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Let's Talk About PvP Balance


Cal Cohen.2358

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STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

In top plat , this is manipulated all day long, so that they que on double thiefs . for ex , and then they swap to counter the class, like full HOLO+REV/HOLO+NEC ,Fireshits + Nec/,etc...Whatever you QUE'D on is what you actually wanted to play.This would bring move FUN,SKILLS and DIVERSITY to the combos that guys are running , no mater if they are 2 , 3 or more of the same class. I've seen in the past with the old system when we had like 3,4 thiefs in the same team and won the game even if they joked about the team at the start.(nobody wanted to swap because that's what they loved), but nowadays is dude swap swap swap in one side of the team and in the other one nobody swaps.

I would rather play with whatever professions i get in my team , at any time compared to the current anti-swap that happens today.

Make the ladder less volatile, so that is a true testimony of the skills /21 PVP games at least, or 30 .That would mean actually having to work for the ladder, and not manipulate it all day, how they do it on NA.

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@Dea Beyond.5183 said:STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

In top plat , this is manipulated all day long, so that they que on double thiefs . for ex , and then they swap to counter the class, like full HOLO+REV/HOLO+NEC ,Fireshits + Nec/,etc...Whatever you QUE'D on is what you actually wanted to play.This would bring move FUN,SKILLS and DIVERSITY to the combos that guys are running , no mater if they are 2 , 3 or more of the same class. I've seen in the past with the old system when we had like 3,4 thiefs in the same team and won the game even if they joked about the team at the start.(nobody wanted to swap because that's what they loved), but nowadays is dude swap swap swap in one side of the team and in the other one nobody swaps.

I would rather play with whatever professions i get in my team , at any time compared to the current anti-swap that happens today.

Make the ladder less volatile, so that is a true testimony of the skills /21 PVP games at least, or 30 .That would mean actually having to work for the ladder, and not manipulate it all day, how they do it on NA.

Now those are some proper ideas, that I would love to see them .Hopefully dreams come true, or at least a part of them.

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@bluri.2653 said:

  • Heavy focus on skill splitting Engi, Ele, Revenant, Druid support skills until they're JUST good enough to where you can build around them in PvP and be part of a balanced metagame.
  • Nerf personal long-term sustain across the board until 1v1s when played optimally will end within 60 seconds of continuous brawling.

This, and another thing I wish they would do is reduce all mobility (long range leaps/movement skills) to actually make rotations matter more than it does now, even if you outnumber a certain class right now you can save a fight because of the crazy amount of mobility there is.

It might get fixed already by your idea to nerf sustain in the 1v1s that a +1 might matter more, I just wish mobility was brought down a notch, right now you can probably leap through a whole map with mobility skills which is just insane imo

Yep, definitely this. Good example would be well....just about everything.

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@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi Everyone,

I wanted to clarify something from today’s blog post while also kicking off a discussion on a topic that’s near and dear to most competitive players: balance.

It’s important to understand that as competitive handles competitive balance, we will continue to primarily use skill splits in order to minimize the impact on the rest of the game. It’s certainly true that not all issues can be addressed through splits, and we will continue to work with the skills team to make sure we are making the right changes for the entire game when splitting is not a viable option.

Mini Balance Roadmap

We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.

The next balance update is going to be smaller than usual. We want to make a handful of very targeted changes to address the biggest pain points in the current meta, but we also want to bank some time for bigger plans moving forward. For a future balance update, we are looking at major adjustments across the board. The goal is to re-establish what the overall power level for competitive modes, and then bring everything down to meet that. In true gw2 fashion, everything is on the table.

With that said, we’re not going to nerf just for the sake of nerfing. Every change should make sense, and every change should be working toward a bigger goal. This patch is still super early in development, so I don’t want to go into too much detail, but it’s definitely something we want to talk about more moving forward. As mentioned in the blog post, we want to keep the community involved early and often when it comes to balance.

