Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival

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  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @misterman.1530 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Can you kill yourself with Signet of Undeath's active?
    No. Health is a resource similar to Initiative or Adrenaline. The skill will simply be greyed out and uncastable if you don't have the required health cost.

    Can you explain why the Necro is the only class that has many skills and traits that when triggered can damage or apply a ton of conditions on the necro itself? How is this, in any way, a fair design? I can honestly design a build that, when I cast skills, the necro can pretty much commit suicide without ever having been damaged by an NPC or another player. Is this actually "by design"?

    Don't fight this aspect of it! I want to pay life for skills! I just want those skills to have an extremely strong pay off for doing so! I want the necromancer to have traits that are influenced by life sacrifice! I want this to be meaningful. At the moment it seems strange because necromancer is a mechanics graveyard...

    What bother me most is that those "sacrifices" don't come with enough "power" to keep up or even outclass professions that don't sacrifice anything. All in all, the return on investment of all necromancer's skills that involve sacrifice is and have always been low.

    The necromancers can self bleed, self poison... etc. Why is there no trait that make him deal more damage when he is affected by self-ailment? They intend to put a health cost on signet of undeath, they could at least add a nasty aoe fear for this sacrifice.

    I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

  • Now to think about it...would it be possible to make Toss Elixir-toolbelt skills to have extended range if you have Mortar kit slotted/equipped? That would be a fancy little extra interaction.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:
    Why? what is the point in all of this? Why not focus on actual balance issues like druids and chronomancers..

    I don't see anything wrong with druids after all the nerfs.

    The fact no one uses them outside of raids and maybe fractals says different.

    People use them in WvW too.

    In the time i've played WvW i've not seen any.

    I use it and I see it used a lot, you might not of realized you'd seen it because its not something that has a huge tell.

  • @Le Gros Georges.2984 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    I think you missed another..

    Both glider and mounts are allowed in this jumping puzzle, and there are skritts NPCs that will revive you if you die.

    No you lose the qualification when you use them but I don't know if the traits are really needed ..

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Hey folks,

    • Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

    I understand that the lifeforce gain is a buff, but please keep in mind that these changes you're making to necros do not carry over well to the sPVP sphere, where less people die per instance and lf is not constantly topped off. It seems like these balance changes over the last few iterations geared toward necro presume that it constantly has a large HP pool to work with.

    The fact that there is no way to reduce their recharge on spectral skills after a particular balancing instance, and the shaving of passive and active health and life force gain to power oriented reapers in particular makes necro play painful in smaller groups, especially groups where thieves are free to harass them if they are unaccompanied.

    I don't want to presume, but all these balancing directions for necro are making it weaker and weaker in spvp. The only thing holding them in very baseline viability now is Rune of Speed as far as sPvP is concerned. Please pay careful attention to how necros perform in a less volatile environment and make sure they can spec to survive on their own should they be attacked 1v1 or in a small group, where they will invariably be focused.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    hmm just when i was about to complain that the Noblesse Oblige mastery seems not to be working, cause it sure feels like revive speed is slower than it was before this was introduced...

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    Will we ever get out of open Alpha testing? Why are these changes constantly happening, if the skills were fine to go live with? This is what I mean by open Alpha testing. You make changes to skills/traits once thought to be acceptable. This is NOT balance, this is throwing darts and hoping for the best. Seriously, this is driving players away. They have lost faith in the devs ability to create a stable game. My only conclusion as to why this is happening is your testing is flawed or far too short. Enough already. Removing fall damage from Mesmers... you might as well drop Chronomancer and tell everyone "Get good at jump puzzles cause Mesmers have walked away from the game. Sorry you aren't co-ordinated enough, there is always chutes and ladders. Oh, you're disabled, wow that's too bad, we can't help you. Best of luck to you".

