Template interactions initial thoughts and POST YO LINKS \(o.o)/ thread — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Template interactions initial thoughts and POST YO LINKS \(o.o)/ thread

Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 29, 2019 in Mesmer

Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links. Remember to buy the free build storage in gem shop.

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    Still don't see how you lost anything. Unless you meant you are using different weapon sets in WvW, PvP and PvE. But weapon sets didn't auto switch anyway so it is still a gain.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    Still don't see how you lost anything. Unless you meant you are using different weapon sets in WvW, PvP and PvE. But weapon sets didn't auto switch anyway so it is still a gain.

    I gain nothing out of the system, only thing that changed is the fact that i have to change builds between pvp and pve, and after pvp ends im in pve with pvp build, if it puts me in combat its really annoying

  • @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    Still don't see how you lost anything. Unless you meant you are using different weapon sets in WvW, PvP and PvE. But weapon sets didn't auto switch anyway so it is still a gain.

    I gain nothing out of the system, only thing that changed is the fact that i have to change builds between pvp and pve, and after pvp ends im in pve with pvp build, if it puts me in combat its really annoying

    You gain the ability to share you builds and adopt others without having to manually copy all traits.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    Still don't see how you lost anything. Unless you meant you are using different weapon sets in WvW, PvP and PvE. But weapon sets didn't auto switch anyway so it is still a gain.

    I gain nothing out of the system, only thing that changed is the fact that i have to change builds between pvp and pve, and after pvp ends im in pve with pvp build, if it puts me in combat its really annoying

    You gain the ability to share you builds and adopt others without having to manually copy all traits.

    I had the ability to do that already, by typing.
    now i have ability to get kitten over by swamp of lab monsters becouse my pvp build is bad in pve.
    It might be me making builds like this in league but making build in gw2 from scratch ( trait wise ) takes me 10-15s max

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    Still don't see how you lost anything. Unless you meant you are using different weapon sets in WvW, PvP and PvE. But weapon sets didn't auto switch anyway so it is still a gain.

    I gain nothing out of the system, only thing that changed is the fact that i have to change builds between pvp and pve, and after pvp ends im in pve with pvp build, if it puts me in combat its really annoying

    You gain the ability to share you builds and adopt others without having to manually copy all traits.

    I had the ability to do that already, by typing.
    now i have ability to get kitten over by swamp of lab monsters becouse my pvp build is bad in pve.
    It might be me making builds like this in league but making build in gw2 from scratch ( trait wise ) takes me 10-15s max

    If you are able to change builds that fast without abusing a macro I commend your speed. But other people are not. Especially when you add in stat selecting.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

    Weapon skills don't go on cooldown, neither are any traited skill interactions even if utility slots do go on cooldown. Longer lasting effects make certain utility cooldowns minor inconvenience compared with the advantage given.

    In my opinion there are too many potential broken interactions affecting combat for this to not be reevaluated as soon as possible.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

    Weapon skills don't go on cooldown, neither are any traited skill interactions even if utility slots do go on cooldown. Longer lasting effects make certain utility cooldowns minor inconvenience compared with the advantage given.

    In my opinion there are too many potential broken interactions affecting combat for this to not be reevaluated as soon as possible.

    Weapon skills do go on cooldown last time I checked. Disabling skill 4 on one of your sets for torch's cooldown is an inconvenience, regardless of whether you get +1 second from prismatic. The only potentially broken thing right now is engie toolbelts and kits aren't having their cooldowns impacted at all.

    edit: I don't care if a guardian can put most of their bar on cooldown to gain quickness if mesmer doesn't have to get stuck on wells/signets every time it wants to give a meaningful amount of alacrity.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

    Weapon skills don't go on cooldown, neither are any traited skill interactions even if utility slots do go on cooldown. Longer lasting effects make certain utility cooldowns minor inconvenience compared with the advantage given.

    In my opinion there are too many potential broken interactions affecting combat for this to not be reevaluated as soon as possible.

