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Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival

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  • @mbhalo.1547 said:
    Noooooo. These traits are super useful in some jumping puzzles. Behem Gauntlet for example.

    I myself will very much miss fall damage reduction in jumping puzzles and other situations that require jumping above great heights at risk of fall damage death. But especially some jumping puzzles. I hope fall damage reduction will be considered to be re-added as a mastery or other obtainable skill, even if temporary at times. The fall damage reduction traits let me stay alive in many situations where I had previously died.

    I wonder what's here.

  • @Echostorm.9143 said:
    So since the thinking here is that we don't need these traits because Gliders/Mounts that you'll now be allowing mounts and gliders in all JPs.

    Well said.

    I wonder what's here.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2019

    Soooo, big changes internally. Founder leaves, takes some with him to start a new studio. Players think the game is ending. Holidays are here and players are walking away tired of rediculous changes, even with new content coming. So those making decisions said "I know, lets really poke the bear, make uneeded changes and ignore our CUSTOMERS! Happy Holidays". Fortnite will be ever so pleased to see more unhappy gamers bored for Christmas.

    @Echostorm.9143 said: So since the thinking here is that we don't need these traits because Gliders/Mounts that you'll now be allowing mounts and gliders in all JPs.

    The irony here is they are not even realizing this is what they are implying. Soooo can't fall and live just flyover.. It is interesting that this thread is allowed to continue, allowing just anyone to read along. New players, potentially new players, PAYING CUSTOMERS. to name but a few.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • @Melech.4308 said:
    Question about this:

    Medic's Feedback: This trait no longer increases revival speed. It now causes Feedback to revive allies inside it by 5% per second.

    Does this mean that a mesmer can just tap F to cast the feedback then suddenly stop reviving but allies in the feedback still get revived?

    Yes.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JasonLucas.4981 said:

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:
    Ranger

    • Allies' Aid: This trait no longer increases revival speed. Reduced cooldown of this trait from 85 seconds to 60 seconds. Fixed a bug which caused the version of "Search and Rescue!" associated with this trait to be considered a Shout skill instead of a Command.

    This is basically a nerf for a trait that was already not so good, can't you guys make it works like transfusion and the pet pulls and tries to revive up to 5 downed players?

    Yeah I was excited to see how our trait got reworked only to see it’s just getting nerfed...

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • Fall damage reduction is important in WvW.
    We hear you that fall damage reduction and gauging whether a fall will kill you is something that is considered regularly as a part of WvW. However we would like to see how the WvW meta adjusts before making additional changes.

    I don't honestly think this change would effect the meta, and not sure what observable effects you will see from this.
    IMO, it is a great option for certain builds to have, and to be creative. Giving up a trait for this isn't always expected, and full applause to those players who manipulate their surroundings to make it work, either tricking lemmings off a cliff, or just for evasion when roaming. There's not enough of that in WvW.

    People spoke about jumping puzzles too; I used to play from China with a 300+ ping. I remember trying desperately to do the Aetherblade puzzle as part of my legendary Dawn quest. It was a nightmare. Fall damage traits do serve a purpose. Maybe they are a crutch, but they've come to be an accepted crutch by the playerbase. Some of these puzzles are bloody hard, and removing this trait ramps the difficulty up a notch, impacts high-ping players, as well as any handicapped players as mentioned before.

    The first post here described fall damage as niche. Maybe it is. But it's also unique in how it lets players change how they interact with terrain.
    Anet, maybe you have some great ideas of how to better rework these traits, but I can't muster any enthusiasm when this what is being removed.

  • I have to say that I'm really not liking the prospect of removing the fall damage reduction traits! I like keeping them on some of my characters (mainly those i bring to WvW and my Mesmer), and would be quite sorry to see them go.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019

    I'm waiting for the predictable reply of "Ok, we hear you! We're holding off on the Fall Damage changes for now until we can review it more". Then we'll have a unexplained update and viola! The changes are made covertly. We'll scream and they will reply "We reviewed our findings and saw no need to delay the changes".

