QoL Buff and Nerf Wishlist/Request for Revenant Skills/Traits (July 27 2020) — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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QoL Buff and Nerf Wishlist/Request for Revenant Skills/Traits (July 27 2020)

Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 28, 2020 in Revenant

As title says, after experiencing every niches and corners of Revenant I figured that I'd put out what I think needs to be changed from mostly a PvP perspective, but also PvE.

Weapons

Main-Hand Sword

Tweaks have made it so the weapon is actually as good on it's own without having to rely so much on an off-hand, increased diversity for Revenants.

Off-Hand Sword

It's got weird unnecessary changes that definitely nerfed core Revenant as a whole and has made Staff a must have alternative.

  • Duelist Preparation needs to be brought back into the mix ahead of Shackling Waves and work like Counterattack from Ranger Greatsword, putting the simple gameplay and damage down significantly, providing some sustain without losing any of that damage. Taking out the "Must rush and jump only on everyone at once." type of mentality, we have Deathstrike for that.
  • Deathstrike needs to be slowed down slightly and have it's effects rolled back. This drastically nerfed Jalis stance because the conditions were used to cover Weakness, now Power Shiro/Dwarf is almost useless to play compared Condition Mallyx/Jalis. Chill and Slow were also there to make the final hit possible and less risky, now it's clunky and still missing sometime but the fast skill also often desync which makes evading it stupidly clunky as the old one usually had the player moving to update with the first hit. Also it's common that Deathstrike is used with Phase Traversal, Quickness compensates for how usually slow the skill was compared to the past, which now is really stupid fast.

Mace

It feels just right, but could use one simple change.

  • Quickness needs to affect Echoing Eruption, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever.

Axe

It's perfect, it hits that sweet spot where you can make it work with pretty much anything but also exceeds at what it's meant to do. In PvP/WvW it's not really much of a condition weapon, but it works.

Staff

It's in a great spot with the changes it's got, I know a lot of people got upset at the changes to the 2nd skill, I did too but this makes the whole weapon less trivial as well as adding value to the 5th skill, balancing it for already how strong it is. The 3rd skill was also no exception, extremely strong before, now there's some actual input to it. The added delay is not as problematic as people think, it's okay but sure could be a bit faster.

Hammer

Currently regarded as nerfed (Also Skill 2 broken, anet pls fix.), but overall by design all the skills should do the same damage, this uniformity compensates greatly for how telegraphed the skills are, still 2 things I would change but otherwise I consider it to be quite strong.

  • 5th Skill to do the same amount of damage as 2 and 3 in PvE.
  • RESTORE THE OLD TARGETING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. The cooldown in PvP/WvW and damage nerfs were /fine/ but making it dysfunctional is not. Fix the sound too!

Traits

Invocation

There's been a few changes here that were quite too much for Revenant and that they should be reviewed again for the sake of the class health as this is one of the main traitline used.

  • Incensed Response needed to be nerfed, I agree with Anet's reasoning, but not like this. Roll back the nerf and either reduce the Might Duration or the amount of Might gained. Do it for WvW as well, not just PvP, the synergy is broken on Herald, that's it. Otherwise it's useless.
  • Charged Mists requirements are too high and makes it purely a PvE trait until the required energy is increased to 20-25, it's already hard enough to keep the energy low while being effective and stunbreaking at the same time, traits should work together not against each other. If you really want to make it casual, have no requirement at all and just grant 25 energy on legend swap in combat, players are giving up on instant invoking effects/critical chance for this, it wouldn't break balance at all.
  • Roiling Mists was nerfed along many things, including Incensed Response which was too much, it hit Core Revenant greatly and not so much for Herald nor Renegade. It needs to be brought back the way it was.

Devastation

Good changes were made, there's not much to talk about.

Corruption

With the new changes in the February patch, there is only one complain.

  • Permeating Pestilence had been nerfed with the right reasons but the wrong numbers. Understandably this delay added makes the trait more healthy as a whole, less instant casting more predictability. 2 conditions on transfer in PvP/WvW however is not good, when paired with Cleansing Channel makes the trait worst by transferring meaningless conditions while the bigger one is often cleared, to pull off any good transfers now is nearly impossible because of this number, 3 would be enough. Please, do address this in time, it's not like it's multiple conditions either like Facet of Demon that affects as many conditions on yourself, this is only 2 of the same conditions in a 240 radius for 5 targets.

Retribution

The design of the traits is good, but some of the ICDs still too high to make them good.

  • Close Quarters is a very low bonus to trade off Planar Protection, considering it destroy projectiles at range, it applies Weakness at close. Make the trait damage reduction distance based and up to 20% from the furthest which would be more reasonable given that there's nothing to gain from being "Close Quarters" with it.
  • Spiritual Reckoning ICD is high for how short the boon is. Either increase the boon duration to 5 seconds or Reduce the ICD to 5 seconds. Preferably the ICD would be better for the uniformity of most traits Revenant have.
  • Eye for an Eye Might is not great, asking for Revenants to be stunbreaking is a big loss of damage that Might won't compensate for and so should be 5 seconds of Retaliation instead because most Revenant stunbreaks take time and leave great exposure of the player by the exception of Riposting Shadows, the trait really has to be godly to justify not taking Dwarven Battle Training, this would make it compete with it. In fact, even Retaliatory Evasion is considerably better because evading the CC is more rewarding. If players really care about Might, Vicious Reprisal is a thing and will grant the same amount of Might overtime with said boon.
  • Versed in Stone the toughness benefit in PvP is too low, should be at least as high as Armored Attack like on Warrior.

Salvation

This traitline is actually good and fairly varied, the only problem is orbs. Please Anet, either rework the traits based on orbs altogether or make the orbs track players. There's too much visual clutter or RNG to make it viable. Fragments are already random enough, strange to also not have self increased healing but that's probably fair given how that goes with bunkers.

Skills / Stances

Ancient Echo

Very good addition that contributes in keeping Revenant relevant in the game, it wouldn't be the same without it since it was extremely hard to play otherwise. There's just this one bug with Versed in Stone not counting towards Rite of the Great Dwarf from Ancient Echo which really needs to be fixed, considering how often it's used. For both Shiro and Ventari it would be very useful to work accordingly.

Legendary Assassin

The most popular so it's kept in check a lot, but there's still one thing that really needs to be changed.

Legendary Centaur

This one is really powerful but requires such precise plays and in team fights it's always likely to be killed if targeted due to the following. I still stand by those changes.

  • Project Tranquility should "tether" the Tablet and "follow" the player until Ventari's Will is used where manual control is took until Energy Expulsion is used to reset it back to tether. This is an important change that needs to be looked into with how clunky it is to handle, have the players will lose the benefits of using anything that relates to a healing skill such as Blindness from Blinding Truths or runes that provide extra benefits from using it often, it balances the playstyle out.
  • Purifying Essence absolutely needs to be a stunbreak, make it happen so that the legend can finally step out of the Glint/Jalis combo's, it sucks to be so limited. There is too much CC in the game to say that one legend should not have one. Even if the Tablet can be handled while stunned among other things, the pressure is too great, Ventari bonuses are all outgoing, there's nothing to recover from a stunlock the moment a whole entire zerg decides to focus the user entering the stance. While at it, an additional condition for a total of 4 and 30 energy to unify around the other stunbreak skills.

Legendary Demon

Fantastic rework from Anet on that one, while I do miss the old AoE spam. This is miles better than the old glaring issues Unyielding Anguish and Embrace the Darkness had. Quite nearly perfect I'd say, but one thing that really needs to be added.

  • Empowering Misery needs to have Resistance as baseline without trait, it's such a ridiculous idea to ask players having many conditions on them to quickly lose everything again. Demonic Defiance ICD is also separate from the healing skill itself which means in the end there's still 4 seconds of Resistance to be had regardless whether it grants Resistance or not after using another Demon skill, fix it so it's actually all uniform per skill plus the heal skill baseline Resistance, you'll probably end up seeing more variety because no longer Demonic Defiance will be required to play Mallyx at the riskyof melting so quickly and the heal be nearly useless because Pain Absorption is absolutely required if you're not using Spirit Boon or Fiendish Tenacity.

Legendary Dwarf

Mostly another good rework, but the same glaring issues still remain even if by design Dwarf is never meant to be CC'd it's "unavoidable" with the boon rip spam, so to suggest along the rest.

  • Soothing Stone should grant 586 (0.15) Barrier per condition removed and actually remove all of them if anything because it's awful how by default Revenant even with Vengeful Hammers is really weak to conditions yet allowed to tank them. A full cleanse skill isn't something Revenant has yet and should by now, be rewarded to actually use the skill at the right time as well is something of a healthy change for the entire class and it's weakness to condition damage. Post about it here https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89103/soothing-stone-is-out-of-date#latest
  • Rite of the Great Dwarf already went over that on https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/87579/rite-of-the-great-dwarf-its-time-to-put-it-in-line-with-the-other-skills#latest as td;lr, the casting takes too long and ruins the flow. A buff to 1 second or even ¾ cast time would fine tune the legend to perfection with it's abilities because in a whole second a lot can happen already, Revenant doesn't need to be that much of telegraphed and so no longer forced having to pick certain traits to make it viable would open more options.

Elite Specializations

Herald

Shield

Good asset to any bruiser/sustain builds, but both skills could use some work.

  • Envoy of Exuberance is.. Alright, but please make the hitbox bigger, move faster as well as fixing Aegis blocking the skill.. Also the sending/returning energy to grant Protection consistently from to teammates/users, it has potent uses but those needs to be polished.
  • Crystal Hybernation with such a big root might as well maybe make blocking 4 seconds, just like the same amount of pulses (Not sure on that one). Those pulses should also affect allies in a radius of 360, make Herald be more supportive oriented so that most can finally stop complaining at how selfish of a skill it is even though there's many like it in the game.

Traits

Herald has only one trait that really is lacking.

  • Core Value needs to do twice of what it already does. Every benefits from it are not good enough to pick over Rising Momentum. Edit: This could actually be overpowered and over doing it because True Nature affects multiple targets. Instead of just affecting True Nature alone, it should also improve the Facet of Nature passive by 50% their effects.
  1. Facet of Nature—Assassin Life Steal Damage: 80 (0.0666) and Life Steal Healing: 128 (0.0333), given this would make it also more effective for teammates since it uses the affected player's power/healing power and not the Herald's.
  2. Facet of Nature—Centaur heals for 707 every 3 seconds.
  3. Facet of Nature—Demon transfers 2 conditions every 3 seconds.
  4. Facet of Nature—Dwarf gives 15% damage reduction.
  5. Facet of Nature—Dragon gives +30% boon duration.

All of the effects are rounded up as well.

Please do fix the True Nature Demon to be uniform with Shiro's 360 radius also, that thing is really strong at 600.

  • Elevated Compassion should heal up to 5 (Capped) times the amount based on the number of boons granted just like Resilient Spirit except to teammates only.
  • Draconic Echo needs it's pulses reduced to one, restore Facet of Chaos protection and leave it alone.

Legendary Dragon

Again, most of those skills are quite fine tuned aside a few things.

