[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[lare.5129]

@Doto.6357 said:fighting a boss.fighting a STORY boss. Please don't forget add this. Aslo still don't understand any tie between rotation and story.

[Doto.6357]

@lare.5129 said:

@Doto.6357 said:fighting a boss.fighting a STORY boss. Please don't forget add this. Aslo still don't understand any tie between rotation and story.

Also still don’t understand why the devs should change the whole game just because you are personally inconvenienced by something.

None of the story bosses are very difficult at all, they’re all very mellow compared to what a real gw2 boss looks like. Gw2 shouldn’t be turned into a glorified audiobook just cause you want to afk all the story bosses rather than like... play the game.

[Seera.5916]

Personally, I prefer to die a few times to the major story bosses. Because you only get better at something when you're challenged. I don't know about you, but I overall want to get better a game that I'm playing.

Case in point:

When LS2 had just come out I played it as it came out. Until I got to Hidden Arcana. I rage quit at the second boss. It took me forever and a day to get him to 25% health then I made a stupid mistake and died and his health reset. I may have still been in full cleric exotics the first time. Or just fresh having moved to Zerker exotics. And don't get me started on having a rotation (still don't have one).

Need some geodes and crests for my legendary so I'm playing the LS2 chapters as I'd rather play those multiple times than farm Dry Top and Silverwastes. I have a very low farming tolerance. I had restarted the story on my main and I got to Hidden Arcana yesterday or the day before. They've either nerfed the 2nd boss or I'm much better. I do have full ascended gear now with exception of maybe the accessories/backpiece/etc and I have Meteorlogicus. I hope it's the latter as that means I've gotten better overall at the game. Then spent 30 minutes a the final boss because it took me that long to figure out the mechanic.

That feeling when I killed the 2nd boss was amazing. It made me feel good that I could finally beat a boss that I had trouble with before.

This is also an MMO. If you can't beat a boss in a story alone yet, get a friend or two to join. Post an LFG. Ask in Lion's Arch for help or one of the racial cities. Ask your guild. There's nothing wrong about needing help with a story mission and asking for it. Then in a few months go back and try the mission out again solo, you might find you've improved and are able to defeat it by yourself.

I would actually hope that as the story progresses each boss gets a little bit more difficult to defeat. Of course with the horizontal progression this will mean mechanics will come into play. Which means that unless you watch a guide, you'll likely die a few times while you figure out the mechanic and how to beat it. And that's just fine.

Edit to add:

I was also fine with the original difficulty of Eater of Souls. And I could not break his bar quickly. Not skilled enough for that. But I eventually killed him. I may have had to find a place to park my character or I delayed resurrecting and do some reading online to figure out how to kill him. I adjusted my build, I changed up some gear (I had my original Clerics gear in my inventory still so I could swap gear via the hero panel). I'm actually sad that they nerfed him because now I won't really know if I've gotten better since my original try.

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

$120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

[battledrone.8315]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

$120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

wow...you prolly shouldnt post with those math skills. and you shouldnt lie either. wiki says 3 games...2012,2014 and 2017if they HAD made one every year, it would be 120 mio for ONE YEAR..not 10 days.

[Fenella.2634]

@Seera.5916 said:Personally, I prefer to die a few times to the major story bosses. Because you only get better at something when you're challenged. I don't know about you, but I overall want to get better a game that I'm playing.I agree. Also, the story bosses are supposed to be major threads in the story, it's a bit weird if the PC can just autoattack them to death while half asleep.When I did that fight against Balthazar we're supposed to lose on my soulbeast, I did not have any trouble. No downstate, nothing at all. His lines didn't make much sense in that context, as my character was neither struggling nor screaming. ^^;; Of course I knew how that story had to end, but still, having to lose in that scene just felt weird.

I think the current level of story boss difficulty is just right. I might have to think about builds and mechanics here and there, but I rarely come across anything that really seems impossible to beat.