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Opal.9324Opal.9324 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm really going to miss the fall damage traits in WvW. Tricking enemy players into jumping to their deaths is hilarious.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Le Gros Georges.2984 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    Hello. Would you consider adding it to the Not So Secret jumping puzzle as well? This is already one of the least forgiving JP in the game, and while it's not necessarily a game changer for the people climbing, it's very valuable to the people making portals for those who struggle to reach the chest, or worse, the diving goggles. In other words, keeping fall damage reduction in this JP would mostly help those who help others.

    I understand you can probably use that last sentence to make a case for any jumping puzzle, but other hard jumping puzzles usually have some mechanic to alleviate the difficulty, like NPCs that will rez you when you fall, checkpoints, or an easy way to restart. The Not So Secret JP has none, and this is the only reason why I think you should make an exception for it.

    There's also the Dark Reverie - dying there, if there's noone around to ress you, for most players means giving up on the JP on that day. And yes, to the lesser degree this can be found in many other JPs as well.

    Basically, when considering the effect of fall damage reduction on players in JPs, devs need to consider not only players that do the JP correctly, but also those that make mistakes. At this point, it seems the latter have been completely ignored.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

  • @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    Not unless they do something with reapers base attacking speed which that in itself prevents the other 2 grand masters from being anywhere near viable or revert deathly chill back to making chill itself do damage in pvp only now that the modes are split to help the dps ramp a bit faster.
    Condi reaper wont be viable with a few extra stacks of 3 sec torments imo. Compared to current condi builds its not safe enough while applying its conditions and the conditional ramp is far too slow. (which it should be for everyone else but thats no the case atm)

    That said i highly doubt its going to be lesser control effects like chill and cripple that proc this kind of thing.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    I guess we have to wait and see really.

  • Just heard a rumor, that Fall Protection is being removed to be added back with a new elite spec? They have done this before. I seem to remember Thief had it, then it was removed and added to the elite spec? If this is true, check please.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • cherrycola.3127cherrycola.3127 Member
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    Thank you for addressing the feedback! But, uh... I don't think you understand how bad I am at jumping puzzles.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @cherrycola.3127 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    Thank you for addressing the feedback! But, uh... I don't think you understand how bad I am at jumping puzzles.

    This is exactly why I am a Mesmer.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i liked these changes... continue with them without a blink.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    Not unless they do something with reapers base attacking speed which that in itself prevents the other 2 grand masters from being anywhere near viable or revert deathly chill back to making chill itself do damage in pvp only now that the modes are split to help the dps ramp a bit faster.
    Condi reaper wont be viable with a few extra stacks of 3 sec torments imo. Compared to current condi builds its not safe enough while applying its conditions and the conditional ramp is far too slow. (which it should be for everyone else but thats no the case atm)

    That said i highly doubt its going to be lesser control effects like chill and cripple that proc this kind of thing.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    I guess we have to wait and see really.

    If it does procs off of soft CC then Shroud5 -> Shroud4 will put out several stacks of torment along with poison and bleed if traited. But yes, I doubt that they will do this as well. Which is sad because just tacking this onto all hard CC does not do much for Necro beyond the current implementation of this trait.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Falconwing.8105 said:
    I have a suggestion for WvW fall damage. Why not create a new upgrade line like you did for gliding and the warclaw? Have it tier up to different amounts of fall damage resistance and have the final tier be a CC effect like what Warrior currently has. It seems to me that this would be an effective way of keeping the mechanic in WvW without adding it to traits or skills.

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    I have a suggestion for WvW since it is very needed there only. Rather than completely deleting the trait effects, move the effects into a new WvW Mastery, and each profession gets their respective effect after acquiring it. Of course they keep their current cooldowns and all.

    Agree, if we could get the fall reduction put into the WvW abilities that would resolve it being removed for WvW. Doesn't really impact EBG players but it does ABL/DBL players.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • So, during the NPE they merged the fall-damage traits into other traits to make things simpler.

    Now they're too complicated because they have too many lines of text...

    I'm not much into the competitive aspect of anything; I like having these fall damage traits because, even with glider and mounts, I enjoy having options available to me for general map navigation, just for playing around in the world. I really, really like having these traits available. I'm very much against this change as stated, and the only acceptable rectification I could foresee is if it's immediately followed with something like attaching the fall damage reduction to a Central Tyria mastery (like the Pact Commander line).

