruption damage and corruption damage, in which critical damage has been removed in his specializations, and corruption damage has been reduced in quantity.
      In conclusion, if they are going to change something that is only in the scourge elite specialization, which currently only serves to walk in zerg since it is useless both in roaming and in other game modes, since they have left it obsolete, and by please not play skills like "Devouring Darkness" that are among the few tools left to the necro core.

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd like to see an internal cooldown on Sand Shade skills, most Scourges are just dropping their shade and spamming every button. Or require a Sand Shade to be placed to use the skills - similar to Chronos requiring at least one clone to use their shatter skills.

    An internal cooldown on the skills - even if just 1 second will mean they will have to prioritise which skills they are using instead of mindlessly spamming, or have to place their shades better to be effective.

  • Hello everyone, im an old veteran player of WwW...
    i appreciate your effort but u need a stable team that play this vision of the game for understand what this game mode need and what u need to go for balance every class in pvp and wvw. Ofcourse, i think u already know, this game was "a bit better balanced" before HoT.
    but never mind now, i want try to help us..

    Necro: Im ok with u...Sand Savant and Devouring Darkness need a nerf, reduce the cap from 10 to 5 and reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 its ok...
    also i will try to bring necro to other direction, no more many skills with boons corruption but bring it to more barrier focused.
    Reaper damage focused and Scourge barrier focused...at the end this class will stay always in meta.

    War: Bring war to boons removal, specially on hammer f1 (stability should be 1th boon removed)...i appreciate ur last work on tactics line, bring it on condi cleanse.
    Nerf a bit the output damage that this class make (Arcing Slice and Kill Shot make too much damage especially if u using berserker mode) im ok with eviscerate.
    Buff the damage of Earthshaker like Rupturing Smash.

    Engi: I don't play it often...but seems its a good class...at the moment it has a good condi cleanse and a good healing support.

    Revenant: It is a good Dps class and it should be also a good resistence buffer imo..bring it to be more focused on resistence buff while in Demon Stance (Legendary Dwarf has already a good damage reduction skills).

    Gurd: Always in meta. It is good as it is.

    Ele: It is good as it is. Just buff a bit some skill...more heal done to ally will be appreciate (like Healing Rain).

    Mesmer: I don't play it often but im sure that mesmer need buff on wells...also i think it need be more alacrity based while using chronomancer spec..

    Thief: its ok...this is my main.

    Ranger: I don't play it often...maybe we should try to bring rangers in meta with their spirits or with some other thing (spirits must follow rangers not be like they are at the moment)...

    Btw, i think that every class need a nerf, there is too much damage and too much damage reduction in wvw a this moment...also many other thing should be done in wvw...we need the old server pride, we need restructuring names of the servers, we need less server, we no need linking system anymore, we no need eotm, we need alpine restyling, we need old system of upgrade, we need.....many thing......but this could be a begin

    PS. btw sorry for my bad english, it isn't my primary language :)

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

  • Deadly Ambition: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to apply more poison than expected.
    is this pvp or wvw and pvp ?

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

    I disagree. Anyone who thinks support is the issue in WvW doesn't understand how large scale fights work.
    Edit: Or what the community wants from large scale fights.

  • @God.2708 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

    I disagree. Anyone who thinks support is the issue in WvW doesn't understand how large scale fights work.
    Edit: Or what the community wants from large scale fights.

    The better the support classes( especially protection, stability, cleanses and clean healing) the more risk dps classes can take

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

    I disagree. Anyone who thinks support is the issue in WvW doesn't understand how large scale fights work.
    Edit: Or what the community wants from large scale fights.

    The better the support classes( especially protection, stability, cleanses and clean healing) the more risk dps classes can take

    Which is why, in a meta where there were no dedicated healers at all, necros all ran around in full soldiers and not full berserkers, right?

    I will re-iterate my above statement. People who think support is the issue do not understand how large scale fights work.

  • allshallperish.4620allshallperish.4620 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @kitten.7492 said:
    The general problem of WvW is, that it's not simply 50v50, blob vs. blob fights, sieging keeps etc..
    There are three mayor types of gameplay, which are performed in World vs. World (as far as I am aware ^^)

    • Blob fights (25 - 70 ppl), yes i regard a zerg of 25 ppl as a mayor group of players
    • GvG (15 ppl), since there is no seperate area of the game, Guilds can fight each other
    • Roaming/Small scale (up to 10 ppl) , since there is more builddiversity regarding statlines etc.