    Weapon skills do go on cooldown last time I checked. Disabling skill 4 on one of your sets for torch's cooldown is an inconvenience, regardless of whether you get +1 second from prismatic. The only potentially broken thing right now is engie toolbelts and kits aren't having their cooldowns impacted at all.

    edit: I don't care if a guardian can put most of their bar on cooldown to gain quickness if mesmer doesn't have to get stuck on wells/signets every time it wants to give a meaningful amount of alacrity.

    Well somehow I'm able to torch 4 on a PU template and swap to two different weapons both with skill 4 off cooldown. Or cast staff 5 at feet and swap again with both other skill 5 off cooldown. Effectively I can use skills and trait synergies from a third weapon if its cast effects persist, while swapping template.

    It's been a long day so I apologise if being blunt about this and can appreciate your new freedom with chrono, but regardless I stand by the opinion this is going to be abused - just a matter of time to see how creative people get with different classes and groups.

    The one way I could accept this as a feature is if all active effects and placed skills (aoes, traps etc) were instantly dispelled on template swap - which could solve both our issues.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2019

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

    Weapon skills don't go on cooldown, neither are any traited skill interactions even if utility slots do go on cooldown. Longer lasting effects make certain utility cooldowns minor inconvenience compared with the advantage given.

    In my opinion there are too many potential broken interactions affecting combat for this to not be reevaluated as soon as possible.

    Weapon skills do go on cooldown last time I checked. Disabling skill 4 on one of your sets for torch's cooldown is an inconvenience, regardless of whether you get +1 second from prismatic. The only potentially broken thing right now is engie toolbelts and kits aren't having their cooldowns impacted at all.

    edit: I don't care if a guardian can put most of their bar on cooldown to gain quickness if mesmer doesn't have to get stuck on wells/signets every time it wants to give a meaningful amount of alacrity.

    Well somehow I'm able to torch 4 on a PU template and swap to two different weapons both with skill 4 off cooldown. Or cast staff 5 at feet and swap again with both other skill 5 off cooldown. Effectively I can use skills and trait synergies from a third weapon if its cast effects persist, while swapping template.

    It's been a long day so I apologise if being blunt about this and can appreciate your new freedom with chrono, but regardless I stand by the opinion this is going to be abused - just a matter of time to see how creative people get with different classes and groups.

    The one way I could accept this as a feature is if all active effects and placed skills (aoes, traps etc) were instantly dispelled on template swap - which could solve both our issues.

    That's a bug not a feature. I sometimes get that, and sometimes I don't. Only the heal slot seems to be properly transfering cds. For instance expending two jaunts and swapping builds to a different elite will put the new one on a 60 second cooldown.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    Wait, can you switch anywhere out of combat in wvw?

    I hope it's restricted to spawn only or we're really going to end up in "Build Wars".

    I certainly don't. Mesmer is pressured into running non-combat worthy utility more than most other classes. The build we use to perma alacrity on siege is far worse than the renegade counterpart. This is a massive QoL buff.

    I have been informed by a friend who's guildmate I also play with occasionally (a solid guardian) that they can prebuff themselves in a different template to 30s quickness before swapping and engaging in a different spec, eg DH.

    It's possible to do things like engage in torch stealth with PU before swapping template to two completely different weapons such as pistol and greatsword.

    This is scratching the surface to what kind of insane pre combat setup or out of combat instant swap to hardcounter potential there could be.

    I'm not concerned with people being able to pre-use skills when they put their slots on cooldown.

    Weapon skills don't go on cooldown, neither are any traited skill interactions even if utility slots do go on cooldown. Longer lasting effects make certain utility cooldowns minor inconvenience compared with the advantage given.

    In my opinion there are too many potential broken interactions affecting combat for this to not be reevaluated as soon as possible.