So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: What outliers do you see in the current meta? Then think about the big picture: What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed? Think outside of the current meta and instead about what you want the meta to look like from a power-level perspective. Keep in mind that a majority of changes should be splits, but feel free to also call out issues that you feel cannot be addressed by splits.

This post is intentionally starting a broad discussion as a jumping off point into the new communication of the Systems team, but keep in mind that in the future our posts are generally going to be more targeted at specific issues as we won’t have as much time to handle giant discussions.

I wanted to keep this initial post fairly short, so please ask questions about anything that is unclear. Otherwise, let’s talk balance.

cmc

If so are you planning to overhaul scourge for PvE? I know this is not related to PVP but the changes of yours towards WVW hurt scourges a lot in PVE and SPVP where they are less of a problem.

Is there any plan to buff the big buffer classes in SPVP that spam? folks are complaining since the nerf of necro's in SPVP that buffer classes are running around with free reign.

Another question: How do you plan to deal with Reaper shroud? without quickness, reapers feel slow and cumbersome and at a massive disadvantage vs other classes, combined with the culling of might generation.

Thief related question:

How do you plan to deal with mobile classes? In my opinion, thieves is one of the classes that should stay extremely mobile, since they use it defensively and offensively. Other classes who combine invuln and mobility just combine too much sustain.

Do you plan to nerf S/D? how?

Do you plan on buffing any damage on thief abilities to compensate?

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@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

I wanted to clarify something from today’s blog post while also kicking off a discussion on a topic that’s near and dear to most competitive players: balance.

It’s important to understand that as competitive handles competitive balance, we will continue to primarily use skill splits in order to minimize the impact on the rest of the game. It’s certainly true that not all issues can be addressed through splits, and we will continue to work with the skills team to make sure we are making the right changes for the entire game when splitting is not a viable option.

Mini Balance Roadmap

We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.

The next balance update is going to be smaller than usual. We want to make a handful of very targeted changes to address the biggest pain points in the current meta, but we also want to bank some time for bigger plans moving forward. For a future balance update, we are looking at major adjustments across the board. The goal is to re-establish what the overall power level for competitive modes, and then bring everything down to meet that. In true gw2 fashion, everything is on the table.

With that said, we’re not going to nerf just for the sake of nerfing. Every change should make sense, and every change should be working toward a bigger goal. This patch is still super early in development, so I don’t want to go into too much detail, but it’s definitely something we want to talk about more moving forward. As mentioned in the blog post, we want to keep the community involved early and often when it comes to balance.

So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: What outliers do you see in the current meta? Then think about the big picture: What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed? Think outside of the current meta and instead about what you want the meta to look like from a power-level perspective. Keep in mind that a majority of changes should be splits, but feel free to also call out issues that you feel cannot be addressed by splits.

This post is intentionally starting a broad discussion as a jumping off point into the new communication of the Systems team, but keep in mind that in the future our posts are generally going to be more targeted at specific issues as we won’t have as much time to handle giant discussions.

I wanted to keep this initial post fairly short, so please ask questions about anything that is unclear. Otherwise, let’s talk balance.

cmc

Dear Cal Cohen,

Thank you for your message. It's a good intention.From a proper PvP-design point of view may suggest a strategic direction which will improve PvP dramatically:

1) Make Stone-Scissors-Paper model, each strong attack/spell MUST have a) countermeasure OR b) big trade-off.This is basics you know, but this is incredible important strategic understanding. Today it's very broken.If players can not react (to one-shot, or perma-stun) it's VERY disappointing and NOT FUN to play against.

Class can do very powerful and quick melee damage - make it vulnerable to CC and make single target damage only;Class can do very powerful range damage - make these skills slow and add visible telegraphs and very vulnerable to reflect;Class can do very powerful and dangerous AOE damage - make it without heal as a trade-off and create visible telegraphs and sound;Class can have very strong buffs and heal, make it vulnerable to disenchantment or debuffsetc.

