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Trailer for Whisper in the Dark Lore Discussion


Michram.6853

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I wonder if Jormag helped the Elder Races forge the bloodstone? What if the Elder Dragons and the Elder Races formed a truce when the ED's revealed that the DSD must flood the land in order to purge his torment? All of the terrestrial Elder Dragons were in on it. As part of the deal Jormag gave the races artifacts like the Sanguinary blade, Edge of Destiny etc. Could this be why Kralk was mad at Glint? She allowed the Margonites to be destroyed, in so doing rendering the Crystal Sea a Crystal Desert, preventing the cycle of torment resolution and forcing the DSD's hand?

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The Boneskinner is an interesting creature, I think I might know where it's from based on it's model and concept art but i'm not entirely sure. It clearly draws some inspiration from Native American legends concerning the Wendigos of the colder climates. For those uninitiated the Wendigo was a creature of myth who was cursed to forever consume the flesh of others and to never be full, mainly because it's body would always grow with the excess of whatever they devoured. The host of the Wendigo spirit would as a result be something of a paradox, at once it would be growing larger and stronger with age, but it would also always look like it was dying. Exposed ribs, empty stomach, lanky bone ribbed limbs.

Sometimes this might be more literal, the Wendigo in question might seem to be an actual walking corpse with a constant pallor of death as though it been left out in the cold. Often the Wendigo would share animalistic aspects whether those be fur, horns, a snout, or antlers. They might take on the visage akin to a deer, a wolf, or some other bestial animal. For this reason they are often described as giant skeletal merges of man and animal either walking upright or prowling like a beast. Elongated claws, sallow glowing eyes, and long tongues. Something you can see in the Boneskinners body, even the tongue can be observed when it's head splits open and it appears to vomit forth a nest of tendrils in it's throat.

The exact nature of the Wendigo can vary but they are all tied to the taboo of cannibalism, often to survive. But they can also be tied to a desire to conquer and hoard wealth or resources. In this way the legend served as both a cautionary tale and an emphasis on both cooperation and moderation that was needed for the survival of the tribe. When a person displayed these vices the spirits of the forest could flow into their body, hijacking their flesh and transforming them into a monstrous reflection of their inner evils, doomed to hunt down and kill their former loved ones.

Judging by the Boneskinner concept art it appears like the base creature for the Boneskinner was a charr, though it's body has long since 'evolved' past those easily recognizable features. Still if you wanted to create a creature that embodied the darker aspects of Charr society that we're exploring, the Wendigo spirit is a good choice for representing that insatiable bloodthirst, ruthlessness, and desire to conquer that they can exude. I am curious about that bone amulet around it's neck which appears to made of several different remains tied together. Did it make that for itself, or did someone put that amulet onto it?

I'm not a Native American, so feel free to correct me if I got any elements of the stories wrong, but that's what this appears to be drawing from.

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The reason why I love Tom Abernathy :D

https://twitter.com/Michram142/status/1194336729353854977

Me be like: okay, Aurene gonna save the dayHe be like: .... yikes. r u sure?

but then he wrote this really interesting post after I kind of compared A Bug in the System trailer and Whisper in the Dark one:

there's definitely some of that same horror movie vibe-but where ABitS turned into Cronenberg body horror, WitD's tone is more Blair Witch Project/Halloween by way of Stephen King.

Body horror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_horror

Blair Witch Project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blair_Witch_Project

To which I responded that he makes a good point, because ABitS trailer was more physical - thanks to the Scarab Plague, the experiments etc, this one is much more psychical - strange, creepy-unknown, when the stuff get just: AM I SANE YET?!

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@"Divine Monk.2401" said:Wasnt wolverine a spirit that was also consumed? I mean owl wasnt the only one if i recall.

Dolyak, Owl, Wolverine, and Eagle are the four that directly turned to fight off Jormag and delay the dragon long enough for the other spirits to guide the Norn south to safety.

Owl is confirmed dead/consumed, the other three are "unknown" as they haven't had a havroun for a long time. Shamans, but no Havroun.

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@"Arden.7480" said:The reason why I love Tom Abernathy :D

https://twitter.com/Michram142/status/1194336729353854977

Me be like: okay, Aurene gonna save the dayHe be like: .... yikes. r u sure?

but then he wrote this really interesting post after I kind of compared A Bug in the System trailer and Whisper in the Dark one:

there's definitely some of that same horror movie vibe-but where ABitS turned into Cronenberg body horror, WitD's tone is more Blair Witch Project/Halloween by way of Stephen King.