  • True Nature is the best change Herald has seen in it's entire existence, I'm very glad Anet has done it but that nerf on Assassin for the radius is terrible, just remove the damage and restore the radius on it. Keep things uniform please. Edit: Also reduce the upkeep to 2 across all game modes, 3 is too much to make the player want to keep it's passive for a while in PvP/WvW.
  • Infuse Light is a strange one, given that it can be instant casted if prepared. It seems like it would be better off as a similar anti-burst like Warrior's Endure Pain at 2 seconds of effective time, but have it's base healing increased to compensate. 3 seconds really favors conditions and silly AoE damage sucking and that can be very unhealthy sometimes.
  • Gaze of Darkness changes are great, even though it was bugged for a while. The radius increase is quite welcomed but if the Revealed cannot be applied unless the foe is in stealth, I and most people would agree that they'd prefer the old one because prevention does a lot more than just hoping to time it right as Stealth is used, people can evade it. Also please, decrease it's cooldown to 20 seconds, 25 is too much and it makes the legend unable to keep up compared core legends.
  • Chaotic Release is an odd one, but it does deserve a lower cooldown at 30 to 25 seconds. Most core legends have more, reliable CC's that are not as costly. Again revert the protection nerf, it's unwarranted and ruins uniformity with the skills. Tackle Draconic Echo instead and reduce it's pulse to only only one in PvP/WvW

Renegade

Shortbow

Good, but EXTREMELY clunky..

  • Bloodbane Path increase the hitbox and velocity of the projectiles so that they consistently hit on targets that are idling on different slops. I can understand the meaning of having to hit a target that isn't moving, but missing even when standing still sometimes? That is not really nice.
  • Sevenshot needs to be a beautiful circle of arrow that projects in a concentrated dot in front of the player rather than forcing the player to have the perfect distance, timing and accuracy to land full damage while it's cool looking but a worthless design at any range that doesn't respect it. The new changes work great too, but the skill is definitely too good now, should the cooldown be 10 seconds.
  • Spiritcrush directional requirement is terrible, there shouldn't be a need for line of sight when arrows are shot strategically in a portal regardless. Bloodbane Path doesn't so why this one? A small cooldown increase to 10 seconds might also balance the shortbow better since it's really good with the new Sevenshot.
  • Scorchrazor ruins the flow with it's ¾ cast time, very often it goes on full cooldown even though the skill didn't even cast as the user try to kite. Make it uniform with the rest of it's skills with ½ cast time or fix the influence of movement on it.

Traits

All of those are really strong, it's hard to find any flaws into them. Maybe I haven't played enough Renegade but for the most part trying to come up with anything that doesn't seem overpowered to the specialization is really hard.

Legendary Renegade

Same for these, there's little to come up with without tipping the balance upside down. It's fairly well balanced.

  • Citadel Bombardment cooldown is the only one that stands out as why is it even so high in PvP/WvW? Should be the same that PvE has, the ordnance is pretty RNG and players have a rather small hitbox.

Closure

And that's it, I wanted to come up with this right before the patch and so I did with all the time I had to try out mostly everything. See if anything gets predicted or eventually tweaked to in the future. Coming from someone who plays other than Herald in PvP which is a lot of fun. Don't let people tell you it anything else isn't viable. It's quite powerful if you play as an actual Revenant and not the latter like other professions. Adapt to the playstyle, Anet has really put some thought into it and it's quite amazing all the things that can be pulled off despite being locked on specific set of skills.

Edit: Typo's.
Edit: Added Facet of Nature Nov. 22 2019
Edit: Added Ancient Echo Dec. 7 2019
Edit: Added Elevated Compassion Dec. 12 2019
Edit: Reflected on the new changes July 27 2020

Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

<1

Comments

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    100% agree where can I sign?

    Jokaurene

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh man. This is so well-put.

    This post sums up some of the best changes people have been suggesting for the lasy year.
    They don't require much, they're mostly numbers.

    I like them all. Lastly, I'd love to see ANet's response to Renegade.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

    You can actually do that with Sanctuary Runes per each hit you get because of the small healing even without Steadfast Rejuvenation, also it procs Unyielding Devotion every hit as well.

    Unless you think that it should happen without it I'm not sure if it's a good idea, Resilient Spirit has always been Herald more oriented IMO although Revenants do have the option to trait for Swiftness, Fury, Might and naturally follow with Alacrity and Stability from.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I would remove barrier from ventari trait and add very small barrier per hit on those vengeful hammers.

    You can actually do that with Sanctuary Runes per each hit you get because of the small healing even without Steadfast Rejuvenation, also it procs Unyielding Devotion every hit as well.

    Unless you think that it should happen without it I'm not sure if it's a good idea, Resilient Spirit has always been Herald more oriented IMO although Revenants do have the option to trait for Swiftness, Fury, Might and naturally follow with Alacrity and Stability from.

    I don’t think it would be OP, but it would depend the value Anet defines for that gain, maybe with runes and zerker/zealot gear could gain for some warriorish sturdiness feeling.
    20% of 60-80hp heals isn’t much.
    If the scaling quoficient value is low being zerker or with healing power value would not gain much, so that could avoid it reach broken values.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    • Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

    ehm NO kitten do you even know how much projectile blocks is there in pvp .....

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 19, 2019

    @Arkantos.7460 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    • Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

    ehm NO kitten do you even know how much projectile blocks is there in pvp .....

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

    People said the same thing about Death's Judgement losing it's unblockable factor, yet it's fine.

    The cooldown is 4 seconds, it would actually hit people more consistently no matter the terrain instead of having to be close up or play on non-existent flat lands. Can be made Unblockable with Shiro Ancient Echo, Phase Traversal and Malicious Reprisal strategically, Field of the Mists can take care of reflected projectiles.

    I don't want this skill to be a Mirror Blade clone with higher cooldown. It's low cooldown is what makes it effective.

    Anet could make the AoE effect go through small terrain objects and up walls but that's not happening. The only people that really cares about the current effect is WvW players with the large scale effectiveness of the skill when the scenario is proper and that's the biggest issue. Make the skill overall useful, not niche.

    They could also code it to be like a progressive Blunderbuss that cannot be reflected and only blocked with proper visual effects.

    The main argument is that the skill was always trash unless used on flat lands. The new changes actually buffed it's close damage while nerfing the far which is more than fine in regards to the silly yet cool design it was on paper, but as it still stands. It's not viable at long range with how it still works, given the current bugged form as well.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Id like to add we do need one more core weapon, a ranged condition based weapon. We lack one and we SHOULDN'T be required to run renegade to get access to one, I feel like this would make everything a bit smoother. Because as I've stated in numerous threads you can't move ahead and make a new elite spec without looking at what we lack, the most glaring issue is the secondary condition damage weapon for core. (Probably why renegade got shortbow)

    Id rather you give us a new core weapon (You did this with underwater and trident) so we can play the different builds effectively, because being condition revenant is hard due to it being limited to mostly melee. Unless you bring a hammer, but you don't hit hard enough to really bring much to the table on a ranged encounter which is unfortunate. Either that or make hammer function like trident and do damage based on your current legend, which would make it more tailored to your build though im not sure how that would work.

    Please A-net Give us one more core weapon, just so we can have something to go along with out condi. (Zerg battles suck because we have no option but to go melee as condi-rev. I run core Revenant predominantly and Id love to have a caster based ranged weapon preferably scepter focus...)

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Id like to add we do need one more core weapon, a ranged condition based weapon. We lack one and we SHOULDN'T be required to run renegade to get access to one, I feel like this would make everything a bit smoother. Because as I've stated in numerous threads you can't move ahead and make a new elite spec without looking at what we lack, the most glaring issue is the secondary condition damage weapon for core. (Probably why renegade got shortbow)

    Id rather you give us a new core weapon (You did this with underwater and trident) so we can play the different builds effectively, because being condition revenant is hard due to it being limited to mostly melee. Unless you bring a hammer, but you don't hit hard enough to really bring much to the table on a ranged encounter which is unfortunate. Either that or make hammer function like trident and do damage based on your current legend, which would make it more tailored to your build though im not sure how that would work.

    Please A-net Give us one more core weapon, just so we can have something to go along with out condi. (Zerg battles suck because we have no option but to go melee as condi-rev. I run core Revenant predominantly and Id love to have a caster based ranged weapon preferably scepter focus...)

    I agree, core Revenant could use Scepter at least with Trident legend mechanics. Doesn't need to be themed. It could work fine. Longbow could also be nice. Although I like the idea of going around with Scepter and Axe.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For what I care they could delete the whole class; I no longer play Rev in PvP. Dragonhunter provides me better results and can be played while taking a nap, which is perfect to confront the "skill" of the programmers and balance managers in this game... Fight ineptitude with laziness in an attrition battle; everyone wins.

  • These would be really great changes. I would sign it.

  • Disagree on:

    Death Strike: Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

    Incensed Response: Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes. It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

    Diabolic Inferno: Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%. If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

    Otherwise most changes you listed are good or at the very least neutral. Just a pretty hard disagree from me for the top 3 since I see them as being unneccessary nerfs or buffs in certain areas

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    Main-Hand Sword

    Tweaks have made it so the weapon is actually not too strong, not too weak. I wouldn't touch it.

    Only changes I'd like for the weapon are to fix how buggy sword 3 is, and to have sword 2 not track random objects in WvW. Otherwise I agree: it is a very solid weapon and doesn't need actual balance adjustments.

    Off-Hand Sword

    It's got weird unnecessary changes that definitely nerfed core Revenant as a whole and has made Staff a must have alternative.

    • Duelist Preparation needs to be brought back into the mix ahead of Shackling Waves and work like Counterattack from Ranger Greatsword, putting the simple gameplay and damage down significantly, providing some sustain without losing any of that damage. Taking out the "Must rush and jump only on everyone at once." type of mentality, we have Deathstrike for that.

    I would absolutely love to have some sort of offhand block restored to the core class. I have been suggesting this for a long time, and although I have suggested for a completely new offhand to fill this niche, I would be content with Duelist's Preparation making a return.

    Mace

    It feels just right, but could use one simple change.

    • Quickness needs to affect Echoing Eruption, it's one of the main damage output that cannot be helped which is already quite telegraphed. Leaps like Weaver and Holosmith already can be sped up, so this is no limitation whatsoever.

    Agreed. I love mace to pieces. It is such a great weapon and has clear counterplay, but is still very effective at its role. I'm on board with your idea here. To be honest I have tested this multiple times and never actually came to a conclusion....wasn't 100% sure it wasn't affected by quickness.

    Axe

    It's perfect, it hits that sweet spot where you can make it work with pretty much anything but also exceeds at what it's meant to do.

    One thing I'd like for axe is for it to count as a true shadowstep so you cannot get hit by AoE's along your path. Otherwise, the weapon is great. High impact weapons with solid counterplay are healthy.

    Staff

    It's in a great spot with the changes it's got, I know a lot of people got upset at the changes to the 2nd skill, I did too but this makes the whole weapon less trivial as well as adding value to the 5th skill, balancing it for already how strong it is. The 3rd skill was also no exception, extremely strong before, now there's some actual input to it.

    I wish staff did a better job at legitimately supporting, but it has such little room for buffs because it is such a phenomenal utility weapon. My one suggestion is to have the heal simply trigger PBAoE rather than at the location the cast time ends. The current mechanic makes it unnecessarily clunky if you are trying to heal a moving ally with it.

    Hammer

    Currently regarded as nerfed (Also Skill 2 broken, anet pls fix.), but overall by design all the skills should do the same damage, this uniformity compensates greatly for how telegraphed the skills are, still 2 things I would change but otherwise I consider it to be quite strong.

    • 5th Skill to do the same amount of damage as 2 and 3.
    • Rework the 2nd skill entirely as a large penetrating projectile, the current one makes it a clunky/nonviable weapon in most PvP maps due to terrain complexity.