2) Important equal effects from different classes - make it visually equal too, also make it more VISIBLE: Regeneration, Block, Stability, Might, etc

3). Remove other visual noise as much as possible. Each visual effect must be for a purpose. How much football has a visual effects? Each movement and important spell must be very visible then it's a fun to play and even fun to watch (as cybersport).

4) Remove passive effects as much as possible. It must be active game play.

5) One attack should not do more than 2 things! Current situation where 1 attack does 10 different things makes game unpredictable and too spamable.

6) Each strong attack or strong spell MUST be VERY VISIBLE (large telegraph, sound, etc) and must allow to react using countermeasure (if its available: evade, movement, block, interrupt, special skills, protection, etc).

7) Allow classes to interact more each other to have a proper team-play, for example make fields and blasts and support way more powerful but also way more more separated between classes. Should not be a class "Jack of all trades" class who can make fields, blast them, buff himself and do huge dps and self heal and have strong protection, blocks and CC. It will create real team play and interesting team compositions.

To play around this idea, without changing current PvP you may do a special game mode (copy-paste conquest) but with new abilities and visuals.and then see what players will like more.

Thank you,

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The "balance" suggestions I am seeing in this thread are borderline atrocious....maybe the devs should just make a new game pvp focused...or save some work and delete all 9 classes and replace them with a single class.....10k HP armed with a stick doing 500 dmg, a button to attack and another to defend...no heal.....are we still playing a damn MMO or not?

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@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

I totally agree.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get butthurt

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

We probably all have asked for nerfs to stuff. I once asked for nerfs to chronomancer in terms of support because it was 100% dominant the way firebrand is now in spvp, but it was worse because they were required for raids desired for fractals and dominant in spvp.

My point is we are all kinda biased in a way or another but he is right about the way we Q_Q for nerfs for classes we either don't want to learn to play against or it just stands a chance against us. People can be malicious even at the higher ranks asking for certain aspects of a class to be gutted for their benefit.

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The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

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@MakeItFit.7062 said:The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

Warriors can be tanky and do stupid amounts of dmg because of the absurd might generation allowed, on average a warrior will have 15 might at worst...perma 25 might not hard to achieve

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

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@MakeItFit.7062 said:The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

I don't agree with this statement at all. Fights are not nearly as long as they could possibly be. Look back at when only core was around. Fights then were much longer, and your build choices mattered more in every aspect of it. Roles were more highly defined, as damage wasn't running rampant everywhere back in the day. Everything that you did 100% mattered and determined the game's ebb and flow. Nowadays, what you do doesn't matter as much because you can always just rely on snowballing to pick up the pace instead of having to strategically think about what your next moves were going to be to come back from a losing situation. The fights now are so quick, because everything is so bursty.

Tanks are not bad for the game. Bursters are not bad for the game. Duelists are not bad for the game. What's bad for the game is when most builds either give you a superabundance of sustain, or a superabundance of damage, with no real tradeoffs.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@MakeItFit.7062 said:The current meta only allows certain traitlines for only a few classes to be relevant in ranked play. If you don't play a nearly impossible to kill tanky as heck class/traitline, you are probably not going to have a good time. Of course there have been and always will be meta and off meta classes, but in the current state of the meta all I play against are tanky guardians, warriors - oh so many warriors, cancer condi mesmer, unkillable eles and prot holos. If you aren't spec'd tank, you may as well not queue. Fights are long and boring and often end in stalemates. Want to play your favorite class but it was not listed above (or your spec wasn't)? That's too bad. The majority of people on my friends list who enjoy sPvP and were generally on the top 2 pages of my Friends/Guilds tab in the leaderboard have almost entirely chosen to sit this season out when I ask why they haven't been pvp'ing lately. So many people are sitting out, in fact, that silver players are being queue'd with the top 2 Legends duo queue'ing together. Gold 1's are fighting the top 10 people on the leaderboard consistently. This is ruining sPvP for everyone. New people get pubstomped and discover their class/spec is useless, and if they have the patience to keep playing are forced to make a new character. Veteran players in high plat and legend rank have few people to compete with and horrible games subsequently because of being paired with silver/gold players every single game. The unkillable spec meta is making the entire mode boring and stale, and many people who love pvp are opting out this season until they see changes.

I don't agree with this statement at all. Fights are not nearly as long as they could possibly be. Look back at when only core was around. Fights then were much longer, and your build choices mattered more in every aspect of it. Roles were more highly defined, as damage wasn't running rampant everywhere back in the day. Everything that you did 100% mattered and determined the game's ebb and flow. Nowadays, what you do doesn't matter as much because you can always just rely on snowballing to pick up the pace instead of having to strategically think about what your next moves were going to be to come back from a losing situation. The fights now are so quick, because everything is so bursty.

Tanks are not bad for the game. Bursters are not bad for the game. Duelists are not bad for the game. What's bad for the game is when most builds either give you a superabundance of sustain, or a superabundance of damage, with no real tradeoffs.

I kind of agree with this to be honest ^

Tanks are pretty irrelevant right now because damage is too high. 1 player can chew through a 2.3k or higher toughness build like a hot knife through butter which should not happen.

I think being able to defend against 1 player for an extended amount of time if you have no damage is fine how ever you should not be able to defend against 2 for a long period or 3 players hardly at all which is where the HoT meta was too unbalanced. Tempest could 1v5 on a point Reaper could 1v3 etc.

Tanks and bruisers are not bad for the game they give variety but need to be balanced carefully.

1 shot dps that can 1 shot anything regardless of how it builds, insta melting condition burst, perma boon dripping builds, and builds that lack counterplay are very unhealthy imo and we have more of these things today than we ever had before.

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@Dea Beyond.5183 said:STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

I agree with the statement but not the premise.If people want to play for the win, let them. They should not be allowed to do that by joining queue with a weak pvp class to ensure the other team gets one, then swapping off to steamroll them.That is a twopronged issue that can be fixed by making every class competitively viable, and not allowing people to swap once they join without being ejected from the match.

Leave how people -should- feel out of it. You'll never get everyone to feel a certain way about this game or its modes.Other than that, absolutely agree.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

People need to stop taking things to extremes.

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@apharma.3741 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

People need to stop taking things to extremes.

JsavCxA.jpg

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

People need to stop taking things to extremes.

JsavCxA.jpg

Is your day job a high school guidance counselor?

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@Dea Beyond.5183 said:STOP allowing PVP Character Swap after they have started the que and the match is in the 1 min up.WHAT you que on , thats what you should play, because you should love what you play, and not swap just because you do everything for the win.

In top plat , this is manipulated all day long, so that they que on double thiefs . for ex , and then they swap to counter the class, like full HOLO+REV/HOLO+NEC ,Fireshits + Nec/,etc...Whatever you QUE'D on is what you actually wanted to play.This would bring move FUN,SKILLS and DIVERSITY to the combos that guys are running , no mater if they are 2 , 3 or more of the same class. I've seen in the past with the old system when we had like 3,4 thiefs in the same team and won the game even if they joked about the team at the start.(nobody wanted to swap because that's what they loved), but nowadays is dude swap swap swap in one side of the team and in the other one nobody swaps.

I would rather play with whatever professions i get in my team , at any time compared to the current anti-swap that happens today.

Make the ladder less volatile, so that is a true testimony of the skills /21 PVP games at least, or 30 .That would mean actually having to work for the ladder, and not manipulate it all day, how they do it on NA.

These are some good ideas , that would make the game more exciting and less of play for win as they swap only to counter.

I would love to have teammates that have qued what they wanted and not have them swap again to something else after .You qued so , you stay so. You guys made the ladder to sync each and each profession , so WHERE IS THE IDEA at the END of DAY. Game syncs each profession on each side , so that you can swap it in the time limit to back to whatever u so desire after the game tried to make it syncable.Whats the point of trying to sync the game vs each profession when anybody can que on the noobest profession ever and when timeframe comes , there it goes our hereo and swaps to unbalance the balance.