Body horror: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_horror

Blair Witch Project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blair_Witch_Project

To which I responded that he makes a good point, because ABitS trailer was more physical - thanks to the Scarab Plague, the experiments etc, this one is much more psychical - strange, creepy-unknown, when the stuff get just: AM I SANE YET?!

Lets temper things just slightly since as much as I enjoyed LS4Ep2 (the last good episode), it failed to take the promise of the trailer and bring that sense of horror into the story and the map. There were a few bits like the experimented creatures in the glass jars, but that was much more Metroid Prime just without the desolate atmosphere.

This is my ultimate trepidation with all these easy "Lovecraft" and horror terms tropes being thrown around by players and the writers - the writing team have yet to show they can skillfully weave it into a meaningful gameplay experience. The trailers are great and all, but so far dark fantasy has yet to be well translated here despite having all the ingredients and instead choosing to focus on some overpowered rainbow Dragon who has neatly taken all focus of the plot away from where the more interesting elements lay. The Scarab Plague and Joko being wasted is the prime example. And then whatever nonsense that last instance of the final ep in ls4 was meant to be about.

The prologue gave me cautious optimism with the atmosphere it carried through the instances, but there's a lot to prove with this narrative team given the ambitions and promise from trailers as strong as this one was.

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@"Kalavier.1097" said:I'm slightly curious if the bone-skinner is related to Jormag at all. It's got green glow, skeletal/undeadish looking theme.

The crazy part of my brain: "What if this is the demolished remains of a spirit of the wild?"

A fallen Spirit of the Wild seems very likely to me. It wouldn't need relation to Jormag either, as we do have a history of fallen Spirits of the Wild: Nulfastu, Earthbound.

That said, it has quite a few visual parallels to the Berserking Wendigos of GW1, except being undead looking and much, much larger. So I wonder if there's a relation to that GW1 sub-species, but altered. Like it's some sort of undead lich wendigo. It doesn't seem icebrood related at all, so I'm curious about its origins - only necromancy in the region I could think of would be the out of place Grenth statues in some Far Shiverpeaks dungeons, or Avaar the Fallen but he was just a typical necromancer (albeit one hell of a minion master, like Verata), and killed in GW1.

@Divine Monk.2401 said:Wasnt wolverine a spirit that was also consumed? I mean owl wasnt the only one if i recall.

Wolverine's fate is unknown. So is Ox's and Eagle's.

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@Loesh.4697 said:The Boneskinner is an interesting creature, I think I might know where it's from based on it's model and concept art but i'm not entirely sure. It clearly draws some inspiration from Native American legends concerning the Wendigos of the colder climates. For those uninitiated the Wendigo was a creature of myth who was cursed to forever consume the flesh of others and to never be full, mainly because it's body would always grow with the excess of whatever they devoured. The host of the Wendigo spirit would as a result be something of a paradox, at once it would be growing larger and stronger with age, but it would also always look like it was dying. Exposed ribs, empty stomach, lanky bone ribbed limbs.

Sometimes this might be more literal, the Wendigo in question might seem to be an actual walking corpse with a constant pallor of death as though it been left out in the cold. Often the Wendigo would share animalistic aspects whether those be fur, horns, a snout, or antlers. They might take on the visage akin to a deer, a wolf, or some other bestial animal. For this reason they are often described as giant skeletal merges of man and animal either walking upright or prowling like a beast. Elongated claws, sallow glowing eyes, and long tongues. Something you can see in the Boneskinners body, even the tongue can be observed when it's head splits open and it appears to vomit forth a nest of tendrils in it's throat.

The exact nature of the Wendigo can vary but they are all tied to the taboo of cannibalism, often to survive. But they can also be tied to a desire to conquer and hoard wealth or resources. In this way the legend served as both a cautionary tale and an emphasis on both cooperation and moderation that was needed for the survival of the tribe. When a person displayed these vices the spirits of the forest could flow into their body, hijacking their flesh and transforming them into a monstrous reflection of their inner evils, doomed to hunt down and kill their former loved ones.

Judging by the Boneskinner concept art it appears like the base creature for the Boneskinner was a charr, though it's body has long since 'evolved' past those easily recognizable features. Still if you wanted to create a creature that embodied the darker aspects of Charr society that we're exploring, the Wendigo spirit is a good choice for representing that insatiable bloodthirst, ruthlessness, and desire to conquer that they can exude. I am curious about that bone amulet around it's neck which appears to made of several different remains tied together. Did it make that for itself, or did someone put that amulet onto it?

I'm not a Native American, so feel free to correct me if I got any elements of the stories wrong, but that's what this appears to be drawing from.