    💣💣💣 Look buddy, I'm an Engineer. That means I cause problems. 💣💣💣

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Traveller.7496 said:
    The "meta" won't adjust any to the fall damage changes to WvW. I have no idea what that even means. The builds that use these traits are not "meta", they are very niche, but people still use them. The whole comment reeks of a non-answer to me, kinda like "no one here even thought anyone would use those, we're changing it and that's final" but they just won't want to say it outright.

    Yes I use fall damage traits a lot on Thief and less so on warrior. Thief has a lower health pool and relies on dodges a lot and very often fights on walls, edges of cliffs and the like where you can dodge off the wall by mistake. It also a bait used against those not specced for it who might pursue down a cliff thinking they can finish you. There are all manner of places this useful in WvW.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

  • @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

  • Fall damage reduction is pretty much mandatory for me here in Australia (and I suppose other high ping/lag areas) when doing JPs.
    The problem is that you are rarely where you seem to be and many times I press jump only to watch my char run over the edge. Most times you just have to guess and without FDR it would make JPs incredibly difficult and tedious.
    Yes their optional, but not really when collections are tied to them.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    While fall damage reduction traits were useful when the game first launched we feel that they are currently over-complicating trait descriptions in a post-glider/mount world. Falling damage reduction is already pretty niche and in the past we have added additional functionality to make them more generally useful. However for most of these traits, that bonus functionality eventually became the main reason to take the trait. At this point we felt it just makes more sense to remove the fall damage portion, which leaves some design space if we want to buff these traits in the future.

    Sorry, this is not a reason to remove something. "It took too much space in the description..". Seriously, you had a meeting and actually voiced that as a valid reason for removal? If I was sitting there I would not have taken you seriously. It ate nothing, hurt nothing, cost nothing and you said remove it. I'm at a real loss for seeing any logic here. If there was an exploit, something. But for 7 years in one form or another it was fine. Sorry not buying the reason. It seems made up and self serving. Many in game think the game is headed for EOL. If this is the sign of things to come, maybe it is time to sunset it. Let it go out with some dignity.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • SunCat.7839SunCat.7839 Member ✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    I simply don t get it. All you do here is killing the game completely ! all the nice flavours, all the nice skills , all the nice mechanics … every time someone has fun and great time with a character you just kill it, last one was scourge ! :(( … I keep asking myself what dark crawler you protect and worship inside the company who supports this slow inevitable death of the game? Personally on my list of best I can do: it was reviving my ally in pvp quicker then the enemy reviving his mate … it is kitten fun! it is sometimes a game turn … I don t find such in any other game … really guys stop killing our fun :((((

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've been following this thread and I wanted to respond to a some comments that have come up a few times:
    Fall damage reduction is important in WvW.
    We hear you that fall damage reduction and gauging whether a fall will kill you is something that is considered regularly as a part of WvW. However we would like to see how the WvW meta adjusts before making additional changes.

    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    While I am really glad to see evidence that you are indeed following the feedback, I think you may have missed the significance of some of what has been said.

    JPs:
    Removing fall damage not only impacts those who regularly run JPs & portal trains as mentioned earlier by @Treize.3578, but also impacts those who are unskilled at jumping puzzles, for whom this trait may mean the difference between restarting part way through, and having to jump back to the nearest unlocked waypoint and run back to the beginning and start all over again. While the first is frustrating, I can guarantee that the second is going to end up being the difference between retrying and giving up for some of those trying to learn.

    ^^^^ This. Having to WP and then get to the JP, only to fall and die, is extremely punishing. The increase in fall damage is only going to make this worse, because it likely will increase the rate of this happening (across the player base).

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @jamesg.7128 said:
    Fall damage reduction is pretty much mandatory for me here in Australia (and I suppose other high ping/lag areas) when doing JPs.
    The problem is that you are rarely where you seem to be and many times I press jump only to watch my char run over the edge. Most times you just have to guess and without FDR it would make JPs incredibly difficult and tedious.
    Yes their optional, but not really when collections are tied to them.

