Let's Talk About PvP Balance

Sindrener.1592 · November 12, 2019

@Chaith.8256 said:
Heavy focus on skill splitting Engi, Ele, Revenant, Druid support skills until they're JUST good enough to where you can build around them in PvP and be part of a balanced metagame.
Nerf personal long-term sustain across the board until 1v1s when played optimally will end within 60 seconds of continuous brawling.

This, and another thing I wish they would do is reduce all mobility (long range leaps/movement skills) to actually make rotations matter more than it does now, even if you outnumber a certain class right now you can save a fight because of the crazy amount of mobility there is.

It might get fixed already by your idea to nerf sustain in the 1v1s that a +1 might matter more, I just wish mobility was brought down a notch, right now you can probably leap through a whole map with mobility skills which is just insane imo

blarghhrrkblah.3412 · November 12, 2019

@"Radagascar.6231" said:Thief:There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on ~~thief~~ anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

Psycoprophet.8107 · November 12, 2019

@blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:
@"Radagascar.6231" said:
Thief:
There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on

~~thief~~

anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

Yeah uve hit the nail on the head for the majority of nerf thief threads. players post nerf threads out of spite or ignorance towards a class that they find inherently annoying to fight or are a challenge rather than learn to play. I would bet if a huge majority of these posters tried thief they'd get destroyed so hard so fast but would still have excuses. This game attracts a lot of players who just can't fathom being beat by a better player.

Leonidrex.5649 · November 12, 2019

@blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:
@"Radagascar.6231" said:
Thief:
There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on

~~thief~~

anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their asses, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

Burnfall.9573 · November 12, 2019

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:
@"Radagascar.6231" said:
Thief:
There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)

Thieves were like this back when d/p dash and s/d acro were prevalent. Players still complained about "perma stealth" or "perma evade" thieves ruining their experiences etc. Eventually, they get nerfed to their present state and you see degenerate specs like s/d condi thief and actual perma evade staff thief appear. I feel like so many players here just blindly hate on

~~thief~~

anything when they don't even understand what they're playing against half the time. The worst example of this was when I actually got flamed by someone on the enemy team for playing condi thief when I was playing core s/d...

As a separate note though, can thief stolen skills get looked at? The power level between some of them is insane (eg consume plasma vs throw gunk).

I think mesmer and tif are on the similar boat, sinking, the more nerfs we get, the more degenerate builds we are forced to use. Such is life.Had a similar exp, was using power axe, and got called " condi abusing trash ".People need to seriously get educated before they make claims out of their kitten, I hate weaver with passion, But I have not made a single nerf comment or post.why? I have no bloody clue how they work, or what their streanghts or weaknesses are, Its meaningless if they are overpowered or not, untill i Know what they do, and how they tick, I will keep my trap shut when it comes to them.Forums would be so much better if everyone had this mindset.

The difference is that Thief Profession doesn't only effect one or few players but the majority of players including the game economy, its population and its financial economy

No other Profession effects all 3 except Thief Profession. Thief Profession is the main sole Profession for the economy decline, behind its population drop and most importantly for the game growth and its security

In other word, Thief Profession is the reason why guild wars 2 not being competitive, healthy and prosering

The better mindset is to either delete Thief Profession or to completely redesign it!!

-You want to have better reason to be mad, be mad to why the lesser of these two has not happen within the 7 years and so forth-

I'm sure the majority of the community including myself would obligate in welcoming Thief Profession redesign as a new beginning

ZDragon.3046 · November 12, 2019

@"Radagascar.6231" said:Fundamental Changes:
Condition Damage:Someone touched on it already in this thread, and I'd like to highlight it again. DoT effects should not have the same level of burst as power dmg. It is completely asinine that any of the condition specs can apply 10+ conditions in a miniscule amount of time and that those conditions put a comparative amount of offensive pressure as say a power burst rotation. There should be SOME distinction between the amount of damage done by a condition "rotation" and a power rotation.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS SOOOOO MUCH THIS. It does not help that alot of professions who have this kind of power have more sustain that power builds do as well.

Condition Cleanse:Having said what I did about condition damage is necessarily tied into condition cleanse. If condition damage is consequently nerfed as a result of fundamental balance changes, cleanse should then also be nerfed. The point is not to remove condition specs from the game entirely - it should be to define them differently than a power spec. Condition cleanse being as strong as it is (for some classes at least) will likely push out condition damage specs from any semblance of being meta if they, too, are not nerfed relative to condition damage.

