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Elite Spec Idea: Commander


Lan Deathrider.5910

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This focuses on Pistol/Pistol, fields and finishers along with some group support.The Drawback (since Anet wants them now) is similar to Spellbreaker.

Commander

Minor adept Tactical Bursts: The Commander only has 2 bars of adrenaline, Bursts consume one bar of adrenaline, F2 uses the tactical burst of your offhand weapon, or two handed weapon.Grants access to Commands.Minor Proficiency: Pistol/Pistol

On the structure of the Tiers: The top option will be focused on finishersThe second option will be focused on FieldsThe third option will be focused on personal/group DPS and utility

Adept Tier

Top: Inspiring Finish: Blast Finishers you execute give effects in an area:

  • Dark: Dark Aura (3s)
  • Ethereal: Alacritiy (3s)
  • Fire: Quickness (3s)
  • Ice: Protection (3s)
  • Light: Light Aura (3s)
  • Lightning: Fury (3s)
  • Poison: Vigor (3s)
  • Smoke: Area Stealth (3s) this means it doubles the stealth granted to 6s
  • Water: Regeneration (3s)Mid: Area Denial: Your fields apply cripple, 1s duration, per pulse.Bottom: Sundering Attack: you deal 0.5% more damage per stack of Vulnerability on your target

Minor Master: Commander’s Zeal: Crippling a foe gives you 1 strike of adrenaline.

Master Tier

Top: Reversal of Fortune: Your Blast Finishers deal a strike that inflicts damage (1000/500 1.1 scaling) that is unblockable, cannot crit, and converts 2 boons on foes hit into conditions. EDIT: Split for Competitive ModesMid: Weakening Vapors: You Fields apply weakness (3s) and Chill (3s) every second,Bottom: Commander’s Call: Your Tactical Bursts apply Fury (5s), Might (5stacks 5s), and Superspeed (3s) to allies around you

Minor Grandmaster: Adrenaline Rush: Blast Finishers grant extra adrenaline per for struck (1 strike extra per foe struck)

GrandMaster Tier:

Top: Commander’s Presence: Your Blast Finishers grant Resistance and Retaliation (3s each)Mid: Painful Rounds: Your fields deal an extra 500 damage, (1.1 scaling) per pulse, cannot crit. Allies in your fields are healed for 500 (scaling 0.5) per pulse. Edit: Making this not crit.Bottom: Rapid Orders: If you hit with a Tactical Burst, recharge your non Tactical Bursts and grant quickness for 3s to your allies around you (ICD 10s). Edit: Forgot to add in an ICD and a quickness duration

Tactical Bursts:Some edits below for Hard CC's forced to deal no damage :frown:Axe: Axe Rake: Spin around striking nearby foes, each foe is crippled for 5s. Scaling of 1.5. Whirl Finisher.

Greatsword: Executioner’s Will: Plunge your greatsword into the ground knocking down nearby foes for 2s. Scaling of 1.0 / 0.01. Blast Finisher

Hammer: Pound Sand: Strike the ground causing a tremor that knocks down foes in the area. Strike the ground creating a dust cloud that blinds foes (5s) in the area. Scaling of 1.0. Blast Finisher. Reworked so that Hammer has a actual damage burst

Harpoon Gun: Lung Shot: Target is Stunned for 1s. Scaling of 1.0/0.01.

Longbow: Napalm Shot: Lob a fiery round that explodes dealing damage in an area and inflicting 3 stacks of burning for 5s each. Power scaling of 0.5. Blast Finisher.

Mace: Low Blow: Interrupt your foe dealing damage to your target and slowing them for 5s. Scaling 1.0.

Pistol: Burst: Dark Cartridge: Fire a Dark Cartridge that blinds foes in target area, deals damage (scaling of 1.2) and leaves a dark field that pulses damage (500 scaling 0.4) every second for 3s.

Pistol: Tactical Burst: Flash Cartridge: Fire a Flash Cartridge that damages and stuns foes in an area for 2s. (scaling of 1.5/0.01). Blast Finisher.

Shield: Shield Slam: Slam your shield into the ground knocking down foes in an area around you for 2s. 1.0/0.01 scaling. Blast Finisher.

Spear: Leviathan's Sweep: Strike foes around you and knock them back (range 300). Scaling 1.2,0.01. Whirl Finisher.

Sword: Griffon’s Sweep: Sweep your sword around you knocking down foes in range for 2s. Scaling 1.4/0.01. Whirl Finisher

Rifle: Knee Shot: Shoot your target in the knee immobilizing them for 4s. Scaling of 1.2.

Warhorn: Call to Glory: Heal Allies around you for 4000 health (scaling 0.5) and grant them retaliation 3s. Foes in the area are weakened for 4s and take damage ( 1000 with 0.4 scaling).