    And with the higher ping, not pressing long enough to register a jump at the server end and going splat because the server registered your character was running rather than jumping. Mechanics are finicky things with 250 ping, please don't make any changes that over-penalise players outside of North America.

    (And gah, holding the spacebar down for too long and having the kitten glider deploy, because 250 ping, and missing the next jumping point. Mostly that's not as bad as dying and coming back from the WP.)

  • edited November 12, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Le Gros Georges.2984 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    Hello. Would you consider adding it to the Not So Secret jumping puzzle as well? This is already one of the least forgiving JP in the game, and while it's not necessarily a game changer for the people climbing, it's very valuable to the people making portals for those who struggle to reach the chest, or worse, the diving goggles. In other words, keeping fall damage reduction in this JP would mostly help those who help others.

    I understand you can probably use that last sentence to make a case for any jumping puzzle, but other hard jumping puzzles usually have some mechanic to alleviate the difficulty, like NPCs that will rez you when you fall, checkpoints, or an easy way to restart. The Not So Secret JP has none, and this is the only reason why I think you should make an exception for it.

    There's also the Dark Reverie - dying there, if there's noone around to ress you, for most players means giving up on the JP on that day. And yes, to the lesser degree this can be found in many other JPs as well.

    I didn't talk about Dark reverie because I remember this one having only one hard jump, and that jump is so high that having fall damage reduction doesn't prevent death. It's been a while since I've done this JP the legit way though, I could be wrong.

    And although I don't think this is the kind of things Anet should encourage, the fact that you can reach the chests of this JP (and the one of Morgan's Leap) with mount tricks kinda makes a case for the "mount have made FDR obsolete" argument in Robert Gee's post (for this JP and this JP alone).

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can we have trait descriptions in teeny bopper shorthand in order not to over-complicate the trait descriptions in the next patch? XD
    I feel like it would help a lot and save some space.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

    The 'Similar to... ' section of Wiki is mixing and confusing some terms. For most of the time since release Control Effects were strictly defined and their icons have a consistent style of gray and white. It was only recently that Fear and Taunt were flagged (in software) as control effects with regard to trait and skill proc'ing.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

    The 'Similar to... ' section of Wiki is mixing and confusing some terms. For most of the time since release Control Effects were strictly defined and their icons have a consistent style of gray and white. It was only recently that Fear and Taunt were flagged (in software) as control effects with regard to trait and skill proc'ing.

    i mean if this trait really procs on cripple, chill, etc it would be a nice healthy boost for core necromancer but how limited will they make the trait due to the elite specs which might make it not so much a healthy boost lol

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

    The 'Similar to... ' section of Wiki is mixing and confusing some terms. For most of the time since release Control Effects were strictly defined and their icons have a consistent style of gray and white. It was only recently that Fear and Taunt were flagged (in software) as control effects with regard to trait and skill proc'ing.

    i mean if this trait really procs on cripple, chill, etc it would be a nice healthy boost for core necromancer but how limited will they make the trait due to the elite specs which might make it not so much a healthy boost lol

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    To all at Anet, your core players are walking away. Raiding guilds have imploded. Unless ending the game is your motivation, you are pulling threads that should not be pulled. This too will end in tears. If it does, please, let Tyria rest, she has suffered enough. What you're doing is proving humans will destroy Tyria, maybe Mordremoth was right.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

    The 'Similar to... ' section of Wiki is mixing and confusing some terms. For most of the time since release Control Effects were strictly defined and their icons have a consistent style of gray and white. It was only recently that Fear and Taunt were flagged (in software) as control effects with regard to trait and skill proc'ing.

    At the same time wording within traits and skills exist to differentiate between control effects and disabling foes, for instance Attacker's Insight on Spellbreaker.

    So we return to the question of which control effects count for this redone trait, all control effects, disabling control effects, or non-disabling control effects?

