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ArenaNet should rename word "Raid" into something else


Xar.6279

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@Vinceman.4572 said:Even just a renaming would be flogging a dead horse.We're done guys, totally done.

Sad to admit but that's becoming a very true statement. Sometimes there's no LFG raid squads in either region and NA rarely has anything but raid sellers in LFG (on some rare days it gets a bit more active at NA primetime). EU still has somewhat active (though way less than before) LFG between afternoon and midnight EU time.

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Would really like to meet some of these "real raiders". There I was, thinking people who focus on low-manning bosses, setting records or on very good full-clear static times could be considered at least semi-hardcore raiders. But I guess they are just aren't real raiders for not caring about gear progression.

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Of course low-mans and speed-kills are fun. And you can really feel like you progress something on this kind of raids. I know it. Especially because u use different builds, comps, and strats there. But even this kind of raids gets boring after some time. MMORPG's should offer challenges on your own. Players shouldn't be forced to desperately looking for them...

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@LadyKitty.6120 said:

@"Vinceman.4572" said:Even just a renaming would be flogging a dead horse.We're done guys, totally done.

Sad to admit but that's becoming a very true statement. Sometimes there's no LFG raid squads in either region and NA rarely has anything but raid sellers in LFG (on some rare days it gets a bit more active at NA primetime). EU still has somewhat active (though way less than before) LFG between afternoon and midnight EU time.

I would attribute that to everyone simply sticking to static groups. Way less overhead, and player weaknesses are known ahead of time. The entire concept of Raids as we think of it is antithetical to Pugs.

Raids are very community driven, despite the amount of mechanical work that goes into them. If the community isn't willing to cooperate, either with the game or among themselves, the whole thing rapidly falls apart. The Raid community shutting out new players is whats causing the stagnation. New players unwilling to conform their culture is whats causing them to shut people out. Raid culture being judgemental and unwilling to foster a stronger community dynamic is why new players are unwilling to conform. When Raids were new, the raid community had an incentive to be welcoming and willing to invest in training up new players. Once static groups stabilized, all that incentive was lost, and its been nothing but entropy ever since.

Not all players are cut out for raid content.... but a lot more ARE then is actually participating, because the Raid community has no interest in helping to lower its barrier for entry. To quote House Stark's family motto.... "I got mine"

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@"Xar.6279" said:Current "raids " are fine for average PvE players which likes to do same things over and over again. For some reason it's not boring for them. Their main reason is to do anything together and socialize meantime with others. It can be "raids" but they will be fine with any PvE content. Like dungeons, fractals or even open world stuff.

But current "raids" in Guild Wars 2 have nothing to do with real raiding experience which is focused on progression. And very organized group content.That's why most of the real raiders quit gw2.You can't keep raiders interested when there's just 3 bosses per year and game is missing meaningful rewards.

IMO word "Raid" should be renamed to something else. Why?

  • Real raiders feels cheated by ArenaNet.

  • Average PvE players don't like this word. They don't like raids from other mmorpg's so they avoid this content in Guild Wars 2.

It would be healthier for both groups.

So you feel cheated because you invented your own expectations and Anet did what they wanted with the game that didn't meet them? Yeah, makes sense.

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@"Xar.6279" said:Current "raids " are fine for average PvE players which likes to do same things over and over again. For some reason it's not boring for them. Their main reason is to do anything together and socialize meantime with others. It can be "raids" but they will be fine with any PvE content. Like dungeons, fractals or even open world stuff.

But current "raids" in Guild Wars 2 have nothing to do with real raiding experience which is focused on progression. And very organized group content.That's why most of the real raiders quit gw2.You can't keep raiders interested when there's just 3 bosses per year and game is missing meaningful rewards.

IMO word "Raid" should be renamed to something else. Why?

  • Real raiders feels cheated by ArenaNet.

  • Average PvE players don't like this word. They don't like raids from other mmorpg's so they avoid this content in Guild Wars 2.

It would be healthier for both groups.

Raids shouldn't be called raids, because... there's not enough of them and people that want to raid 24/7 got bored? I don't see the logic in what you just said.

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@Xar.6279 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Lord Rhett.9360" said:In what game are raids focused on "progression"?

some people think that a perpetual, meaningless geargrind is 'progression'

Probably the same people OP called 'real raiders' or that gw2 raids are not raids.

What? By progress I mean progress. So killing some bosses for the first time and figuring out their mechanics on your own. Without using guides because there's none of them on internet yet. This is real raiding experience and its totally different than killing bosses with guides.

This kind of raiding actually don't exist in gw2. So it's not raids anymore. Its some kind of 10 man dungeon, but certainly not "raid".

.

@Xar.6279 said:

@Xar.6279 said:

What? By progress I mean progress. So killing some bosses for the first time and figuring out their mechanics on your own. Without using guides because there's none of them on internet yet. This is real raiding experience and its totally different than killing bosses with guides.

This kind of raiding actually don't exist in gw2. So it's not raids anymore. Its some kind of 10 man dungeon, but certainly not "raid".

This is 100% achievable in gw2. When wing 7 came out, my raid team agreed on not watching any streams, or checking kill videos and try to beat the new wing that way. It took us 3 days, and it was fun.

3 days of progression and 300+ days of waiting :pensive:

Ah, so you're literally trying to push your opinion that any raid that was released more than 3 days earlier somehow stops being a raid and needs to be renamed as a different type of content because people can look up a guide for it....and apparently a freshly released dungeon should be called "Raid" for first 3 days from its release, because that's the only way you classify that type of content. That's actually hilarious.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Xar.6279 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Lord Rhett.9360" said:In what game are raids focused on "progression"?

some people think that a perpetual, meaningless geargrind is 'progression'

Probably the same people OP called 'real raiders' or that gw2 raids are not raids.

What? By progress I mean progress. So killing some bosses for the first time and figuring out their mechanics on your own. Without using guides because there's none of them on internet yet. This is real raiding experience and its totally different than killing bosses with guides.

This kind of raiding actually don't exist in gw2. So it's not raids anymore. Its some kind of 10 man dungeon, but certainly not "raid".

.

@Xar.6279 said:

@Xar.6279 said:

What? By progress I mean progress. So killing some bosses for the first time and figuring out their mechanics on your own. Without using guides because there's none of them on internet yet. This is real raiding experience and its totally different than killing bosses with guides.

This kind of raiding actually don't exist in gw2. So it's not raids anymore. Its some kind of 10 man dungeon, but certainly not "raid".

This is 100% achievable in gw2. When wing 7 came out, my raid team agreed on not watching any streams, or checking kill videos and try to beat the new wing that way. It took us 3 days, and it was fun.

3 days of progression and 300+ days of waiting :pensive:

Ah, so you're literally trying to push your opinion that any raid that was released more than 3 days earlier somehow stops being a raid and needs to be renamed as a different type of content because people can look up a guide for it....and apparently a freshly released dungeon should be called "Raid" for first 3 days from its release, because that's the only way you classify that type of content. That's actually hilarious.

Man all the living world releases are raids then, damn we get multiple raids a year with this definition.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@"Xar.6279" said:Current "raids " are fine for average PvE players which likes to do same things over and over again. For some reason it's not boring for them. Their main reason is to do anything together and socialize meantime with others. It can be "raids" but they will be fine with any PvE content. Like dungeons, fractals or even open world stuff.

But current "raids" in Guild Wars 2 have nothing to do with real raiding experience which is focused on progression. And very organized group content.That's why most of the real raiders quit gw2.You can't keep raiders interested when there's just 3 bosses per year and game is missing meaningful rewards.

IMO word "Raid" should be renamed to something else. Why?

  • Real raiders feels cheated by ArenaNet.

  • Average PvE players don't like this word. They don't like raids from other mmorpg's so they avoid this content in Guild Wars 2.

It would be healthier for both groups.

Holy sht, did I just read some common sense here? This is exactly what I said what was going to happen pre-raids and no one wanted to listen (they still don’t). Arenanet begon GW2 by creating a game where literally EVERYTHING could be achieved by pressing 11111111 and that’s it. They created a 95% utter noob playerbase. Then they implement raids, and what happens? For 80% of the people raids are too hard (even HoT open world was too hard for some) so they left, and the hardcore players found it waaaay too easy, so they left too. Well done Anet.

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Raid is a word that can be used to describe lots of different things. Even the faceroll strike missions could be called raids if anet wanted.

"In video games, a raid is a type of mission in massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) where a number of people attempt to defeat either: (a) another number of people at player-vs-player (PVP), (b) a series of computer-controlled enemies (non-player characters; NPCs) in a player-vs-environment (PVE) battlefield, or © a very powerful boss (superboss). This type of objective usually occurs within an instance dungeon, a separate server instance from the other players in the game."source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_(video_gaming)

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