Pistol Weapon skills:

Mainhand

AA: Hollow Points: Attack your target with hollow point rounds dealing damage and bleed them, 1 stack for 5s). Power scaling 0.6. Cast time of 0.5s.Pistol 2: Explosive Round: Fire a round that explodes and damages foes in an area. Scaling of 1.4, 5 foes max, blast finisher, 4s recharge.Pistol 3: Fire Cartridge: Fire a round that leaves a field of fire in the targeted area. This field deals 1 stack of fire (3s) per pulse and damages targets within the field (0.3 scaling). Duration 5s. 10s recharge.

Offhand

Pistol 4: Noxious Cartridge: Fire a cartridge behind you as you dash forward. Foes you strike while dashing take damage. Leaves behind a poison field that lasts for 5s, inflicting 2 stacks of poison per pulse. Power scaling of 1.2. The dash has a 3/4s evade. Ground targeted. 12s recharge.Pistol 5: Smoke Cartridge: Fire a smoke round in targeted area that lasts for 5s. Foes in the area are blinded for 1s every pulse. 15s recharge.

Commands:

Heal: Rally to Me! You heal for 5000 health (scaling 0.5), healing you receive for the next 5s is 20% more effective. 0.5s cast. 25s recharge.

Utility 1: Focus Fire! Nearby Allies strike for 10% more damage for the next 2 attacks. 0.5s cast. 20s recharge.Utility 2: Bleed Them Out! Nearby Allies deal 2 stacks of bleeding for 2s on their next 4 attacks. 0.5s cast 20s recharge.Utility 3: Never Give Up! Nearby Allies next 2 attacks clear 2 conditions. Allies affected also receive 3s of protection and regeneration for 3s. 0.5s cast 20s recharge. Breaks Stuns for yourself and allies.Utility 4: Never Surrender! Nearby Allies are healed for 2000 health (scaling of 0.5), receive 2s of resistance, and 2 stacks of stability for 5s. Breaks Stuns for yourself and allies. 0.5s cast, 20s recharge.

Elite: Kill Them All! Grant nearby Allies 10s of quickness, 10 stacks of might for 10s, Fury for 10s, 4 stacks of stability for 5s and Alacrity for 10s. 1s cast, 90s recharge.

Just thoughts I put together. Numbers are just ballpark figures that are obviously up for constructive debate. As are the general effects on each trait and skill. Not trying to make anything blatantly OP, if something has rather high scaling it is probably a little used offhand that needs an incentive to take, but I am open to other ideas.

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I like the idea of offhand burstskills, especially for warhorn and shield, since they cant be used in mainhand and thus have never had bursts.

Some of my thoughts.

  1. You used on 4 finishers basically the same effect, aoe cc around you, 5 if we count the pistol burst.

  2. Why not put some fields onto bursts? Rigt now you are basically stuck to pistols, bow or utillities to generate a field yourself, so other weapons are kinda weak for the espec.

  3. Rifle burst is kinda awkward, since killshot is the defining skill of the build, but giving him an immo is weird, since you often need to somehow cc your foe to set up that long casting killshot, for it to connect. When killshot actually connects, your foe should be dead, or atleast close to be dead (hence the name KILLshot), what good is an immo on it, just to hit 2 more aa's for the finish? Thats kinda lame.

  4. Why would i ever go for area denial if weakening vapor is that much stronger.

  5. The commands read like shouts, and would synergize well with tactic vigorous shout. They are pretty weak, except for the elite and the # 3 and # 4

Edit: im mostly seeing this from a wvw perspective, because thats what i mostly play.Also, area denial makes only sense with leg specialist

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@"RedShark.9548" said:I like the idea of offhand burstskills, especially for warhorn and shield, since they cant be used in offhand and thus have never had bursts.

I figured you would like the in particular.

Some of my thoughts.

  1. You used on 4 finishers basically the same effect, aoe cc around you, 5 if we count the pistol burst.

I was going for that. I wanted a more tactical approach that would be meaningful small or large scale, and AoE CC felt like it fit the bill. Also did this late at night, so it was probably also my mind filling it in too many of them. Your welcome to suggest a few others. Except Griffon Sweep. That one stays.

  1. Why not put some fields onto bursts? Rigt now you are basically stuck to pistols, bow or utillities to generate a field yourself, so other weapons are kinda weak for the espec.

Well, most of the F2s are also blast finishers, which is the other aspect of the spec, and teamwork is a thing. An 'Earth' field isn't a thing otherwise I would have put it onto Hammer. But a smoke field created by a dust cloud would work as well. Do you have other ideas on possible fields?