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    i mean if this trait really procs on cripple, chill, etc it would be a nice healthy boost for core necromancer but how limited will they make the trait due to the elite specs which might make it not so much a healthy boost lol

    Well if they do to it what they did to Dhuumfire, where Scourge has an ICD (5s WvW/PvP 1s PvE) but other specs do not then it would indeed be a healthy boost to Core Necro, and a healthy boost to Condi Reaper.

    I think this would be a VERY nice trait if this were the case.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Necromancer

    • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

    People have been focusing on your Signet of Undeath rework, but I fear this is being overlooked. WHICH control effects? Just hard CC or would soft CC count? Outside of Reaper there are not that many hard CCs available to Necro outside of fear, which this trait already covered. Warhorn has daze, and torch and Flesh Golem have knockdown.

    If it does include soft CC like immobilize, cripple, and chill, then expect massive stacks of torment unless there is an ICD.

    good question
    Better question why is this not just a lesser utility why is it nor merged with our "on heal" trait like many other professions have. Why is both this trait and Spiteful Renewal outliers when you look at the current other professions "on fall damage or on heal" style traits

    Im all for something more active than just triggering passive utilities but considering fears are high in cd and condi reaper is not really a thing and its the only other spec that provides additional CC thats not just fear im concerned that it wont be an effective trait option at all. It will be almost as un used as it was before while options 2 and 3 are still better choices both defensively and offensively for core, reaper, and scourge in general

    I mean ideally its probably gonna be the same as it was before not nearly as effective if its only really looking at fear you might get a few extra procs if you run warhorn or golem or something but still 3 seconds of torment aint saying much.

    Well if it procs on soft CC, then Condi Reaper can be a very real thing and very potent spec, but the amount of cripple that a Scourge can put out would this would make their condi overkill, hence my concern.

    I'd love this to trigger on soft CCs, but with or an ICD on scourge abilities like with Dhuumfire.

    Soft CC are not control effects. Check the Wiki for a list. The only real question is whether Fear and Taunt are included. They did not used to be Control Effects. Control effects are sometimes called hard CC, as you probably know.

    The term CC (crowd control) is a general catch-all for anything that reduces an opponent's freedom to take action and helps dealing with a crowd so its definition tends to be more flexible. A poison AoE area denial skill could be called crowd control in a looser sense if it causes players to avoid it like tear gas and water canons IRL.

    Insidius Disruption sounds like the old anti-stunlock trait Necro once had but may be better, or worse.

    "Insidius Disruption: When hit with a control effect, each of up to five opponents within 120 radius will receive 1 stack of Torment for 2 seconds. Each stack of Torment given costs 2000 health. 10 second internal cool down." <- It could be like that.

    Read further down the wiki page about non-disabling control effects, which are also control effects. Hence my question on their distinction.

    The 'Similar to... ' section of Wiki is mixing and confusing some terms. For most of the time since release Control Effects were strictly defined and their icons have a consistent style of gray and white. It was only recently that Fear and Taunt were flagged (in software) as control effects with regard to trait and skill proc'ing.

    At the same time wording within traits and skills exist to differentiate between control effects and disabling foes, for instance Attacker's Insight on Spellbreaker.

    So we return to the question of which control effects count for this redone trait, all control effects, disabling control effects, or non-disabling control effects?

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    i mean if this trait really procs on cripple, chill, etc it would be a nice healthy boost for core necromancer but how limited will they make the trait due to the elite specs which might make it not so much a healthy boost lol

    Well if they do to it what they did to Dhuumfire, where Scourge has an ICD (5s WvW/PvP 1s PvE) but other specs do not then it would indeed be a healthy boost to Core Necro, and a healthy boost to Condi Reaper.

    I think this would be a VERY nice trait if this were the case.

    Granted i dislike the idea of reaper heading back in the condition direction after all this work to try and force it into a power role but i mean i guess it could be.

