Some classes are immune to condition damage

[DeerHunter.4129]

Its possible to be 90% resistant against player who has chosen condition gear and build, but not possible to be 90% resistant to normal damage geared player. Therefore Condition geared builds in PvP do face enemies they cant kill in any way even if they try 10 minutes in a duel. But Normal damage builds/gear doesnt have similar opponents that would be 90% resistant to their damage..

I understand its important to have skills against conditions, but for some classes those are so powerful they are completely impossible to kill if you choose condition build for any of your characters. Think if some would be immune to normal damage, why isnt that implemented too if its possible to be immune to condition damage ?

[Eugchriss.2046]

This is too vague. Which spec, which build and which gear are you talking about?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Why is this a problem? Boo on condi dmg, just be careful" (quote from a quagon)

[Bazsi.2734]

Would love to know which builds are ~90% resistant to condition damage though. I barely have a few ideas, and they only work in theory(Like Mallyx revenant, in a world where boonrips don't exist).

[reikken.4961]

Indeed, condition damage is not in a good state (I'm not sure if it ever has been). Condition application and cleansing is far too extreme. It's possible to build to apply like 7-condition bursts multiple times over a 10-20 second window. And it's also possible to build to cleanse most of it. So when a build that has less extreme condi spam comes up against a build made to fight against the extreme, it's totally ineffective.

[anduriell.6280]

Is that a condi thief complaining?

You see if we could see how many hours OP has with which class and gamemode we could give better feedback and answers.

[Crab Fear.1624]

I can play on acro staff and be 90% immune to conditions.

[Dawdler.8521]

While this may come as an absolutely shocking surprise to many people on the forum - going by pretty much every balance thread - this is strangely enough a common feature in a class and build based MMO. Yes, some builds can counter other builds!

[DeerHunter.4129]

I have played Condition dual dagger thief Daredevil, Condition Deadeye (not seen anyone else playing this but me), Condition Staff/Axe Mirage Mesmer. And its exactly same opponents that are immune to all of these 3 condition builds. I dont know their exact builds but Engineers, Elementalists, Guardians can be completely immune to my damage, also from my own experience Normal Deadeye can be almost immune to condition too as stealth removes conditions and Deadeye has a lot of stealth. When i play normal damage deadeye or staff daredevil forexample, i dont have similar problems, i can kill anything. Staff Daredevil main skill is bugged tho which makes is impossible to play.

Lets put it this way: Against Condition damage, there is cleansing skills that can remove 5 conditions in instant or in short period of time = in other words those are skills that can block 15000 damage in an instantAgainst normal damage there is the block skill which can block single strike about 2000-4000 damage average ? But block can also block condition skill btw.

So Condition builds have these superior opposite skills, but normal damage has much weaker opposite skills. Why are condition damage's cleansin skills so so so much more powerful than skills designed to block normal damage ? Why doesnt condition cleansing skills clean like 1-2 conditions and maybe have shorter cooldown.. why do they remove like 5 in short time.

[Yannir.4132]

@DeerHunter.4129 said:I have played Condition dual dagger thief Daredevil, Condition Deadeye, Condition Staff/Axe Mirage Mesmer. And its exactly same opponents that are immune to all of these 3 condition builds. I dont know their exact builds but Engineers, Elementalists, Guardians can be completely immune to my damage. When i play normal damage deadeye forexample, i dont have similar problems, i can kill anything.

You just listed the 3 builds/classes that are designed to be like that.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@DeerHunter.4129 said:I have played Condition dual dagger thief Daredevil, Condition Deadeye, Condition Staff/Axe Mirage Mesmer. And its exactly same opponents that are immune to all of these 3 condition builds. I dont know their exact builds but Engineers, Elementalists, Guardians can be completely immune to my damage. When i play normal damage deadeye forexample, i dont have similar problems, i can kill anything.

You just listed the 3 builds/classes that are designed to be like that.

Are there 3 builds/classes that are designed to be immune specifically to direct (power) damage? If not, OP raises an interesting point.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Dawdler.8521 said:While this may come as an absolutely shocking surprise to many people on the forum - going by pretty much every balance thread - this is strangely enough a common feature in a class and build based MMO. Yes, some builds can counter other builds!

Shocking, indeed. But, granted that power glass canon usually manage to have their counter builds nerfed enough for them to come on top, I believe the OP might manage to gain something out of his thread.

[Yannir.4132]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@DeerHunter.4129 said:I have played Condition dual dagger thief Daredevil, Condition Deadeye, Condition Staff/Axe Mirage Mesmer. And its exactly same opponents that are immune to all of these 3 condition builds. I dont know their exact builds but Engineers, Elementalists, Guardians can be completely immune to my damage. When i play normal damage deadeye forexample, i dont have similar problems, i can kill anything.

You just listed the 3 builds/classes that are designed to be like that.

Are there 3 builds/classes that are designed to be immune specifically to direct (power) damage? If not, OP raises an interesting point.

Condition damage is IMO more comparable to Critical damage than flat Power damage. They both supplement Power hits and flat damage.If that's the basis for comparison, the answer to your question is yes, there are some. Maybe not 3 though.This is a thing I've been wondering about, there are very few things that interact with crits in a defensive way. Main things that come to mind are Balanced Stance on Warrior and Stone Heart on Elementalist.

I do agree that conversation about the topic is in order.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

This is possible because of what is called trait synergies. A few specific classes have traitlines that drop into extreme synergy when skilled right, for example Ele can cleanse conditions on theirself and allies with Regeneration, and then they can give out Regeneration using every single aura and some shouts and overloads, and then alot of those skills cleanse conditions as well (Healing Rain, Overload Water, etc.).

This leads to a "synergistic cascade", in which the whole build is cooperating with itself. Its quite powerful, and what defines min/maxing builds in GW2, and its classes that lack synergistic builds that are weak or even broken.

Unfortunately instead of creating more builds like this, they tend to get removed due to cries of being overpowered, so instead of every player and class feeling functional and strong, you end up with people running around playing wet noodles, screaming for the next class to get nerfed so they can deal or take damage again, in an endlessly downward spiral of "negative balance" that was proven ineffective decades ago.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@DeerHunter.4129 said:Its possible to be 90% resistant against player who has chosen condition gear and build, but not possible to be 90% resistant to normal damage geared player. Therefore Condition geared builds in PvP do face enemies they cant kill in any way even if they try 10 minutes in a duel. But Normal damage builds/gear doesnt have similar opponents that would be 90% resistant to their damage..

I understand its important to have skills against conditions, but for some classes those are so powerful they are completely impossible to kill if you choose condition build for any of your characters. Think if some would be immune to normal damage, why isnt that implemented too if its possible to be immune to condition damage ?

That's why you use stats like Carrion or Sage, so your attacks have power damage tied into them.

Of course you're going to deal no damage to a condi resistant spec if you're running Deadshot with no power damage and trying to bank on expertise.

[Arkantos.7460]

i can resist with mallyx herald a very long time but i use cleanse of weapon sigil and copy boons by any time ;)but has very weakness against cc chains

[Aza.2105]

@Bazsi.2734 said:Would love to know which builds are ~90% resistant to condition damage though. I barely have a few ideas, and they only work in theory(Like Mallyx revenant, in a world where boonrips don't exist).

Realistically the only class in game who has high condi immunity mitigation would be renegade but no one plays them.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Condi is a low skill damage type. If the enemy can out sustain it then, you should try power damage that actually can work against all builds if your good enough. If you can't handle it and make it work then u need to be further down the ladder.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@DeerHunter.4129 said:I have played Condition dual dagger thief Daredevil, Condition Deadeye, Condition Staff/Axe Mirage Mesmer. And its exactly same opponents that are immune to all of these 3 condition builds. I dont know their exact builds but Engineers, Elementalists, Guardians can be completely immune to my damage. When i play normal damage deadeye forexample, i dont have similar problems, i can kill anything.

You just listed the 3 builds/classes that are designed to be like that.

Are there 3 builds/classes that are designed to be immune specifically to direct (power) damage? If not, OP raises an interesting point.

In my opinion, build automatically beating another build should not 'exist'. Or, should I say, the option to nearly completely nullify someone else's effectiveness should not exist.

As per league of legends, the reason I dislike(d) top lane is the heavy focus on counter-picking and meta power picks. The reason (I'd argue) the game's easier to balance is the resource mechanic (mana, energy or health), which discourages spamming and makes a gained advantage stick more noticeably.

I want player versus player emphasis, not passive effects beating active effort. To Anet's encouragement and credit, this has been the direction they've been moving in lately.