Basic testing would have shown the issues with revenant, too...
This feature was released halfway done. What happened to the philosophy of "We'll release it when it's ready"?
@ancafr.9274 said:
I tried this 'template' again but i think it only work with SAME WEAPONS, I tried on my ranger with the same weapons and it worked but it didnt work for my thief with different weapons, can anyone explain me why? or this ONLY WORKS with same type of weapons on all templates? and IF IT WORKS with different type of weapons can anyone tell me how do i get this to work please? Thanks.
The weapon type is irrelevant. You seem to not understand a specific mechanic which must be causing the confusion.
Can you explain in detail what you are trying to do so we can figure out the error of thinking?
Even if there is a 3 sec build template or 10 sec equipment time to signify swapping mindset and items in inventory. It would keep mid-combat swapping to extremely tactical situations.
I know you can do the same thing just as quick with the Hero tab, but for a person who has multiple builds it could cut down on accidental mistakes.
Yes, builds and armour/weapon load outs have key binds in the options menu
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
@Zok.4956 said:
What I am asking myself: How could this system pass QA?
That's a really good question. The behaviour of legendary items within the system makes it look like they didn't test it fully.
I'm sure they tested it. I'm also sure that they found many of the issues before release. However, in my experience QA just find the issues and create tickets to record and track them. They don't decide release schedules and they don't typically have the authority to prevent a release.
@amnessa.6154 said:
Imagine one of the most followed topic is unsticked wow. What would be the odds of it hah. Oh wait...
Technicly is not
It may has 31k views , but it combined of many threads with posts and views
They used some debious method to access its popularity :
By creating a second thread , 2 days later and not combining any threads to it https://imgur.com/5LD6nJP
106 posts -2.400 views
But they should fix the bugs althought
Need some things to sort out , till the start of March
In Semptember ... i am sorry.... but it will be my last chance to get in Coellege , at my age
@Solitude.2097 said:
But they should fix the bugs althought
That makes it very strange. They publish something at September and didn't plan any resources for bugfixes till January (or even later)?
I mean there are so many things that are broken:
they are not working as templates
Revenant is broken
Legendaries are broken
Dyes are broken
Skins are broken
Mantras are broken
The existing loadouts are broken
These and many improvements have to wait for 4 months? In the meantime one or two living world chapters may be released and we are still waiting for bugfixes? And these are against those people that may spend a lot of money in this game? (Hint those people that have Legendaries may have more playing time as the average player and therefore will pay more money.)
I would never expect a buxfix for an update in the Summer will have to wait till Winter to get fixed. Such late response time may lead to less people playing the game and therefore less people paying.
@BadHealer.3608 what do you exactly mean with broken? broken like too good or broken in terms of weak or something cause why should a skin be broken?. Well anyways my feedback to templates is quite easy: Templates are in my opinion a useless rip-off. The old system used to be much better, you had 1 build per char per gamemode and now u have 1 build per char for all gamemodes and you have to use templates to save other builds for quick changes so basically 3 template slots are needed if u use 1 build per gamemode now on every char. having 8+ chars that i use in every single gamemode means i have to spend quite some money to get to the old "free" level again making the new system more than unnecessary in my opinion.
@ancafr.9274 said:
I tried this 'template' again but i think it only work with SAME WEAPONS, I tried on my ranger with the same weapons and it worked but it didnt work for my thief with different weapons, can anyone explain me why? or this ONLY WORKS with same type of weapons on all templates? and IF IT WORKS with different type of weapons can anyone tell me how do i get this to work please? Thanks.
Can you maybe explain better?
What do you mean by different weapons? are you trying to leave them in your inventory?
I have 3 gear templates on my necro and each use completely different weapons and stats.
@ancafr.9274 said:
I tried this 'template' again but i think it only work with SAME WEAPONS, I tried on my ranger with the same weapons and it worked but it didnt work for my thief with different weapons, can anyone explain me why? or this ONLY WORKS with same type of weapons on all templates? and IF IT WORKS with different type of weapons can anyone tell me how do i get this to work please? Thanks.
The weapon type is irrelevant. You seem to not understand a specific mechanic which must be causing the confusion.
Can you explain in detail what you are trying to do so we can figure out the error of thinking?
