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ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?


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@Astralporing.1957 said:If you put your prices too high, you may easily end up with less money, because many people will just decide to not buy at all. For me, the current prices are definitely in that range.Right. I would have bought it for a tenth of the price at most, just to support Anet. But several hundred Euros just for a single feature? No way.I also don't buy characterbound storage upgrades like bag slots. They are just not worth the money, as far as I am concerned.

I honestly was looking forward to build templates, but before I pay that much money, I rather change everything manually like before.

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@Krzysztof.5973 said:

@"Obtena.7952"

Leaving feedback for EAnet is pointless. At last we agree on something.

When casuals , where whinnng about dps meters in Raids , you told them to simply avoid their own silly specs and use Benchmarked Specs (meta build - with huge amount of damage or utilities for the raids) , so they are not wasting every1else valuable time .

And now you are crying about the price ?For what ? Limiting build diversity ?You have already done that , for free "P

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Borrowing the expression from the automobile industry, we've been sold lemons; to the point that if they were in fact actual Vehicles there are laws in many states here in the US that prevent such sales or otherwise fine people for trying to sell them knowingly. Analogy ends here.

I get that they've already made several hotfixes to do the most important patch work to fix what we've been given, however the whole thing leaves much to be desired.

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I'm just hoping they fix the bugs, give sPvP its proper implementation (I thought it'd be quite straightforward but apparently it isn't; not knocking the devs here, I'm sure they're doing their best), and add a toggle to automatically change you into a specific build when you enter WvW/PvE/PvP.

I have no idea what to make of any of the monetization; I'm honestly not particularly stressed.

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The silence on this issue is disturbing. Either they are working out something wonderful or hoping we will forget and let it go. For me, the biggest issue is the blatant money grabbing direction NCSoft has taken Anet lately. It used to be we got one or two new things in the gem store a month. It was exciting. I used to think "Please let me hate the new item so I'm not tempted" LOL. Now, it's every week ... "Here's a new (newly skinned that is) shiney ... but it!" Yes, these things are cosmetic, but it doesnt take away from the obvious slope things are going down. Templates are QoL, not cosmetic. Something that used to be of concern and now is simply a means for milking the players. I'm heartbroken.

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here is the issue as I see it

I am willing to bet that the because of the nature of the code linking build and equipment would require a roll back and complete rework

Also the build storage are the only true templates and they are just for skills the rest are loadouts and the ability to save would make build storage not needed

the basic changes that people are asking for would take months to do, if not a year so the only real option would be a rollback to pre-template which means gemstore purchases would have to be refunded and that isn't going to happen.

So if it were, and I was in business for a long time I would do the following.

  1. let the feedback drag out as long as possible until most people give up
  2. decide which solution would be the easiest and that will most likely be a minor reduction in price and a give away of a few templates.

Code wise there is no way for them to make the changes we want, so I have resigned myself to accepting that this is the system they gave us and not expect any significant change. This has made me evaluate what I am willing to contribute to supporting this game and I decided personally I will never again buy a single Gem or convert gold to Gems.

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@"LadyHawk.5319" said:The silence on this issue is disturbing. Either they are working out something wonderful or hoping we will forget and let it go. For me, the biggest issue is the blatant money grabbing direction NCSoft has taken Anet lately. It used to be we got one or two new things in the gem store a month. It was exciting. I used to think "Please let me hate the new item so I'm not tempted" LOL. Now, it's every week ... "Here's a new (newly skinned that is) shiney ... but it!" Yes, these things are cosmetic, but it doesnt take away from the obvious slope things are going down. Templates are QoL, not cosmetic. Something that used to be of concern and now is simply a means for milking the players. I'm heartbroken.

These comments never make sense ... why is the silence disturbing? beacuse Devs are always coming out and arguing with players when challenged to do so? Uh, no ... completely the opposite in fact. They NEVER submit to these "Hey tell me NOW what I want to hear" threads. Silence should be everyone's expectation. You should be neither disturbed or surprised by it. Other than some second look at legendaries in another thread, what do you think they are going to tell you that you already know the answer to?

And the idea there is a money grab is comedic ... I guess you like monthly subs and don't consider those money grabs? Think about that. How is Anet grabbing your money by offering optional items?

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@"Obtena.7952" said: > And the idea there is a money grab is comedic ... I guess you like monthly subs and don't consider those money grabs? Think about that. How is Anet grabbing your money by offering optional items?

I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic. Effectively they had been in GW2 for WvW and sPvP prior to Oct. template build release (until they moved them to the new templates, taking away from anyone who plays more than one mode), GWs original has them, free. FFXIV has them, free. Even on the free trial you get them ... free. The list goes on.

And btw, most games that have a monthly sub give you frequent new playable content, store currency (e.g. 500 store currency a month) and other goodies. Don't get me wrong, I love GWs. I have played the game for 5 years and over 17k hrs.

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Templates may be basic for most games, but clearly Anet decided to take a different path with GW2 -- otherwise templates would have been available upon release. Templates weren't really needed until raids came out and the game seemed to get along just fine without them until that point. I haven't seen any requests for templates until HoT/raids came out and even then I recall most were wanting them built-on because they didn't want to trust a third-party application and risk getting banned.