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    what about Raids? Twisted Castle and Xera without falling damage might be bad

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've been following this thread and I wanted to respond to a some comments that have come up a few times:

    Stalwart Courage (Courageous Return) is definitely too strong.
    Talked this one over with Cal and we're going to split the protection duration in PvP/WvW to 1 second. We considered an ICD for this trait, but think it's more interesting without it so we will only add one if this split proves insufficient to balance it.

    1 sec is useless. And valor is only used in PvP, so what would be the point of a split for something not used at all in PvE.

    This needs.. redesign.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Robert Gee.924 Many in game are not looking for a reason to leave. They are searching for reasons to stay. Please, STOP. Are we passionate about the game? Hell yes. Otherwise you could nerf it to oblivion and we wouldn't care. Why is the disconnect getting bigger not smaller? Don't follow the playbook of another game studio that shall not be named. Just STOP.

    Dear Dwayna, I have played Guild wars since GW1's launch... What a long strange trip it's been.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • @misterman.1530 said:
    I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

    Please don't suggest better tradeoffs for the necros self ailments by saying you'd consider an unblockable, unremovable 5 second fear to be fair for the competitive modes.
    That's insane.
    Necros need better bang for the self ailments, yes. Especially the ones that come with traited consume conditions. But 5 seconds of fear that you cant block or remove isn't reasonable.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Just a comment as a Guardian main(pvp mostly). The suggestions are essentially 2 nerfs, 1 adjustment and 1 buff.

    That Valor buff isn't even close to enough to consider for self-sustain, especially since Valor is SUPPOSED the Guardian Self-sustain line. Honor is not only better at self-sustain but it even does so as for its teammates! This is crazy if you really think about it. I do appreciate the changes to move away such useless(on revive/kill) traits for everyone but this is messed up.

    Protectors Impact: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Protector's Restoration".Even though the prot on heal stays, It's still a nerf. How about looking at Ranger's on-heal trait? I'd take that one over Guardian's every day of the week.

    Signet of Mercy: Reduced recharge to 90 seconds in all game modes. Changed passive effect from granting 180 healing power (216 when traited) to granting 120 concentration (150 when traited). This is one of those I consider to be an adjustment, rather than a straight-up nerf. Concentration is useful even though some may argue Healing-Power is slightly better.

    Protective Reviver: This trait no longer increases revival speed and no longer grants boons on a successful revival. Fixed skill fact to show correct 3 second duration. Fixed a bug which prevented the recharge of Lesser Shield of Absorption from being affected by Stalwart Defender. Lesser Shield of Absorption now heals nearby allies when it ends. This trait now causes all versions of Shield of Absorption to revive allies by 15% when it detonates.**Straight-up nerf. Granted the revival speed is faster, the loss of boons is too much. So much sustain lost from a successful revival. **

    Courageous Return: This trait has been reworked and it has been renamed to "Stalwart Courage". It grants the guardian Protection for 3 seconds in PvE and 1 second in PvP/WvW whenever aegis on the guardian is removed due to blocking an attack.Good buff, dislike the change. It's better than before but as I've stated above, Valor is such a terrible self-sustain line in comparison to Honor. This miniscule adjustment won't change that.

    Thank you very much for your consideration,

    Arken

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    I really don't understand the new mentality to remove stuff from the game that's been there since the beginning. Does it hurt to have traits for reduced fall damage? No. Do people still use it even tho there's gliding and mounts? Yes. There are a lot of scenarios where gliding and mounts are disabled, including JPs, that a lot of players depend on this. If you plan to remove the traits, can you at least then reduce the fall damage overall to compensate? Same thing with the raise speed. Like i mentioned earlier, we have a core game trait that increases revive speed, and between that and the trait, today it feels slower than it was when it was released with HoT. Can we at least have these things permanently put in the game if you plan to remove the traits that gives us the option?