As a reference, in sPvP I am somewhere around high silver to low gold, so I guess I have about average skill, maybe a bit lower than average.

[maddoctor.2738]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Clearly going off rails here comparing other franchises with Guild Wars 2. As much as Candy Crush is completely different to Dark Souls, Guild Wars 2 is completely different to both of those. The original post was trying to tell us those that those that need more difficult content (in Guild Wars 2) is 5% of the total population and based it on the difference in population between Candy Crush saga and Dark Souls. The amount of players playing those two games is irrelevant to the players playing Guild Wars 2

Edit: To satisfy @battledrone.8315According to the official Activision-Blizzard quarterly report, King, the developer of Candy Crash, made $526 million in Q1 2019. Sekiro (Dark Souls successor) sold 2 million copies in just 10 days, and was released at the last 10 days of the quarter (March 22, Q1 ended March 31). That's (at $60 a copy) $120 million (in 10 days), excluding the extra price of pre-orders and collector edition copies. This means Candy Crash in a Quarter made approximately x4.4 more money than Sekiro did in 10 days. Meaning, financially, difficulty is a very good thing.

does darksouls make a new game every year? does it cost the same money and time to make it , as candy crush?even a disaster like anthem made over 3 mio sales

With the exception of 2017 they do release a game every year. As for money, From Software, the developer of the Souls series, has 283 employees. King, the developer of Candy Crash type games has 4038 employees. Judging by the number of employees, King games are vastly more expensive than From Software games. It's not even funny to compare the cost of them, completely different level.

$120 million from 283 employees (in 10 days) versus $526 million from 4038 employees (in 3 months)Q2 quarterly results for Activision will be released later today. I'm curious to see how Sekiro did in an entire quarter and how it will compare to King.

For reference, NCSoft has 1769 employees plus 293 from Arenanet for a total of 2062. The company made 410786 billion korean won which is $497 million. NCSoft is more profitable than King on a per-employee basis.

There is a belief that these casual money grabbing mobile games are cheap to make and require only a few employees. Reality is, they aren't.

wow...you prolly shouldnt post with those math skills. and you shouldnt lie either. wiki says 3 games...2012,2014 and 2017

Sigh.Which wiki did you check?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FromSoftware

I didn't know what kind of game Deracine was, so I guess 2017 and 2018 didn't have a "souls-like" game. Dark Souls 2 (2014), Bloodborne (2015), the expansion to Dark Souls 2 (2015), Dark Souls 3 (2016), Sekiro (2019)

if they HAD made one every year, it would be 120 mio for ONE YEAR..not 10 days.

Game sales aren't linear, they tend to sell more on their release quarters than the rest of the year. Still, they make great profit.

Now imagine if 4098 developers were working on Dark Souls instead of Candy Crash...

[Dante.1508]

This is just a joke and i'm thinking its time to uninstall.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@mauried.5608 said:Easy content is still fun.For you.For many of us it is not, to the point that it is causing us to become disengaged from this game/franchise.

1000%

[maddoctor.2738]

The Icebrood Saga (so far) went 180 in terms of encounter difficulty and we are back to around personal story levels. It will be interesting to see the reactions of new players, those that start playing the game now with the Icebrood Saga, when they go back and play the previous content, the expansions and the season episodes, that have considerably harder story encounters. With the exception of the last boss in Whisper in the Dark, which has a few mechanics worth talking about, the Saga so far has been a walk in the park.

[Astralporing.1957]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Now imagine if 4098 developers were working on Dark Souls instead of Candy Crash...The game would likely earn about as much as it did. But it would cost a lot more.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@maddoctor.2738 said:The Icebrood Saga (so far) went 180 in terms of encounter difficulty and we are back to around personal story levels. It will be interesting to see the reactions of new players, those that start playing the game now with the Icebrood Saga, when they go back and play the previous content, the expansions and the season episodes, that have considerably harder story encounters. With the exception of the last boss in Whisper in the Dark, which has a few mechanics worth talking about, the Saga so far has been a walk in the park.