Remember the Norn dying in the previous trailer? Maybe they are Braham’s former teammates who he abandoned. Maybe they had to resort to cannibalism as they wandered lost in the mountains?

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Kalavier.1097" said:I'm slightly curious if the bone-skinner is related to Jormag at all. It's got green glow, skeletal/undeadish looking theme.

The crazy part of my brain: "What if this is the demolished remains of a spirit of the wild?"

A fallen Spirit of the Wild seems very likely to me. It wouldn't need relation to Jormag either, as we do have a history of fallen Spirits of the Wild:
.

That said, it has quite a few visual parallels to the
of GW1, except being undead looking and much, much larger. So I wonder if there's a relation to that GW1 sub-species, but altered. Like it's some sort of undead lich wendigo. It doesn't seem icebrood related at all, so I'm curious about its origins - only necromancy in the region I could think of would be the out of place Grenth statues in some Far Shiverpeaks dungeons, or Avaar the Fallen but he was just a typical necromancer (albeit one hell of a minion master, like Verata), and killed in GW1.

After I posted I thought of that spirit lol. "What if he, or another managed to posses a body?" Cause wasn't the area next to Bjora marches the location of the destroyed/abandoned Norn town filled with hostile spirits? The Far shiverpeaks minotaur variants were quite interesting as well.

Maybe it's a mutually beneficial thing? Boneskinner drives people insane, which makes them easy prey to join the icebrood, so it's left alone? I'm curious of it's origins, and the wildlife situation of the region. We know that Orr was entirely Risen (wildlife, plants, and people), while the jungle had creatures and mordrem.

@Brycar.2651 said:Remember the Norn dying in the previous trailer? Maybe they are Braham’s former teammates who he abandoned. Maybe they had to resort to cannibalism as they wandered lost in the mountains?

They would've had plenty time to return to Hoelbrek by now, as Braham made the trek back ages ago himself.

Wendigo's in GW1 were somewhat related to minotaurs (or at least, were set as being the same race for certain effects).

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@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Kalavier.1097 said:I'm slightly curious if the bone-skinner is related to Jormag at all. It's got green glow, skeletal/undeadish looking theme.

The crazy part of my brain: "What if this is the demolished remains of a spirit of the wild?"

A fallen Spirit of the Wild seems very likely to me. It wouldn't need relation to Jormag either, as we do have a history of fallen Spirits of the Wild:
.

That said, it has quite a few visual parallels to the
of GW1, except being undead looking and much, much larger. So I wonder if there's a relation to that GW1 sub-species, but altered. Like it's some sort of undead lich wendigo. It doesn't seem icebrood related at all, so I'm curious about its origins - only necromancy in the region I could think of would be the out of place Grenth statues in some Far Shiverpeaks dungeons, or Avaar the Fallen but he was just a typical necromancer (albeit one hell of a minion master, like Verata), and killed in GW1.

After I posted I thought of that spirit lol. "What if he, or another managed to posses a body?" Cause wasn't the area next to Bjora marches the location of the destroyed/abandoned Norn town filled with hostile spirits?

Always was interested in that. The largest norn settlement we see in GW1, by a fair margin, but abandoned and haunted with no one around to tell the story. It would be interesting to see it and the vaettir make a comeback.

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@Loesh.4697 said:Judging by the Boneskinner concept art it appears like the base creature for the Boneskinner was a charr, though it's body has long since 'evolved' past those easily recognizable features. Still if you wanted to create a creature that embodied the darker aspects of Charr society that we're exploring, the Wendigo spirit is a good choice for representing that insatiable bloodthirst, ruthlessness, and desire to conquer that they can exude. I am curious about that bone amulet around it's neck which appears to made of several different remains tied together. Did it make that for itself, or did someone put that amulet onto it?

Missed this bit before, but I had a similar thought that it was based off of the charr rigging. I was thinking that they took a charr and made a new animation set for being on all four. However, others reminded me of the Vinetooth rigging (also used by Awakened Abominations) which seems more likely considering it. Lorewise, though, it could be a twisted charr.

@"Kalavier.1097" said:Maybe it's a mutually beneficial thing? Boneskinner drives people insane, which makes them easy prey to join the icebrood, so it's left alone? I'm curious of it's origins, and the wildlife situation of the region. We know that Orr was entirely Risen (wildlife, plants, and people), while the jungle had creatures and mordrem.

If the boneskinner is sapient, then all it really needs is to refuse Jormag's whispers to avoid corruption, and be a good enough hunter for the icebrood to not attack it.