  • @YtseJam.9784 said:
    I really don't understand the new mentality to remove stuff from the game that's been there since the beginning. Does it hurt to have traits for reduced fall damage? No. Do people still use it even tho there's gliding and mounts? Yes. There are a lot of scenarios where gliding and mounts are disabled, including JPs, that a lot of players depend on this. If you plan to remove the traits, can you at least then reduce the fall damage overall to compensate? Same thing with the raise speed. Like i mentioned earlier, we have a core game trait that increases revive speed, and between that and the trait, today it feels slower than it was when it was released with HoT. Can we at least have these things permanently put in the game if you plan to remove the traits that gives us the option?

    ^^^This x 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @misterman.1530 said:
    I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

    Please don't suggest better tradeoffs for the necros self ailments by saying you'd consider an unblockable, unremovable 5 second fear to be fair for the competitive modes.
    That's insane.
    Necros need better bang for the self ailments, yes. Especially the ones that come with traited consume conditions. But 5 seconds of fear that you cant block or remove isn't reasonable.

    So..explain how one should be able to block or avoid fear in the first place? If the Necro sacrifices health, to the point it could be near death, then they should have something in return. An unblockable fear or an uninterruptible, non-corruptive (sic) block. Something.

  • @Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've been following this thread and I wanted to respond to a some comments that have come up a few times:
    Fall damage reduction is important in WvW.
    We hear you that fall damage reduction and gauging whether a fall will kill you is something that is considered regularly as a part of WvW. However we would like to see how the WvW meta adjusts before making additional changes.

    I need falling damage reduction for some jumping puzzles.
    Right now we think the only one that really needs it is Griffonrook Run because it integrates fall damage into the critical path (the red eggs restore health for this reason). We'll be adding fall damage reduction into the bomb buff as a result. We don't think this necessary for the other jumping puzzles at the moment but are open to adding it as the need arises.

    While I am really glad to see evidence that you are indeed following the feedback, I think you may have missed the significance of some of what has been said.

    JPs:
    Removing fall damage not only impacts those who regularly run JPs & portal trains as mentioned earlier by @Treize.3578, but also impacts those who are unskilled at jumping puzzles, for whom this trait may mean the difference between restarting part way through, and having to jump back to the nearest unlocked waypoint and run back to the beginning and start all over again. While the first is frustrating, I can guarantee that the second is going to end up being the difference between retrying and giving up for some of those trying to learn. When saying that Griffenrook is the only JP that has falling built into the mechanics and therefore the only one you will put in falling damage mitigation, it seems that you then now intend for JPs to be more punishing for players to learn.

    WvW:
    I am really not sure how to take your answer here in wanting to see how the meta shifts before making additional changes. "additional" seems to indicate that you intend to go ahead and remove falling damage reduction from WvW despite near universal agreement in the part of those posting here that this is a bad idea. Fine. You are the developer, your call whether we like it or not. But in saying "how the meta shifts" you create for yourself a conundrum. Either the falling damage mitigation traits are commonly used enough for you to consider them meta, in which case you are intentionally removing a well used and clearly well liked feature, or else the traits are not used much, they are niche, in which case waiting for the "meta to shift" has no meaning at all.

    *Edited for clarity

    We are all rats in this developer's maze, to do with as he pleases. Now be a good rat and jump off this cliff if you want your cheese. You died? Too bad.

  • @misterman.1530 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @misterman.1530 said:
    I like that fear idea. How about an unblockable one that can't be cleansed - so it has to run its course? Say 5 seconds or something.

    Please don't suggest better tradeoffs for the necros self ailments by saying you'd consider an unblockable, unremovable 5 second fear to be fair for the competitive modes.
    That's insane.
    Necros need better bang for the self ailments, yes. Especially the ones that come with traited consume conditions. But 5 seconds of fear that you cant block or remove isn't reasonable.

    So..explain how one should be able to block or avoid fear in the first place? If the Necro sacrifices health, to the point it could be near death, then they should have something in return. An unblockable fear or an uninterruptible, non-corruptive (sic) block. Something.

    We can definitely figure something out for that but not 5 seconds of you absolutely being unable to control your character in a team oriented match. We need more counterplay avenues for things that are performing, not less in the opposite direction.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]