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Whispers in the dark reactions? [spoilers]


Daniel Handler.4816

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@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue, pretending to be Jormag, which is even more interesting).

Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue,
pretending to be Jormag
, which is even more interesting).

Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

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@"Kalavier.1097" said:The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@"Kalavier.1097" said:The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

Jormag spoke to Svanir through Drakkar, while "sleeping" in Gw1. Braham and guild watched Jormag sink underneath a Glacier when Primordus was sent back to sleeping/dormant mode, and was described as being unable to be reached or attacked.

Jormag mentions "The air is thick with change. I feel it, even as I dream beneath the ice." Indicating that the current status of the Elder dragon is, dormant/asleep, underneath the glacier still.

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@Kalavier.1097 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue,
pretending to be Jormag
, which is even more interesting).

Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue,
pretending to be Jormag
, which is even more interesting).

Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

I think it's that they are tapping into corrupted versions of the Essences that the spirits of the wild represent, and that we are turning it back into the normal form and using it against them. He does directly mention something about "The Norn never have truly tapped the potential of the essences they've had all along!"

I think they are all related to Jormag's touch, but in difference ways? It just seems to me that if the goal was to talk directly to Jormag (in some way), it'd be more fitting to take her to an ice cave, or inside the Sanctum at least? Aberrant seem to be partly dark and evil magic native to the area, partly Svanir necromancer rituals.

Which reminds me of two interesting things. I noticed there are a lot of little shrines around the area of Bjora marches, some featuring bear carvings (or bear cubs, unless that's meant to be another animal), but a lot of Ox ones too.

Also, I loved the interaction of the Vigil necromancer to the Svanir necromancer's ritual. It fits the trend and history of necromancers. When one goes truly evil, other necromancers get mad and seek to put them down.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:I guess the next map will be Drakkar Lake?

The next map is the rest of this one. The encompassing of Drakkar's lake seems like a logical conclusion (altough I haven't compared gw1/gw2 map to see where we are)

Drakkar will be the world boss, so I guess it should be the lake.

But we already have the walking Icebrood construct world boss in this map.I think it would make more sense to complete this map in Episode 2 and release Drakkar with a new map in Episode 3.

They already confirmed Drakkar is in Episode 2 since the PAX stream. They also confirmed that Episode 2 will expand the Episode 1 map since that time, and reaffirmed several times since. That_shaman also pulled out the actual size of Bjora Marches from the dat and posted it - the map extends west at roughly the same height, reaching the water.

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where
the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Don't think the voice is Jormag's though. Jormag's voice is different in the final cinematic, and Jormag even says "I should do you the honor of talking to you" - so the whisperer isn't Jormag. We don't know who it is, but it seems subservient to Jormag (and based on NPC dialogue,
pretending to be Jormag
, which is even more interesting).

Perhaps the voice we are hearding is the guy behind the new foes: horrors, boneskinner.

It does strike me as odd that "Jormag" would tell the traitor norn to take Jhavi into a cave in the Abherrant's forest where the boneskinners live, as opposed to say, Asgeir's legacy or a Svanir/icebrood stronghold.

I may be mistaken- I glossed past the mastery- but doesn't the NPC who explains it all say something to the effect of all three varieties being Jormag's minions?

He does mention that it's essences from "Jormag's minions" but he could be unreliable narrator at that point. However, the hidden achievement for using a boneskinner tonic from inventory does say the boneskinner serves Jormag. It and another achievement description (also hidden I think) are the only indications of the boneskinner serving Jormag though, and it doesn't really fit with the rest of Jormag's corruption - the aberrants we can see being created by a Sons of Svanir necromancer though, who's pulling fractions from souls out of victims to form the nightmare aberrants.

I've not seen any lore regarding the Fallen yet though.

All three armies attack during the meta, however, implying again that all three armies are in some manner serving Jormag.

@Kalavier.1097 said:Which reminds me of two interesting things. I noticed there are a lot of little shrines around the area of Bjora marches, some featuring bear carvings (or bear cubs, unless that's meant to be another animal), but a lot of Ox ones too.

Pretty sure those are Wolverine shrines. There's one in the Aberrant Forest, on top of a small cliff above where a no-nameplay/interaction male vigil norn is muttering over a pile of corpses with dagger in hand.

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:More note:

The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where
the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

... What? The Gods are not evil.

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Though short, I actually found the atmosphere and the story really interesting. I've always been a person who enjoys dark, creepy themes like this, though I wouldn't give this episode a full 10/10 (maybe a generous 6.5/10?) , but still, nice visuals and feels.

I really liked that Jormag was talking to us throughout the entire story and anytime you're on the open map. It just adds to the creepiness level. I don't know if it's the whispers that are getting to me, but I actually ended up thinking that Jormag was prettying convincing in the last instance. I feel like we should at least hear him out, but I feel like that's the first step to losing our bearings and joining his side. Though honestly, Jormag's offer was pretty clear, I almost wanted to believe him. Maybe a part of me already does (I imagine this is how the PC feels too).