    Weapon skills do go on cooldown last time I checked. Disabling skill 4 on one of your sets for torch's cooldown is an inconvenience, regardless of whether you get +1 second from prismatic. The only potentially broken thing right now is engie toolbelts and kits aren't having their cooldowns impacted at all.

    edit: I don't care if a guardian can put most of their bar on cooldown to gain quickness if mesmer doesn't have to get stuck on wells/signets every time it wants to give a meaningful amount of alacrity.

    Well somehow I'm able to torch 4 on a PU template and swap to two different weapons both with skill 4 off cooldown. Or cast staff 5 at feet and swap again with both other skill 5 off cooldown. Effectively I can use skills and trait synergies from a third weapon if its cast effects persist, while swapping template.

    It's been a long day so I apologise if being blunt about this and can appreciate your new freedom with chrono, but regardless I stand by the opinion this is going to be abused - just a matter of time to see how creative people get with different classes and groups.

    The one way I could accept this as a feature is if all active effects and placed skills (aoes, traps etc) were instantly dispelled on template swap - which could solve both our issues.

    That's a bug not a feature. I sometimes get that, and sometimes I don't. Only the heal slot seems to be properly transfering cds. For instance expending two jaunts and swapping builds to a different elite will put the new one on a 60 second cooldown.

    Utilities and elite slots do share cooldown as far as I'm aware. But all combinations of weapon skills, as long as you swap to a different weapon type, the new weapon skills will be off cooldown.
    If this is a bug then they need to fix it asap.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not a bug and certainly doesn't need fixing. Why should using staff #5 mean that u can't use pistol #5 when you weapon swap? That's nonsensical. If you have staff/staff then using any weapon skill will have it's cd transferred when you swap to the same weapon- can you imagine the ridiculousness of skill slots sharing a cd with ele for example? If i have 2 templates which share weapons/utilites, i'd expect that using a skill in one template would affect the cd of the same skill in a different template if i swapped them.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Funky.4861 said:
    It's not a bug and certainly doesn't need fixing. Why should using staff #5 mean that u can't use pistol #5 when you weapon swap? That's nonsensical. If you have staff/staff then using any weapon skill will have it's cd transferred when you swap to the same weapon- can you imagine the ridiculousness of skill slots sharing a cd with ele for example? If i have 2 templates which share weapons/utilites, i'd expect that using a skill in one template would affect the cd of the same skill in a different template if i swapped them.

    I know it's not a bug...

    The problem is before, changing gear stats, skills, traits, weapons etc took a certain amount of time. Aside from the odd change or swapping in and out a weapon (eg focus for swiftness on 4), there isn't time for the kind of deep customisation that is now possible at the touch of a button.
    This allows certain comboing and prebuffing to a fairly significant extent between more than one build at the start and also if managing to kite in and out of combat.

    One solution I think that could solve the problem is simply adding a flat 1 minute cooldown to Equipment Template swap, and maybe 30s cooldown to Build Template swap in wvw.

    Ideally though it would be amazing if there was a swap cooldown that varied with the number of changes in gear/traits/skills - so a single different trait could cause a 5s swap cooldown, but an entire change of gear stats could push it up to 1 minute etc. But I think that is way too complicated a system.

    So yeah, just like they added 5 second cooldown to warclaw mount/dismount, there should be a similar cooldown to template swap in wvw - the length is up for argument.

    Pve of course it doesn't matter.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    WvW is pve as far as dev's are concerned, and i'm strongly against any such cd in swapping templates/traits/whatever. Before the change, our raid squad would have a little break as people swapped gear and traits from say DH to condi quickbrand; now, it's just a couple of clicks and we're good to go. I don't want a return to hanging around while other people change their char to suit the encounter, and anet seem reluctant to split wvw from pve (i assume the effort:reward ratio is a loss).

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they can add a cooldown to warclaw compared with pve mounts, I'd imagine it's not too much of a stretch to have some kind of similar limitation with template swap in wvw.