    Eh, hammer 2's functionality should just be reverted pre-bug. I mean, the weapon is extremely niche, but it is good at its niche and I'd rather it stay as such. I don't think that just changing hammer 2 would make it a viable PvP weapon, tbh. I'd rather see the AA speed/aftercast adjusted.

    Invocation

    There's been a few changes here that were quite too much for Revenant and that they should be reviewed again for the sake of the class health as this is one of the main traitline used.

    • Incensed Response needed to be nerfed, I agree with Anet's reasoning, but not like this. Either reduce the Might Duration or the amount of Might gained. Do it for WvW as well, not just PvP, the synergy is broken on Herald, that's it. Otherwise it's useless.

    I agree with you here for WvW, but is it still problematic in PvP? Genuinely asking because it seems like it got hit haaaard in PvP. In WvW, the trait is dumb. I'd like to see it reworked because the ease at which 25 might stacks are obtainable is just silly. Along with that, I'd like to see all 25 self-stacking might potential to be hard nerfed on all classes. It's such a hyperinflation of one's stats and Herald's synergy is just unhealthy, especially combined with traits like Notoriety. Is it fun and does it give viability to less powerful builds? Yes, but I'd rather that be done through other means and not effortless 25 might stacks.

    • Charged Mists requirements are too high and makes it purely a PvE trait until the required energy is increased to 25, it's already hard enough to keep the energy low while being effective and stunbreaking at the same time, traits should work together not against each other. If you really want to make it casual, have no requirement at all and just grant 25 energy on legend swap in combat, players are giving up on instant invoking effects/critical chance for this, it wouldn't break balance at all.

    If I had to estimate, I'd say I have an approximate 85% success rate with proccing Charged Mists in WvW, but I would argue that it is probably due to the skill level of the enemy players being lower, and the game mode in general being more casual, so I see your point. 25 is a nice number, but perhaps start lower with 15 or 20? I am not opposed to it being 25, but perhaps it is just a personal thing that I like the challenge because 25 extra energy is a huge reward--considering that is 5 seconds worth of 0-upkeep energy regeneration--and should require finesse. I'd rather it be harder to execute with a meaty 25-energy reward than for the threshold to be lowered and eventually have it nerfed to a lower yield because it becomes so easy to proc.

    • Roiling Mists was nerfed along many things, including Main-Hand Sword and Incensed Response which was too much, it hit Revenant greatly and not so much for Herald nor Renegade. It needs to be brought back the way it was.

    I agree. This change felt misguided and I'd like to see it reverted. The only PvP I do is playing meme builds in the arena pit, but I feel for my PvP Revenant brethren on this one.

    Devastation

    Most changes have been justified, nothing to lose hope on. Damage was really high, but one trait really stands out.

    • Assassin's Annihilation should always Siphon no matter the direction that someone is facing, it's too situational and the ICD only makes that worst. Vengeful Hammers even though are hitting on the sides doesn't always count either. Comparably to Steadfast Rejuvenation, this trait has the potential to encourage aggressive play for sustain as well as giving the opportunity to use Versed in Stone more likely, given Shiro/Dwarf Revenants are extremely vulnerable to condition bursts.

    I'd be cool with that. I don't think it would be game-breaking by any means.

    Retribution

    The design of the traits is good, but some of the ICDs are making them bad.

    • Close Quarters is a very low bonus to trade off Planar Protection, considering it destroy projectiles at range at applies Weakness at close. 15-20% would be more reasonable given that there's nothing to gain from being "Close Quarters" with it.

    This trait is definitely eclipsed by Planar Protection, but perhaps have it scale based on range? A max of 20% damage reduction is huge, especially for an adept.

    • Spiritual Reckoning ICD is high for how short the boon is. Increasing the duration to 5 seconds would fix that. Removing the ICD would make it spammable which is bad.

    Yeah, the ICD is far too high. I think your suggestion is fine. I have also thought it'd be nice to make it apply AoE Retal since both the ICD is high and the duration is short.

    • Eye for an Eye ICD too high, asking for Jalis players to not get stunned every so often with all the boon removal, 25 seconds would be more reasonable, the trait really has to be good to justify not taking Dwarven Battle Training.

    This would definitely make the trait better, but I still would take Dwarven Battle Training over it in like almost every scenario. This would perhaps be too OP, but I still miss the old Herald major master trait that would apply 2s of AoE protection on heal usage. I would love to see it return here in place of its current form, to diversity group access to the boon beyond Glint.

    • Versed in Stone the toughness benefit in PvP is too low, should be at least as high as Armored Attack on Warrior.

    Yeah, I am surprised how low the toughness benefit of it is. Personally, I'd like to see the toughness benefit and the passive proc removed and for it to apply AoE stab in X radius with like a 45-second ICD or something. Potentially too high of Stability yield if using Jalis, but it would be a really awesome change for helping bolster support Rev in WvW.

    Salvation

    This traitline is actually good and fairly varied, the only problem is orbs. Please Anet, either rework the traits based on orbs altogether or make the orbs track players. There's too much visual clutter or RNG to make it viable. Fragments are already random enough.

    Yes please. Just rework the kitten orbs. I have been thinking about a couple quirky changes that they could do for the traitline, and to help gear it to more supportive options, here are a couple off-the-wall ideas I figured I'd share:
    -Vital Blessing: Reworked to Harmonic Inversion: Dark fields you apply are now light fields. Fire fields you apply are now water fields. Combo fields you apply gain increased radius. (A way of diversifying the role of mace, Mallyx, and other skills like Hammer 4 and Planar Protection).
    -Words of Censure: Reworked to Purifying Surge: Successful blast finishers remove conditions from nearby allies (5+s ICD). Apply regeneration when cleansing a conditoin from an ally.

    Legendary Stances

    Legendary Assassin

    The most popular so it's kept in check a lot, but there's still one thing that really needs to be changed.

    Agreed.

    Legendary Centaur

    This one is really powerful but requires such precise plays and in team fights it's always likely to be killed if targeted due to the following.

    • Project Tranquility should "tether" the Tablet and "follow" the player until Ventari's Will is used where manual control is took until Energy Expulsion is used to reset it back to tether. This is an important change that needs to be looked into with how clunky it is to handle, have the players will lose the benefits of using

    I have previously been against this concept, but I perhaps could see this working if Natural Harmony got a cast time. Even though I would fear changing Ventari in this sort of manner would be dumbing it down too much, it would make it significantly stronger in WvW.

    • Purifying Essence absolutely needs to be a stunbreak, make it happen so that the legend can finally step out of the Glint/Jalis combo's, it sucks to be so limited. There is too much CC in the game to say that one legend should not have one. Even if the Tablet can be handled while stunned among other things, the pressure is too great, Ventari bonuses are all outgoing, there's nothing to recover from a stunlock the moment a whole entire zerg decides to focus the user entering the stance. While at it, an additional condition for a total of 4 and 30 energy to unify around the other stunbreak skills.

    Yeah, agreed 100%.

    Legendary Demon

    Fantastic rework from Anet on that one, while I do miss the old AoE spam. This is miles better than the old glaring issues Unyielding Anguish and Embrace the Darkness had. Quite nearly perfect I'd say, but one thing that really needs to be added.

    Agreed. Mallyx feels juicy now. The more recent polish they did to it made the legend feel so good and is a blast to play. I'd possibly like to see some adjustments to power modifiers on Banish Enchantment or Embrace the Darkness to make it more versatile for power builds, but otherwise the legend feels really nice.

    Elite Specializations

    Herald

    Shield

    Good asset to any bruiser/sustain builds, but both skills could use some work.

    • Envoy of Exuberance is.. Alright, but please make the hitbox bigger, move faster as well as fixing Aegis blocking the skill.. Also the sending/returning energy to grant Protection consistently from to teammates/users, it has potent uses but those needs to be polished.

    Agreed. Additionally, I'd like for the traveling projectile to heal/grant protection and for the "blast" to extend boons by 2 seconds. That old GM Herald trait had some niche uses and reintroducing it would be a nice way of complementing Herald's boon focus, and giving a nice synergy with True Nature - Dragon.

    • Crystal Hybernation with such a big root might as well maybe make blocking 4 seconds, just like the same amount of pulses (Not sure on that one). Those pulses should also affect allies in a radius of 360, make Herald be more supportive oriented so that most can finally stop complaining at how selfish of a skill it is even though there's many like it in the game.

    This would be so sexy. Like possibly too strong with all of the healing modifiers Herald has access to? It would be like a smaller Empower, but with the possibility of having it cleanse 4x too. Even if it remained stationary it'd be so delicious for support specs.

    Traits

    Herald has only one trait that really is lacking.

    • Core Value needs to do twice of what it already does. Every benefits from it are not good enough to pick over Rising Momentum.

    Agreed. This trait is so boring. Alternatively, I'd like for it to reduce True Nature's cooldown by 20%.

    Legendary Dragon

    Again, most of those skills are quite fine tuned aside a few things.

    • True Nature is the best change Herald has seen in it's entire existence, I'm very glad Anet has done it but that nerf on Assassin for the radius is terrible, just remove the damage and restore the radius on it. Keep things uniform please.

    I'd be okay with that. I'd rather the more reliable boon removal functionality than the damage.

    • Gaze of Darkness changes are great, even though it was bugged for a while. The radius increase is quite welcomed but if the Revealed cannot be applied unless the foe is in stealth, I and most people would agree that they'd prefer the old one because prevention does a lot more than just hoping to time it right as Stealth is used, people can evade it.

    Yeah, it sucks to not be able to use it preemptively. I prefer the old version as well.

    • Chaotic Release is an odd one, does it really deserve to not have 20 seconds cooldown where we have a CC on all legends that have a much lower cooldown that shares similar if not more reliable features as they are much less telling than this skill. Pretty sure people were just thrown off by the fact it was quicker and not used often when it was buffed.

    Eh, 20s is so low. I'm on the fence on this honestly. 30s maybe?

    Renegade

    Shortbow

    Good, but EXTREMELY clunky..

    • Sevenshot needs to be a beautiful circle of arrow that projects in a concentrated dot in front of the player rather than forcing the player to have the perfect distance, timing and accuracy to land full damage while it's cool looking but a worthless design at any range that doesn't respect it.

    Dude, brilliant idea.

    • Spiritcrush directional requirement is terrible, there shouldn't be a need for line of sight when arrows are shot strategically in a portal regardless. Bloodbane Path doesn't so why this one?

    Yup, unnecessarily clunkiness to the skill. I could've sworn it didn't have this requirement immediately on PoF launch, but then it got added in. Could be misremembering.

    • Scorchrazor ruins the flow with it's ¾ cast time, very often it goes on full cooldown even though the skill didn't even cast as the user try to kite. Make it uniform with the rest of it's skills with ½ cast time or fix the influence of movement on it.

    I'm with the "fix the influence of movement on it." Sucks to have it fail randomly. Perhaps this is part of what you were implying, but I'd like for the user to rotate towards the target when casting the skill, like most skills do.

    Overall, some great ideas in there.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Disagree on:

    Death Strike: Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

    Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

    Incensed Response: Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes. It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

    I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

    Diabolic Inferno: Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%. If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

    This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    I think ham 4 should get changed to a 3 sec frontal block.
    citadel bombardment should be 15e in all modes with burns 2 stax at 2 sec.
    can't disagree with shield 5 allowing movement. would be nice if shield 4 prot was longer.
    would be nice if all for one affected citadel orders instead.
    finally, make renegade summons unkillable already...

    edit
    ventari still needs a stunbreak.
    orbs would be fine with bigger radius.
    tablet summon should be near instant.