Is just like i said... on my ranger that uses the same type of weapons, longbow/axe/torch on both templates slots it works perfect fine.. but on my thief i use rifle/sword/dagger template 1 and i wanted to make one with dual pistol/sword/dagger on template slot 2 but when i switch to template 2 only the rifle/sword/dagger trait remains and i have to manually open the char window with H then switch manually. Plus I cant use any rifle skills cause the trait for Deadeye isnt active and i get a 'shadow' on the weapons skills. For exemple is like if you equip deadeye trait but then you replace with a core without remove the previous weapon.. it remain in hand but u cant use any skills.
In other words, the template is active but the weapons DO NOT switch...
@ancafr.9274 said:
Is just like i said... on my ranger that uses the same type of weapons, longbow/axe/torch on both templates slots it works perfect fine.. but on my thief i use rifle/sword/dagger template 1 and i wanted to make one with dual pistol/sword/dagger on template slot 2 but when i switch to template 2 only the rifle/sword/dagger trait remains and i have to manually open the char window with H then switch manually. Plus I cant use any rifle skills cause the trait for Deadeye isnt active and i get a 'shadow' on the weapons skills. For exemple is like if you equip deadeye trait but then you replace with a core without remove the previous weapon.. it remain in hand but u cant use any skills.
In other words, the template is active but the weapons DO NOT switch...
And there is your error of thinking: Build loadouts and weapon loadouts are NOT connected. You have to switch each one separately, there is no link between the two. It is not a bug but the way it was designed.
@ancafr.9274 said:
Is just like i said... on my ranger that uses the same type of weapons, longbow/axe/torch on both templates slots it works perfect fine.. but on my thief i use rifle/sword/dagger template 1 and i wanted to make one with dual pistol/sword/dagger on template slot 2 but when i switch to template 2 only the rifle/sword/dagger trait remains and i have to manually open the char window with H then switch manually. Plus I cant use any rifle skills cause the trait for Deadeye isnt active and i get a 'shadow' on the weapons skills. For exemple is like if you equip deadeye trait but then you replace with a core without remove the previous weapon.. it remain in hand but u cant use any skills.
In other words, the template is active but the weapons DO NOT switch...
And there is your error of thinking: Build loadouts and weapon loadouts are NOT connected. You have to switch each one separately, there is no link between the two. It is not a bug but the way it was designed.
Ashantara is right. It's by design. Arguably unintuitive and clumsy design but ..by design.
One thing you can do to make it easier is set some hotkeys. I use Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2, etc for the equipment templates, and Alt-1, Alt-2, Alt-3 for the build templates.
So when I want to change to the first "loadout" I press Ctrl-1 then Alt-1. For loadout 2, I press Ctrl-2 then Alt-2.
It's not much but if you're going to keep using the templates, it might help.
Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.
Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:
• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.
• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.
• Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.
Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.
We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.
Thank you!
Appreciate that these 3 points being talked about.
But other very important ones raised in the thread are still unanswered.
Especially what has been called the "Monetization fiasco" in other threads.
It kinda feels weird to make a post here and not even mention them.
Because that kinda makes me feel they are ignored.
And I imagine others feel the same as well.
As a person who never used the arc-template, I certainly do not have what others have exprienced as a big downgrade from arc, but I do feel that the current system is not really helpful even if it's the first time for me to use a template.
I'm in between casual and hardcore. I don't raid like others, but I do fractals regularly, and enjoy mostly casual content, that means I don't really need more than 2 builds on each character (in most cases I just use a new character slot for different purpose); however, being a hardcore-casual like me have met veterians, I was being encouraged to start raiding, start doing fractal CM, it's the vets who played many builds taught me how to improve my playing style, and I've begun to understand the boons/class skills/mechanics and all that, I was even encouraged to try a different build, therefore I really wish the game cater for vets so they can play around with builds and later teach players like me (who is absolutely too dumb to play the game) , and it's the vet who has the ability to convert the casual to the hardcore, like how I was converted.
What I find flaws in the current system is that:
Having loadout & template separated makes the system so clunky - personally I've never used the loadout at all (tested it once may be), because there's no need for me share builds to a different character on the same account, and if I need to grab a new build from the website, I can just copy the link and paste it directly to the template itself, but I must praise that sharing builds is a great idea; however I do have a "thought" to improve it and it's drafted, but the basic idea was to scratch the tabs on the right hand side, and be able to do everything on the left panel.