    Aside from the legendary gear issues with swapping stuff within a template resetting and removing upgrades etc, I don't mind if as before players want to modify gear/traits/skills manually at any time out of combat. But when things like for example power thief runs into I dunno, a bunker or hardcounter of some sort - ports out of combat, instant swap and immediately reengages on condi (a process that may take more time before, but now can be done without giving the opponent much breathing room) - I find this, and other of the many possibilities template swap allows, to not be healthy for the game. Especially as it incentivises having several templates ready to be optimal, to counter different things. Even if at this point one can say the game mode has already been far from healthy, I don't feel it's helping the situation.

    Anyway I think it's just a matter of time before the true potential of template swapping in wvw is taken advantage of, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens - hopefully the impact remains small and I am wrong.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    They added a cd to mounts in pve long before they even added warclaw; you used to be able to instantaneously swap say from bunny to griffon (even mid-air) but that was too much apparently so they added a cd to remounting which ended that possibility. For the warclaw, they just extended the duration. As long as wvw doesn't become template wars, we should be fine, as anyone can swap builds in seconds.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Funky.4861 said:
    They added a cd to mounts in pve long before they even added warclaw; you used to be able to instantaneously swap say from bunny to griffon (even mid-air) but that was too much apparently so they added a cd to remounting which ended that possibility. For the warclaw, they just extended the duration. As long as wvw doesn't become template wars, we should be fine, as anyone can swap builds in seconds.

    Oh, thanks I wasn't aware of that regarding mount cooldowns.

    For templates - still can do in less than a second now what could take many more seconds if changing all gear pieces, traits and weapons. As said I'm planning at least one template for dedicated PU stealth stack cheese for engage (precast skills etc and swap before in combat) or teleport out of combat and disengage, a second template for high power burst + mobility to unload and get back out of combat, and third hybrid bruiser. Possibly more depending on the people I play with and what synergies - eg a friend can keep someone in combat while I pull out swap and jump back in for burst kill etc.

    So personally I feel pressured to buy more Equipment Templates, but going to wait in the hope that there is a sale before the end of the year, or that Anet to some extent disincentivise this kind of play.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    That's the very thing- those who would benefit the most from templates are feeling pressured into buying more (at quite a high price imo) whereas those who only have 1 or 2 builds per char basically get a freebie and are less likely to explore other game modes/build diversity on that char because their existing 'template' will be overwritten.

  • Daniel Handler.4816Daniel Handler.4816 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2019

    @Funky.4861 said:
    It's not a bug and certainly doesn't need fixing. Why should using staff #5 mean that u can't use pistol #5 when you weapon swap? That's nonsensical. If you have staff/staff then using any weapon skill will have it's cd transferred when you swap to the same weapon- can you imagine the ridiculousness of skill slots sharing a cd with ele for example? If i have 2 templates which share weapons/utilites, i'd expect that using a skill in one template would affect the cd of the same skill in a different template if i swapped them.

    Utility slots resetting is not intended because they don't do that normally under manual reselection.
    As for weapons. Whether it is a bug or not is uncertain, but it will definitely be fixed

    Base guardians using four symbols, tomes and traps is not going to be tolerated by Anet. As the song says and @Curunen.8729 is implying "that kitten's broken."

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    They made the system fully knowing this would happen. IF they change it, they are cowardly hypocrites.

  • @Funky.4861 said:
    They made the system fully knowing this would happen. IF they change it, they are cowardly hypocrites.

    They obviously did not. They have consistently failed to test things before they go live this is not different.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    I disagree Daniel H; that's the basic functionality of the template system. The** whole idea** is that you can swap builds and gear near-instantaneously, and SnowCrows did exactly that in the video above. The question now is, will Anet admit they screwed-up and lose credibility or will they double-down and 'The show must go on'?

  • @Funky.4861 said:
    I disagree Daniel H; that's the basic functionality of the template system. The** whole idea** is that you can swap builds and gear near-instantaneously, and SnowCrows did exactly that in the video above. The question now is, will Anet admit they screwed-up and lose credibility or will they double-down and 'The show must go on'?