On different topic than the boneskinner that's gotten everyone's attention, there's an interesting things of note:

We see multiple individuals glowing red. There's the Kodan duo strike bosses, but in the trailer there's also another kodan at 0:38 and again at 0:58, and in the release page screenshots, there is an oversized Snow Leopard Form norn as well as a wolf form norn. I'm very curious what this affect is, as so far it's fully unhinted at entirely.

Then the two new icebrood models. What's interesting about them is that they have a very similar glow as the above red glow, but it's blue. The same blue as the Icebrood Construct. In the trailer at 0:37 we see an old Icebrood model with this glow, and in the release page we have this guy who also appears inside the Icebrood Construct at 0:49 of the trailer.

And the few shots we got of vaettir, they have the same style of glow... but green. Most notable at 0:40 but also at 0:31. The Boneskinner is also hued green, but lacks this particular style of glow.

What's even more curious about these glows is that they're the same kind of effects as the new "Essence Manipulation" mastery which comes in traditional RGB colors.

And here's something I note about that mastery shot:

  • Red beam used against a green-glowing Vaettir.
  • Blue beam used against a red-glowing Kodan.
  • Green beam used against a blue-glowing Icebrood.

So it's a rocks-paper-scissors kind of setup using RGB color coordination by the looks of it. Evil spirits are green (necromancy?) - perhaps tied to the Boneskinner then who's also green - and are weak to the red beam. Evilized kodan/norn are red, and are weak to the blue beam (Icebrood essence?). Then the icebrood are blue, and weak to the green beam. Doesn't really play into the Primordus/Jormag weaknesses, so I'm rather curious what the essences are, but it seems related to why these kodan and norn are going berserk, what the Boneskinner is and how these Vaettir have remained uncorrupted in the Far Shiverpeaks.

Incidentally, this observation may give a hint to the nature of the Boneskinner as being related to vaettir. Either a very powerful vaettir, or perhaps indeed a fallen Spirit of the Wild like Nulfastu.

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The essences are listed on the episode page as being "Learn to collect the essences of resilience, valor, and vigilance, then target enemies’ weaknesses and hit them where it hurts. "

Resilience, Valor, and Vigilance, but we don't know what color is which one. I wonder, is there going to be another one of GW2's long running "immune to X colors, weak to Y color?" bit?

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Yeah, I saw those names. But I think there's more to it than just those names because it's hard to picture the enemies (particularly vaettir) being associated with any of those names. Which would imply that either the showcase was just coincidence to be a cycle, or there's more to it than just those names.

Or is it a case of "Use the essence that the enemy creature/person lacks"?

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Yeah, I saw those names. But I think there's more to it than just those names because it's hard to picture the enemies (particularly vaettir) being associated with any of those names. Which would imply that either the showcase was just coincidence to be a cycle, or there's more to it than just those names.

We got a little more detail about these essences, and the Vaettir's version of Valor, I think i'm starting to make sense of it though. The abilities these skills unlock like 'Shattered Psyche' and 'Night Terrors' don't sound like the benevolent forces each essence is named after. I think the idea is the essences are warped and corrupted into twisted versions of themselves. If you wanted to go further with my Wendigo comparison and even go so far as combine it with your ideas of the Spirit of the Wild, it stands to reason that a spirit might 'eject' the soul of their host in the same way as many Native American legends depict them. Further in addition to that the Spirit probably faced Jormag on it's rampage south and was corrupted in the process, which of itself shows great courage in the face of danger.

So in that sense the aberrations of the forest might embody a twisted bravery, which would fit nicely with Jormags ability to warp peoples vices and virtues to do it's bidding.

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@Loesh.4697 said:The Boneskinner is an interesting creature, I think I might know where it's from based on it's model and concept art but i'm not entirely sure. It clearly draws some inspiration from Native American legends concerning the Wendigos of the colder climates. For those uninitiated the Wendigo was a creature of myth who was cursed to forever consume the flesh of others and to never be full, mainly because it's body would always grow with the excess of whatever they devoured. The host of the Wendigo spirit would as a result be something of a paradox, at once it would be growing larger and stronger with age, but it would also always look like it was dying. Exposed ribs, empty stomach, lanky bone ribbed limbs.

Sometimes this might be more literal, the Wendigo in question might seem to be an actual walking corpse with a constant pallor of death as though it been left out in the cold. Often the Wendigo would share animalistic aspects whether those be fur, horns, a snout, or antlers. They might take on the visage akin to a deer, a wolf, or some other bestial animal. For this reason they are often described as giant skeletal merges of man and animal either walking upright or prowling like a beast. Elongated claws, sallow glowing eyes, and long tongues. Something you can see in the Boneskinners body, even the tongue can be observed when it's head splits open and it appears to vomit forth a nest of tendrils in it's throat.