I agree

Perma-Anything:Having the ability to max out on a boon, a stealth, etc. is not something that is healthy for the game. It promotes extreme builds that focus on one thing, and that one thing pushes it over the edge because 25 stacks of might isn't something that the game is designed around in terms of raw damage output vs. raw health points and healing output. Either remove the ability to maintain perma-anything or make it so incredibly difficult that it will hamstring the rest of the build to a point of relative irrelevance.

The idea of this is nice but alot of the classes that can currently maintain things like 25 might are pretty limited on boon application as far as number of boons generated. Just note you cant only cull classes good at holding 25 might you have to cull everything classes that can currently hold 25 might should probably still be able to achieve much higher might count on average than others who cant. At the same time others have to lose their protection, vigor, swiftness, regen etc which keeps them alive.

Class Changes:
Mesmer:In conjunction with the condition damage change, the passive damage that mirages can pump out as a result of their clones is wildly overtuned - they already have an inherent advantage of having multiple copies of themselves that a person has to manage. It should not be the case that those copies are also putting an unnecessary amount of offensive pressure on the opponent.

I mean yea...

Guardian:Firebrand pushes SO many specs out of the meta that it is arguably one of the most obnoxious elite specializations in the game currently. A lot of people complain about condi thieves and mirages or holos, but the biggest culprit of meta imbalance is Firebrand. It is by far the spec that can single-handedly carry a game with how generally good it is. It should be a Jack of all trades, master of none. Instead, it is a master of literally everything aside from mobility. That is the down-fall, it is slow. That should NOT be a viable reason for something be wildly overtuned in almost all other aspects of its gameplay. Nerf. Firebrand. Kill. It. With. Fire.

Firebrand only is in need of tweaks core guardian lines and skills are totally fine.

Necro:Fine. Maybe nerf Reaper damage. The spec is really easy to play and do a lot of damage with, which is a problem. It isn't the worst thing in the world of course; however, it is gaining popularity simply due to how simple it is to pilot and still dish out an incomparable amount of damage.

Kind of inaccurate statement Reaper is gaining popularity not because its damage is high or that its "subjectively" easy to paly. Its because scourge is currently in shambles and core necromancer is beyond subpar due to being outdated in a lot of ways. Reaper is currently the most viable option in pvp (where having more offensive potential is the best defense) for the necromancer profession in general. Core can work but its more or less no more or any less effective its not "in a good place" with the current meta either as many people like to say, should everything else get nerfed down it might be in a "good place" but currently this is not the case. Reaper just being used more because scourge is currently not viable due to this risk/trade off of using it heavily out weighting the reward and potential it has in spvp.We also have to remember that reaper has walk to into danger to deal its damage which is still sub par to a lot of other professions and it has no "modern" kit tools to get out like others do. Its based on conditional defense in a meta where condi clear is heavily essential and a part of most players builds while allowing them to keep strong offensive pressure. Necromancer is also known for being focused over all other professions in the game partly because they can be destructive in a team fight but also because they have no easy way outs when focused. The term "really easy" is debatable. Solo play not so easy. Playing with 2 or 3 friends to watch your back 24/7 yeah kinda easy.

Engineer:Holo. Smith. Goodness gracious. If Firebrand is the most obnoxious elite specialization to play against, then holosmith is the second. And, I am sure there are arguments to be made that could flip those in a tier list. Holosmith has the same problem of being designed as a jack of all trades, master of none but operating as a master of all. It is too overtuned in almost all aspects of its gameplay, and it needs to be brought down to a reasonable power level. Focus on one or two things that can make the spec stand out, but having the entire specialization be an homage to imbalance is wildly unhealthy for the game. Nerf. Holo. Smith.

It just needs more risk, up the heat cost in forge make over heating a bigger risk to balance out the power they have.

Psycoprophet.8107 · November 12, 2019

@Burnfall.9573 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@blarghhrrkblah.3412 said:
@"Radagascar.6231" said:
Thief:
There isn't much to elaborate on beyond what a lot of people have already posted; however, I will say this: Thieves survivability should be looked at. A lot of people want to point to the fact that thieves have a low health pool. Do they, though? Carrion thieves have ~21k health. That's fine if their damage is going to be nerfed, but I think thieves should be balanced around a low health pool and high damage output. They should be high risk, high reward as opposed to the low risk, high reward playstyle they currently employ. Plain and simple, balance thieves around the concept of them being melee glass cannons with an avoidance kit. (Not perma-avoidance mind you)