Relentless Pursuit overlapping with Speed of Shadows

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I think this has been brought up many times before but...I still hope something can be done.

Relentless Pursuit and Speed of Shadows are very similar, being traits that deal with movement impairing conditions.I would like that Speed of Shadows remain as it is, giving this option to Core / Reaper / Scourge.

Relentless Pursuit however, should be changed to something that fits a Reaper more.

Personally I think 7 seconds shroud cooldown need to return on Reaper because it offers an extra depth and versatility to our play-style.I can choose to camp in shroud, or flash in and out of shroud with the 7 seconds CD.It reduces reliance on wurm/spectral walk as the main defensive measures we have to take for the current 10 secs shroud CD.This opens up more viable utility choices.

And if anything helps a Reaper pursue a foe relentlessly, it would be the synergy a 7 seconds shroud CD will have with Reaper Shroud 2 Dash.Not to mention a possible traited FiTG for high stun-break access and stability up-time.Very crucial for a melee bruiser.

It has been 2 years since we lost the 7 seconds Shroud.And Reaper has never been as fun without it.

[KrHome.1920]

First of all since rentless pursuit works different than speed of shadows I don't see it on their priority list.

Furthermore while speed of shadows is an instant cleanse on shroud entering, rentless pursuit is great against reapplications like the actual fotm immob spam deadeye build that stacks immob on you while killing you at the same time (try to kill that with a 7s cooldown!) or against players that are competent enought to cc you after you entered shroud to avoid speed of shadows triggering (that's what I do when fighting reapers).

Both traits have their place and it's great that reaper has the option to be almost immune to movement impairing conditions when both are traited. No way I would change that.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@KrHome.1920 said:First of all since rentless pursuit works different than speed of shadows I don't see it on their priority list.

Furthermore while speed of shadows is an instant cleanse on shroud entering, rentless pursuit is great against reapplications like the actual fotm immob spam deadeye build that stacks immob on you while killing you at the same time (try to kill that with a 7s cooldown!) or against players that are competent enought to cc you after you entered shroud to avoid speed of shadows triggering (that's what I do when fighting reapers).

Both traits have their place and it's great that reaper has the option to be almost immune to movement impairing conditions when both are traited. No way I would change that.

While I can agree with that, I would still prefer the 7 seconds shroud to replace relentless pursuit.7 seconds shroud means opponents got a smaller window to land their immobilize.7 seconds shroud also means I get more frequent access to immobilize clearing when traited, which I feel is better than reducing duration.7 seconds shroud also means I need to use less defenses to cover my shroud down-time.7 seconds shroud adds more versatility and depth to Reaper play and makes it harder for opponents to 'wait out' our shroud.All in all I feel the benefits of having the 7 seconds shroud back weighs much more than what relentless pursuit currently gives us.I guess I wouldn't mind if they used another trait in the Reaper line for that 7 seconds shroud although I think relentless pursuit is the best one to be changed.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:First of all since rentless pursuit works different than speed of shadows I don't see it on their priority list.

Furthermore while speed of shadows is an instant cleanse on shroud entering, rentless pursuit is great against reapplications like the actual fotm immob spam deadeye build that stacks immob on you while killing you at the same time (try to kill that with a 7s cooldown!) or against players that are competent enought to cc you after you entered shroud to avoid speed of shadows triggering (that's what I do when fighting reapers).

Both traits have their place and it's great that reaper has the option to be almost immune to movement impairing conditions when both are traited. No way I would change that.

While I can agree with that, I would still prefer the 7 seconds shroud to replace relentless pursuit.7 seconds shroud means opponents got a smaller window to land their immobilize.7 seconds shroud also means I get more frequent access to immobilize clearing when traited, which I feel is better than reducing duration.7 seconds shroud also means I need to use less defenses to cover my shroud down-time.7 seconds shroud adds more versatility and depth to Reaper play and makes it harder for opponents to 'wait out' our shroud.All in all I feel the benefits of having the 7 seconds shroud back weighs much more than what relentless pursuit currently gives us.I guess I wouldn't mind if they used another trait in the Reaper line for that 7 seconds shroud although I think relentless pursuit is the best one to be changed.

Mots of those read as reduced counterplay to shroud. Also all variants of shroud now do far more damage than they used to and some , if not most, was compensation for the reduction of uptime. If anything happens to the cooldown of shroud you would need to see a pretty big reduction in the amount of damage it does, life force generation of both.

Also its also limits design space since every furture espec, if there are any, now has to be balanced around this trait being a thing and being able to reduce class mechanic cooldown by 30%.

No matter how much its requested its VERY likely this wont be coming back at all.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:First of all since rentless pursuit works different than speed of shadows I don't see it on their priority list.

Furthermore while speed of shadows is an instant cleanse on shroud entering, rentless pursuit is great against reapplications like the actual fotm immob spam deadeye build that stacks immob on you while killing you at the same time (try to kill that with a 7s cooldown!) or against players that are competent enought to cc you after you entered shroud to avoid speed of shadows triggering (that's what I do when fighting reapers).