  1. Rifle burst is kinda awkward, since killshot is the defining skill of the build, but giving him an immo is weird, since you often need to somehow cc your foe to set up that long casting killshot, for it to connect. When killshot actually connects, your foe should be dead, or atleast close to be dead (hence the name KILLshot), what good is an immo on it, just to hit 2 more aa's for the finish? Thats kinda lame.

I wanted something that could be a setup for Killshot. F2 to immob, F1 to finish. You did catch where both are available to use back to back right or was I not clear enough on it? Honest question.

  1. Why would i ever go for area denial if weakening vapor is that much stronger.

One is in Adept Tier and another in Master? Also adrenaline gain when you cripple a foe is built into the spec, so Area Denial would end up fueling large amounts of adrenaline over time. Outside of PvE, players will just move out of fields, but before they do you'll get a few procs of each trait for more adrenaline, weakness, and chill.

Area Denial also combos with Leg Specialist which would immobilize them in the field, which was my thought initially. Weakening Vapors is more support oriented focused while Area Denial is more offensive minded.

  1. The commands read like shouts, and would synergize well with tactic vigorous shout. They are pretty weak, except for the elite and the # 3 and # 4

Meh, More like the Ranger 'Commands' that used to be shouts, so no Vigorous Shout synergy. #1 and #2 are more offense and #3 and #4 are more support (which is why you like them in particular :wink:). I tried to not make #1 and #2 too powerful seeing how quickly Warhorn's Charge damage bonus got nerfed. But you are right in that it probably should be split between game modes, which I don't want to bother with for this post.

Also remember that #1 can be used WITH Charge. #2 is really meant to be a condi version of #1, its essentially 8 stacks of bleed over 2s for every ally affected. So with 5 (yourself included) people, that's 40 stacks over 2 seconds. Granted its their condi damage that dictates how painful it is, but with the right group (or Raids) that is a fair bit of extra group DPS.

Aside I mean for these to be to give buffs to allies along the lines of Charge or Ashes of the Just. I almost made #3 and #4 proc off of attacks as well, but decided that group stunbreaks were more useful. The Elite may have to long of a duration on the boons, but then boons can be corrupted so its a double edged sword.

Edit: im mostly seeing this from a wvw perspective, because thats what i mostly play.

I tried to focus on how this would work in a group, so WvW, Raids, and FotM are the main focus though it should work fine in PvP or open world.

Also, area denial makes only sense with leg specialist

And with adrenaline gain. Also its an Adept Tier trait, so the question becomes do you want to focus on controlling enemy movement (especially paired with Leg Specialist), Group buffs with Inspiring Finish, or personal DPS with Sundering Attack? Also keep in mind that someone may rather have the cripple but not Weakening Vapors. Weakening Vapors competes with group Boon support, and boon conversion on foes, both or which are also strong. I can see a condi spec wanting Area Denial to fuel LB F1 Burst, but wanting Reversal of Fortune to convert boons into more condi.

Thanks for commenting :smile:

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"RedShark.9548" said:I like the idea of offhand burstskills, especially for warhorn and shield, since they cant be used in offhand and thus have never had bursts.

I figured you would like the in particular.

Some of my thoughts.
  1. You used on 4 finishers basically the same effect, aoe cc around you, 5 if we count the pistol burst.

I was going for that. I wanted a more tactical approach that would be meaningful small or large scale, and AoE CC felt like it fit the bill. Also did this late at night, so it was probably also my mind filling it in too many of them. Your welcome to suggest a few others. Except Griffon Sweep. That one stays.
  1. Why not put some fields onto bursts? Rigt now you are basically stuck to pistols, bow or utillities to generate a field yourself, so other weapons are kinda weak for the espec.

Well, most of the F2s are also blast finishers, which is the other aspect of the spec, and teamwork is a thing. An 'Earth' field isn't a thing otherwise I would have put it onto Hammer. But a smoke field created by a dust cloud would work as well. Do you have other ideas on possible fields?
  1. Rifle burst is kinda awkward, since killshot is the defining skill of the build, but giving him an immo is weird, since you often need to somehow cc your foe to set up that long casting killshot, for it to connect. When killshot actually connects, your foe should be dead, or atleast close to be dead (hence the name KILLshot), what good is an immo on it, just to hit 2 more aa's for the finish? Thats kinda lame.

I wanted something that could be a setup for Killshot. F2 to immob, F1 to finish. You did catch where both are available to use back to back right or was I not clear enough on it? Honest question.
  1. Why would i ever go for area denial if weakening vapor is that much stronger.

One is in Adept Tier and another in Master? Also adrenaline gain when you cripple a foe is built into the spec, so Area Denial would end up fueling large amounts of adrenaline over time. Outside of PvE, players will just move out of fields, but before they do you'll get a few procs of each trait for more adrenaline, weakness, and chill.