I was wondering this, but I don't know if I believe that the voice talking to us is Jormag. Back in HoTs, as a sylvari, whenever Modremoth spoke, it was a clear 'Voice of Modremoth' in the text chat, but here it is labeled as 'unknown'. If we're so certain that voice is Jormag, then why hasn't that changed? I don't really know how deep this deception goes, but what if we're talking to something pretending to be Jormag? What about Raven? How did his magic get 'stolen' by Svanir? Is he already corrupted and part of this deception?

Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right? Wouldn't she be interested if Jormag (or whoever it is) is attempting to hijack her champion? She may not realize yet (too early, maybe), but judging by the Commander's reaction to the last instance offer (the delayed "...Right."), I can only imagine the whispering hijinks will only continue. Though, it might not be a good idea for another Elder Dragon to wage war against another...but then again, Jormag did offer an alliance of some kind?

While this episode remains a lot to be desired, I hope the next episode would at least be just as dark, foreboding and creepy as this episode (though maybe a wee bit longer).

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@ThatOddOne.4387 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:More note:

The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where
the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

... What? The Gods are not evil.

How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

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@"AzuraJae.9246" said:Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess,

I predicted that would happen, because Irene has a big Dragon ball Z effect, with all the power she has now, she will become a big elephant in the room if she comes into history.

But, she could appear if a big cataclismic event will occur and the "heroes" will need a god-level power to help.

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@AzuraJae.9246 said:I was wondering this, but I don't know if I believe that the voice talking to us is Jormag. Back in HoTs, as a sylvari, whenever Modremoth spoke, it was a clear 'Voice of Modremoth' in the text chat, but here it is labeled as 'unknown'.In WoW, you also have the whispers of Yogg-Saron while you are in the crazed dwarves' excavation in Howling Fjord.The chat there doesn't confirm that whisper to be from Yogg-Saron either.

Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right? Wouldn't she be interested if Jormag (or whoever it is) is attempting to hijack her champion?I don't think the commander is not Aurene's champion, as she neither a minion of Aurene, nor has she been 'corrupted' by Aurene.But Caithe has been 'corrupted' by her, so Caithe might be her champion.

While this episode remains a lot to be desired, I hope the next episode would at least be just as dark, foreboding and creepy as this episode (though maybe a wee bit longer).It wasn't creepy at all.Arenanet always stopped it, as soon as the mood was starting to set in some almost-creepy vibes.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:More note:

The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where
the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

... What? The Gods are not evil.

How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

You're going to be massively disappointed, because we know the Gods are not evil by their actions, and indeed their inaction as well. We haven't seen them through the fanatical view of humans, we literally talked to one in Path of Fire, and had opinions given from those who are not fanatical or even human. And there's evidence of their activities throughout GW1.

The Gods are the "Burning Legion" of Guild Wars, that's a new one, I'm honestly staggered as to how you could draw that conclusion given all we know. There are 0 similarities.

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@Fueki.4753 said:In WoW, you also have the whispers of Yogg-Saron while you are in the crazed dwarves' excavation in Howling Fjord.The chat there doesn't confirm that whisper to be from Yogg-Saron either.Oh, that's cool. I don't play WoW so I didn't know; maybe this is the case . In the context of GW2 though, I still think that it's pretty interesting that they chose to keep the 'unknown' as the owner of the voice instead of just changing it to Jormag. The characters seem pretty convinced that it's Jormag, but the chat text still hasn't changed. I saw some theories that the voice actually belongs to Drakkar, since he fits the description of being under the ice too

@Fueki.4753 said:I don't think the commander is not Aurene's champion, as she neither a minion of Aurene, nor has she been 'corrupted' by Aurene.But Caithe has been 'corrupted' by her, so Caithe might be her champion.Maybe I misinterpreted it, but the Commander is definitely referred to as 'Aurene's Champion' and the Masteries in LWS4 imply that 'the Crystal Champion' is the Commander (info found on the wiki). I had thought because of the unique circumstances of how Aurene was born, she doesn't have minions and that the people of Tyria were her 'minions', with the Commander in particular standing in as her Champion. The prologue even refers to the Commander as a representative of Aurene.

Even if this is not the case, the Commander is still pretty special to Aurene. She cared enough for the Commander that she flew from Auric Basin to Elona to try save them from Balthazar. In short story Requiem: Rytlock, he akins Aurene to being like the Commander's daughter (and I'm sure the sentiment is the same from Aurene's side). I think she should be a bit worried if her 'parent' was getting manipulated by another Elder Dragon.

And even if she doesn't care about the Commander anymore, since the Commander is still Aurene's representative in the world of Tyria, wouldn't she also be worried if the Commander is potentially making alliances and deals with another Elder Dragon (dialogue from the last instance of the episode)? I think she still has the same love for the people as Glint did before her, so even if the Commander isn't important, wouldn't she be worried if Jormag's going to ice a big portion of the people she swore to protect?