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Indeed, not until HoT did the builds start to become more varied. Until that point we had Beserker, Rabid/Sinister maybe Assasins. HoT, followed by PoF brought so many stat combinations and, hence, build variations. As players go, ones exposure to 3rd party applications, aka Arc Templates, I believe is directly effected by the community the player played with. Some players were not aware of Arc Templates (or not aware that it was sanctioned by Anet; that there was no ban risk), while others were aware and proficiently used the application. But templates were and are beneficial to modes other than raids. Fractal, WvW, sPvP and Open World. Doing a Legendary Bounty as a DH and people are dying? NP, let me get out of combat and swap to my FB. Basically, once a player starts using them, most start enjoying the speed at which one can be flexible and that flexibility allows a player to more fully enjoy their game.

If a player used one build for Open World, Fractals, WvW, and sPvP (or maybe they don't play competitive), than templates will mean nothing to them. The new templates we now have will seem wondrous. And that is genuinely great. They are loving their game. But, if you use different builds for those modes and different builds within those modes, the new templates and investment the company expects the player to make in order to not experience retrogression in their game play is ridiculous. My guardian, alone, at her bare bones set up, has 5 basic gear stats: Beserker, Viper, Minstrel, Harrier, Marauder. That is not including the different variations of gear setups for each of those. That is just the basic. The same is for my Revenant, for my Elementalist, etc. There are hundreds and hundreds of other players in this huge, great game that are in the same situation. Pay up if you want to keep up.

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@LadyHawk.5319 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said: > And the idea there is a money grab is comedic ... I guess you like monthly subs and don't consider those money grabs? Think about that. How is Anet grabbing your money by offering optional items?

I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic.

Even if you consider them basic ... they are optional; nothing prevented anyone from having different builds and swapping them prior to templates ... or after templates. Yes they are nice and make swapping easier ... but you don't NEED them to do so.

The issue here is that you don't reasonably label something basic to justify your disappointment with the value of the service or the standard behaviour of the developer. The fact is that how you or anyone else regard the templates (oh see ... you're another person that bases their expectations on what they think should be) is irrelevant. It's a reasonable service to offer at a price. If you don't want it, don't use it.

The part I like is where you are clearly offended by Anet money grabbing ways by offering optional items for sale on the GS ... but the obvious alternative of a monthly sub is a more acceptable to you? That doesn't seem very honest if you think about it. Seems to me you haven't thought very hard about your views of how this game works as a business.

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I understand what you are saying. However, the entire quote is:

@"LadyHawk.5319" said:I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic. Effectively they had been in GW2 for WvW and sPvP prior to Oct. template build release (until they moved them to the new templates, taking away from anyone who plays more than one mode), GWs original has them, free. FFXIV has them, free. Even on the free trial you get them ... free. The list goes on.

And btw, most games that have a monthly sub give you frequent new playable content, store currency (e.g. 500 store currency a month) and other goodies. Don't get me wrong, I love GWs. I have played the game for 5 years and over 17k hrs.

I believe I gave examples games where templates are "basic".I believe I gave examples of how a monthly sub is not money grabbing (i.e., more frequent new content, store currency to spend)

“A conversation in which the two parties have different beliefs should never begin with the intention of converting the other party to your own beliefs. Every worthwhile conversation's goal should be to understand the other person's opinions and help them understand your own.” ― Emily Eskowich

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@Hannelore.8153 said:Have you ever considered that you're creating too much noise, some of it very angry, and there's no way any sane Human being would want to sift through all of that, especially when they likely aren't paid enough to do so on top of all their efforts ?

Companies are made of the people that work there, and alot of them are just trying to pay the bills. Have some empathy, and ArenaNet will likely communicate with the players more, but as it is the forums have become little more than anger, negativity and even borderline hatred. I'm a game developer myself and on our last project we had to shut the forums down because it was giving the other devs anxiety.

Would you really want to talk to someone who hates you ? Alot of these people aren't even buying anything.

I have spent real life money( euros ) in the gem store. I bought the game when it was 60€ and even bought the expansion( they were on discount but then again I bought the middle ones).

You are just making assumptions and YES, they are employes who have to pay their bills but they work for a company and said company has to know the unsatisfaction of their customers somehow. It won't drop into their chiefs by magic or xmas miracle. The unsatisfied customers must speak louder to make themselves be heard by the company independentment if it is of the employes or directly their chiefs.

This is not an utopic happy and idyllic world. You must STAND to prevail and flowers and rainbows are not gonna help you take more seriously.

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We have Ep1 coming next week so they will not deal with templates problem. Then we have to give them time to fix the bugs from EP1. Next on the list is wintersday, gotta add new things to the gemstore - no time for build templates. After that there's gonna be EP2 in January... At this point barely anyone remembers that there are some issues with the templates. Sometime soon they will release 4 more slots and call it a day :)

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@LadyHawk.5319 said:I understand what you are saying. However, the entire quote is:

@LadyHawk.5319 said:I don't know if the issue is not seen clearly here or this is just arguing the sake of doing so. Templates/loadouts are not "optional items" in games, they are basic. Effectively they had been in GW2 for WvW and sPvP prior to Oct. template build release (until they moved them to the new templates, taking away from anyone who plays more than one mode), GWs original has them, free. FFXIV has them, free. Even on the free trial you get them ... free. The list goes on.

And btw, most games that have a monthly sub give you frequent new playable content, store currency (e.g. 500 store currency a month) and other goodies. Don't get me wrong, I love GWs. I have played the game for 5 years and over 17k hrs.

I believe I gave examples games where templates are "basic".I believe I gave examples of how a monthly sub is not money grabbing (i.e., more frequent new content, store currency to spend)

That's unproven and relevance is questionable in THIS game. Monthly subs do not necessarily lead to more frequent new content because it's not necessarily the path to more revenue. Now ask yourself why we don't have monthly subs based on NOT making assumptions and what we see happening in not just GW2, but other games as well.

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