Both traits have their place and it's great that reaper has the option to be almost immune to movement impairing conditions when both are traited. No way I would change that.

While I can agree with that, I would still prefer the 7 seconds shroud to replace relentless pursuit.7 seconds shroud means opponents got a smaller window to land their immobilize.7 seconds shroud also means I get more frequent access to immobilize clearing when traited, which I feel is better than reducing duration.7 seconds shroud also means I need to use less defenses to cover my shroud down-time.7 seconds shroud adds more versatility and depth to Reaper play and makes it harder for opponents to 'wait out' our shroud.All in all I feel the benefits of having the 7 seconds shroud back weighs much more than what relentless pursuit currently gives us.I guess I wouldn't mind if they used another trait in the Reaper line for that 7 seconds shroud although I think relentless pursuit is the best one to be changed.

Mots of those read as reduced counterplay to shroud. Also all variants of shroud now do far more damage than they used to and some , if not most, was compensation for the reduction of uptime. If anything happens to the cooldown of shroud you would need to see a pretty big reduction in the amount of damage it does, life force generation of both.

Um well...personally I'm fine with reduction in other areas if it means giving us back the 7 seconds shroud...better than allowing opponents to easily kite and wait out our shroud which makes all that big numbers null anyway.

Also its also limits design space since every furture espec, if there are any, now has to be balanced around this trait being a thing and being able to reduce class mechanic cooldown by 30%.

We can avoid this by placing the 7 seconds shroud trait in the Reaper trait line only. Which means only Reaper can use it.

No matter how much its requested its VERY likely this wont be coming back at all.

Sadly I agree but I'm holding out for that glimmer of hope :'(

[miguelsil.6324]

7s allowed some needed survival that the classe lacks badly, they wont do it because they always thing the class is in a good state.

As long as you have babysitters you are ok.

[KrHome.1920]

Alternative: Give necro alacrity. ^^

[Sobx.1758]

They don't really overlap. One removes the movement impairing conditions, but is on a forced cooldown bound to shroud cd, the other one reduces the times passively when you can't/don't want to enter the shroud or are already using it.I'm not sure why you claim your proposal on lowering shroud cd would "add depth", while it's just an overall buff (even to the relentless pursuit trait itself btw) that lets you use it more often. If anything, I'd say it lowers the depth and encourages more... unrestricted shroud usage. Increasing the ability to spam something doesn't equal increased depth, pretty sure it's quite the opposite.

[ZDragon.3046]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I think this has been brought up many times before but...I still hope something can be done.

Relentless Pursuit and Speed of Shadows are very similar, being traits that deal with movement impairing conditions.I would like that Speed of Shadows remain as it is, giving this option to Core / Reaper / Scourge.

Relentless Pursuit however, should be changed to something that fits a Reaper more.

Personally I think 7 seconds shroud cooldown need to return on Reaper because it offers an extra depth and versatility to our play-style.I can choose to camp in shroud, or flash in and out of shroud with the 7 seconds CD.It reduces reliance on wurm/spectral walk as the main defensive measures we have to take for the current 10 secs shroud CD.This opens up more viable utility choices.

And if anything helps a Reaper pursue a foe relentlessly, it would be the synergy a 7 seconds shroud CD will have with Reaper Shroud 2 Dash.Not to mention a possible traited FiTG for high stun-break access and stability up-time.Very crucial for a melee bruiser.

It has been 2 years since we lost the 7 seconds Shroud.And Reaper has never been as fun without it.

No no no no no no NO no no NO no NO

Sorry but noI use both these traits in combo with one another so im not hindered by chill and cripple. As necromancer really SUCKS when you are chilled or crippled more so than some of the other professions who have more skills that move you ignoring the chill/cripple effects allowing you to keep up or get away from people.Do not change it

IF you want to contest 7 second shroud put it some where else.Ask to roll it into the shroud knight Minor if you really feel reaper needs it that badly.Or put it in death magic and erase one of those invalid (on death) traits that are practically useless till the fighting is done and over with.Or put it on Foot in the grave which is already beyond outdated in comparison to the other grandmastersDo not i repeat do NOT remove either of these 2 perfectly good traits that keep you from getting over crippled/ chilled which lead to certain death more so than having a shorter shroud cd.

Being someone who uses both speed of shadows and Relentless pursuit alot in a large majority of my builds i can contest that both traits have clear cut different purposes and are a blessing to reaper considering its already lacking in mobility and needs to get into melee range to slap people.

Even when using 1 without the other their effects are greatly noticeable

[Anchoku.8142]

@KrHome.1920 said:Alternative: Give necro alacrity. ^^

Arenanet said they changed visual effects on skills like barrier and alacrity so they could give those skills to other professions.

