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Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival


Robert Gee.9246

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I really hope the Signet of Undeath cost is either reduced from the massive 50% to a more manageable number, otherwise like people and I have said the active will just never be used since the cost is way too high for the effect since losing the passive is also a cost not just the life cost

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Signet of Undeath buff is much welcomed. Right now there is little reason to use it. Even if you trait it, if you want life force, you just use spectral grasp on cooldown and get way more life force. AND you get a bunch of CC. So the signet is pretty pointless for that. And then for reviving... I've tried to use this skill multiple times in PvP, but it basically never works. The cast time is almost as long as the cast to finish/"stomp" (which already sometimes takes longer than just doing dps), and necro has little to no access to quickness or stability or aegis. And is a common focus target in the first place. So odds of completing a cast are near zero. Compare to signet of mercy. Not only is it a shorter cast, but firebrand has all the quickness, stability, and aegis in the world. Can't even compare the two situations. Total opposites.

So cutting the cast time is very needed if it is to actually ever be used to revive. Even with having a shorter cast than signet of mercy, it'll still be easier to interrupt, due to necro's lack of boons, but can't really ask for much more. Dunno about this enormous health cost, though. Seems pretty harsh for the worst class in the game at self healing. I suppose the idea is to make it a skill that's taken for the passive effect only and never used. I guess it'd be good in the impossible case of your enemies ignoring the necro and only attacking your allies. Then it would be incredibly powerful.

Should probably consume life force instead, as someone else suggested.

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@Reverielle.3972 said:

@"Robert Gee.9246" said:
I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

Hi, this is Trixx from [PINK] Community Portal, the EU JP portal guild.The reduced falling damage is essential for many portal skips. A save way down is often blocked due to the no flight/mount zones and only with a fall damage reducing trait a save portal to the end of a jumping puzzle is possible. With this changes you will lock out the ppl that can not jump, due handicaps or lack of patience or skill or ... , from achievements and dailys. We provide a special service to the communtiy and we won't be able to continue this service in its entirety with these future changes.

I'm fairly sure Jumping puzzles were never meant to be 'risk free' parts of the game, nor were they designed to be skipped and completed in many ways they are today. Many are are designed to be challenging content, either exploratory wise (finding the right path) or mechanically wise (being able to make the right jump). Players that are too impatient (that is all jumping puzzles essentially really need: patience, this is coming from a bad jumper myself) simply must accept not to do them. Players need to realise that there will - and should - be some challenging aspects in the game, and many jumping puzzles were designed to fall under that category. The game can't continually be simplified/diluted down to the lowest common denominator.

Think before you babble. Jumping puzzles are required content for all legendary weapon precursors. If you make portals impossible you exclude handicapped players from completing any precursor collection.

So? That's part of the legendary weapon journey. It has always been the intent of development to span multiple play-styles/requirements on the journey to getting a legendary.
"They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2"
. These are the top items in the game. You do have to do some work, and put in some effort for them, you know? Your comment makes me think you have not been playing the game (or at least paying attention) for very long.

Guild Wars 2 is not about cutting off fans from doing particular content due to a disability that they have.

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@"Cristalyan.5728" said:You still play a Chrono in WvW? With the Inspiration line? Well, to use CS you need at least one clone. If you are not as fast as Speedy Gonzales, you will not have the chance to use CS in a zerg fight. Moreover, if your squad is down you will need a lot of time for this combination (a "lot" compared with the time needed for the enemy team to kill you). In fact, I'm pretty sure that in such condition you will not even have time to start resurrecting someone.

It is nice to theorize. But please, go play WvW. You will find the WvW environment to be quite different from the "laboratory" environment.

IK you like being toxic but i usually roam in WvW. PvE i use chrono and i have seen chronos in WvW for veil / portal bombs. It's a valid strat.

Anyway back on topic. I'm seeking clarification from the devs. Since they state reviving. Since it's just stated that feedback revives 5% per second. Full dead or just downed it's not clarified.

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@Pyroatheist.9031 said:No, it'll have a 5-target cap like every other normal aoe in the game. Additionally, if a mesmer is able to stand there burning a hilarious amount of cooldowns to slowly res people that can just get poisoned and cleaved out anyway, something has gone terribly wrong. This is a cute change but completely useless for WvW.

Just want clarification :P. They also only state

now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.meaning it could work on full dead as well. Since you can revive full dead when ooc.

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I've never been one to make use of the fall damage traits for the fall damage reduction myself But.