    I think rev has a little too much quickness uptime but might just be me.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    Legendary Demon

    Fantastic rework from Anet on that one, while I do miss the old AoE spam. This is miles better than the old glaring issues Unyielding Anguish and Embrace the Darkness had. Quite nearly perfect I'd say, but one thing that really needs to be added.

    Agreed. Mallyx feels juicy now. The more recent polish they did to it made the legend feel so good and is a blast to play. I'd possibly like to see some adjustments to power modifiers on Banish Enchantment or Embrace the Darkness to make it more versatile for power builds, but otherwise the legend feels really nice.

    I tried Mallyx as Power, EtD is about on part with Vengeful Hammers but I'd buff it a little among the rest yeah.

    • Chaotic Release is an odd one, does it really deserve to not have 20 seconds cooldown where we have a CC on all legends that have a much lower cooldown that shares similar if not more reliable features as they are much less telling than this skill. Pretty sure people were just thrown off by the fact it was quicker and not used often when it was buffed.

    Eh, 20s is so low. I'm on the fence on this honestly. 30s maybe?

    I feel the same about it, but the way core revenant can CC chain so much feels like that it's not really unfair. Could just be me though.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I think ham 4 should get changed to a 3 sec frontal block.

    Will never and should never happen. They would ramp up the cd to 20 as its a block shield that you can be offensive behind. That it's cd is so low currently is amazing. Not enough pewpew rangers complaining about it in wvw I suppose.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Disagree on:

    Death Strike: Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

    Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

    I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

    Incensed Response: Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes. It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

    I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

    I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

    Diabolic Inferno: Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%. If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

    This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

    This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Disagree on:

    Death Strike: Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

    Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

    I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

    The skill was sped up 3 times in it's history, the second time was plenty.

    Incensed Response: Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes. It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

    I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

    I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

    I would rather see 2 Might that lasts for 8 seconds or 5 Might that lasts for 4 seconds, not 2 Might for 4 seconds. It's not a nerf, it's a buff to the current existing PvP split and should the WvW also have the same features. Given how the stats are handled already, easy 25 Might is too much.

    Diabolic Inferno: Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%. If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

    This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

    This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

    Torment in most PvE scenario's is never fulled used at it's best while Burning is, it's also easily accessible with Shortbow as well as Mace.

    As it currently stands Pulsating Pestilence is in a bad spot from it's design along with Maniacal Persistence, lot of damage wasted when on self too. Giving Burning 20% damage and duration with the bonus Burning every 8 seconds is pretty big and can actually compensate for the Torment damage lost given the right skills are used.

    I know that you see Diabolic Inferno as a DPS increase, but it's pretty insignificant. Torment has big numbers, but they're nothing compared what Burning could offer if it was changed this way, it could actually outclass it in fact while earning proper trait placements with Pulsating Pestilence.

    Maniacal Persistence needs to have Torment on self fixed with expertise/condition duration bonuses while keeping the low damaging factor so that it can be stacked and transferred even better, as little people know the Torment on self is actually powerful and nothing to mess around with, but until True Nature was changed it was impossible to transfer back. Now it is and it would be best if it could be done seamlessly on core specialization traits first hand.

    Making the traits be;

    • Extra and better Burning at a cost of better Torment/Torment application which is a good deal considered the bonuses given easily outclass Torment as a whole.
    • Improved Torment application as well as output to trade off better Burning and Torment.
    • Better Torment at a cost of application and better Burning.

    And finally it solves the inconsistent problems that Corruption had, at least with only Replenishing Despair left to fix.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Disagree on:

    Death Strike: Sure, it's fast with quickness, but awareness is good enough counterplay for this since you can see it coming from 1800 away (usually) and there's a big enough window after the first hit to dodge the second. Also, If someone uses Phase Traversal + Death Strike on you they're pretty much out of energy or have to swap legends asap so it leaves the Rev pretty vulnerable. It's not always a great combo.

    Not about counter play but how those changes only hurt core revenant and it break the game sync half the time. They were not as vulnerable also because of said Slow and Chill. Whenever do Shiro ends up vulnerable that's on a fresh swap, should no rev ever jump on someone like that without legend swap or energy.

    I'm not sure what you mean by it desyncing; I haven't ever had that happen to me as far as I can tell. Maybe it's a ping issue? I wouldn't mind getting the chill and the slow back, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost of having it be even slower when it's relatively easy to dodge and avoid as is.

    The skill was sped up 3 times in it's history, the second time was plenty.

    It was only sped up one time in its history according to the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike

    Incensed Response: Currently nerfed hard in PvP, I'm not sure what you want with it exactly since it already has lost 3 of its 5 might stacks there and you're looking to "reduce might duration" or "reduce overall stacks." Incensed Response is fine as is. More importantly it does not need to be nerfed in WvW since WvW balance factors in higher values for stats and traits across ALL classes. It would be an unneccessary nerf to Roaming Power Rev (and also Roaming Condi Rev) which already gets eaten alive by condi roamers like Mirage and isn't even one of the premier roaming classes (obviously still quite good if you're good at it, but is certainly not overused).

    I'm asking to restore the old and make a choice in between the latter instead of both.

    I guess I just see that as a waste of dev time then, since it's already nerfed where it was "overperforming" and it's not overperforming elsewhere (WvW, PvE).

    I would rather see 2 Might that lasts for 8 seconds or 5 Might that lasts for 4 seconds, not 2 Might for 4 seconds. It's not a nerf, it's a buff to the current existing PvP split and should the WvW also have the same features. Given how the stats are handled already, easy 25 Might is too much.

    I think a buff for the PvP version from 2 stacks 8s would be fine, but WVW roaming Rev doesn’t need a night gen decrease. Easy 25 is still fine for WvW roaming for the class and in zergs you get 25 might from allies anyway.

    Diabolic Inferno: Does NOT need a burning duration added to it in PvE. Condi Ren is already a top tier dps class in PvE, so adding more duration for things like Burning would just boost that damage even further which it doesn't need. However, for PvP/WvW, I could see this being somewhat useful, but they don't add functionality in one game mode without adding it to all of them, so the PvE +Burning Duration would have to be super low, like 5%. If this did happen, I would expect to see bare minimum small nerfs in PvE to compensate for the added damage.

    This compensates on Yearning Empowerment being no longer baseline and a choice in between the new Diabolic Inferno and Maniacal Persistence. With the new bug fix on Soulcleave's Summit, it could be interesting. It's hard to tell whether Torment or Burning would come up as even but for the most part, this does keep the PvE damage in check, perhaps slightly lower or slightly better.

    This would be a direct nerf to Condi Rev in PvE then, since it has always used either Diabolic Inferno or Maniacal Persistence for its DPS rotation. Yearning Empowerment would become mandatory since Torment is the main form of damage for the spec. I'm not in favor of this, especially since Condi Ren already has some of the highest, if not the highest ramp up time out of all the condi classes, plus requires a huge hitbox to reach its full potential, so it certainly doesn't need a damage reduction. Generally I'm against changes that will have a direct negative effect on PvE rev, especially since it's in a good place at the moment

    Torment in most PvE scenario's is never fulled used at it's best while Burning is, it's also easily accessible with Shortbow as well as Mace.

    As it currently stands Pulsating Pestilence is in a bad spot from it's design along with Maniacal Persistence, lot of damage wasted when on self too. Giving Burning 20% damage and duration with the bonus Burning every 8 seconds is pretty big and can actually compensate for the Torment damage lost given the right skills are used.

    I know that you see Diabolic Inferno as a DPS increase, but it's pretty insignificant. Torment has big numbers, but they're nothing compared what Burning could offer if it was changed this way, it could actually outclass it in fact while earning proper trait placements with Pulsating Pestilence.

    Maniacal Persistence needs to have Torment on self fixed with expertise/condition duration bonuses while keeping the low damaging factor so that it can be stacked and transferred even better, as little people know the Torment on self is actually powerful and nothing to mess around with, but until True Nature was changed it was impossible to transfer back. Now it is and it would be best if it could be done seamlessly on core specialization traits first hand.

    Making the traits be;

    • Extra and better Burning at a cost of better Torment/Torment application which is a good deal considered the bonuses given easily outclass Torment as a whole.
    • Improved Torment application as well as output to trade off better Burning and Torment.
    • Better Torment at a cost of application and better Burning.

    And finally it solves the inconsistent problems that Corruption had, at least with only Replenishing Despair left to fix.

    If pulsating pestilence is the issue you’re trying to fix then just move or get rid of opportune extraction; it’s not even a good trait to begin with and cRev would certainly benefit more

    Sure, Diabolic Inferno only adds like 1k, but it would still end up a 1k nerf if you had to choose Yearning Empowerment over it. Plus, Yearning Empowerment also gives +20% damage to torment, which is a direct modifier to the main damage source. I don’t think, based on the numbers, that +20% burning would be enough to make it top torment, but perhaps with baelfire runes it would be? Hard to say. Still think it would be a net nerf tho

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    I think there are a couple things you are missing ,also i want to make clear that im mostly pve (raids,fractas and so) than pvp.
    In devastation we have ferocious strikes and vicious lacerations in the same column, i think they should change ferocious strikes or take it out for other trait because both are self dmg increase traits that ,if you compare, even in pvp i think VL is much better . So maybe increasing FS to 350 could be better. Also i think assasins presence should be changed to another legend , i understand Devastation is shiros trait line but if you look at it closely you can see all the other traits in it give personal buffs while AP is a group buff so putting it in invocation could be better and maybe changing it ,to put an example:
    Legendary presence : in accordance with the legend you are in this moment you give a buff to you group. Shiro being 150 feroc/power, jalis 150 though ,ventary 150healing power, mallynx 150 condidmg, glint 150concentration,kalla 150feroc/expertise.
    Also while agree that sword 4 would be good with a block i think you could make shield block better(letting you move for example) and make sword off be purely offensive with the risk of not being able to block .
    Pls make sword 3 animation a bit faster or smooth as i think that the "cast" or animation is too slow and seems akward (at least with my charr)
    I agree that needing to be under 10 energy to get that 25 extra is difficult in pvp if not impossible so i agree in that trait chaning and maybe getting a trait that increases our energy cap .
    Regarding true nature i think glints one is great while the other ones are mostly usseles , i mean theyre not bad but either other classes or ourself with other skills can make something similar or better so maybe it should be changed to get something more unique from other legends.Maybe shiro giving a bit more att speed ,jalis i dont know ,ventari cleansing condis ,and mallynx pulsing condis (triing not to get it broken) . But to tell the truth i think that core revenant f2 turning into facet of nature would be better , i mean a not upkeep skill that replenish 30 energy and gives a buff like the ones we already have for 10 seconds or so , it would make it a fresh air between all the glints upkeep ,maintain its use and also help revenants with energy sustain.
    In mallynx i would merge the heal and pain absortion because you usually have to use them together (as i have seen)
    And one last thing , i understand that revenants have 10 skills in stead of 5 but we have a lot of skills that are used only in certain circunstances and in others are useless so please make one skill more per legend or let us use racial skills .
    Im not sure if you agree with me or not but thats just my opinion if you have a different one just tell us what do you think and maybe between all of us we can make revenant a great class (more than it is mow without being broken)

  • Tammuz.7361Tammuz.7361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

    indeed, this would pretty much kill rev off in wvw, and kill the game for me

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tammuz.7361 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Hammer 2 as a projectile would trashcan the skill even more.

    indeed, this would pretty much kill rev off in wvw, and kill the game for me

    I mean right?
    the number of revs in zergs has tanked and literally nothing has changed,
    just lol...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    I see oposite. on 50man squad i usualy see 5 rev max. Hammer is just so bad right now. Change to skill 2 or even 1 would be good. Projectile or not. Rev is now without power blob weapons cuz sword is bad for this.