Area Denial also combos with Leg Specialist which would immobilize them in the field, which was my thought initially. Weakening Vapors is more support oriented focused while Area Denial is more offensive minded.
  1. The commands read like shouts, and would synergize well with tactic vigorous shout. They are pretty weak, except for the elite and the # 3 and # 4

Meh, More like the Ranger 'Commands' that used to be shouts, so no Vigorous Shout synergy. #1 and #2 are more offense and #3 and #4 are more support (which is why you like them in particular :wink:). I tried to not make #1 and #2 too powerful seeing how quickly Warhorn's Charge damage bonus got nerfed. But you are right in that it probably should be split between game modes, which I don't want to bother with for this post.

Also remember that #1 can be used WITH Charge. #2 is really meant to be a condi version of #1, its essentially 8 stacks of bleed over 2s for every ally affected. So with 5 (yourself included) people, that's 40 stacks over 2 seconds. Granted its their condi damage that dictates how painful it is, but with the right group (or Raids) that is a fair bit of extra group DPS.

Aside
I mean for these to be to give buffs to allies along the lines of Charge or Ashes of the Just. I almost made #3 and #4 proc off of attacks as well, but decided that group stunbreaks were more useful. The Elite may have to long of a duration on the boons, but then boons can be corrupted so its a double edged sword.

Edit: im mostly seeing this from a wvw perspective, because thats what i mostly play.

I tried to focus on how this would work in a group, so WvW, Raids, and FotM are the main focus though it should work fine in PvP or open world.

Also, area denial makes only sense with leg specialist

And with adrenaline gain. Also its an Adept Tier trait, so the question becomes do you want to focus on controlling enemy movement (especially paired with Leg Specialist), Group buffs with Inspiring Finish, or personal DPS with Sundering Attack? Also keep in mind that someone may rather have the cripple but not Weakening Vapors. Weakening Vapors competes with group Boon support, and boon conversion on foes, both or which are also strong. I can see a condi spec wanting Area Denial to fuel LB F1 Burst, but wanting Reversal of Fortune to convert boons into more condi.

Thanks for commenting :smile:

Dunno why i understood it like that, but i thought that tactical bursts are for the offhand weapon, and if you use a 2handed weapon your normal burst is swapped to a tactical burst, like primalbursts.

Makes more sense your way.

I have a few suggestions for tactical burst changes. Not that i dont like AoE cc, but ppl would definately call you out on making them all feel the same.

Lets start with my favourites.

For shield:Shieldwall: you raise your shield infront of your body and create an impenetrable defensive line (i know actual shieldwalls require several ppl to put their shields together, but my norn is a frickin beast, he can hold a massive shield ;p)

For the effect you gain something like guards staff 5 line of warding that moves with you and always faces your direction.Or maybe make it work like that chrono skill, that i think comes from shield, just that it moves with you.

Horn:Horn already has 2 blastfinishers, id rather have it leave a field, that can be blasted with the other 2 spells.The field would maybe be the echoes of the horn still ringing in the air, or just the gust of wind created by the powerful lungs of the warrior. Ice field would work great with your other traits i guess, blasting protection. Whatever, no smoke tho, i dont want to join the solo stealth club anymore. Thats lame.

Hammer:Yours sounds just like another hammerstun. And its another downward movement, why not give us an upward movement? Something like guards hammer banish, maybe not knocking as far, since you want to stick to your target.

Mace:Is just another mace 3 interrupt.My norn is strong, he can throw a mace, i want to throw my mace at ppl who are poking at me from range because mace has 0 movementskills.Ofc it hits their head, slowing them in their casts down.

Greatsword:You flip your greatsword in hand, grabbing the blade with your plate gauntlet and using the handguard as hook to pull ppl towards you, setting them up to eat 100 blades :)

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@RedShark.9548 said:

Dunno why i understood it like that, but i thought that tactical bursts are for the offhand weapon, and if you use a 2handed weapon your normal burst is swapped to a tactical burst, like primalbursts.

Makes more sense your way.

I have a few suggestions for tactical burst changes. Not that i dont like AoE cc, but ppl would definately call you out on making them all feel the same.

And they should, like I said was running low on steam when I put it in. Some of them should be AoE CCs, but I am open to your, and other's, ideas.

Lets start with my favourites.

For shield:Shieldwall: you raise your shield infront of your body and create an impenetrable defensive line (i know actual shieldwalls require several ppl to put their shields together, but my norn is a frickin beast, he can hold a massive shield ;p)

For the effect you gain something like guards staff 5 line of warding that moves with you and always faces your direction.Or maybe make it work like that chrono skill, that i think comes from shield, just that it moves with you.Mmm. How about more like the DH F3 active skill? For 2s you block all attacks in front of you. Projectiles are reflected during this time.

Horn:Horn already has 2 blastfinishers, id rather have it leave a field, that can be blasted with the other 2 spells.The field would maybe be the echoes of the horn still ringing in the air, or just the gust of wind created by the powerful lungs of the warrior. Ice field would work great with your other traits i guess, blasting protection. Whatever, no smoke tho, i dont want to join the solo stealth club anymore. Thats lame.

Not sure this one. Maybe a water field instead? that way WH4 and WH5 can blast it for more healing?

Hammer:Yours sounds just like another hammerstun. And its another downward movement, why not give us an upward movement? Something like guards hammer banish, maybe not knocking as far, since you want to stick to your target.

Valid concern. How about a 0 distance launch?

Mace:Is just another mace 3 interrupt.

Not a bad thing to have more of, but the focus was putting slow on there.

My norn is strong, he can throw a mace, i want to throw my mace at ppl who are poking at me from range because mace has 0 movementskills.Ofc it hits their head, slowing them in their casts down.

Consider an Asura doing skull crack or skull grinder... Imagine un upward swing not a downward swing for this one..

Greatsword:You flip your greatsword in hand, grabbing the blade with your plate gauntlet and using the handguard as hook to pull ppl towards you, setting them up to eat 100 blades :)

I like the visual of the AoE knockdown followed up by Arcing Slice as a mass execution :tongue: but it also sets up 100B. You are right that the cross guards have been used historically to disarm or reposition opponents, but I don't see that working against multiple foes, which a GS F2 deserves to have.

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@"RiyazGuerra.9203" said:Lots of interesting ideas here. I will read and post thoughts. Was also working on an 'Enforcer' spec in a word doc in between breaks, will post it here later.

I started with that in mind myself, but as I put it into a word doc last night this came together. I'm contemplating changing the utilities to "Canisters" where you lob one out to create fields. That would fit better with the traits that I laid out. Feel free to incorporate the "Commands" I listed here in that case if they suite your Fancy. I'll leave them in for now to give you time to grab them for your own ideas.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Dunno why i understood it like that, but i thought that tactical bursts are for the offhand weapon, and if you use a 2handed weapon your normal burst is swapped to a tactical burst, like primalbursts.

Makes more sense your way.

I have a few suggestions for tactical burst changes. Not that i dont like AoE cc, but ppl would definately call you out on making them all feel the same.

And they should, like I said was running low on steam when I put it in. Some of them
should
be AoE CCs, but I am open to your, and other's, ideas.

Lets start with my favourites.

For shield:Shieldwall: you raise your shield infront of your body and create an impenetrable defensive line (i know actual shieldwalls require several ppl to put their shields together, but my norn is a frickin beast, he can hold a massive shield ;p)

For the effect you gain something like guards staff 5 line of warding that moves with you and always faces your direction.Or maybe make it work like that chrono skill, that i think comes from shield, just that it moves with you.Mmm. How about more like the DH F3 active skill? For 2s you block all attacks in front of you. Projectiles are reflected during this time.

Horn:Horn already has 2 blastfinishers, id rather have it leave a field, that can be blasted with the other 2 spells.The field would maybe be the echoes of the horn still ringing in the air, or just the gust of wind created by the powerful lungs of the warrior. Ice field would work great with your other traits i guess, blasting protection. Whatever, no smoke tho, i dont want to join the solo stealth club anymore. Thats lame.

Not sure this one. Maybe a water field instead? that way WH4 and WH5 can blast it for more healing?

Hammer:Yours sounds just like another hammerstun. And its another downward movement, why not give us an upward movement? Something like guards hammer banish, maybe not knocking as far, since you want to stick to your target.

Valid concern. How about a 0 distance launch?

Mace:Is just another mace 3 interrupt.

Not a bad thing to have more of, but the focus was putting slow on there.

My norn is strong, he can throw a mace, i want to throw my mace at ppl who are poking at me from range because mace has 0 movementskills.Ofc it hits their head, slowing them in their casts down.

Consider an Asura doing skull crack or skull grinder... Imagine un upward swing not a downward swing for this one..

Greatsword:You flip your greatsword in hand, grabbing the blade with your plate gauntlet and using the handguard as hook to pull ppl towards you, setting them up to eat 100 blades :)

I like the visual of the AoE knockdown followed up by Arcing Slice as a mass execution :tongue: but it also sets up 100B. You are right that the cross guards have been used historically to disarm or reposition opponents, but I don't see that working against multiple foes, which a GS F2 deserves to have.

Meh, im not a fan of using pretty much the same skill for another class, dh f3 would be boring. There is also already guards shield 5, that works like that. A on character moving cc wall would be kind of new, and running through a group of enemies, knocking them down would be fun.

