Jump to content
  • Sign Up

World Restructuring Update 2


Raymond Lukes.6305

Recommended Posts

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

Yes, but now they are preparing to actually start work on it...and they have told us that's progress. I mean, Rome wasn't built in a day (so I'm told), so this seems like a good thing. We just have to overlook that it took them almost 2 years to prepare to start working on the thing they announced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Ubi.4136 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

Yes, but now they are preparing to actually start work on it...and they have told us that's progress. I mean, Rome wasn't built in a day (so I'm told), so this seems like a good thing. We just have to overlook that it took them almost 2 years to prepare to start working on the thing they announced.

They really should stop announcing stuff they're not currently/only just started working on. I mean, I know no news is just as bad sometimes, but hype turns sour fast if you're not careful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

Yes, but now they are preparing to actually start work on it...and they have told us that's progress. I mean, Rome wasn't built in a day (so I'm told), so this seems like a good thing. We just have to overlook that it took them almost 2 years to prepare to start working on the thing they announced.

They really should stop announcing stuff they're not currently/only just started working on. I mean, I know no news is just as bad sometimes, but hype turns sour fast if you're not careful.

At this point you can’t even call it hype... Maybe for the first year...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Ubi.4136 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

Yes, but now they are preparing to actually start work on it...and they have told us that's progress. I mean, Rome wasn't built in a day (so I'm told), so this seems like a good thing. We just have to overlook that it took them almost 2 years to prepare to start working on the thing they announced.

They really should stop announcing stuff they're not currently/only just started working on. I mean, I know no news is just as bad sometimes, but hype turns sour fast if you're not careful.

At this point you can’t even call it hype... Maybe for the first year...

Oh yeah, in not defending the timescale at all here, whatever damage might have been done has been done by this point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Counter-point to that, people also complain when ANet doesn't tell them anything at all, and spring a surprise at them 3 months before they release it, and by then too late for input :p

In that regard, I think it was a good thing they announced it as early as possible, as it gives us at least a (imagined?) window of time to deliver input and feedback before it gets locked down in development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Counter-point to that, people also complain when ANet doesn't tell them anything at all, and spring a surprise at them 3 months before they release it, and by then too late for input :p

In that regard, I think it was a good thing they announced it as early as possible, as it gives us at least a (imagined?) window of time to deliver input and feedback before it gets locked down in development.


Whatever that gets "locked down in development" needs to address 3 Major Problems:

  1. Reduce the direct impact of Server stacking to Match-Ups
  2. Allow friends & family to play together from many different Worlds
  3. Allow Off-peak capping, but let players to work out a solution themselves

As far as feedback...I'd like to point developers to these comprehensive threads for them to study:

Sorted by Posted Date - Proposed Solutions to Fixing WvW:

WvG - World vs Globes2019.10.05https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

Alliance Design That Stops the QQ2018.12.09 <--- 1 Year Anniversary coming uphttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62658/alliance-design-that-stops-the-qq/p1

World Restructuring2018.01.31 <--- 2 Year Anniversary coming uphttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring/p1


We should seriously be asking the developers & the community:

  1. How effective are these proposals in addressing the 3 Major Problems?
  2. Does the proposal offer clarity & concise steps on How To Get it Done?
  3. Does the proposal offer a way on How To Guide & Implement Future Changes based on Community Feedback?

WvW is floundering & sitting around with no clear & solid plan will just lead to endless discussion that gets us nowhere.

Anet's financial future depends on having a good solid game mode that consistently attracts customers to their Gem Stores.

Do something - Give Us Feedback - Please stop ignoring the WvW Community.

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clear Leadership, Concise Knowledge, & Personal Accountability...is somewhat lacking...imho

Discussions just go in circles while nothing gets done...unless that's what this community wants.

When are we going to get an update & feedback? Aren't folks curious How we're going to fix WvW?

Why are we arguing...we have the same goal...I hope...for WvW to get better.

Don't you want Fun & Healthy Competitive Match-Ups?

Don't you want ANet to benefit financially by your patronage...and thus keep improving WvW for your enjoyment?

Yours truly,Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's really been two years? I mean in 2years, you released wings,new maps,a lot of WvW players left the game. And here we are, waiting for the alliance to happen. Remember Zodin and the guild Zen? They left this game two years ago, and since then nothing has changed in this game mode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:Hey everyone,

Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it.

I realize this is a necro from last year but just going to say i think this bit is a mistake. addressing the time zone imbalance should be an integral part of restructuring not an afterthought

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@retconned.9358 said:

@Raymond Lukes.6305 said:Hey everyone,

Will time zone imbalance still be an issue
It is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it.

I realize this is a necro from last year but just going to say i think this bit is a mistake. addressing the time zone imbalance should be an integral part of restructuring not an afterthought

I would forgive the imbalance after thought... If they would only actually add/change something positively. Give me a reason to fight my ass off, something to win for. Some competitive gameplay for a competitive game mode, ya know? I like the game well enough, but my favorite game mode is...well, Shit

Here's to 2 more years!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

No, I didn't realize this. Someone else bumped the thread up so it was near the top of the first page when I read it.

The thing is, as the original post is a year old, that just makes it worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:First off, thanks for communicating that there's some work going on. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate that and the communication, 'cause I'm gonna rag on your post.