    Anet, if we can have one wish, delay the changes until after the holidays. Let us have one last good time before many of us quit for good.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Just tested falling at todays jp morghans spiral. Without fall protection I had just a sliver of health left. it was a distance of 1437. Any higher, goner.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guild wars 2 was never built with proper 3D movement in mind. It really wasn't. It has minor 3D movement, but is a game that preforms best on a 2D plane. This is something that many of us will have noticed right away. Sure, you have Jumping and utilizing the vertical axis in this regard as well as with mounts now, but when it comes to combat the concept of the vertical axis is all but forgotten. This has also impacted underwater combat which even now feels clunky when compared to the land combat. And this is because the mechanics of the game don't properly support 3D.

    Why do I bring this up? Well, because the removal of fall damage traits or their replacement, doesn't impact the game all that much. We don't currently have skills that can supersede the 2D restrictions of combat. Teleport need a valid path to target, leaps frequently track along the ground causing pit falls, NPCs can't be knocked off platforms and fall to their death, Flying enemies don't actually fly but are rooted to the ground and teleport when "Flying up". Much of the game holds the illusion of 3D combat when it truth, its not. This isn't saying GW2 is a bad game because of this, but this clunky design is extremely apparent to anyone who's played for a while. And the fall damage traits, although cool in a way, just don't have practical application in a 2D fighting system like we have now. Now are there skills that do properly use the 3D space? Yes. Projectiles. But this is only due to a necessity and not indicative of the overall combat.

    I say this because you're a bit late to the conversation on Fall damage. This design choice would have always hindered this design choice. Unfortunately. Perhaps in GW3 we'll have true 3D combat, but at the moment we're playing with 2D+ at best.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm fine as well, to remove falling dmg traits.
    That could open space for more interesting traits or stronger effects of the current second effect.

    Also I don't see a problem in removing them.

    In wvw: know where you can jump down. If an enemy jumps after you, he's always at a disadvantage.
    Right now: what if you don't have the trait but your opponent does? That would set you at a disadvantage.
    Removing these traits is good then

    And for pve: people crying that they can't do jumping puzzles anymore:
    Learn to play and do them the intended way.

    Right now, these traits let you cheese sometimes but they are mostly used on mesmer to completely skip jumping puzzles and get straight to the chest at the end.
    I love seeing this gone.

    Where is the fun in using those ports to get every puzzle cheesed? 🧀

    For God's sake: if you don't want to play the game and just do the story without doing anything I recommend watching a movie. That suits youre preferences more.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2019

    @misterman.1530 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    I'm fine as well, to remove falling dmg traits.
    That could open space for more interesting traits or stronger effects of the current second effect.

    Also I don't see a problem in removing them.

    In wvw: know where you can jump down. If an enemy jumps after you, he's always at a disadvantage.
    Right now: what if you don't have the trait but your opponent does? That would set you at a disadvantage.
    Removing these traits is good then

    And for pve: people crying that they can't do jumping puzzles anymore:
    Learn to play and do them the intended way.

    Right now, these traits let you cheese sometimes but they are mostly used on mesmer to completely skip jumping puzzles and get straight to the chest at the end.
    I love seeing this gone.

    Where is the fun in using those ports to get every puzzle cheesed? 🧀

    For God's sake: if you don't want to play the game and just do the story without doing anything I recommend watching a movie. That suits youre preferences more.

    Wow. This is such an attack post, I can't begin to imagine how you don't get a warning for this...

    Some of us have trouble with JPs. Slow reflexes, physical handicaps, bad internet connections, etc.

    So, you're saying everyone who isn't a try-hard should just up and quit and go watch movies? I don't think that's a good business model.

    Indeed. I guess those with handicaps or other limitations are not welcome in Guild wars. They should mention this on the packaging.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • I really like the idea that fall damage reduction should be added to food. Maybe revive speed too.