Ive blasted waterfields so many times in my wvw days... I dont rly want them for myself lol

0 distance would be kinda moot, because it would just be another ordinary cc, the interesting thing about guards banish for example is, that you can knock downstated players away from his rezzing friend, maybe a 300 range knock would be fitting and should be far enough to interrupt rezz, banish is 750 range.(i do realize that i just contradict myself here with what i said about dh f3... I do feel like this skill would be more refreshing than another reflect in this game)Could also just break the enemies kneecaps, to inflict slow...

My point was, that mace is a very slow moving weapon, without any movement skills, so giving it a ranged attack that applies slow would reduce the dmg taken until you manage to walk up to that enemy,if you hit him.

Its gw2, were 1 daggerswing hits 2 ppl, so a warrior might aswell can pull like 3 ppl towards him, it would kinda fit the weapon and warrior doesnt have any pull so far, we have knockbacks, that push our enemies away from us??? But none that gets them closer to give them a lovetap.

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@RedShark.9548 said:Meh, im not a fan of using pretty much the same skill for another class, dh f3 would be boring. There is also already guards shield 5, that works like that. A on character moving cc wall would be kind of new, and running through a group of enemies, knocking them down would be fun.

I can see the QQ from here on a moving CC wall. Sounds fun though.

Ive blasted waterfields so many times in my wvw days... I dont rly want them for myself lol

More fields is more fields. We've all blasted every field forever at this point.

0 distance would be kinda moot, because it would just be another ordinary cc, the interesting thing about guards banish for example is, that you can knock downstated players away from his rezzing friend, maybe a 300 range knock would be fitting and should be far enough to interrupt rezz, banish is 750 range.

0 Distance to keep them close, but if you are wanting to knock a downed away from being rezzed I can see utility in that.

(i do realize that i just contradict myself here with what i said about dh f3... I do feel like this skill would be more refreshing than another reflect in this game)

No worries, somethings are bound to be similar to what other classes can do, particularly if we're trying to design something that is remotely feasible.

Could also just break the enemies kneecaps, to inflict slow...

My point was, that mace is a very slow moving weapon, without any movement skills, so giving it a ranged attack that applies slow would reduce the dmg taken until you manage to walk up to that enemy,if you hit him.

Nothing keeping it the proposed skill from lunging forward like Skull Grinder does. Or were you thinking more of another projectile like Tremor?

Its gw2, were 1 daggerswing hits 2 ppl, so a warrior might aswell can pull like 3 ppl towards him, it would kinda fit the weapon and warrior doesnt have any pull so far, we have knockbacks, that push our enemies away from us??? But none that gets them closer to give them a lovetap.

Well Spear has a pull, but that doesn't count right? Can we switch out Throw Bolas for Lasso? Give it a flip over skill that pulls them into range.Also, Magebane Tether is a pull.

So, a forward AoE, say 480 range, that pulls up to 5 foes to you? If this were to be a set up for 100b or Arcing Slice it would need a cripple, immob, stun, or knockdown. Brief duration in any of those cases. You thoughts?

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:Meh, im not a fan of using pretty much the same skill for another class, dh f3 would be boring. There is also already guards shield 5, that works like that. A on character moving cc wall would be kind of new, and running through a group of enemies, knocking them down would be fun.

I can see the QQ from here on a moving CC wall. Sounds fun though.

Ive blasted waterfields so many times in my wvw days... I dont rly want them for myself lol

More fields is more fields. We've all blasted every field forever at this point.

0 distance would be kinda moot, because it would just be another ordinary cc, the interesting thing about guards banish for example is, that you can knock downstated players away from his rezzing friend, maybe a 300 range knock would be fitting and should be far enough to interrupt rezz, banish is 750 range.

0 Distance to keep them close, but if you are wanting to knock a downed away from being rezzed I can see utility in that.

(i do realize that i just contradict myself here with what i said about dh f3... I do feel like this skill would be more refreshing than another reflect in this game)

No worries, somethings are bound to be similar to what other classes can do, particularly if we're trying to design something that is remotely feasible.

Could also just break the enemies kneecaps, to inflict slow...

My point was, that mace is a very slow moving weapon, without any movement skills, so giving it a ranged attack that applies slow would reduce the dmg taken until you manage to walk up to that enemy,if you hit him.

Nothing keeping it the proposed skill from lunging forward like Skull Grinder does. Or were you thinking more of another projectile like Tremor?

Its gw2, were 1 daggerswing hits 2 ppl, so a warrior might aswell can pull like 3 ppl towards him, it would kinda fit the weapon and warrior doesnt have any pull so far, we have knockbacks, that push our enemies away from us??? But none that gets them closer to give them a lovetap.

Well Spear has a pull, but that doesn't count right? Can we switch out Throw Bolas for Lasso? Give it a flip over skill that pulls them into range.Also, Magebane Tether is a pull.