Everything I read is saying that you just got on the job, you're trying to figure out whats going on, you're making improvements to the existing system that was only supposed to be temporary and implemented @ 3 years ago, and you're just starting on the alliance foundation. I think that's pretty disappointing (not in you or your work, but Anet), but as I, and most others were expecting exactly that, no big deal. At least someone has started on it. I guess we'll see something in 2021. All of the info is mostly stuff we already were expecting from 2 year old posts.

A big warning:

"Will time zone imbalance still be an issueIt is true that in the initial release of World Restructuring we are not planning to consider time zone distribution when creating worlds. Part of that is so we can get the primary aspects of the system in and gather data about how the system works given the metrics we are using for balance. We want to compare apples to apples to give us the clearest information. This also will allow us to have a new baseline to compare against modifications to the metrics used for balancing the teams. We also are discussing some other ways to address “off hours” play, so stay tuned for more info as we can share it."

YOU CAN NOT IMPLEMENT ALLIANCES WITHOUT ADDRESSING THIS. If you do, all your work and all the faith the WvW community has in you will be lost. This is one of the biggest issues and one of the main reasons why alliance system is being built. I honestly don't see what is so hard about this. If you have OCX guilds, you put them on different worlds. SEA guilds, different worlds. Odd number that not divisible by 3, then you try to space them out as evenly as possible acrross worlds. It's the same kitten thing you're doing for NA.

For the love of god, don't put out something that is half assed and stop using us a beta testers. We can tell you exactly what's going to happen. It will be a big fail, and people will leave and the people you were hoping to come back, won't. Test it. Test it again. Polish it, beta test it, and LISTEN to the feedback and make changes. Then test it again. Seriously.

You do realize their last entry was over... 11 months ago right? We are about 28 days away from the 1 year anniversary of any official update.

No, I didn't realize this. Someone else bumped the thread up so it was near the top of the first page when I read it.

The thing is, as the original post is a year old, that just makes it worse.

I brought it back specifically to raise awareness that it’s been a year since the last formal update on this. Also, maybe to keep it in the general consciousness.

And yes, it does make it worse,,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Justine.6351 said:

@sostronk.8167 said:So alliances isn't going to happen at all?

We have had alliances since launch.It's called stacking a server and that's pretty much all it will be in practice anyhow.

Good players like playing with good players and there are not enough good players to make an even opposition.

Nothing personal but that's just laughable. Good players like a good gameplay experience, which is defined by quality teammates and quality opposition. Lazy players like playing in the stack, good players run from it . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Gop.8713 said:

@sostronk.8167 said:So alliances isn't going to happen at all?

We have had alliances since launch.It's called stacking a server and that's pretty much all it will be in practice anyhow.

Good players like playing with good players and there are not enough good players to make an even opposition.

Nothing personal but that's just laughable. Good players like a good gameplay experience, which is defined by quality teammates and quality opposition. Lazy players like playing in the stack, good players run from it . . .

And yet it's exactly what we have, soooo....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:May I ask where the WvW player suggestion thread "What do WvW'ers want?" went? Why was it deleted?

That was my thread. To say why would be commenting on moderation and would be against the forum rules.

Ah, intersting. I didn't check it out myself but was incorrectly told that it was an official thread created by the head developer responsible for WvW content now. What a shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to phrase this carefully because I don't want this to get removed as a "matchup" comment... but the current state of the pairings is IMO worse than it's ever been. Restructuring can't come soon enough and it's well past time for them to update us again on just what the heck is going on.

If the pieces they have to join are so misshapen that it seems reasonable to pair the two servers with the biggest off-hours coverage to create a PPT juggernaut, and the smallest host with the smallest link with no coverage outside of NA prime to just get rolled every matchup... again, help can't come soon enough. This is beyond boring for everyone who doesn't think karma training empty objectives is fun.

I've stuck with WvW devotedly for 5+ years now, through all kinds of changes, good times and dark times and no matter what always managed to find something fun to do, which kept me coming back. I'm finally, sadly finding that fun all but snuffed out. We NEED some hope on the horizon, because this... this just can't continue this way. Really never thought I'd join the gloom and doom crew but I'm ready to hang it up with the current state of things.

Give us something guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:I have to phrase this carefully because I don't want this to get removed as a "matchup" comment... but the current state of the pairings is IMO worse than it's ever been. Restructuring can't come soon enough and it's well past time for them to update us again on just what the heck is going on.

If the pieces they have to join are so misshapen that it seems reasonable to pair the two servers with the biggest off-hours coverage to create a PPT juggernaut, and the smallest host with the smallest link with no coverage outside of NA prime to just get rolled every matchup... again, help can't come soon enough. This is beyond boring for everyone who doesn't think karma training empty objectives is fun.

I've stuck with WvW devotedly for 5+ years now, through all kinds of changes, good times and dark times and no matter what always managed to find something fun to do, which kept me coming back. I'm finally, sadly finding that fun all but snuffed out. We NEED some hope on the horizon, because this... this just can't continue this way. Really never thought I'd join the gloom and doom crew but I'm ready to hang it up with the current state of things.

Give us something guys.

Pit of MiseryDilly Dilly

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...