    These three areas should always kept in mind when balancing wvw, since it can destroy the other categories if wvw-balance is just centered around one of them (which is happening right now, if we look at the canges regarding the scepter)

    So I have a complete opposite approach for the issue regarding Necromancers, namely this part:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    • Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only

    So instead of keeping on nerfing the Skill, rendering it useless for GvG and Small Scale, since you are not massing necromancers in these styles since you are limited regarding the number of players.

    My consideration: Put the ammount back up to 3 corrupts, but instead of limiting the casting end, limit the recieving end.
    For example put a debuff on players struck by the skill, which lasts 10 secounds and is stackable up to 3 times, preventing the player from taking further corrupts as long as the debuff persist (kinda similar to the way the new Deathmagic mechanic works).

    That way you can stop things from being broken if stacked infinite times while on the other hand not hurting players that like to play world vs world in a amaller scale like GvG or Roaming/Small Scale.

    The debuff idea is nice, keeping in mind wvw consists of blob fights , medium sized gvg fights and small scale. Therfore changes should be balanced around all of these very different scenarios. Say If a player gets hit by 20 scepter 3's, only 3 will corrupt him =9 boons gone then the debuff appears for 10s, the skill still corrupts aoe but again only cap 3 times per player in the space of 10's. This is strictly talking about corrupts not the dmg part of the skill. good idea worth testing, but then people will probably just run axe lol

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.3527

    I certainly think you and the team should consider addressing some boon application at the same time as reducing the corruptions otherwise you will see a drastic shift from scourge is the problem to firebrand/holo/scrapper is the problem.

    One thing I personally think should not be done in any competitive modes is hitting 1 area and not the other at least to some extent at the same time.
    The last thing we need to see is scourge getting toned down even more and then just being left like that "its fine" because the complaints stopped even more so if thats because people just stop playing scourge because its not longer effective enough.

    Im not saying scourge shouldn't be reduced im simply saying that the choice to reduce it without also addressing boon splatter which has yet to receive a single culling since ever that i can recall could lead to an even bigger issue. Scourge takes a massive nose dive in the process for several months or people stop playing it all together because it feels too ineffective.

    All teams should possibly consider a scourge rework in all game modes pve included if its going to keep getting these kind of pass overs on a mechanic thats proving to be too difficult to balance in terms of effectiveness.

    Scourge is indeed a problem in big numbered fights or in the instances of multiple scourges. But i think this only pushes people to drop scourge entirely or simply bring even more scourges than before. Both of which are not good imo.

    As i said in a previous statement i hated the idea of necromancer's main unique mechanic feature being used as what almost feels like a pure balance tool for 8 other professions. Boon converts went from being a unique mechanic and strategy defensive combat tool of the necromancer to being a almost a pure boon balance tool for every other profession.
    The reduction of that tool without the reduction of the thing its meant to combat at the same time or before hand seems backwards to me. This is going to up effectiveness and dps for a lot of builds passively even more which is the opposite of what i thought was suppose to be happening in the future for both wvw and pvp.

  • Kicast.1459Kicast.1459 Member ✭✭✭

    Why did we have to wait for so long for such obvious adjustments(because this is just adjustment here)
    2 years almost and this was not done...omg...
    One could argue that it is better late than never... but Jesus.... this is very late.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @God.2708 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

    I disagree. Anyone who thinks support is the issue in WvW doesn't understand how large scale fights work.
    Edit: Or what the community wants from large scale fights.

    I am well aware that dps classes dictate the meta to a large degree. That doesnt mean that some aspects of the support classes arent broken, however.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @God.2708 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    It is saddening to see people being so ignorant about wvw blobscourge. That only shows that they dont play that class, they play it horrible wrong, or they dont know how to counter it. I mean, there is a comment here about people switching to gm trait "demonic lore" after the incoming nerfs. A trait that gives burn on torment every 3s on a single target. Amazing trait with powerstats. Synergizes well. Yeah.

    People cry about scourge condi dmg, which is pretty much nonexistent cause blobscourges run powerstats. Cleanses are out of this world, mass cleanses. Boonconversion is where most condies come from, but people choose to ignore this, as well. There is a reason the meta has shifted from full trailblazer to power. If you still run full trailblazer in blobs, well...

    Scourge needs support to survive. Otherwise, it is pure trash. Dies to a single rapidfire, a CoR plus 2 auto attacks. Barrier? It is used to sustain firebrands on pushes, so they can outsustain the enemy for scourges to be able to corrupt en masse, and for dps classes to deliver their spike. "but powerscourge has huge dmg!". No, it doesnt. A shroudspike is what, 1-2 times hit for 1.5-2.5k? (if you stay in that big Red pulsing AoE for more, farming flax may be ideal for you instead of wvw). "but so many scourges do much more dmg!" Welcome to the game, where stacking classes - any classes--with glass cannon stats can do mass damage. Support Firebrand can sustain a family of 8 alone. Spellbreaker is stronger than a german panzer and can solo push into enemy blobs. Scrapper has decent solo sustain. Revs as well. No other class needs support as much as scourge does, to be able to do what it is supposed to do. People call scourge a sitting duck for a reason.

    And this comes down to the actual role of the scourge. Boonrips and booncorrupts. The more targets the merrier, the more boons removed the better. The number of targets nerf was justified, 10 targets is a tad too much. But nerfing the boonremoval even more, that shows (in my opinion, anyway) that people are ignorant. Stand your ground was buffed and affects 10 targets. Boon output is absurd. Firebrands, scrappers, healeles, revs dish out more boons than ever. Scourge has seen nerfs with unending corruption being changed to harbringer shroud (that noone uses, ever), devouring darkness was already nerfed (will get nerfed harder), a whole trait line (curses) that goes well with condi builds was taken only cause of corrupts. Maybe builds will change to spite soulreap again, who knows. Condi isnt coming back anyway, hasnt been even remotely reliable for a long time.

    Anyway, in conclusion, in my opinion they should just have nerfed big shade target number. Boon spam should be looked into first. The elephant (it is more like a prehistoric mammoth, actually) in the room is firebrand. Thanks for your time, reading my rant.

    I disagree. Anyone who thinks support is the issue in WvW doesn't understand how large scale fights work.
    Edit: Or what the community wants from large scale fights.

    The better the support classes( especially protection, stability, cleanses and clean healing) the more risk dps classes can take

    Which is why, in a meta where there were no dedicated healers at all, necros all ran around in full soldiers and not full berserkers, right?

    I will re-iterate my above statement. People who think support is the issue do not understand how large scale fights work.

    I never Stated support is the issue, ive Stated its An element

    But whatever dude

    Not gonna argue that ego. Have a Nice day

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If scourge's aoe was reduced would it be as oppressive? You have two problems. The radius of Sand Savant and the target cap. If we had the old version of shade use without sand Savant would the scourge be as oppressive? I believe the answer would he no. The lower radius and the lower target cap would force scourge players to be more tactical with shade placement.

    The changes to sand Savant pushed scourge into it as its sole option. It didn't open diversity as the dev's though, it closed it off in all game modes. If sand Savant was removed and devouring darkness's target cap was reduced to 3 instead of 5 suddenly their aoe pressure is worse without harming their 1v1 potential. Addressing the overwhelming power of their aoe without impacting their 1v1 or 2v2 potential should have been priority, yet so much of the class has been gutted to quell their aoe by nerfing them in areas that the scourge is struggling with.

  • Shocky.7356Shocky.7356 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    good stuff

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    Omg is this the beginning of consistent communication?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi again,

    First off, really enjoying reading through all the feedback. While we don’t have time to respond to each individual post, we wanted to respond to a few of the points that have been brought up multiple times.

    • Nerfing only Scourge will result in boons and cleanses being too strong

    This is a real concern and definitely something we thought about when deciding on which changes to make for this update. What it really comes down to is the question of how long we want to chase our own tails right now. If we nerf Scourge, then maybe we need to nerf boons and cleanses, then maybe we need to nerf conditions and corrupts, and on and on we go. Now this is one of the goals of the future patch, but that is going to take longer than the time we have for this balance cycle.

    The alternative here is to just make no changes until the future update is ready, but we don’t think this is the right thing to do. We know Scourge is a problem, so we’re going to make an adjustment in the short-term. If it does end up that Scourge was keeping things in check and those things start to overperform, we do have opportunity to make slight adjustments out of the normal balance cadence, but ideally we want to spend as much time as possible working on the patch where we are trying to address everything at once.

    • Why not do the proposed PvP splits in WvW as well, for the sake of roamers?

    The PvP changes are targeted specifically at builds that are overperforming in PvP. Looking specifically at roaming, we don’t see anything as too egregious. Certainly everything is extremely powerful, but that is the longer-term thing we’re trying to address. For now we’re trying to balance things around the existing power level while we look ahead to addressing the issue that is the existing power level. If we brought the PvP changes to WvW right now, we would probably need to do additional changes to a bunch of roaming builds. Similar to the Scourge changes this is something that we thought about, but we want to put more time into the future update instead. These changes make sense for both competitive modes in the long-term, but now may not be the right time to make them in WvW. We’ll talk about this a bit more internally, but the main concern right now would be pushing these things out of viability instead of bringing them back in line.

    THANK YOU

  • Ravezaar.4951Ravezaar.4951 Member ✭✭✭

    Just admit that the PoF Elite Speccs was a failure

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    Heralds aren’t bad close to 1.2k regen for 10 players every second... and that one passive alone...
    Quite a few condi cleanses one is aoe controled zone.

    Scourge overall is nice but when stacked.. issue comes from big server stacking lots of scourges against smaller servers.
    Balance issue m8 come from bad wvw deisgn!as well, as much game was overloaded or saturated with aoe spam then Anet added scourge... wich made gameplay worse, wins who has scourges and other aoe spam classes more stacked.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Understood. Looking forward for the upcoming changes.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2019

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi again,

    First off, really enjoying reading through all the feedback. While we don’t have time to respond to each individual post, we wanted to respond to a few of the points that have been brought up multiple times.

    • Nerfing only Scourge will result in boons and cleanses being too strong

    This is a real concern and definitely something we thought about when deciding on which changes to make for this update. What it really comes down to is the question of how long we want to chase our own tails right now. If we nerf Scourge, then maybe we need to nerf boons and cleanses, then maybe we need to nerf conditions and corrupts, and on and on we go. Now this is one of the goals of the future patch, but that is going to take longer than the time we have for this balance cycle.

    The alternative here is to just make no changes until the future update is ready, but we don’t think this is the right thing to do. We know Scourge is a problem, so we’re going to make an adjustment in the short-term. If it does end up that Scourge was keeping things in check and those things start to overperform, we do have opportunity to make slight adjustments out of the normal balance cadence, but ideally we want to spend as much time as possible working on the patch where we are trying to address everything at once.

    • Why not do the proposed PvP splits in WvW as well, for the sake of roamers?

    The PvP changes are targeted specifically at builds that are overperforming in PvP. Looking specifically at roaming, we don’t see anything as too egregious. Certainly everything is extremely powerful, but that is the longer-term thing we’re trying to address. For now we’re trying to balance things around the existing power level while we look ahead to addressing the issue that is the existing power level. If we brought the PvP changes to WvW right now, we would probably need to do additional changes to a bunch of roaming builds. Similar to the Scourge changes this is something that we thought about, but we want to put more time into the future update instead. These changes make sense for both competitive modes in the long-term, but now may not be the right time to make them in WvW. We’ll talk about this a bit more internally, but the main concern right now would be pushing these things out of viability instead of bringing them back in line.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Hopefully, sooner than later, you'll be able to share some of the potential larger changes that are on the table, so players can get a better idea and feeling of what the future may hold.

    Edit- Wanted to bring up roaming since it was mentioned... One of the biggest disparities between good and not-so-good roaming builds are in-combat on demand movement and positions skills... The team could probably address this area while also improving the world ability system...

    Page 2- https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90360/stream-feedback-multiple-topics

  • kialb.2098kialb.2098 Member
    edited November 5, 2019

    if u nerf scourge like it, spellbreaker will be so unstoppable and it will be a good clownfiesta wist a spam Winds of Disenchantment.

    I hope you have a look at it, @ Cal Cohen.2358

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    What about bringing back the old shroud cal? is there no way to do this while still nerfing scourge only in wvw? It is hurting PvE badly...Make shroud hit only 2 people if necessary, but pls bring back the old shroud

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kicast.1459 said:
    Why did we have to wait for so long for such obvious adjustments(because this is just adjustment here)
    2 years almost and this was not done...omg...
    One could argue that it is better late than never... but Jesus.... this is very late.

    sometimes never is better ..

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    Horrible changes, really. By doing such one sided nerfs you dont tackle the initial problem of powercreep. Boonspam was out of hand even before the release of scourge and the second generation of e-specs. The additional powercreep in that regard is a massive issue, you cant severly nerf scourge and especially its boon corrupts without adressing the other aspects, of the main problem. It will just shift the problem elsewhere. This situation has been there for years now, instead of doing a quick shot like this take your time and come up with a REAL solution top till bottom. Boon application should matter. Boon corrupt should matter. Mindless boon spam with near endless duration and frequency as its in the current state is just bad. Boon application is very easy and plentifull in both, number of targets, area, and reaction time. Compared to corrupt skills which already hit fewer targets, and on a longer cooldown are harder to apply; this will most likely shift the meta to an even unhealthier state while further reducing the class variance. It will be even easier to blob because boon spam and healing is far superior compared to boon corrupt and damage.

    Also nothing is fine in the balance of roaming, really nothing. Oneshot skills everywhere, AAs hitting you for a quarter or even a third of health, overpowered skills with overlapping functions as well as over the top mobility and stealth for some classes. There are severall skills that are gapclosers/damage/evade or gapclosers/damage/stun on short cooldowns, this is disgusting in terms of balance, such skills should not exist, not even as an elite skill. On the other side some classes can become close to unkillable when built for bunkering which also heavily affects the balance in Zergs. Naturally if your healing output is far greater than the damage your opponent can do this will promote powercreep as nobody would die. But thats affecting zerging more than roaming. In case of roaming, for years every single class is drifting towards a very unhealthy extreme in terms of balance, be it damage, condition spam, defence or mobility. Bring the suggested PVP changes asap to WvW and take a big and hard balance pass on overall mobility and damage across all classes. Its honestly really mind boggling how a dev can say there is nothing egregious in the current state of balance for roaming. Roaming is in the worst state of balance it has been ever.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi again,

    First off, really enjoying reading through all the feedback. While we don’t have time to respond to each individual post, we wanted to respond to a few of the points that have been brought up multiple times.

    • Nerfing only Scourge will result in boons and cleanses being too strong

    This is a real concern and definitely something we thought about when deciding on which changes to make for this update. What it really comes down to is the question of how long we want to chase our own tails right now. If we nerf Scourge, then maybe we need to nerf boons and cleanses, then maybe we need to nerf conditions and corrupts, and on and on we go. Now this is one of the goals of the future patch, but that is going to take longer than the time we have for this balance cycle.

    The alternative here is to just make no changes until the future update is ready, but we don’t think this is the right thing to do. We know Scourge is a problem, so we’re going to make an adjustment in the short-term. If it does end up that Scourge was keeping things in check and those things start to overperform, we do have opportunity to make slight adjustments out of the normal balance cadence, but ideally we want to spend as much time as possible working on the patch where we are trying to address everything at once.

    • Why not do the proposed PvP splits in WvW as well, for the sake of roamers?

    The PvP changes are targeted specifically at builds that are overperforming in PvP. Looking specifically at roaming, we don’t see anything as too egregious. Certainly everything is extremely powerful, but that is the longer-term thing we’re trying to address. For now we’re trying to balance things around the existing power level while we look ahead to addressing the issue that is the existing power level. If we brought the PvP changes to WvW right now, we would probably need to do additional changes to a bunch of roaming builds. Similar to the Scourge changes this is something that we thought about, but we want to put more time into the future update instead. These changes make sense for both competitive modes in the long-term, but now may not be the right time to make them in WvW. We’ll talk about this a bit more internally, but the main concern right now would be pushing these things out of viability instead of bringing them back in line.

    That's fine, thanks for addressing the small scale aspect of WvW where 1-10 v 1-10 does happen and is a complete mess. I hope users can see big picture here and look forward to the big power level restructuring.

    One thing I'm wondering about is how this will translate and affect PvE? I'm guessing there will be a large power disparity between competitive and PvE modes at some point that maybe looked at when you've got a handle on competitive modes but that's very long term.

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