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jumping puzzles are known to give herpes (I am sorry, i meant STI's)

    Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2019

    I think the title is misleading. When you want to totally remove certain trait skills, you called that a change??

    "Upcoming Removal of Fall Damage and Revival Trait Skills' is the real intention. Stop trying to convince us otherwise.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2019

    @Mil.3562 said:
    I think the title is misleading. When you want to totally remove certain trait skills, you called that a change??

    "Upcoming Removal of Fall Damage and Revival Trait Skills' is the real intention. Stop trying to convince us otherwise.

    Agree, have the conviction to state what you are doing. Don't hide it in phrasing. One good thing about this, we are seeing Anets true colors.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Swadow.6213Swadow.6213 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh btw, what about Life From Death? That forgotten trait in Blood Magic Master tier? This one https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_from_Death? Will that be also getting some changes or was that forgotten about by the devs and the community?

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2019

    @Dante.1763 said:
    I hope you plan to allow mounts and gliders in all JPS now? There are players out there who cant make jumps due to world location, hand eye issues, and other medical issues. These traits are a huge lifeline to them(my parents are two of them, and one still gets super frustrated with some of your JPS.).

    Really, really considering making the fall damage baseline(50% reduction in PVE, and 25% Reduction in WVW) instead of just cutting it out completely, or add it to a mastery that affects all game modes and is permanent. Its been there since launch, nobody has considered it to complicated, its one line of text that very clearly states what it does.

    Either allow mounts and gliders across all jumping puzzles so those who need the extra assistance can use them, or leave the traits in game and alone.

    Exactly. I wondered after seeing the WITD trailer if they are adding it to the new masteries. It would really be a lousy move, to make us obtain a trait that we already have.

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Robert Gee.9246 said:

    Guardian

    • Protectors Impact: Removed fall damage functionality from this trait. Renamed to "Protector's Restoration".
    • Signet of Mercy: Reduced recharge to 90 seconds in all game modes. Changed passive effect from granting 180 healing power (216 when traited) to granting 120 concentration (150 when traited).
    • Protective Reviver: This trait no longer increases revival speed and no longer grants boons on a successful revival. Fixed skill fact to show correct 3 second duration. Fixed a bug which prevented the recharge of Lesser Shield of Absorption from being affected by Stalwart Defender. Lesser Shield of Absorption now heals nearby allies when it ends. This trait now causes all versions of Shield of Absorption to revive allies by 15% when it detonates.
    • Courageous Return: This trait has been reworked and it has been renamed to "Stalwart Courage". It grants the guardian Protection for 3 seconds in PvE and 1 second in PvP/WvW whenever aegis on the guardian is removed due to blocking an attack.

    So, I have had a couple days to mull over the changes to revive and how I feel about them. In PvP I admit I tend to play somewhat 'Memelord' builds, typically guardians focused on supporting their team mates with either core or Dragon Hunter. This is nowhere close to viable mind you, but it does feel good. I am very much a person who buys into the idea of 'class identity' and for me one of the cores to making Guardian enjoyable was the combination of healing/revival abilities for bounce back and proactive defensive abilities to tilt the battlefield in your favor beforehand. You combine that with their passive virtues which can be traited to aid others around you on their own and 'overloaded' for an immediate team benefit and you had something that was pretty fun to play around with.

    In particular i'v enjoyed tinkering around with the Guardians revival abilities, you'd figure of all the classes they'd be the ones best suited to be a combat medic. To a degree they are, the pushback from shield of absorption has made protective reviver save a team mate more then once for me, and the application of boons immediately after it's use left me feeling suitably rewarded for the effort. However it's always suffered from one major issue in my eyes: It shares a space with invigorating bulwark, sacrificing the mace cooldown reduction and outgoing healing meant that if I wanted to use that for revival, I actually had to sacrifice a considerable amount of my ability as a healer, too much to be worth it.