    Jokaurene

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Remove Kalla stacks.
    Buff axe 2&3 and reduce their cast time to 0.5 secs as well.
    Renegade, needs so much work and re-work. I will just pass on it.
    Herald, Draconic Fortitude, increase fire duration and fire damage by 10%.
    Herald, Draconic Echo, using a facet skill inflicts 1 stack of burning for 5 secs to all targets in 240 radius.
    Shield, 5, Crystal Hibernation, not be a self root (and change whatever else to make that work).
    Mallyx, Pain Absorption, cost reduced to 10 energy and now has a 10 sec CD.
    Mallyx, Banish Enchantment, instead of removing 3 boons, corrupt 2 boons.
    Jalis, Rite of the Great Dwarf, 10 energy cost and now has 30 sec CD.
    Retribution, Versed in Stone, no auto trigger. Now reduced CD by 20% of Rite of the Great Dwarf, in addition to what it already does.
    Staff AA, remove the orbs. Increase damage by 10%. Will need to change in salvation all the healing orb kitten. It does not work anyway.
    Staff 2, increase damage by 15% (PvE only).

  • Tammuz.7361Tammuz.7361 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    I see oposite. on 50man squad i usualy see 5 rev max. Hammer is just so bad right now. Change to skill 2 or even 1 would be good. Projectile or not. Rev is now without power blob weapons cuz sword is bad for this.

    turning into a projectile = gets reflected, blocked, etc = now useless and dead skill in wvw

    turning something into a projectile is how you remove the skill entirely from relevance in wvw, it would now literally deal more damage to allies than enemies, this would be the end of rev which has already seen its core legends gutted in wvw.

    they had the pathing correctly working BEFORE the october patch, they simply need to fix whatever they broke in the october patch.

    on another note: would be kinda nice if brutality procced with legend change in addition to weapon swap, would mean it might actually get used instead of swift termination which is basically always better right now.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054

    It was only sped up one time in its history according to the wiki https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathstrike

    It was added in a non balance patch to be about 25% faster then they sped it up again by 50% for like quarter of a second cast. Im trying to find it but I do recall, Deathstrike to be painfully slow even with Quickness, then it was buffed at least 2 times to be where it's now. They've messed around with that skill so much I lost count.

    I think a buff for the PvP version from 2 stacks 8s would be fine, but WVW roaming Rev doesn’t need a night gen decrease. Easy 25 is still fine for WvW roaming for the class and in zergs you get 25 might from allies anyway.

    For Incensed they're looking at preventing solo 25 might generation, so might as well suggest them something that makes sense and won't gut it too much.

    If pulsating pestilence is the issue you’re trying to fix then just move or get rid of opportune extraction; it’s not even a good trait to begin with and cRev would certainly benefit more

    >

    Sure, Diabolic Inferno only adds like 1k, but it would still end up a 1k nerf if you had to choose Yearning Empowerment over it. Plus, Yearning Empowerment also gives +20% damage to torment, which is a direct modifier to the main damage source. I don’t think, based on the numbers, that +20% burning would be enough to make it top torment, but perhaps with baelfire runes it would be? Hard to say. Still think it would be a net nerf tho

    That trait is also super useful since it always steal stability first if any, pretty huge nerf to remove it. Just trying to make Corruption work properly since all traits are minorly okay or useless/counter productive to the nature of the gameplay. I'm sure with all the Burning, it would actually just move things around or improve them slightly.

    @zaswer.5246
    In devastation we have ferocious strikes and vicious lacerations in the same column, i think they should change ferocious strikes or take it out for other trait because both are self dmg increase traits that ,if you compare, even in pvp i think VL is much better . So maybe increasing FS to 350 could be better.

    Ferocious strikes is just slightly better if you have 100% crits with anything but two handed, something they made impossible and so should be reworked.

    Also i think assasins presence should be changed to another legend , i understand Devastation is shiros trait line but if you look at it closely you can see all the other traits in it give personal buffs while AP is a group buff so putting it in invocation could be better and maybe changing it ,to put an example: Legendary presence : in accordance with the legend you are in this moment you give a buff to you group. Shiro being 150 feroc/power, jalis 150 though ,ventary 150healing power, mallynx 150 condidmg, glint 150concentration,kalla 150feroc/expertise.

    They'd have to remove one trait of Invocation and I'd prefer not, because they're all useful in one way or other.

    Also while agree that sword 4 would be good with a block i think you could make shield block better(letting you move for example) and make sword off be purely offensive with the risk of not being able to block . Pls make sword 3 animation a bit faster or smooth as i think that the "cast" or animation is too slow and seems akward (at least with my charr)

    Shield is not moving anytime soon and it's honestly no big deal. Same for Sword 3, it's tell is meant for counter play along the common Quickness. Sword 4 needs to come back however.

    Regarding true nature i think glints one is great while the other ones are mostly usseles , i mean theyre not bad but either other classes or ourself with other skills can make something similar or better so maybe it should be changed to get something more unique from other legends.Maybe shiro giving a bit more att speed ,jalis i dont know ,ventari cleansing condis ,and mallynx pulsing condis (triing not to get it broken) . But to tell the truth i think that core revenant f2 turning into facet of nature would be better , i mean a not upkeep skill that replenish 30 energy and gives a buff like the ones we already have for 10 seconds or so , it would make it a fresh air between all the glints upkeep ,maintain its use and also help revenants with energy sustain. In mallynx i would merge the heal and pain absortion because you usually have to use them together (as i have seen)

    True Nature upkeep should be buffed to consume 2 instead of 3, it works great as it is otherwise, should not be touched as the effects are quite amazing.

    I agree that needing to be under 10 energy to get that 25 extra is difficult in pvp if not impossible so i agree in that trait chaning and maybe getting a trait that increases our energy cap .

    Revenants can jump on people and deal a ton of things at once, the 50% cap is for balance, that's why it's combat only.

    And one last thing , i understand that revenants have 10 skills in stead of 5 but we have a lot of skills that are used only in certain circunstances and in others are useless so please make one skill more per legend or let us use racial skills .

    Racial skills weren't added probably because it'd be too complicated.

    @otto.5684
    Remove Kalla stacks.

    Kalla stacks are for people to keep momentum.

    Buff axe 2&3 and reduce their cast time to 0.5 secs as well.

    Why buff axe? It's fine right now.

    Renegade, needs so much work and re-work. I will just pass on it.

    Renegade is in a good spot, the hate is just unwarranted and it's not used like it should most of the time.

    Herald, Draconic Fortitude, increase fire duration and fire damage by 10%.

    That 10% Health is there to make Infuse Light relevant. No need to change it.

    Herald, Draconic Echo, using a facet skill inflicts 1 stack of burning for 5 secs to all targets in 240 radius.

    That's unnecessary of a buff.

    Shield, 5, Crystal Hibernation, not be a self root (and change whatever else to make that work).

    Shield 5 doesn't need movement, it needs team utility.

    Mallyx, Pain Absorption, cost reduced to 10 energy and now has a 10 sec CD.

    That's a big nerf to Mallyx, not needed.

    Mallyx, Banish Enchantment, instead of removing 3 boons, corrupt 2 boons.

    Too easy to spam and could make Mallyx OP pretty fast. Removing more is still somewhat better also.

    Jalis, Rite of the Great Dwarf, 10 energy cost and now has 30 sec CD.

    That's a big nerf to Dwarf.. Just no.

    Retribution, Versed in Stone, no auto trigger. Now reduced CD by 20% of Rite of the Great Dwarf, in addition to what it already does.

    Just.. It doesn't help, too much nerf.

    Staff AA, remove the orbs. Increase damage by 10%. Will need to change in salvation all the healing orb kitten. It does not work anyway.

    If orbs actually tracked, it would work. Right now the ceiling of effort is too high.

    Staff 2, increase damage by 15% (PvE only).

    Staff doesn't need to be stronger than Dual Swords, it's in a good spot and should stay in that good spot.

    @Tammuz.7361
    turning into a projectile = gets reflected, blocked, etc = now useless and dead skill in wvw

    turning something into a projectile is how you remove the skill entirely from relevance in wvw, it would now literally deal more damage to allies than enemies, this would be the end of rev which has already seen its core legends gutted in wvw.

    they had the pathing correctly working BEFORE the october patch, they simply need to fix whatever they broke in the october patch.

    Core legends are fine..

    I had yet to edit that CoR should be more like a progressive frontal rectangle skill like Blunderbuss from engineer rather than an "actual" projectile. They could always give it a non reflect factor because of the nature of it's function while not being so terrain dependant, it's dumb and pointless.

    on another note: would be kinda nice if brutality procced with legend change in addition to weapon swap, would mean it might actually get used instead of swift termination which is basically always better right now.

    Brutality should stay as it is so that Quickness is predictable. It's more productive that way.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Just to add my 2 cents. Since it looks like that we are never going to copy back conditions with EtD, the heal skill should remove conditions completely. Pain absord needs to get a rework, maybe not even a big one but something like insta cast stunbreak blindand current condi transfer to ourself removed cause its old desing. I would really like to see banish corrupt boons as well as right now we have 0 condi coverage. Thats it about Mallyx

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shield needs a rework or at the very least, remove the root on 5.

    Renegade outside of raiding is complete dog kitten, including the shortbow. It’d be nice to not be pigeonholed into Herald for pvp.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Scoobaniec.9561
    Just to add my 2 cents. Since it looks like that we are never going to copy back conditions with EtD, the heal skill should remove conditions completely. Pain absord needs to get a rework, maybe not even a big one but something like insta cast stunbreak blindand current condi transfer to ourself removed cause its old desing. I would really like to see banish corrupt boons as well as right now we have 0 condi coverage. Thats it about Mallyx

    I don't know how Mallyx was played pre-hot but as of now the playstyle is meant to be stacking conditions on self then transfering to counter pressure. So removing conditions is not something that Mallyx needs.

    Empowering Misery does need baseline Resistance so that Demonic Defiance is less mandatory but the idea is to keep as many conditions on yourself then sent them back, doing that to Mallyx would be an unnecessary nerf and also make it a copy of Consume Conditions.

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Shield needs a rework or at the very least, remove the root on 5.

    Removing the root will make it superior to Warrior block, it would need a cooldown higher than even Chronomancer has and that's a bad idea given the flow of the profession. Being able to move barely does anything given Herald has so much utility, it's fair.

    What the shield could use is teamwork oriented buffs that would make the root a give away for the team to stick around, such as the suggestion given that the skill effects are done in a radius.

    Renegade outside of raiding is complete dog kitten, including the shortbow. It’d be nice to not be pigeonholed into Herald for pvp.

    I can teach you how to play Revenant and Renegade if you really feel stuck to Herald, it's a lie that there's no option for the profession in PvP, there's plenty to do that Herald can't achieve.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Jalis' Healing could give some barriere depending on the removed conditions. Its pretty weak due to its looong cast time

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Jalis' Healing could give some barriere depending on the removed conditions. Its pretty weak due to its looong cast time

    Totally agree to that, although it does have weak total healing, that's because of the tankiness, traits and also the access to another heal skill. Barrier would simply reinforce players to use at a good time, just like Empowering Misery which is what Anet should encourage because most of the Healing skills on Revenant have a special condition that makes them much better at certain opportunities than others, it's a fun aspect.

    As it stands Soothing Stone "is" good enough but it's the very conventional kind that pressure isn't gonna be re-applied fast in all sorts. It deserves that buff because the latter would require player skill and timing in a way that isn't significant enough to be overpowered.