@Fueki.4753 said:It wasn't creepy at all.Arenanet always stopped it, as soon as the mood was starting to set in some almost-creepy vibes.I'm sorry, I should have clarified that this was my personal opinion and not a fact. I personally thought that the episode was quite creepy, but something being 'creepy' is entirely subjective and depends from person to person, so I can understand if you didn't find it creepy. I've always been jumpy and easily spooked by things (or in more simpler terms, I'm a scaredy-cat), so I thought it was creepy.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

Other races have interacted with the Six Gods. Overall the Six range from neutral to good. Only Dhuum - and after their falls from grace, Abaddon and Balthazar - were evil. Grenth is True Neutral, while Lyssa is Chaotic Neutral, Melandru is Neutral Good, Dwayna is Lawful Good, and Kormir is either Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral. Though depending on if you adhere to certain theories, Lyssa and Kormir could be just pretending to be the prior, and are Chaotic/Neutral Evil.

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@"AzuraJae.9246" said:Another lingering thought I had was if Aurene has tuned into this. I know she probably is cleaning up Krakk's mess, but the Commander (player) is to Aurene to what Drakkar is to Jormag right?

This is up in the air. Some interpretations is that the Commander is a dragon champion because of the shared magical bond, but lack the physical alterations of dragon minions. But others believe the term champion is being used in the traditional "representative of another being in combat or legal matters" sense.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:More note:

The depth this episode has given to the Norms "Gods", aka spirits, is remarkable, for a long time we reliquished on human gods as source of "powerful magic".

This episode showed in a more explicit way, that norm spirits can be powerful as human gods.

I really do not think the Spirits of the Wild are as powerful as Gods, for example, four of them fought Jormag and were still defeated, and more to the point, there was no cataclysm caused by the clash of powers as would have happened if the Gods fought the Dragons.

@"Slowpokeking.8720" said:I think the "terrible thing"Jormag mentioned was Primordus, it wanted to use us to eliminate the fire dragon because its power was Jormag's biggest threat.

It could also be bubbles, due to the ship sinking in the original trailer reveal. I think having bubbles be the one who is the big bad and maybe even the one who corrupted the other dragons would be cool~ Either that or its something in the mists coming for us. As seen in the map the svanir are able to make portals to the mists, but I thought we fixed that in the norn personal story if we chose to defend the spirits? We shut them out. Why are they in the mists? What are they doing? Asgeir and jormag came to an understanding? Jormag SPARED the norn because it values life? I feel like Jormag is shaping up to be an anti-hero, and whatever it's speaking about will come and inevitably we will turn to it for help because Aurene simply wont be enough.

is basically like the Saint-Seya plot, where
the apparent "villain" was just overwatching the real big threat coming: the invasion by other gods.

Evil Saga says he is the only one who can protect this world from the invasion of other gods such as Zeus, Hades and Poseidon and whoever stands in their way must die.

After some thought Im pretty sure we will be killing the human gods. They are evil. They have caused pretty much 90% of all the catastrophic events on tyria and we had always been acting on their/our believed to be best interests. Im pretty sure we are setting up for a mists invasion where its side with the elder dragons, or Die beneath the might of the foes we've yet to face. (Demons, the gods, mist walkers) As its stated when you do the mastery for essence manipulation, "It's been so long since the norn COULD channel the spirits." This indicates that the spirits have been suppressed and not by jormag. I believe when the gods left the first time in made it harder to have access to the mists... the second time was intended to close the way. (Until Kralk came in like a wrecking ball...)

... What? The Gods are not evil.

How would we know, We've only spent limited time with them. And always have we seen them through the fanatical view of the humans~ Im pretty sure they are the burning legion in this scenario and the humans are their orcs.

The sacking of Stormwind loses a lot of it's evil when when you're not gutting civilians in the street and instead destroying genocidal and slaving Charr settlements. Not to say the humans have never wronged a native Tyrian, but a lot of the locals were pretty abhorrent and the ones who weren't often wound up siding with humanity and the gods. Hell, we likely wouldn't have Aurene were it not for the Forgottens pact with them, which would of absolutely resulted in our death.

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@Kalavier.1097 said:

@Kalavier.1097 said:The interesting part to me is, Jormag is asleep. This is Jormag's "resting" mode, similar to in Gw1 speaking through Drakkar (who has been implied to been awake, just trapped under the ice, or... resting?).

That creepy smile Jormag has Fraenir do though... lol

Various interesting bits, like the implications of Jormag letting the Norn go, even letting Asgeir take a tooth to cause the Norn to follow him.

It it asleep? It seems conscious and this behavior went on before Mordremoth relinquished the mind domain.

Jormag spoke to Svanir through Drakkar, while "sleeping" in Gw1. Braham and guild watched Jormag sink underneath a Glacier when Primordus was sent back to sleeping/dormant mode, and was described as being unable to be reached or attacked.

Jormag mentions "The air is thick with change. I feel it, even as I dream beneath the ice." Indicating that the current status of the Elder dragon is, dormant/asleep, underneath the glacier still.

Are all EDs capable of, let's call it dream walking? Or is this something intrinsic to Mind and Persuasion? Like how is Jormag doing this while asleep?

There seems to be some indirect pathway between the spirit and the brain that Jormag can exploit to do mind control stuff. But I don't see how that would help them exert their will as they sleep.

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