I don't understand this decision, I thought with PoF They learned people really didn't want it all casual, despite the whining. I wonder what the metrics are on how many people visit the PoF+LS4 maps compared to the HoT+LS3 maps..

[EMPI.4013]

Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

I don't understand this decision, I thought with PoF They learned people really didn't want it all casual, despite the whining.The popularity of Istan has shown that PoF problems had nothing to do with difficulty of the content, but a lot to do with how unrewarding the PoF metas were.

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:What you will never be able to do is to have the same group of players change the way they're playing and the things they consider fun.

But the game has been like this for at least 5 years. In a sense now a new group of players (where were they all this time?) is asking to make changes to the game to make it how -they- consider it fun.The posts like that appear every single time there's a new more-challeging boss in the storyline. And it's because there

is

a difficulty jump between old content and the new one. The game changed to make it more fun for a certain group of players, but that meant that the very same changes made it less fun for another group of players. And that group keeps asking to have the game changed to how it was originally. Well, the ones that still play, because some probably gave up long ago.

Disregarding what the actual players of this game find fun.The players complaining about the difficulty level are as much actual GW2 players as you are.

So it's the other way around, the game has been in one way, with a certain group of players playing it, and long after the fact, there is a desire to change the game to fit some new kind of player.With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history, and

has

been known to change to accomodate small number of vocal players (often with not so good results, as with HoT or recent fractals). The players that keep asking to change it are asking for the game to be changed

back

to how it was at one point in the history. Not to fit some new kind of player, but to fit at least some of

original

kind of players.

I don't remember even a single game that succeeded by telling their players they should go and play something else instead.

Yes exactly, why would they tell their current players to leave this game because they are gonna turn it into an idle simulator by removing all kinds of challenge and interest from the story? To satisfy some complainers on a forum?You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players, and as if your way of having fun is the only one liked by all players of this community. You don't, and it isn't.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:The posts like that appear every single time there's a new more-challeging boss in the storyline. And it's because there is a difficulty jump between old content and the new one.

Judging by what we got so far, it appears that we will only have drops in difficulty between the old content and the Saga content.

With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history

Obviously. But the difficulty of the game has been going up constantly ever since the first release for the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire both increased the difficulty by a whole lot, which begs the question when players find the next content "difficult" what have they been doing up to this time.

You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players

I represent those that are playing the current game, and have been playing it for years, experiencing the increase in challenge over them. We'll see how the game will turn out now that it has been over-simplified with the Icebrood Saga so much. Will the number of players that used to complain and now come back outweigh those that were left with the game but will leave due to the challenge drop? We'll certainly know by the end of the Icebrood Saga, or even during it, if there are changes to this new policy of making the game so yawning easy.

[Dante.1508]

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

If i'd known that i would never have bought it.. I know for a fact if this boss stupidity doesn't change i'm done buying living story.. No more its gotten to the point i just cannot take it anymore..

This was the exact same reason i quit GW2 when hot released.. Yet even after 4 years the devs haven't learnt.. only a small quantity of customers like insanely hard content.. So thats why they have raids so those same customers can play together in RAIDS, not story mode dungeons 99% of customers have to solo.

[LucianDK.8615]

Think people need to try proper rotations for their class and learning to dodge visual cues. Bjora marches and related story was completely trivial in difficulty.

[Gop.8713]

The story is supposed to be easy. And it is . . .

[whoeverxwins.1279]

None of the story content is that difficult. I am definitely casual, only do PVE/ story stuff and occasional dungeons. I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands. Yet I can solo all but the final LW2 boss, and that's because of the shades and annoying flame mechanic. Even that one I soloed last time on my ranger. If something really is that difficult, ask for help. It's an MMO. I regularly do Hearts and Minds to help people out when I see it on LFG. Even I don't like the dumbing down that is happening.

We have the option to change skills anytime. When something isn't working, I step back, look at what skills I can change, and fix it.