    It's regardless well known that a lot of times when the skill is done, the healed damage is already back because pressure is often absurd as Jalis is meant to take that much and we all know how superior that makes Infuse Light in that regard vulnerability aside, the Healing skill is often used in a pinch and this would alleviate how it's easy to turn around a Jalis fight because it's based on a lot of momentum.

    So yeah, remove all conditions for barrier would make people stop complaining about Revenant and it's weakness to them when not a Mallyx user. Even when I am not a Mallyx user myself, it happens that I have nearly all conditions of the game on me because of the ability to tank, it's really hard to get out of those situations as anything else but Mallyx, so power users should really be given the opportunity to be rewarded when they pull off their healing at the right time, like I said it's doable right now but it's unreal how convenient it has to be and the reward being bare survival or half alleviation of the damage.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561
    Just to add my 2 cents. Since it looks like that we are never going to copy back conditions with EtD, the heal skill should remove conditions completely. Pain absord needs to get a rework, maybe not even a big one but something like insta cast stunbreak blindand current condi transfer to ourself removed cause its old desing. I would really like to see banish corrupt boons as well as right now we have 0 condi coverage. Thats it about Mallyx

    I don't know how Mallyx was played pre-hot but as of now the playstyle is meant to be stacking conditions on self then transfering to counter pressure. So removing conditions is not something that Mallyx needs.

    Empowering Misery does need baseline Resistance so that Demonic Defiance is less mandatory but the idea is to keep as many conditions on yourself then sent them back, doing that to Mallyx would be an unnecessary nerf and also make it a copy of Consume Conditions.

    What part of the kit says the playstyle is to stack conditions on yourself when all you have is 1 GM trait to transfer on legend swap, not linked whatsoever with Mallyx itself?
    Both heal and pain absort are coming from old desing

    Back pre HoT Mallyx skills worked like corruption for necro. All skills provided self harm conditions and EtD was copying 1 stack of all conditions on you with 3sec duration. For example 1 stack of burn for 3sec, 1 bleed for 3 sec immo for 3sec, fear for 3sec etc (i managed to fear 1 necro for 9sec this way or immo a mesmer for 12sec). Right now theres nothing that would support said playstyle

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561
    Just to add my 2 cents. Since it looks like that we are never going to copy back conditions with EtD, the heal skill should remove conditions completely. Pain absord needs to get a rework, maybe not even a big one but something like insta cast stunbreak blindand current condi transfer to ourself removed cause its old desing. I would really like to see banish corrupt boons as well as right now we have 0 condi coverage. Thats it about Mallyx

    I don't know how Mallyx was played pre-hot but as of now the playstyle is meant to be stacking conditions on self then transfering to counter pressure. So removing conditions is not something that Mallyx needs.

    Empowering Misery does need baseline Resistance so that Demonic Defiance is less mandatory but the idea is to keep as many conditions on yourself then sent them back, doing that to Mallyx would be an unnecessary nerf and also make it a copy of Consume Conditions.

    What part of the kit says the playstyle is to stack conditions on yourself when all you have is 1 GM trait to transfer on legend swap, not linked whatsoever with Mallyx itself?
    Both heal and pain absort are coming from old desing

    Back pre HoT Mallyx skills worked like corruption for necro. All skills provided self harm conditions and EtD was copying 1 stack of all conditions on you with 3sec duration. For example 1 stack of burn for 3sec, 1 bleed for 3 sec immo for 3sec, fear for 3sec etc (i managed to fear 1 necro for 9sec this way or immo a mesmer for 12sec). Right now theres nothing that would support said playstyle

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Thats more to do with lingering design from HoT beta if we're honest.

    HoT beta saw that all utilities on mallyx, heal skill included, self-inflicted condition. To boot, EtD copied a condition every pulse, and several traits (at the time) either healed you, gave increased damage (bolstered anguish), or increasing critical chance (maniacal persistence) based on conditions currently on you. Anet gutted this play style piroir to HoT launch by removing the condition copy on EtD, and removing on self-inflicted conditions, and then later removing the increased damage per condition/critical chance because "anti-synergy with group play".

    It wasn't until a year later (june 26, 2016) they actually added the condition copy back in the form of pulsating pestilence, which didn't transfer until 2 years after that.

    Mallyx design in current, in regards to pvp, is either by face tanking a condi spec and transferring 6 condi via legend swap&herald f2 or by spamming skills under EtD for super torment pulses. If the intention of anet is to take condi off allies and transfer them then it isn't working as the cost vs what u actually put out isn't enough, especially in a mostly power based meta (yes mirage and necro exist but theyare the exception, not the rule). In regards to PvE, there isn't enough condi output from enemies for this even be remotely relevant. So it fails on every front.

    I would like to see the "empowered by conditions" playstyle return for mallyx but self-inflicted conditions would have to make a return, and traits would have to be reworked such that the buffs that the inflicted conditions trigger would have to have durations unattached to the conditions on you. For clarity-only example: being inflicted with a condition gives you a stack of a buff that increases your condition damage by 5% per stack for 10 seconds (example only). Something like this, I can't see it working any other way personally.

    A boon duration & condition damage stat-spread would also go a long way to encourage it as well but that could have unforeseen balance problems with other classes.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561
    Just to add my 2 cents. Since it looks like that we are never going to copy back conditions with EtD, the heal skill should remove conditions completely. Pain absord needs to get a rework, maybe not even a big one but something like insta cast stunbreak blindand current condi transfer to ourself removed cause its old desing. I would really like to see banish corrupt boons as well as right now we have 0 condi coverage. Thats it about Mallyx

    I don't know how Mallyx was played pre-hot but as of now the playstyle is meant to be stacking conditions on self then transfering to counter pressure. So removing conditions is not something that Mallyx needs.

    Empowering Misery does need baseline Resistance so that Demonic Defiance is less mandatory but the idea is to keep as many conditions on yourself then sent them back, doing that to Mallyx would be an unnecessary nerf and also make it a copy of Consume Conditions.

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Shield needs a rework or at the very least, remove the root on 5.

    Removing the root will make it superior to Warrior block, it would need a cooldown higher than even Chronomancer has and that's a bad idea given the flow of the profession. Being able to move barely does anything given Herald has so much utility, it's fair.

    What the shield could use is teamwork oriented buffs that would make the root a give away for the team to stick around, such as the suggestion given that the skill effects are done in a radius.

    Renegade outside of raiding is complete dog kitten, including the shortbow. It’d be nice to not be pigeonholed into Herald for pvp.

    I can teach you how to play Revenant and Renegade if you really feel stuck to Herald, it's a lie that there's no option for the profession in PvP, there's plenty to do that Herald can't achieve.

    I'm going to disagree with you that it'll be better than warrior shield. You don't need to change anything with shield if you remove the root. If they brought back the defiance bar then sure, keep the root. But considering the state of the game, the skill needs to be brought back to the Mendoza line at least.

    Also going to disagree that you think Renegade is remotely on par with other specs. Herald is the class meta and by a large margin. Why would you kitten yourself by not playing it?

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 22, 2019

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Thats more to do with lingering design from HoT beta if we're honest.

    HoT beta saw that all utilities on mallyx, heal skill included, self-inflicted condition. To boot, EtD copied a condition every pulse, and several traits (at the time) either healed you, gave increased damage (bolstered anguish), or increasing critical chance (maniacal persistence) based on conditions currently on you. Anet gutted this play style piroir to HoT launch by removing the condition copy on EtD, and removing on self-inflicted conditions, and then later removing the increased damage per condition/critical chance because "anti-synergy with group play".

    It wasn't until a year later (june 26, 2016) they actually added the condition copy back in the form of pulsating pestilence, which didn't transfer until 2 years after that.

    Mallyx design in current, in regards to pvp, is either by face tanking a condi spec and transferring 6 condi via legend swap&herald f2 or by spamming skills under EtD for super torment pulses. If the intention of anet is to take condi off allies and transfer them then it isn't working as the cost vs what u actually put out isn't enough, especially in a mostly power based meta (yes mirage and necro exist but theyare the exception, not the rule). In regards to PvE, there isn't enough condi output from enemies for this even be remotely relevant. So it fails on every front.

    I would like to see the "empowered by conditions" playstyle return for mallyx but self-inflicted conditions would have to make a return, and traits would have to be reworked such that the buffs that the inflicted conditions trigger would have to have durations unattached to the conditions on you. For clarity-only example: being inflicted with a condition gives you a stack of a buff that increases your condition damage by 5% per stack for 10 seconds (example only). Something like this, I can't see it working any other way personally.

    A boon duration & condition damage stat-spread would also go a long way to encourage it as well but that could have unforeseen balance problems with other classes.

    Well put tbh. I also forgot about the fact that Mallyx skills were getting stronger with more conditions on. None of that is the case anymore. Found the list of beta Mallyx skills and traits
    gw2-revenant-mallyx-skills.jpg

    gw2-corruption-revenant-traits1.jpg

    As we can see current pain absort and heal are relics of the past that need to be updated

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Thats more to do with lingering design from HoT beta if we're honest.

    HoT beta saw that all utilities on mallyx, heal skill included, self-inflicted condition. To boot, EtD copied a condition every pulse, and several traits (at the time) either healed you, gave increased damage (bolstered anguish), or increasing critical chance (maniacal persistence) based on conditions currently on you. Anet gutted this play style piroir to HoT launch by removing the condition copy on EtD, and removing on self-inflicted conditions, and then later removing the increased damage per condition/critical chance because "anti-synergy with group play".

    It wasn't until a year later (june 26, 2016) they actually added the condition copy back in the form of pulsating pestilence, which didn't transfer until 2 years after that.

    Mallyx design in current, in regards to pvp, is either by face tanking a condi spec and transferring 6 condi via legend swap&herald f2 or by spamming skills under EtD for super torment pulses. If the intention of anet is to take condi off allies and transfer them then it isn't working as the cost vs what u actually put out isn't enough, especially in a mostly power based meta (yes mirage and necro exist but theyare the exception, not the rule). In regards to PvE, there isn't enough condi output from enemies for this even be remotely relevant. So it fails on every front.

    I would like to see the "empowered by conditions" playstyle return for mallyx but self-inflicted conditions would have to make a return, and traits would have to be reworked such that the buffs that the inflicted conditions trigger would have to have durations unattached to the conditions on you. For clarity-only example: being inflicted with a condition gives you a stack of a buff that increases your condition damage by 5% per stack for 10 seconds (example only). Something like this, I can't see it working any other way personally.

    A boon duration & condition damage stat-spread would also go a long way to encourage it as well but that could have unforeseen balance problems with other classes.

    Well put tbh. I also forgot about the fact that Mallyx skills were getting stronger with more conditions on. None of that is the case anymore. Found the list of beta Mallyx skills and traits
    gw2-revenant-mallyx-skills.jpg

    gw2-corruption-revenant-traits1.jpg

    As we can see current pain absort and heal are relics of the past that need to be updated

    if thats really coming this way to mallyx and corruption, then i can see having fun with those both :3

  • I've been playing a lot of shortbow renegade in pvp and it’s actually pretty good with just a few things holding it back.

    The worst bug and the thing that gets me killed the most is that you can’t cast summons from no port spots (or on to no port spots). You get a no path to target error, which while kiting often means death.

    You already covered shortbow pretty well so need to rehash that.

    As far as QoL, I would love to see the cast time of the Kalla elite be lowered. 1 sec is just too long. A reduction in the upkeep cost would be nice, but the cast time is brutal.

    Also, increasing the duration of Kalla’s fervor would make upkeep less of a hassle. Currently without hitting anything, with the middle grandmaster trait that extends duration, you have a 2 sec window to recast f1 to maintain might stacks and kalla’s fervor, which is just too short. You already have a cast time, 10 sec recharge, and energy cost to use f1 and if you miss that 2 sec window you get nothing.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Thats more to do with lingering design from HoT beta if we're honest.

    HoT beta saw that all utilities on mallyx, heal skill included, self-inflicted condition. To boot, EtD copied a condition every pulse, and several traits (at the time) either healed you, gave increased damage (bolstered anguish), or increasing critical chance (maniacal persistence) based on conditions currently on you. Anet gutted this play style piroir to HoT launch by removing the condition copy on EtD, and removing on self-inflicted conditions, and then later removing the increased damage per condition/critical chance because "anti-synergy with group play".

    It wasn't until a year later (june 26, 2016) they actually added the condition copy back in the form of pulsating pestilence, which didn't transfer until 2 years after that.

    Mallyx design in current, in regards to pvp, is either by face tanking a condi spec and transferring 6 condi via legend swap&herald f2 or by spamming skills under EtD for super torment pulses. If the intention of anet is to take condi off allies and transfer them then it isn't working as the cost vs what u actually put out isn't enough, especially in a mostly power based meta (yes mirage and necro exist but theyare the exception, not the rule). In regards to PvE, there isn't enough condi output from enemies for this even be remotely relevant. So it fails on every front.

    I would like to see the "empowered by conditions" playstyle return for mallyx but self-inflicted conditions would have to make a return, and traits would have to be reworked such that the buffs that the inflicted conditions trigger would have to have durations unattached to the conditions on you. For clarity-only example: being inflicted with a condition gives you a stack of a buff that increases your condition damage by 5% per stack for 10 seconds (example only). Something like this, I can't see it working any other way personally.

    A boon duration & condition damage stat-spread would also go a long way to encourage it as well but that could have unforeseen balance problems with other classes.

    Just going to say right away that Revenant can face tank all forms of damage, not just conditions.

    How is it not working? It does exactly the same as Necromancer, you can't have any better even though it is in many situations.

    I don't see how it's not inflicting "enough" damage when the entire setup is an oppressive and defensive aspect, saying that people just have to spam skill is half truth also in PvP when in no regards to your mention that people will let that happen freely, the strategy is to work with your other skills while you can still inflict torment, not just "spam" like nobody would stop you. The damage is extremely high and it's a big lie to say that it's not viable, if we have to nitpick from the only thing I shared, I can make an entire montage of all the things I've done on with Viper's on Revenant and Sage's on Herald, that I've also fought many of the best and actually won more than a few.

    Another thing people miss out on the "transfer" aspect is that it has "Maximum Target of 5" to Both" which means you can do a total of times 5 the effect of the skill, so 15 conditions transfers on a single legend swap while F2 does 10 and up to 15 also with Core Value in both perfect scenarios. The likely hood of it happening isn't as high in PvP but possible in certain objective fights which also Call to Anguish contributes to make those much easier to do, but given that already doing it to 3 people, 9 conditions is more than enough. In WvW blobs that aspect is quite chaotic and can make huge impacts into the fight if everything lines up mostly okay as with the Demon Facet it's possible to affect 10 allies passively, Pain Absorption is mandatory to begin with before using it.

    Also to mention that Pain Absorption does not remove more than 1 is because it grants 2 seconds Resistance to allies which is already a lot compared other classes that barely gets any at all. It can be improved to 4 seconds and be permanent on self with proper gear, that's extremely strong and the reason why it's so low.

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Because as the design suggest, you feast on anguish.

    You absorb people's pain or pain given to you and are rewarded with it at your own benefit to use. The names are big give aways even with Herald as the Facets are one part of the legend/subject of the entity and so on Demon takes away pain to feast which is also more effective than Pain Absorption but grant no Resistance which means both need to be used strategically and when you express the True Nature of it, you spread it all out to the enemies.

    You are Empowered by the misery others that you take from others as well as those that give it to you.

    https://i.gyazo.com/ef8f8904a90fb885f618daf4846b889b.gif

    The way you explain it tells me that very far back then it was much more simple, but I don't expect it to work today given the conditions game did change drastically. I still can't find the info that supports your mentions on the wiki though.

    Thats more to do with lingering design from HoT beta if we're honest.

    HoT beta saw that all utilities on mallyx, heal skill included, self-inflicted condition. To boot, EtD copied a condition every pulse, and several traits (at the time) either healed you, gave increased damage (bolstered anguish), or increasing critical chance (maniacal persistence) based on conditions currently on you. Anet gutted this play style piroir to HoT launch by removing the condition copy on EtD, and removing on self-inflicted conditions, and then later removing the increased damage per condition/critical chance because "anti-synergy with group play".

    It wasn't until a year later (june 26, 2016) they actually added the condition copy back in the form of pulsating pestilence, which didn't transfer until 2 years after that.

    Mallyx design in current, in regards to pvp, is either by face tanking a condi spec and transferring 6 condi via legend swap&herald f2 or by spamming skills under EtD for super torment pulses. If the intention of anet is to take condi off allies and transfer them then it isn't working as the cost vs what u actually put out isn't enough, especially in a mostly power based meta (yes mirage and necro exist but theyare the exception, not the rule). In regards to PvE, there isn't enough condi output from enemies for this even be remotely relevant. So it fails on every front.

    I would like to see the "empowered by conditions" playstyle return for mallyx but self-inflicted conditions would have to make a return, and traits would have to be reworked such that the buffs that the inflicted conditions trigger would have to have durations unattached to the conditions on you. For clarity-only example: being inflicted with a condition gives you a stack of a buff that increases your condition damage by 5% per stack for 10 seconds (example only). Something like this, I can't see it working any other way personally.

    A boon duration & condition damage stat-spread would also go a long way to encourage it as well but that could have unforeseen balance problems with other classes.

    Well put tbh. I also forgot about the fact that Mallyx skills were getting stronger with more conditions on. None of that is the case anymore. Found the list of beta Mallyx skills and traits
    gw2-revenant-mallyx-skills.jpg

    gw2-corruption-revenant-traits1.jpg

    As we can see current pain absort and heal are relics of the past that need to be updated

    That appears counter productive compared to the new Mallyx and very very very weak to anything power.

    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    @Kalsa.1580 said:
    I've been playing a lot of shortbow renegade in pvp and it’s actually pretty good with just a few things holding it back.

    The worst bug and the thing that gets me killed the most is that you can’t cast summons from no port spots (or on to no port spots). You get a no path to target error, which while kiting often means death.

    You already covered shortbow pretty well so need to rehash that.

    As far as QoL, I would love to see the cast time of the Kalla elite be lowered. 1 sec is just too long. A reduction in the upkeep cost would be nice, but the cast time is brutal.

    Also, increasing the duration of Kalla’s fervor would make upkeep less of a hassle. Currently without hitting anything, with the middle grandmaster trait that extends duration, you have a 2 sec window to recast f1 to maintain might stacks and kalla’s fervor, which is just too short. You already have a cast time, 10 sec recharge, and energy cost to use f1 and if you miss that 2 sec window you get nothing.

    I completely forgot that was a thing with the no port spots, yeah it's rather dumb. Not sure there's anything to be game breaking when it's just a summon. Maybe to avoid stupid slop casts?

    For the elite it's kinda hard to say, I would love to see a faster cast and less upkeep given you get some much healing, but that kitten thing is really strong too.

    At best, I'd probably lower it down to ¾, but that upkeep does keep how good it is in check, would remove -1 at best.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • I forgot to include how useless the bleed summon is. Maybe make it attack as well to benefit from elite procs, or preferably replace it with anything else.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    What? Mallyx in bw2 was a beast. Lterally no condi build, even necro specced for boon corruption stood any chance and thats before all the sustain buffs we got in recent years. Notice that pain absort had self blind which you could pulse every second to all enemies in ur radius. How spamable blind is weak vs power? Honestly speaking once you gathered conditions nobody could keep up with cleansing, even the legendary DD eles who were op back in the day had to back off. Pulsing 7-9 conditions at once to enemies was not rare at all.

    If we brought back bw2 Mallyx to current state of the game he would dominate in pvp. I dare to say that due to these spamable conditions like nearly perma weakness, blind and so on he was superior vs power builds as well. But the cost was clear - Mallyx being much harder to play. Rn its faceroll torment bot with no interesting mechanic

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    What? Mallyx in bw2 was a beast. Lterally no condi build, even necro specced for boon corruption stood any chance and thats before all the sustain buffs we got in recent years. Notice that pain absort had self blind which you could pulse every second to all enemies in ur radius. How spamable blind is weak vs power? Honestly speaking once you gathered conditions nobody could keep up with cleansing, even the legendary DD eles who were op back in the day had to back off. Pulsing 7-9 conditions at once to enemies was not rare at all.

    If we brought back bw2 Mallyx to current state of the game he would dominate in pvp. I dare to say that due to these spamable conditions like nearly perma weakness, blind and so on he was superior vs power builds as well. But the cost was clear - Mallyx being much harder to play. Rn its faceroll torment bot with no interesting mechanic

    I'll explain.
    Back then is back then, it's no longer the same today. Today if you re-introduced this playstyle with Mallyx, it would get annihilated by the avoidance and skills every professions have gained over the years. The concept is interesting but doesn't not work today, fact is people are still hating the CC that allows Mallyx to inflict some form of pressure and setup to it's benefits is beyond me since the past AoE was pointless until someone had the absolute necessary need to step into it and the cost was really high compared to now ways to inflict Torment.

    The old EtD was counter productive by being unblockable and unblindable because everything else you did would miss 75% of the time.
    The old old EtD is much worst because now you're asking yourself to rely on 3 seconds delay pulses to inflict conditions that are merely damaging and be solely based on what's on you with little resistance, which is copying so you'd die by condition pressure shortly after.

    The first Mallyx has 0 burst and damage application is too slow to be viable, the energy cost is disgustingly high to do anything even you adjusted it to today, second Mallyx had even more counter productive measures until Transfers were introduced it could stand a chance with kitting.

    Today we have predictable utility, sustain and actual damage that can significantly harm someone without being locked out by our self harm and energy against anything that's not condition while what's condition has enough evades to just laugh at the intervals needed to apply anything worth while.

    FYI, Weakness is still spammable, Blindness is doable with timing and in no way was it spammable back then, more like every 3 seconds which is nothing to work with when you'd lose it by your own doing with little resistance or the pulse of the AoE.

    Looking at it, it's cool but it's a big unrefined mess that I'm glad has changed so that we can easily counter pressure threats with less RNG and more planning.

    Nostalgia is getting to you.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    What? Mallyx in bw2 was a beast. Lterally no condi build, even necro specced for boon corruption stood any chance and thats before all the sustain buffs we got in recent years. Notice that pain absort had self blind which you could pulse every second to all enemies in ur radius. How spamable blind is weak vs power? Honestly speaking once you gathered conditions nobody could keep up with cleansing, even the legendary DD eles who were op back in the day had to back off. Pulsing 7-9 conditions at once to enemies was not rare at all.