I Believe that you gain tremendously by leaving in some of the more innocent and quirky little builds mostly because they are tactically Superior to other builds in a different way : the surprise effect. If players dont expect you to roll it, they'll be unfamiliar with how it works, and wont be able to respond properly, which gives you an edge over them. In this particular case, fall damage reduction has a lot of uses in PvE and WvW where maps are a lot more vertical. In PvP, the uses are sparse, but still there, and can turn a battle if used properly. It is not "necessary" per se, but it definitely is nice to have options.It's Always important to remember that Guild Wars 2 is appreciated by it's players for the Freedom it has when it comes to how their character can play, thus removing options outright is going to have a stronger impact than you can anticipate, even if in your eyes, those traits are minor and not really important, compared to the other bonuses.

If they matter so little, isn't it possible to have them put on Minor traits instead so that taking a Specialization gives you the fall reduction damage, rather than in a choice for major traits ?

As far as reviving go, be careful to not render healer players obsolete. Some players dedicate themselves to the welfare of others, and revive boost tend to be particularly important to their builds. I can understand the problem with competitive play, but they should remain as is in PvE.

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If fall damage reduction in PvE is going to be removed because "we have gliders and mounts now and it's too complicated and unnecessary" (I don't see what is so complicated about "you take less fall damage, but.... OK), then there shouldn't be zones in the open world where gliders and mounts are disabled, because otherwise that argument has some holes in it.

For example, JPs:Either you're going down the route that old content should be experienced "as it was designed" i.e. without mounts and gliders to help out, but in that case, we had that trait to take less fall damage, and the option was there for those who just weren't very adept at jumping.Or you're saying that fall damage reduction is obsolete because we have gliders and mounts, but then let us actually use those. Enforcing us to take 100% fall damage in some instances AND giving no option to mitigate/prevent it does not feel very balanced to me.

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@"Robert Gee.9246" said:Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've been following this thread and I wanted to respond to a some comments that have come up a few times:

Medic's Feedback might be too strong.We are a little worried about it but not any more than the other revival changes.

The problem with throwing stuff in game that you're "worried" about and unsure of is that it takes forever for things to get fixed once they are live (the "part 2" of various balance and wvw additions sometimes never turns up at all). The fact that you are implying you are worried about -all- changes is of concern. I'm also concerned that resources are being spent on stuff like this that nobody asked for when there are so many bigger balance issues.

Cal's posts in WvW had made me cautiously optimistic. Shame.

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IMO since the game modes now have splitted teams for balance, the PvE team should care more about the balance of certain classes like FB(wich is too dumb and strong) and Holo(wich is too complicated and weak), all this QoL should be left after they fix the awful skill:reward ratio of some classes, all this is nice and shiny but WvW/PvP will get balance patched, and PvE will get unmeaningful trait changes I mean as from a raid perspective I cant really think about any case of using these other than twisted castle, and some Jumping Puzzles in open world

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Changing revival and removing fall damage protection are changes that do not need to be made. In fact, that's pretty much this whole list in a nutshell: CHANGE FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE, which is a never good sign for a game's direction. This game still has major technical problems (AUTO TARGETING) years old that have never been addressed. Stop rearranging the deck chairs and start addressing the real issues.

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@"Vegeta.2563" said:

we feel that they are currently over-complicating trait descriptions

What's complicated about "reduces fall damage by 50%" ?

Removing the fall damage trait is going to make doing some jumping puzzles impossible to complete. For example someone without a mount or glider doing the Silverwastes JP, that requires you to jump down to reach a checkpoint needs the fall damage reduction part of the trait to survive. There is no way around it.

I believe they should remain in PvE at the very least.

This. And it's not just jumping puzzles. Ascent to Madness at Halloween will now be pretty much impossible due to all the long jumps chasing after the Mad King. They're already still borderline lethal even if you have fall protection if you don't stop and heal, which just adds needless time to the whole thing.

DO NOT REMOVE FALL DAMAGE REDUCTION. Period.

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Just adding in my voice to not get rid of the fall damage reduction. I'd be fine with a rework, changing fall reduction altogether or putting it behind a mastery - but since I love exploring, this is sometimes really essential. Yes, gliding has reduced my deaths due to falling damage significantly, but in many areas - mainly JPs, but also instances and stuff - gliding is not possible.