So, a forward AoE, say 480 range, that pulls up to 5 foes to you? If this were to be a set up for 100b or Arcing Slice it would need a cripple, immob, stun, or knockdown. Brief duration in any of those cases. You thoughts?

Well, you wouldnt be pushing ppl with you like a bulldozer, altough id have my fun with it. But just make it so that each individual can only be hit once and the whole thing can affect 10ppl.

I know, but waterfields are weak nowadays, compared to other heals, hence why they are not used alot anymore to heal the zerg, like back in the pre hot days.

I understood your 0 distance launch to not have to run after them, but then it wouldnt be any special, just another stun, wooho.

Well not like tremor, like an axe throw, but with a heavy mace lol.

Lasso... But how would you throw a lasso, when you are already using a 2handed greatsword? And yea, most pulls have a short knockdown at the end.

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@RedShark.9548 said:Well, you wouldnt be pushing ppl with you like a bulldozer, altough id have my fun with it. But just make it so that each individual can only be hit once and the whole thing can affect 10ppl.Mmm... Interesting.

I know, but waterfields are weak nowadays, compared to other heals, hence why they are not used alot anymore to heal the zerg, like back in the pre hot days.I'm mulling it over. Going to edit several things either this evening or next.

I understood your 0 distance launch to not have to run after them, but then it wouldnt be any special, just another stun, wooho.

With the amount of stunbreaks that can be said for any hard CC. I'll consider what to do with it when I sit down to make edits.

Well not like tremor, like an axe throw, but with a heavy mace lol.

Ah. Why not like GS4 then so it can hit multiple people, potentially twice?

Lasso... But how would you throw a lasso, when you are already using a 2handed greatsword? And yea, most pulls have a short knockdown at the end.

The lasso was more a comment on Throw Bolas not on greatswords. I'll restate my suggestion based on your comment on GS F2:

A forward AoE, say 480 range, that pulls up to 5 foes to you? If this were to be a set up for 100b or Arcing Slice it would need a cripple, immob, stun, or knockdown. Brief duration in any of those cases. Your thoughts?

Lets say put a small cripple duration at the end?

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  • 4 months later...

Off hand bursts would be an interesting thing to see, giving a new meaning to pick some offhand weapons for their burst skills alone., Warhorn might see more light as a result, it still feels lack luster as a nothing weapon.

New attacks given to core burst skills would also be nice to see, however, all revolving around CC i do not agree with, shield hammer and mace i can see working with a CC burst skill.

As for combo fields, the warrior has been lack luster with them, with only a fire field to play with, Darkness fields could be applied or smoke fields from some weapons burst skills, (smoke may be questionable due to the overpowered nature of stealth).

Overall It would be nice to see an improvement on the warrior support side, providing aura's/boons/ability boosts to those around. Might alone does not count as support since everyone can already do that. The game currently for most content is too reliant on a guardian and mesmer for completing content. Complexity to the warrior class would be highly welcomed (so please take note anet... stop providing dumbed downed play for the warrior with 1 skill to play with).

I have made a take on the pistol x pistol spec as well, I did not go into traits however but i put down the concept of F1-F5 bursts and the weapons abilities.

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Mid and top traitline lack a bit of imagination. I mean top grant extra effect on blast finishers and mid grant extra effects on fields. And bottom is only saved from the same fate (with tactical burst) by it's first major. From my point of view, such traitline design isn't healthy.

Not sure 2 additional weapons was needed. Either the main hand or the off hand would be more than enough in my opinion.

As a command, I'd expect the heal skill to also affect the allies.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:Mid and top traitline lack a bit of imagination. I mean top grant extra effect on blast finishers and mid grant extra effects on fields. And bottom is only saved from the same fate (with tactical burst) by it's first major. From my point of view, such traitline design isn't healthy.

Not sure 2 additional weapons was needed. Either the main hand or the off hand would be more than enough in my opinion.

As a command, I'd expect the heal skill to also affect the allies.

I am in agreement with OP, the option of offhand and mainhand gives more styles of play than just 1.

Offhand torch is my most hated weapon as a result from the first E-spec.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:Mid and top traitline lack a bit of imagination. I mean top grant extra effect on blast finishers and mid grant extra effects on fields. And bottom is only saved from the same fate (with tactical burst) by it's first major. From my point of view, such traitline design isn't healthy.

Not sure 2 additional weapons was needed. Either the main hand or the off hand would be more than enough in my opinion.

As a command, I'd expect the heal skill to also affect the allies.

I'm going to update this soon. This was conjured pre big balance patch and I've had time the think more on it.

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Cool ideas so far.I like focus on fields and finishes ^_^ so far warriors bring a lot of finishers, but just one field that we can finish ourselves.And this is why i wonder a bit about the lack of fields in your idea (or i just over read it, also possible tbh.).You just have them in pistol skills, right?So why not change the F2 bursts that they bring a bit more fields? Especially when the weapon itself brings some finisher (i.e. hammer, sword or warhorn) it could be interesting to add a field to the F2 burst. Just as an idea.