[Linken.6345]

@Dante.1508 said:

@ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:Well they did turn this latest episode into the Ashes of Ariandel from Dark Souls 3. So you would expect it to be rather difficult.

If i'd known that i would never have bought it.. I know for a fact if this boss stupidity doesn't change i'm done buying living story.. No more its gotten to the point i just cannot take it anymore..

This was the exact same reason i quit GW2 when hot released.. Yet even after 4 years the devs haven't learnt.. only a small quantity of customers like insanely hard content.. So thats why they have raids so those same customers can play together in RAIDS, not story mode dungeons 99% of customers have to solo.

None of the story bosses are anywere close to insanely hard and if you find it so then bring 4 friends and win.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:

With the caveat that the game wasn't constant throughout the whole history

Obviously. But the difficulty of the game has been going up constantly ever since the first release for the game. Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire both increased the difficulty by a whole lot, which begs the question when players find the next content "difficult" what have they been doing up to this time.Complaining every single time the difficulty was increased. And hearing the very same argument you use every single time (i heard it used even during HoT launch, where the jump in difficulty was self-evident and yep people kept saying that anyone that remained in the game so far should have been ready for that level of difficulty already).Hint: it's likely there are the very same players that complained about Mordremoth, Soul Eater, Balthasar or Mark II Beta Exterminator fights. You

do

remember those threads, i hope?

You keep talking as if you represent all the "actual" gw2 players

I represent those that are playing the current game, and have been playing it for years, experiencing the increase in challenge over them.Funny how i don't think you represent me at all even though i also did play from the very beginning and also experienced the increases in difficulty.

We'll see how the game will turn out now that it has been over-simplified with the Icebrood Saga so much. Will the number of players that used to complain and now come back outweigh those that were left with the game but will leave due to the challenge drop?Unlikely, but that would be actually for a multitude of other reasons. Basically, the game is already at the point where more people will be leaving it than returning unless something really major changes. Which seems quite unlikely.

We'll certainly know by the end of the Icebrood Saga, or even during it, if there are changes to this new policy of making the game so yawning easy.As i said, you will not know that, because players would be leaving that game for multitude of other reasons. In fact, have been leaving the game for multitude of other reasons already.

What we do know however is that increasing difficulty of the game, when it happened, did not cause more players to come back than were leaving. For the whole time when Anet was constantly increasing difficulty of the game, the population still kept decreasing.

[DutchRiders.2871]

To me it seems your auto attacks and press F abilities are not sufficient to clear this content. The best solution is to get more auto attacks and press F interactions, which I would do by inviting other players to the instance. It is an online game after all.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Complaining every single time the difficulty was increased.

And some of the most important outliers were "fixed". There were threads complaining about the difficulty of the game since August 2012, there is still that boss Giganticus Lupicus that caused many players to have fits of rage. Or threads about Young Karka when Southsun was first introduced. A lot of players adapted to the changes and stayed with the game.

Funny how i don't think you represent me at all even though i also did play from the very beginning and also experienced the increases in difficulty.

So the difficulty of the game kept increasing for about 6 years straight and now there is a complaint about it and for some reason Anet now, 6 years later, needs to act upon it. Telling the players that stayed with the game for 6 years to go find another game because now they want to do an 180 and reverse everything they've done since October 2012, with their first content release that DID have more challenging content than what is found in core tyria, is a really stupid move.

Unlikely, but that would be actually for a multitude of other reasons. Basically, the game is already at the point where more people will be leaving it than returning unless something really major changes. Which seems quite unlikely.

There is already a major change, a massive reduction in the overall difficulty of the content and total scrapping of anything of a higher challenge level. We'll see how it affects the game going forward.

In fact, have been leaving the game for multitude of other reasons already.

Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

[Ashantara.8731]

@maddoctor.2738 said:Those players that left due to the increasing difficulty of the last 6 years should be coming back now that the game is back to kindergarten level difficulty. Otherwise the entire move makes no sense.

:+1: