Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Top 1 vs 1 impromptu fighter in WvW (End 2019)


EremiteAngel.9765

Recommended Posts

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Unfortunately, adding the word “impromptu” doesn’t make the description of “duel”, or my use of it in this thread, any different.

You’re trying hard, but you’re not winning this duel. Sorry.

It does in fact. A duel is never impromptu, that's the whole point of the /bow, to ensure that your opponent is ready. If the thread was about dueling, there would have been no need to mention build templates, as a duel allows you all the time you need to ready your gear and traits. Among gw2 players, dueling is a very specific thing that is not the subject of this thread. An impromptu 1v1 is when a solo roamer happens upon another solo roamer and they hopefully fight, preferably to the death. If you need reinforcement of this concept, note that there were over a dozen replies in this thread before you posted, but the topic of dueling wasn't mentioned until you chose to introduce it . . .

@subversiontwo.7501 said:Gop, before you guys drift further into semantics I think you are missing Swagger's point.No I got the point, which is that they believe wvw exists only for them and any discussion of topics not of interest to them are somehow wasting 'oxygen' on the forum. But instead of ignoring a topic that did not interest them, they chose to make an ill-informed post revealing their ignorance of the nuance of the topic being discussed, which is unsurprising as it is a topic of no interest to them. There's no shame in it. I'm sure I would make many similar errors if I presumed to enter discussions on topics where I am not well informed . . .If you roam and the fights are "impromptu" they are always situated in a 1vX perspective.Certainly true. So what would be the point of reducing the poll to 1v1 encounters? Think on it for a moment and we'll come back to it . . .They may be 1v1 but they are derived from a 1vX perspective and whatever people play are built for 1vX and not 1v1. If regulate that scenario to a 1v1 you get a duel.A zergling being repeatedly killed on the way back to their zerg by a spawn camper, a roamer killing a pver trying for monument daily, one player killing another while trying to run the last yak into an objective, two players fighting over a camp or tower. These are all 1v1 encounters. All duels to your mind? The difference is not semantic . . .The best 1vX build in a 1v1 situation is a pretty pointless discussion when you could talk about the best 1vX build in a 1vX situation or the best 1v1 build in a 1v1 situation.And yet that is the topic at hand. If you feel it's pointless, that's fine. I feel many threads are pointless. It's just the nature of being around other ppl. They're not all interested in the same things. I look at this thread as 'when you're solo roaming, which class makes you feel most confident when you happen upon a 1v1 opportunity' or 'same situation, which opposing class gives you the most pause'. It's just a fun opportunity to see what other players with similar interests think. It doesn't have to have a point . . .You can not simply pick half of something (roaming) and half of something else (duelling), mash it together and cherry pick whatever fits your perspective. It is an inauthentic presupposition. That also gives the poll a confirmation bias leaving the strengths and weaknesses of certain classes in either roaming or duelling out of consideration. It's about as useful as discussing which class performs the best with clones.Happily no one has done so. We did have one poster attempt to take two separate concepts and subsume one into the other, but I corrected the error . . .

Unfortunately for you, the English language is on my side. And I know it’s hard to accept, but you lost this duel.

I feel confident you could find a semantics forum where that would be relevant. As we are debating gw2 wvw concepts, your understanding continues to limit you :(

@Gop.8713 said:A zergling being repeatedly killed on the way back to their zerg by a spawn camper, a roamer killing a pver trying for monument daily, one player killing another while trying to run the last yak into an objective, two players fighting over a camp or tower. These are all 1v1 encounters. All duels to your mind? The difference is not semantic . . .None of them are duels as none of them are regulated. At the same time none of them are 1v1 situations, they are 1v1 engagements in a 1vX situation. At any time someone can +1 them and most of them are engaged with other players on screen. That is also fairly evident by the fact that none of those are best done with a (condi) Mesmer while the poll is phrased in a way where the Mesmer can be the only answer yet at the same time not be an answer that anything substantial or objective can be derived from.