A second thing is the commands as utility skills. Sure, makes sense for a Commander ^_^ but i miss a bit the difference from other types as shouts.Just another idea: Why not use the commands that way, that you mark an area on the ground (for example as guards symbol does) and in this area your allies gets the boosts you described? That way you could make them additional fields to finish :-)Or (no fields this time) you have to select a area where the allies gets the effects. That would make them at least a bit different from Shouts.

Oh, and the cartridge skills on the pistols would be so cool! I really want to see that!

Some of your skills look a bit overloaded with effects, for example with the Commanders Call trait or the utility skills 2, 3 and elite. I personally don't like that for warrior. I think Warrior is not (and should not be) one of the classes with overloaded skills. But on the other side, the Commander is obviously a Warrior/Engineer, so it could be fine with it :-)

Overall I would be interested to play this class. It brings a lot of potential to be one of the classes that doesn't work in hands of bad players and can be god like in the hands of good players, just because of the high combo potential and synergies. Hard to learn, hard to master.

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@Rettan.9603 said:Cool ideas so far.I like focus on fields and finishes ^_^ so far warriors bring a lot of finishers, but just one field that we can finish ourselves.And this is why i wonder a bit about the lack of fields in your idea (or i just over read it, also possible tbh.).You just have them in pistol skills, right?So why not change the F2 bursts that they bring a bit more fields? Especially when the weapon itself brings some finisher (i.e. hammer, sword or warhorn) it could be interesting to add a field to the F2 burst. Just as an idea.

Fields were put into the Pistol/Pistol skills and bursts, so the field line of traits are really for augmenting the pistols, but also for pushing for more teamwork. I can see a water field on Warhorn, or creating smoke fields with Hammer or Shield, but with the prevalence of blast finishers Warrior would end up out stealthing a thief potentially and too much stealth is a very bad and toxic thing, not to mention that it would be AoE stealth, and for 6s per blast.

A second thing is the commands as utility skills. Sure, makes sense for a Commander ^_^ but i miss a bit the difference from other types as shouts.The focus there is more of replicating unique effects like what we got on Warhorn. I know its more of a nuance and Commands and Shouts are generally very similar.

Just another idea: Why not use the commands that way, that you mark an area on the ground (for example as guards symbol does) and in this area your allies gets the boosts you described? That way you could make them additional fields to finish :-)Or (no fields this time) you have to select a area where the allies gets the effects. That would make them at least a bit different from Shouts.Not a bad idea, but I'd rather keep it local to the player.

Oh, and the cartridge skills on the pistols would be so cool! I really want to see that!I did toy with the idea of cartridges as utilities, so that they became kits, but decided that each pistol skills should do that instead. I'll be posting a alternative to this spec that uses a land spear, and will be putting a different utility type in for that which would be 'Paper Bombs' which would essentially be equivalent of dropping an overloaded turret and detonating it, but without the turret, so see what you think there.

Some of your skills look a bit overloaded with effects, for example with the Commanders Call trait or the utility skills 2, 3 and elite. I personally don't like that for warrior. I think Warrior is not (and should not be) one of the classes with overloaded skills. But on the other side, the Commander is obviously a Warrior/Engineer, so it could be fine with it :-)This was more to shore up the support side of warrior, and letting the utility skills be enough support individually that you can put one in, but have room for things like SiO, FGJ, Bulls Charge, and other high value core utilities. Each of the utilities is one way of supporting the group, power dps, condi dps, damage mitigation, and healing with the elite being overall support. In no way would you slot all of them (although for a raid I suppose you could do so).

Overall I would be interested to play this class. It brings a lot of potential to be one of the classes that doesn't work in hands of bad players and can be god like in the hands of good players, just because of the high combo potential and synergies. Hard to learn, hard to master.Warrior needs more of that, I'm glad you see the potential in it :smiley:

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I was thinking myself that the cartridge skills felt a bit Engineer-like...

What about embracing that and replacing the Command skills with (thrown) elixirs? That way they could each generate a field as well as buffing allies, so the player isn't necessarily locked into using specific weapons in order to set up combo fields. Could also open up the possibility of a rune type that enhances elixirs.

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@draxynnic.3719 said:I was thinking myself that the cartridge skills felt a bit Engineer-like...

What about embracing that and replacing the Command skills with (thrown) elixirs? That way they could each generate a field as well as buffing allies, so the player isn't necessarily locked into using specific weapons in order to set up combo fields. Could also open up the possibility of a rune type that enhances elixirs.

See the other thread that focused on spear, it's called Taichou. Honestly I feel that version is better. It would work with the pistol skills listed here as well.

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