    If we brought back bw2 Mallyx to current state of the game he would dominate in pvp. I dare to say that due to these spamable conditions like nearly perma weakness, blind and so on he was superior vs power builds as well. But the cost was clear - Mallyx being much harder to play. Rn its faceroll torment bot with no interesting mechanic

    I'll explain.
    Back then is back then, it's no longer the same today. Today if you re-introduced this playstyle with Mallyx, it would get annihilated by the avoidance and skills every professions have gained over the years. The concept is interesting but doesn't not work today, fact is people are still hating the CC that allows Mallyx to inflict some form of pressure and setup to it's benefits is beyond me since the past AoE was pointless until someone had the absolute necessary need to step into it and the cost was really high compared to now ways to inflict Torment.

    The old EtD was counter productive by being unblockable and unblindable because everything else you did would miss 75% of the time.
    The old old EtD is much worst because now you're asking yourself to rely on 3 seconds delay pulses to inflict conditions that are merely damaging and be solely based on what's on you with little resistance, which is copying so you'd die by condition pressure shortly after.

    The first Mallyx has 0 burst and damage application is too slow to be viable, the energy cost is disgustingly high to do anything even you adjusted it to today, second Mallyx had even more counter productive measures until Transfers were introduced it could stand a chance with kitting.

    Today we have predictable utility, sustain and actual damage that can significantly harm someone without being locked out by our self harm and energy against anything that's not condition while what's condition has enough evades to just laugh at the intervals needed to apply anything worth while.

    FYI, Weakness is still spammable, Blindness is doable with timing and in no way was it spammable back then, more like every 3 seconds which is nothing to work with when you'd lose it by your own doing with little resistance or the pulse of the AoE.

    Looking at it, it's cool but it's a big unrefined mess that I'm glad has changed so that we can easily counter pressure threats with less RNG and more planning.

    Nostalgia is getting to you.

    Energy cost were not that big and pulsing changed to 1 sec interval later on. The list of skills you see are from the small HoT beta before elite specs were added. If you search up for bw2 vids from 2015 you can see how powerful it was. If you could put bw2 Mallyx vs current you can bet bw2 one with perma resistance would always win. Also ur main source of damage should be weapon skills themself either way, utility is just.. utility

    Regardless the point still stands that heal skill and pain absord are from the old Mallyx desing when they actually made sense and its is no longer the case as Mallyx on his own cannot copy/transfer any conditions in his kit

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    What? Mallyx in bw2 was a beast. Lterally no condi build, even necro specced for boon corruption stood any chance and thats before all the sustain buffs we got in recent years. Notice that pain absort had self blind which you could pulse every second to all enemies in ur radius. How spamable blind is weak vs power? Honestly speaking once you gathered conditions nobody could keep up with cleansing, even the legendary DD eles who were op back in the day had to back off. Pulsing 7-9 conditions at once to enemies was not rare at all.

    If we brought back bw2 Mallyx to current state of the game he would dominate in pvp. I dare to say that due to these spamable conditions like nearly perma weakness, blind and so on he was superior vs power builds as well. But the cost was clear - Mallyx being much harder to play. Rn its faceroll torment bot with no interesting mechanic

    I'll explain.
    Back then is back then, it's no longer the same today. Today if you re-introduced this playstyle with Mallyx, it would get annihilated by the avoidance and skills every professions have gained over the years. The concept is interesting but doesn't not work today, fact is people are still hating the CC that allows Mallyx to inflict some form of pressure and setup to it's benefits is beyond me since the past AoE was pointless until someone had the absolute necessary need to step into it and the cost was really high compared to now ways to inflict Torment.

    The old EtD was counter productive by being unblockable and unblindable because everything else you did would miss 75% of the time.
    The old old EtD is much worst because now you're asking yourself to rely on 3 seconds delay pulses to inflict conditions that are merely damaging and be solely based on what's on you with little resistance, which is copying so you'd die by condition pressure shortly after.

    The first Mallyx has 0 burst and damage application is too slow to be viable, the energy cost is disgustingly high to do anything even you adjusted it to today, second Mallyx had even more counter productive measures until Transfers were introduced it could stand a chance with kitting.

    Today we have predictable utility, sustain and actual damage that can significantly harm someone without being locked out by our self harm and energy against anything that's not condition while what's condition has enough evades to just laugh at the intervals needed to apply anything worth while.

    FYI, Weakness is still spammable, Blindness is doable with timing and in no way was it spammable back then, more like every 3 seconds which is nothing to work with when you'd lose it by your own doing with little resistance or the pulse of the AoE.

    Looking at it, it's cool but it's a big unrefined mess that I'm glad has changed so that we can easily counter pressure threats with less RNG and more planning.

    Nostalgia is getting to you.

    Energy cost were not that big and pulsing changed to 1 sec interval later on. The list of skills you see are from the small HoT beta before elite specs were added. If you search up for bw2 vids from 2015 you can see how powerful it was. If you could put bw2 Mallyx vs current you can bet bw2 one with perma resistance would always win. Also ur main source of damage should be weapon skills themself either way, utility is just.. utility

    Regardless the point still stands that heal skill and pain absord are from the old Mallyx desing when they actually made sense and its is no longer the case as Mallyx on his own cannot copy/transfer any conditions in his kit

    Neither could the old one get rid of any conditions, the old one would lose because it would overwhelm itself while the other just counter pressure and apply more damage.

    There would be no such thing as perma resistance with two Mallyx fighting each other either, even with the buffs old Mallyx would lose because it has no control while the new can toss him around easily.

    To sustain with Resistance is half the story, Resistance is to allow manipulation of conditions.

    You could buff old Mallyx to ridiculous levels, it would still lose by the simple fact that the self harm will always get the best of it. The moment old steps out, it will already be hindered by his own conditions while the newer will make sure it stays that way as well as giving back what came from the old.

    We have a central pull for a reason, Axe 4 is unblockable for a reason, Sword 5 applied conditions for a reason. They're all gap closers that contributes to the short radius of transfers.

    Both PA and EM are fine as they are because they still contribute to reward players risking their lives to counter pressure with big stacks. Doesn't matter if they're still the same from before or after.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I don't know why you would want all of this back, compared to what we have now. Mallyx before the rework was a relic of that past that I still made it work to top 100 PvP which was unecessary hard and now I can actually breath and capitalize on people by make them easy target with CC's, actually Mallyx CC is one of the best team setup you can do out of stealth with one bursty AoE class like power Firebrand or Mesmer one shot, it's quite incredible.

    Also.. Being able to heal up to 10k is far from being weak.. It only needs a baseline Resistance rather than a separate ICD.

    What? Mallyx in bw2 was a beast. Lterally no condi build, even necro specced for boon corruption stood any chance and thats before all the sustain buffs we got in recent years. Notice that pain absort had self blind which you could pulse every second to all enemies in ur radius. How spamable blind is weak vs power? Honestly speaking once you gathered conditions nobody could keep up with cleansing, even the legendary DD eles who were op back in the day had to back off. Pulsing 7-9 conditions at once to enemies was not rare at all.

    If we brought back bw2 Mallyx to current state of the game he would dominate in pvp. I dare to say that due to these spamable conditions like nearly perma weakness, blind and so on he was superior vs power builds as well. But the cost was clear - Mallyx being much harder to play. Rn its faceroll torment bot with no interesting mechanic

    I'll explain.
    Back then is back then, it's no longer the same today. Today if you re-introduced this playstyle with Mallyx, it would get annihilated by the avoidance and skills every professions have gained over the years. The concept is interesting but doesn't not work today, fact is people are still hating the CC that allows Mallyx to inflict some form of pressure and setup to it's benefits is beyond me since the past AoE was pointless until someone had the absolute necessary need to step into it and the cost was really high compared to now ways to inflict Torment.

    The old EtD was counter productive by being unblockable and unblindable because everything else you did would miss 75% of the time.
    The old old EtD is much worst because now you're asking yourself to rely on 3 seconds delay pulses to inflict conditions that are merely damaging and be solely based on what's on you with little resistance, which is copying so you'd die by condition pressure shortly after.

    The first Mallyx has 0 burst and damage application is too slow to be viable, the energy cost is disgustingly high to do anything even you adjusted it to today, second Mallyx had even more counter productive measures until Transfers were introduced it could stand a chance with kitting.

    Today we have predictable utility, sustain and actual damage that can significantly harm someone without being locked out by our self harm and energy against anything that's not condition while what's condition has enough evades to just laugh at the intervals needed to apply anything worth while.

    FYI, Weakness is still spammable, Blindness is doable with timing and in no way was it spammable back then, more like every 3 seconds which is nothing to work with when you'd lose it by your own doing with little resistance or the pulse of the AoE.

    Looking at it, it's cool but it's a big unrefined mess that I'm glad has changed so that we can easily counter pressure threats with less RNG and more planning.

    Nostalgia is getting to you.

    Energy cost were not that big and pulsing changed to 1 sec interval later on. The list of skills you see are from the small HoT beta before elite specs were added. If you search up for bw2 vids from 2015 you can see how powerful it was. If you could put bw2 Mallyx vs current you can bet bw2 one with perma resistance would always win. Also ur main source of damage should be weapon skills themself either way, utility is just.. utility

    Regardless the point still stands that heal skill and pain absord are from the old Mallyx desing when they actually made sense and its is no longer the case as Mallyx on his own cannot copy/transfer any conditions in his kit

    I didn't play Rev during this period, but to be honest on paper it sounds really hard to balance, and I can see why they would change it. The point about cleansing invalidating its potential is totally worth merit; in group play, cleanses are over abundant, and there is definitely a lot of anti-synergy there. At its strongest, it sounds stupidly strong and unfun to fight, at its worst, it sounds ineffective and easily counterable by ripping/corrupting Resistance and hardpressuring.

    I would argue that it is overly simplistic to narrow Mallyx down to a simple torment bot. Yes, there is a certain level of truth to it--it is undeniable that it can dump out a ton of torment--but the kit has a lot of utility otherwise, and though the legend is most synergistic for condition builds, it is still very effective at what it can do: focused boonrip, group condition management, and high-impact crowd control. I see your point about how it is a bit awkward to not have condition transfer or copy built into the legend, but I just don't see there being room for it anymore without a complete rework, which I'd rather not happen because the legend is at a really good spot now. Both Pulsating Pestilence and True Nature have huge impact as is, although I would like to see an offhand weapon with an Arcane Thievery-esque effect to bring in condition manipulation beyond Mallyx.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    QQ Hammer still broken.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 I added some True Nature changes in case you'd be interested.

    Those Ventari changes are on the right path to make Ventari better though.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    QQ Hammer still broken.

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 I added some True Nature changes in case you'd be interested.

    Those Ventari changes are on the right path to make Ventari better though.

    An interesting idea and would surely be a huge buff for a whole myriad of specs. It would be sweet to get really close to the previous 33% boon duration from ye olde Facet of Nature. 15% damage reduction sounds really yummy too. My main concern with it is that it would make Facet of Nature - Ventari too strong. It is already a very potent heal (despite the PvP version being 1 upkeep too high), but amping it up 50% would be pretty cray. Granted, Elder's Respite is really solid and would be a sacrifice to run without it if using Glint, but in WvW, being able to provide ~1.5k/hps on 10 targets from this skill alone sounds really insane. Not against your proposal, just a bit concerned that it'd be too overtuned.

    My question to you (and anyone else reading): how do you feel about Elevated Compassion? Perhaps it is just that Draconic Echo is so strong and completely overshadows the trait, but the trait feels a bit too weak to justify using. I am not sure what to suggest changing about it. Simply raising the healing coefficient, perhaps? I'd like to see this trait actually used over Draconic Echo in WvW for healing Revenants (you can reach 10 targets easily via Shared Empowerment--very important synergy). Even though I feel the trait is undertuned, I do appreciate how it is balanced: only affecting allies as opposed to self and allies.