    Well no. They've already admitted some mistakes. For instance

    Fixed an issue in which the revenant's legend-swap cooldown was shorter than expected when out of combat.

    But they are triaging. Next issue is probably the enforced order of legend skills can cause skill icons on your bar to map to the wrong skill.
    It unlikely a Revenant was even used during internal testing if there was testing at all. Nor was Mesmer's mimic ability. Etc.

    The whole idea of templates is to swap before combat. It is not to give toolbelts or classes with more persistent skills, an advantage over other classes. I would expect a 5 second global cooldown or something similar to be added.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed... The thing is, every class can do this- there is nothing unfair about it at all. I doubt i'd have the skill to use this effect to the max, but i don't want others who can to be held back by a whingey forum thread. This is not an issue anywhere else in the game apart from wvw, but as i've said many times, everyone can do it- the playing field is level.

  • @Funky.4861 said:
    Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed... The thing is, every class can do this- there is nothing unfair about it at all. I doubt i'd have the skill to use this effect to the max, but i don't want others who can to be held back by a whingey forum thread. This is not an issue anywhere else in the game apart from wvw, but as i've said many times, everyone can do it- the playing field is level.

    Everyone has traps and persistent aoe fields? Sure.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    Name me one class which doesn't? Every profession has access to those.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:
    Switching to builds that need to hide/portal in WvW is easier (will edit in link) Mimic is very bugged when using it and swapping to builds that don't have it and back. And Chrono is definitely not getting CS dry shatter back. Also. Gimme dem links.

    we have 2 builds, and since I play both PvE and PvP its a net lose for me. templates succ, big gem sink not gonna pay for them, thank you very much!

    You have three! Remember to buy the free one in gem shop! Net gains!

    I ment the weapon set ones, only got 2.
    since i run both cmira power chrono/core. an supp chrono those are at least 4 different weapon sets. :/

    One question, why is it worse to have now 2 gear templates than none like before? In the worst case you have one set for pvp and one for pve, which is just like it was before (ok, you have to manually press 2 buttons to swap from pve to pvp gear, but cmon, thats not hard)

    In the best case you have 1 pve character with now 2 gear templates and 3 traits/skill temps and 1 pvp characer with 2 gear and 3 trait/skill templates

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    The gear templates are not 'better' than what we had before; they are just unlinked from the game mode they used to be bound to. So now we choose our gear independent of what mode we play- beforehand the game used the gear and build you used last in each mode. As i rarely wvw and avoid pvp, it's a net benefit for me.

    However, if you uneqip gear, the 'template' does not remember what it contained before you emptied it. This isn't such a big deal with ascended-tier and below gear, as their stats can't change without going to the mystic forge/using a bloodstone capacitor etc, but with legendary gear it's a pain in the behind to have to reselect the stats/infusions/sigil/rune every time you use it for it's intended purpose- to change stats anytime out of combat.

  • @Funky.4861 said:
    The gear templates are not 'better' than what we had before; they are just unlinked from the game mode they used to be bound to. So now we choose our gear independent of what mode we play- beforehand the game used the gear and build you used last in each mode. As i rarely wvw and avoid pvp, it's a net benefit for me.

    However, if you uneqip gear, the 'template' does not remember what it contained before you emptied it. This isn't such a big deal with ascended-tier and below gear, as their stats can't change without going to the mystic forge/using a bloodstone capacitor etc, but with legendary gear it's a pain in the behind to have to reselect the stats/infusions/sigil/rune every time you use it for it's intended purpose- to change stats anytime out of combat.

    Gear refers to equipment. They were never bound to a game mode. We had two weapon sets and had to check at the start of PvP matches the second wasn't accidentally the wrong one.

    Now you can confirm what you are wearing, including its stats, with one click.

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    They were absolutely bound to the game mode- can you explain why my gear and build changed completely when i entered wvw or pvp from a pve map before templates were introduced?