So, just like the Death Magic rework that fixed absolutely nothing, Necro will likely find itself the proud owner of more vulnerability output.

[KrHome.1920]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Alternative: Give necro alacrity. ^^

Arenanet said they changed visual effects on skills like barrier and alacrity so they could give those skills to other professions.

So, just like the Death Magic rework that fixed absolutely nothing, Necro will likely find itself the proud owner of more vulnerability output.Well, don't say anything against vulnerability! =) Templates caused me to mess around with power core necro a bit these days and it became clear how good decimate defenses is. It makes you so flexible in gear choices on reaper... it's great... and it only works because of the massive vulnerability spam.

[Sobx.1758]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:Alternative: Give necro alacrity. ^^

Arenanet said they changed visual effects on skills like barrier and alacrity so they could give those skills to other professions.

No, they didn't. They said they changed it to fit other professions. Most probably because professions other than chrono (in case of alacr) can already grant it. And while I can't be 100% sure that's the reason, they didn't specifically say that they changed it "so they can give it to new professions now".

[Yannir.4132]

@"Sobx.1758" said:No, they didn't. They said they changed it to fit other professions. Most probably because professions other than chrono (in case of alacr) can already grant it. And while I can't be 100% sure that's the reason, they didn't specifically say that they changed it "so they can give it to new professions now".

These 2 aren't mutually exclusive options. I think it's unlikely that any more classes will gain Barrier or Alacrity on their current skills. I think it's more about giving them some more leeway when it comes to future skills.

I can't believe there are people that use Relentless Pursuit. I thought that trait was completely dead weight.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:No, they didn't. They said they changed it to fit other professions.

Most probably

because professions other than chrono (in case of alacr) can already grant it. And while I can't be 100% sure that's the reason, they didn't specifically say that they changed it "so they can give it to new professions now".

These 2 aren't mutually exclusive options. I think it's unlikely that any more classes will gain Barrier or Alacrity on their

current

skills. I think it's more about giving them some more leeway when it comes to future skills.

I can't believe there are people that use Relentless Pursuit. I thought that trait was completely dead weight.

I never said they're mutually exclusive. Literally wrote: And while I can't be 100% sure that's the reason, they didn't specifically say that they changed it "so they can give it to new professions now".The main point here is to stop overinterpreting patchnotes and claim "Anet said they'll do it!" while they didn't. Because then people will keep repeating this lie instead of checking if it's actually true. That's all. :D

[KrHome.1920]

@Yannir.4132 said:I can't believe there are people that use Relentless Pursuit. I thought that trait was completely dead weight.It is better than chilling nova outside of pve as chilling nova was nerfed to uselessness. Irrelevant damage that can not crit and 1s of chill limited to a previous chill application which gets cleansed anyway right before that additional second matters - all on an 8s icd.

So if you don't pve and don't run some shouts (then select augury of death) relentless pursuit is your trait of choice.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:No, they didn't. They said they changed it to fit other professions.

Most probably

because professions other than chrono (in case of alacr) can already grant it. And while I can't be 100% sure that's the reason, they didn't specifically say that they changed it "so they can give it to new professions now".

These 2 aren't mutually exclusive options. I think it's unlikely that any more classes will gain Barrier or Alacrity on their

current

skills. I think it's more about giving them some more leeway when it comes to future skills.

I can't believe there are people that use Relentless Pursuit. I thought that trait was completely dead weight.

I’ve been using relentless pursuit for a couple years now.

Not many people know this but you can make your build in such a way (in WvW) to gain 100% reduction in CC application while in shroud, which means an immunity to chill, cripple and immobilize, something extremely useful for a reaper. This gives your condition cleansing more potency by clearing more potent conditions, which makes you more resilient.

Speed of Shadows is the trait that is redundant, and if anything is to be changed, it would be reverting Speed of Shadows, which we know anet will never do.

[KrHome.1920]

Speed of shadows is important for core necros. Without this trait they are not only hardcountered by hard cc but also by soft cc.

A lot more of soft cc is flying around since sos was reworked. For todays standards this is a very useful trait.

[Yannir.4132]

@KrHome.1920 said:So if you don't pve and don't run some shouts (then select augury of death) relentless pursuit is your trait of choice.

I've yet to come across a viable Reaper build with 0 Shouts in it. Just having one of either YSIM! or CTTB! in your build is enough to justify running Augury of Death. I don't WvW though, especially not on necro. Just PvP/PvE.Soul Reaping is also pretty common which means there's a good chance you're already running the superior Speed of Shadows which just makes Relentless Pursuit obsolete. Also, just as a personal preference of mine, I tend to run Sigil of Escape on my A/Wh set along with Speed of Shadows which makes me pretty tough to bog down with soft CC's.

[DeceiverX.8361]

The reduction in duration on movement impairing effects is arguably even more valuable than what SoS offers.Shroud cooldown should just be baseline 7 seconds for RShroud. I'd be more than okay with losing some damage from RO for it.