    I purpose a change to make Protective Reviver potentially worth it even after factoring in the removal of it's boons. That is to take it, and swap positions with Empowering Might. The reasons for this are twofold: First and foremost, swapping it with empowering might means you can trait into invigorating bulwark and use reviver. But more interestingly while active revival abilities typically are not impacted by healing power, they are to my understanding augmented by Outgoing Healing which Bulwark provides. So not only would this allow you to maintain sustainable healing it would actually synergize. In fact you could conceivably make Guardian one of the single best combat medics in the game, and promote a playstyle of getting into the thick of it in melee with the mace and do hands on healing in the middle of combat. As it stands this synergy is actually discouraged because the other support choice that you're more likely to pick if you've taken Reviver is staff, which is a ranged weapon that encourages you to hang back and empower allies rather then get upfront and actively heal while fighting, you don't even have an offhand to use your shield to take advantage of how it augments absorption there as well.

    The second reason is that it would still promote making a serious sacrifice, if one that's not quite so severe. By doing this the person is actively choosing to give up Pure of Heart, and in doing so surrendering one of the best sources for healing on the Guardian. Thus it still feels like your making a significant change to your playstyle, giving up consistent healing in return for the ability to revive bomb someone in a pinch, especially if you've also traited force of will and/or equipped Rune of the Monk. I doubt even this would make protective reviver competitive, but it would definitely make it feel fun and impactful, who knows? maybe it'd even be the start of a combat medic build with shield and mace that's closer to the original vision of core guardian.

    Thoughts?

  • @thrag.9740 said:

    @Kolzi.5928 said:

    @thrag.9740 said:
    You guys need to change twisted castle then. RIght now you have two options to make that jump, dodge roll of the edge or fall damage trait. However, dodge rolling off the edge is counter intuitive with no in game explanation. By dodge rolling off the ledge, you fall faster, but don't die from the fall. That's incredibly confusing.

    Edit: people don't believe me, so I made a video showing this:

    That jump isn't part of the intended way of doing things, it's a player-found shortcut, so worrying about it being counter intuitive is a bit silly imo :p It's still totally doable.

    Yes but it is also part of the meta now. Any new players who watch a video or even just play with a player who has any experience are going to encounter this and think it is the correct path.

    Well this "meta" isn't intuitive and has no in-game explanation either. If people can look up a video, they can also notice that people dodge roll off. If they're in a group and announce that they're new to it (which they should), the people will tell them to dodge.

  • @GWMO.4785 said:
    R.I.P. mesmer portal carry in Twisted Castle?

    You can do that without fall damage reduction trait. Instead of jumping just dodge down.

    Still, I dont see a reason to remove that when anet is not replacing it with something else

  • People want to just pick on the jp arguement, but there is plenty of other exploration places that -- such as paths to vistas -- where being able to negate false damage is nice to have. It doesn't have to be an always used thing to be useful. Anet is probably going to make a potion and sell it for this. Maybe that is what they have in mind, nickle and diming us on all qol features.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Do we have any date for those and WvW PvP changes? When it will be alive?

    Jokaurene

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XatraZaytrax.2601 said:
    People want to just pick on the jp arguement, but there is plenty of other exploration places that -- such as paths to vistas -- where being able to negate false damage is nice to have. It doesn't have to be an always used thing to be useful. Anet is probably going to make a potion and sell it for this. Maybe that is what they have in mind, nickle and diming us on all qol features.

    Players don’t have access to gliders on enemy controlled maps, traits for fall damage are appreciated.

  • Evon Skyfyre.9673Evon Skyfyre.9673 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2019

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @XatraZaytrax.2601 said:
    People want to just pick on the jp arguement, but there is plenty of other exploration places that -- such as paths to vistas -- where being able to negate false damage is nice to have. It doesn't have to be an always used thing to be useful. Anet is probably going to make a potion and sell it for this. Maybe that is what they have in mind, nickle and diming us on all qol features.

    Players don’t have access to gliders on enemy controlled maps, traits for fall damage are appreciated.

    Players with GW2 only do not have gliding or mounts period? They need HOT/POF or do without? JP's are going to be that much more difficult there. Removing Fall Protection only succeeds in feeding the egos of the Elitest players. Which honestly, if that is the trend, I'm out. I'm here to help players not point out their short comings. I never EVER thought Guild Wars would go that way. The community here was different. I've taken breaks from the game before but always found my way back. IF I leave this time, I'm deleting my characters. There will be no coming back. FWIW, please Anet, remember what this game was founded on. Don't abandon those ideals. Like Jeff Strain said long ago, "Don't worry about other games, make your game the best it can be. Focus on that".

    MsTrandentia - Leader of Tyrian Mystical Tours [PORT]

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Evon Skyfyre.9673 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @XatraZaytrax.2601 said:
    People want to just pick on the jp arguement, but there is plenty of other exploration places that -- such as paths to vistas -- where being able to negate false damage is nice to have. It doesn't have to be an always used thing to be useful. Anet is probably going to make a potion and sell it for this. Maybe that is what they have in mind, nickle and diming us on all qol features.

    Players don’t have access to gliders on enemy controlled maps, traits for fall damage are appreciated.

    Players with only GW2 only do not have gliding or mounts period? They need HOT/POF or do without? JP's are going to be that much more difficult there. Removing Fall Protection only succeeds in feeding the egos of the Elitest players. Which honestly, if that is the trend, I'm out. I'm here to help players not point out their short comings. I never EVER thought Guild Wars would go that way. The community here was different. I've taken breaks from the game before but always found my way back. IF I leave this time, I'm deleting my characters. There will be no coming back. FWIW, please Anet, remember what this game was founded on. Don't abandon those ideals. Like Jeff Strain said long ago, "Don't worry about other games, make your game the best it can be. Focus on that".

    Totally forgot about the f2p players....
    They should abolish the no fall damage changes and focus on improving racial skills according to the game modes.

    Just saying...

  • NaramSin.2693NaramSin.2693 Member ✭✭✭

    Well, you should also think about F2P players and old Full game owner That do not have access to Mounts and Gliders, You actually are relegating them to an area unmanageable from the point of view of the game, they can't simply play, so from F2P point of view they will not experience the game and suddenly will leave before starting to be involved in the game, the others will simply be upset (and quit maybe) just because they paid money (hundreds of them for the collector's edition for example) to have an unplayable game just because You don't pay attention to details.
    Giving them BASIC Glider or maybe a Warclaw mount (that anyway it's useless in PVE) since it is not related to HOT or PF in any way and useful (needed) only in WvW would be a great decision in my opinion, just to be able to survive all those changes in the game.
    So without falling damage reduction I can't imagine what they will do in WvW or PVE without glider and basic mount, good luck :)

  • you guys took the joy out of playing war in wvw. i think it's time to retire. it's like you guys are trying to force wars into being bubble boys in wvw. i refuse. dropping down on mobs of enemies was the sugar in my tea. now i feel useless when enemies run up on our towers. gg anet. time to get my cyberpunk on. exodus.

  • We really need fall damage reduction traits to be back. I don't understand why Anet made that wrong step.
    There is no reason to explain it. Even if some people say it is useless there are people using those traits.

    I play mostly WvW, to not say only, and I miss that feature a lot, especially after been used to it for so many years.

    I would be glad if you, Anet, change your mind and bring back damage reduction traits.

    Also, sorry, but saying that fall damage reduction traits "are currently over-complicating trait descriptions in a
    post-glider/mount world" sounds more like a joke...

  • Just wanted to say I HATE these BAD changes that were made for no reason.

    You literally took the most fun skill my Warrior had and removed it.