Your examples illustrate that point as the "top" (and/or most common) class for most of those examples is a Thief thanks to what it can draw upon from a 1vX perspective and a notable part of that is its superior ability to disengage which only holds value in 1vX and holds no value from a duel or "fighting" perspective. Other people early in the thread argued that it has no value for the poll, quickly blurring the lines between roaming and duels.

That brings us to this:

@Gop.8713 said:And yet that is the topic at hand. If you feel it's pointless, that's fine. I feel many threads are pointless. It's just the nature of being around other ppl.Yes, that is the topic and indeed the argument from the very beginning has been that the topic is pointless. Not pointless from how someone feel but pointless in terms of collecting a set of data to determine what the "top" of something is. It is objectively pointless, not subjectively. Had the thread been phrased as what is your "favourite" or "most liked" I think no one would have any objection but we would also have no discussion ;).

At the same time, I would surmise that none of the people who voted for the Mesmer in the poll did so because they like it the best for solo roaming or duelling. They voted for it because they got killed by it (a strong duelling build) while they were roaming (on various roaming builds) and tried to fight it on its terms. As a result that is what can be derived from this poll whether Eremite intended that or not.

Condi Mesmers have always worked like that since all the way back to early vanilla. They are difficult to gank but they are not necessarily the best to gank with or to duel with. They are one of the best ways to counter bad gankers who don't know when to stop however. In fact, that's how most people used them in vanilla; as a switch-up to chase gankers off (often Thieves). The condi Mirages of today have a fair bit more catching-power and disengagement power themselves, making the combination harder to deal with but it still doesn't make them better as roamers as they are still far more susceptible to being run down by superior numbers. The people who are making thinly veiled complaints about being killed by them do not factor that into their votes.

Hey, great. As long as you backed off from insisting the poll is about dueling, I don't much care about the rest of it . . .

I'm sorry that you're having such a difficult time with this.

It's okay, you can't get through to everyone :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dreamy Lu.3865 said:Thief. They stealth and stealth and stealth again... Can take ages. When I see one, I keep running. I lack the interest. But that's most probably because I'm by far too lazy! :3

Thieves can be fun to fight when you find one that's willing to fight, but yes any kiter I'd rather just keep going or die and run back . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kovu.7560 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:What is this OP 1v1 mesmer build that everyone is talking about? Condi or burst shatter?

Condi. Condi Mirage is S-tier cancer. (Whereas power burst shatter is maybe B+ tier)Anyone who complains about the annoying things that thieves do obviously haven't run into one of these condi mirages.

~ Kovu

I'm not sure why there are so many votes for mirage tbh.With the build templates now, I got one build that is almost full anti-condi and allows me to take on condi mirage on equal terms.I don't find them particularly challenging.Personally I find Power/Hybrid mirages tougher but still not really OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I'm not sure why there are so many votes for mirage tbh.With the build templates now, I got one build that is almost full anti-condi and allows me to take on condi mirage on equal terms.I don't find them particularly challenging.Personally I find Power/Hybrid mirages tougher but still not really OP.

Condi Mirage is either a draw because of a high condi cleanse counter or they kill. Any decent condi mirage is nigh unkillable in even numbers because of the multiple teleports, invis, evasion, etc. They can essentially grind down an opponent and run away if it doesn't work out. Killing a good one on equal footing is as much luck as it is skill.

A highly skilled player driving a hybrid always deserves respect because no build is beyond its ability to win unlike condi-mirage. However the build has counters. Hybrids are weak against sustain builds such as evasion thieves, skill reset DE, knockdown warriors, etc and they are susceptible to burst. If they get caught, they go down fast unlike a condi mirage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I'm not sure why there are so many votes for mirage tbh.Because its always been the goto complaint of people that dont know how to fight them. Mesmer OP. Despite the fact that when you run around in WvW you'll meet 10, 20, 30 or more of the other classes between each mesmer encounter - and only a fraction of them are worth their salt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kovu.7560 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:What is this OP 1v1 mesmer build that everyone is talking about? Condi or burst shatter?

Condi. Condi Mirage is S-tier cancer. (Whereas power burst shatter is maybe B+ tier)Anyone who complains about the annoying things that thieves do obviously haven't run into one of these condi mirages.

~ Kovu

I find thieves annoying and I run a B+ tier build and despite having little to no clears, I still beat condi mirages :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:What is this OP 1v1 mesmer build that everyone is talking about? Condi or burst shatter?

Condi. Condi Mirage is S-tier cancer. (Whereas power burst shatter is maybe B+ tier)Anyone who complains about the annoying things that thieves do obviously haven't run into one of these condi mirages.

~ Kovu

I find thieves annoying and I run a B+ tier build and despite having little to no clears, I still beat condi mirages :p

I agree. Thieves are worse. 1v1 mes is rarely a problem . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I'm not sure why there are so many votes for mirage tbh.Because its always been the goto complaint of people that dont know how to fight them. Mesmer OP. Despite the fact that when you run around in WvW you'll meet 10, 20, 30 or more of the other classes between each mesmer encounter - and only a fraction of them are worth their salt.

I duel condi mirage builds quite frequently and killing a decent one in a duel regardless of the build is like watching paint dry. They have no direct counters only builds that can push a draw. If someone is beating them consistently it is because they are fighting crappy ones. My dueling variant is absurdly OP, wrecks everything that can be wrecked by condi and is effectively immune to condi and spike damage.

As far as fighting other roamers, all I see are rangers, condi mirage and thieves. I do run into a bit of everything but most other classes seem to be incidental not actually roaming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:What is this OP 1v1 mesmer build that everyone is talking about? Condi or burst shatter?

Condi. Condi Mirage is S-tier cancer. (Whereas power burst shatter is maybe B+ tier)Anyone who complains about the annoying things that thieves do obviously haven't run into one of these condi mirages.

~ Kovu

I find thieves annoying and I run a B+ tier build and despite having little to no clears, I still beat condi mirages :p

Too each their own, but I find most thieves are pretty easy to tank and blow up if you know when to use your defensive cooldowns and bursts whereas condition mirages have an obscene amount of tools to sustain between evasion frames, stealth uptime, teleports and reflections and are able to apply conditions with lots of cover conditions and are able to do so with more consistently over a longer period of time. Their condition spike isn't as obscene as other professions, sure, but it doesn't need to be (and spike condition bursts are generally easier to cleanse anyway). Unless they screw up bad the best you can hope for against a mirage is a draw if you're able to indefinitely cleanse their conditions, or if you run away.

I run a glass power soulbeast so I have tools that'll allow me to survive for a while, but I still only have a win rate of about 30-40% against condi mirage (I probably win about 60-70% of my fights against other power soulbeasts and thieves and about 50% of the fights I have with boonbeasts, for comparison). I can only imagine how tough it must be for literally any melee-oriented build to deal with assorted tools at condition mirage's disposal.

I feel like if I actually manage to lock down a mirage long enough to burst them into downstate it was done by pure chance.

~ Kovu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Straegen.2938 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:I'm not sure why there are so many votes for mirage tbh.Because its always been the goto complaint of people that dont know how to fight them. Mesmer OP. Despite the fact that when you run around in WvW you'll meet 10, 20, 30 or more of the other classes between each mesmer encounter - and only a fraction of them are worth their salt.

I duel condi mirage builds quite frequently and killing a decent one in a duel regardless of the build is like watching paint dry. They have no direct counters only builds that can push a draw. If someone is beating them consistently it is because they are fighting crappy ones. My dueling variant is absurdly OP, wrecks everything that can be wrecked by condi and is effectively immune to condi and spike damage.

As far as fighting other roamers, all I see are rangers, condi mirage and thieves. I do run into a bit of everything but most other classes seem to be incidental not actually roaming.

What server are you on good sir and/or madam?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...