So I welcome simplification of these traits, but I'd still like to see falling damage reduction somewhere. Not having to switch builds would even be a plus - even though one could now get a "exploring build template"... :tongue:

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@Jimbru.6014 said:Oh, and the changes to Signet of Undeath remove one of the Necro's primary emergency buttons in groups. Bad, bad, BAD idea, for a class that already is just barely holding on to what little niche it has left in this game.

they only care about Guard.. time to just play Guardian.. Scourge is already an old story and gone from game.. Tempest Support only thing he had to offer for the party was good healing and ress ability.. to keep them alive.. he lost the 10% revive speed while other sups lost it aswell they never really ment for revive but for boons.and also. .. they gave most classes gyzer why play tempest sup now? or necro? just play guard have perm protection inane everything.. 1 class to do it all.i lost my passion for this game right now and im not going to support them anymore or spend a single peny more on this game until they actually start to communicate about pve aswell and balance this game.

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@"Robert Gee.9246" said:Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've been following this thread and I wanted to respond to a some comments that have come up a few times:

Can you kill yourself with Signet of Undeath's active?No. Health is a resource similar to Initiative or Adrenaline. The skill will simply be greyed out and uncastable if you don't have the required health cost.

Are you serious? The concept of "Initiative" or "Adrenaline" on Necro is LF ...... not HPInitiative and Adrenaline can only access by the Thief or Warrior him/herself, but HP IS NOTIf some day Necros' HP is only self-accessible or Signet of Undeath can really UN-DEATH my friend. I'm ok to using HP not LF

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@"Robert Gee.9246"

Wvw meta already adjusted long time ago... mass aoe spam with tons of scourges + condi bunkers, and scrappers to convert every condi to boon, anything else does not work there... u guys need to play more wvw than hide in a mass zerg and 11111111.... seriously, don look at thing on the paper.. reality its diferent, and dont play only on overstacked servers, play across several timezones on several servers to actually understand what is happening.

Problem with scourge is in its class design, u guys aded more aoe on a game already saturated with aoe, shades need a diferent mechanic or be something else.Theres to much of everything, barrier, aoe, boon spam, boons corrupt, its a mess of skills design atm(IMO barrier should had been a guardian/FB barrier to protect allies , never on aoe class designed like scourge, nor gave it to other classes as well ...).Alot of skills arent rendered on the clients either, just invisible damage floating arround hitting everyhitng that comes to that zone.. i have a very decent computer and a good fiber conection actually.. still client has lots of hipcups when theres a massive aoe spam...

Players are still relaying way to much on stacking scourges reason tends to be a omni blob or 2 groups of 40/50 with mostly scourges/fb/scrappers/spellbreakers.Ohter WvW issue is the 50+ players blobs against small servers dont help meta as well due how broken and easy/effeortless aoe stackign works on this game... this is how WvW works, "big VS medium VS small", while smaller groups cap back stuff so the zerg server at that timezone can have more "content" to ktrain, its a awfull design.... it always was... i am still waiting for aliances...

On second note, how can u guys thinking changing rez skills while we have bloodscourge / healing scourges rezing in meta, and u guys want to "tweak" rez skills..? srly, w/o fix what is the issue of the pvp gameplay and larger pvp gameplay???

- If u want faster rez but without being OP make rez work like GW1(actually an hybrid system with gw1 and gw2 its not hard...), tweak the freaking racial skills, make racial skills into Elite skills that actually fits the class and the race as well, this would be decent in pvp as well, it would touch rez as u guys want and fix the super useless racial skills......

  • Fall damage traits can still be tweaked but they stay as fall damage traits, tweak them to actually fit the class the players is playing, fall damage traits are still important in the game, they just lack mechanics for what u guys introduced later.
  • Game is overburdened with aoe, some cleaves need to become single, some aoe need to be something else but less or diferent, and some very very few skills need to become larger strong 15-20 capped aoes on high CD.

On 3rd note, if post feels a bit blunt, sorry then but its 6-7years of waitting for a "decent ideology of balance" rather than make balance and a game to carry gimmicks and stacks vs less aoe spam groups.. gw2 atm is very faulty.

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@Robert Gee.9246 said:Necromancer

  • Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill.

are you saying we can commit suicide by using this skill? its going to both be useless and very funny to use at the same time lol.

editnope nvm. still gonna be too high of a cost tho. maybe life force instead of health? I don't get why necro's res is the only one that needs an associated cost with it. doesn't make sense.

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@"Robert Gee.9246" said:I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

I think you missed another..

^ Start at 7:18

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