So at the end of day , the fact that the game tries to sync is actually unsyncing us because you gives us the opportunity to swap back in the 1 min countdown, just because you want to bring joy and be happy that you are playing an OP unbalanced profession , as you can see on metabattle.Now we have template , we can play each profession on different builds in a matter of seconds.Everybody can rerol the traits if they so desire and not the character.

In gw1 , you had perfect pvp system. WHERE is THAT GONE??????????If YOU WIN WITH 4 RANDOMS YOU LEFT US GO ALL THE WAY TILL WE LOST , or at 25 VICTORIES.You had random games , and u went all the way to Team arenas to 25 victories,but u were only meant to meat team arenas after 5 wins, and as long as u won u were golden.SO much JOY HAD BEEN IN THOSE PVP GAMES, that you actually felt something, and with 4 random pugs u were syncing and talking to a greater purpose.BUT here you guys que us with the same , then you move 1 or 2 as enemies, u push som bronze and gold ones in the platinum games, so that you que system can see how much u can carry.

1 to 5 GAME WINS , SOLO ques.- no premades allowed, not even with 2.5 to 10 GAMES WINS- ques that are made of 2 peoples,10 game WINS upwards- TEamPLAY teams - let them sync with +5 guys.

If we win with some pugs , let us go all the way till we lose.Implement the no premade limit , so it cannnot be manipulated in either way shape on form for at least a 90% chance.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:I donno I kinda feel like anet needs to do something big to shake up and increase the pvp population cuz if not its gonna be to far gone. Population feels so low as it is on the pvp side. I'm guessing theres still newbies playing pve on the regular tho.

Little balance there and there is more than welcome..in the end I want to still play a MMO and if I want a Pvp focused game..I go play a MOBA as there dozen F2p moba pvp focused out there and to the people who do nothing but talk about skill skill skill..maybe they should go and join a chess Club in Real life.

This "remove this and that, nerf that one and the other there" BS is now utterly ridiculous.

Yes add a few secs there and there , reduce dmg here and there but this "remove everything that I don't like" crusade is pathetic to say the least...I mean people should just go and make their own game at this point or some single player RPG like skyrim.

I spent money and still doing that to play a MMO not a watered down version of a failed MOBA

Lol, because you've never called for "nerf x, delete that".

I dare you to go and fish all the nerf threads I made...asking to lower dmg or sustain of a single trait/skill hardly modify the way the class is played : I may have asked to nerf IH on mirage...not delete all clones/stealth/evasion gameplay..I may have asked to nerf rampage and reduce access to might ( done so for all classes)......not the whole warrior class...I may have asked to nerf holo sustain or dmg...not to completely delete holosmith elite.

I put myself in other people shoes
I may not do a great job at that..but at least I realize that everybody has rights here and everybody must have fun....not only the class I play

But don't take my word for granted..just read the pages here : " delete this, remove that, curb stomp that again"...why don't we just delete the whole game and close down the servers? There! Nobody dies and nobody get kitten

Didn't have to look too hard tbh.

@"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:Think the most obvious way they'll go about weaver (if they do) is increasing the cooldown of some of the evade skills by a few seconds. Maybe increasing the Twist of Fate count recharge by 5-10 seconds.

Doubt the damage is going to get touched. And it doesn't have to.

Just delete the class...it's basically worthless outside the fire weaver build that kills some silver hero.....

Is it supposed to be a joke? There is zero correlation between the two posts...I mean saying "you may as well delete the class at this point" is completely different from "delete the class", taking comments out of contest from another thread..it's more like "the last efforts of a strawman"

It's about the same faulty thinking behind the statements of "delete this class" whether used in the first or second context where you take a change and either do something extreme (delete the class pls!!1) or say it will do something extreme (you might as well delete the class :joy: ) when in reality it won't do either to the entire class.

People need to stop taking things to extremes.

JsavCxA.jpg

Is your day job a high school guidance counselor?

much better, I Am A Truth-Bearer

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