The exact nature of the Wendigo can vary but they are all tied to the taboo of cannibalism, often to survive. But they can also be tied to a desire to conquer and hoard wealth or resources. In this way the legend served as both a cautionary tale and an emphasis on both cooperation and moderation that was needed for the survival of the tribe. When a person displayed these vices the spirits of the forest could flow into their body, hijacking their flesh and transforming them into a monstrous reflection of their inner evils, doomed to hunt down and kill their former loved ones.

Judging by the Boneskinner concept art it appears like the base creature for the Boneskinner was a charr, though it's body has long since 'evolved' past those easily recognizable features. Still if you wanted to create a creature that embodied the darker aspects of Charr society that we're exploring, the Wendigo spirit is a good choice for representing that insatiable bloodthirst, ruthlessness, and desire to conquer that they can exude. I am curious about that bone amulet around it's neck which appears to made of several different remains tied together. Did it make that for itself, or did someone put that amulet onto it?

I'm not a Native American, so feel free to correct me if I got any elements of the stories wrong, but that's what this appears to be drawing from.

The Wendigo is pretty much my favorite monster/myth/urban legend because it’s the only thing that actually unnerves me a bit. I feel slightly scared by it whereas other creatures are just cool to me. So I got kind of obsessed with it, I really hope we get some similar lore for the boneskinner. That would be just about peak epic IMO

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@Fenom.9457 said:

@Loesh.4697 said:The Boneskinner is an interesting creature, I think I might know where it's from based on it's model and concept art but i'm not entirely sure. It clearly draws some inspiration from Native American legends concerning the Wendigos of the colder climates. For those uninitiated the Wendigo was a creature of myth who was cursed to forever consume the flesh of others and to never be full, mainly because it's body would always grow with the excess of whatever they devoured. The host of the Wendigo spirit would as a result be something of a paradox, at once it would be growing larger and stronger with age, but it would also always look like it was dying. Exposed ribs, empty stomach, lanky bone ribbed limbs.

Sometimes this might be more literal, the Wendigo in question might seem to be an actual walking corpse with a constant pallor of death as though it been left out in the cold. Often the Wendigo would share animalistic aspects whether those be fur, horns, a snout, or antlers. They might take on the visage akin to a deer, a wolf, or some other bestial animal. For this reason they are often described as giant skeletal merges of man and animal either walking upright or prowling like a beast. Elongated claws, sallow glowing eyes, and long tongues. Something you can see in the Boneskinners body, even the tongue can be observed when it's head splits open and it appears to vomit forth a nest of tendrils in it's throat.

The exact nature of the Wendigo can vary but they are all tied to the taboo of cannibalism, often to survive. But they can also be tied to a desire to conquer and hoard wealth or resources. In this way the legend served as both a cautionary tale and an emphasis on both cooperation and moderation that was needed for the survival of the tribe. When a person displayed these vices the spirits of the forest could flow into their body, hijacking their flesh and transforming them into a monstrous reflection of their inner evils, doomed to hunt down and kill their former loved ones.

Judging by the Boneskinner concept art it appears like the base creature for the Boneskinner was a charr, though it's body has long since 'evolved' past those easily recognizable features. Still if you wanted to create a creature that embodied the darker aspects of Charr society that we're exploring, the Wendigo spirit is a good choice for representing that insatiable bloodthirst, ruthlessness, and desire to conquer that they can exude. I am curious about that bone amulet around it's neck which appears to made of several different remains tied together. Did it make that for itself, or did someone put that amulet onto it?

I'm not a Native American, so feel free to correct me if I got any elements of the stories wrong, but that's what this appears to be drawing from.

The Wendigo is pretty much my favorite monster/myth/urban legend because it’s the only thing that actually unnerves me a bit. I feel slightly scared by it whereas other creatures are just cool to me. So I got kind of obsessed with it, I really hope we get some similar lore for the boneskinner. That would be just about peak epic IMO

If you haven't read Algernon Blackwood's 'Wendigo' (originally written in1910 and just before Lovecraft had his work published), then I highly recommend it. It is quite unnerving. You can see the early inspiration for the horror of Lovecraft and contemporaries

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I wonder if the whispers aren't just in the Commander's head. What if Aurene is the one addressed here, especially when we hear: "They'll betray you?" Maybe redditors are right to think that the original icebrood trailer, in which Jormag declares, "You don't fear death", is addressed to Aurene, who Jormag considers nothing more than a "champion".

What if Aurene killed all of those charr at the Vigil outpost? Maybe something happened and she lost control of herself?

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