The heavy monetization were the biggest problem/mistake - prior to the launch, I was planning to get a few gem cards to prepare for this launch, just at that time the local store doen't sell it (luckily), or I'll be hugely disappointed. I once joked about the template would be like 400 gems each, my team disagreed on me, they thought I was crazy to predict that Anet to charge on template, or even charge that much if it were to monetized, but I was sad to found out that I was right..... and it was taken to the next level: tripple monetization with each function cost a premium. I'm new to the raid and was already asked to make different builds for different situation and bosses, but since the gear/build templates charged a premium and the upgrade were only character-bound, I feel no incentive to buy more slot, nor to make a different build (with different gear set). I just lost my motivation to experience different things on the same class for raid (and I'm only just started). I wish the gear/build templates were only charged once (but not twice nor thrice), 100 gems each (and be able to buy up to 10-20 slots), and better yet, account-wide unlock if you plan to charge more.
Character/soul-bound unlock for gear/build templates were a mistake - well-done on the gear tabs that clears up the bag slot, just unfortunately I never liked any soul-bound unlock, just like I'd rather pay more for a 32-slot bag so that I can later transfer it to a different character, I'd never ever pay for any soul-bound bag slot unlock. The reason is that if after I've spent the money, time and effort on a character , incomes a huge nerf patch few months later and made the said character no longer viable in the game mode that I play anymore, it'd be a huge waste. Please make soul-bound unlock account-bound instead, or it'll be the same situation as bag-slot, that I'll never want to unlock any if it's soul-bound.
The free templates weren't really free - in shorts, they were taken from PVP/WVW/PVE that existed in the game, I'm sure I don't need to explain how inconvenient it is to have the automatic switch-over got taken off.
There are only 2 gear tabs for 3 templates... - yes you can buy the 3rd, but keep in mind that each game mode/build uses different gear/weapon combo, 2 gear tabs for 3 templates doesn't really work, it'd be great if there's 1 more free gear tab.
I've never used legendary therefore I cannot comment on that.
I hope my feedback will be taken into consideration, because not all but like many others we all felt the same the same way. I'll be happy to unlock more template slots but not at the current price.... Account-wide would be more reasonable.
Holiday is coming up, I wish everyone here Merry Christmas.
@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:
One thing you can do to make it easier is set some hotkeys. I use Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2, etc for the equipment templates, and Alt-1, Alt-2, Alt-3 for the build templates.
So when I want to change to the first "loadout" I press Ctrl-1 then Alt-1. For loadout 2, I press Ctrl-2 then Alt-2.
Which is yet another example of the clunky and unfinished design. People who do max out their loadouts are supposed to reserve 12 to 20 (after the expected upgrade to 10 each) buttons reserved just for switching builds? Who ever came up with that.
Why not just have 2-4 buttons total: "Next loadout", "next equipment", maybe also "previous" each.
@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:
One thing you can do to make it easier is set some hotkeys. I use Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2, etc for the equipment templates, and Alt-1, Alt-2, Alt-3 for the build templates.
So when I want to change to the first "loadout" I press Ctrl-1 then Alt-1. For loadout 2, I press Ctrl-2 then Alt-2.
Which is yet another example of the clunky and unfinished design. People who do max out their loadouts are supposed to reserve 12 to 20 (after the expected upgrade to 10 each) buttons reserved just for switching builds? Who ever came up with that.
Why not just have 2-4 buttons total: "Next loadout", "next equipment", maybe also "previous" each.
I already use shift+, Ctrl+ and Alt+ for many other skills. I really don't have room for any more hotkeys. If they make equipment and build templates connected would make more sense and function better. Or even make a UI tab/icon as they did for mounts or novelties.
@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:
One thing you can do to make it easier is set some hotkeys. I use Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2, etc for the equipment templates, and Alt-1, Alt-2, Alt-3 for the build templates.
So when I want to change to the first "loadout" I press Ctrl-1 then Alt-1. For loadout 2, I press Ctrl-2 then Alt-2.
Which is yet another example of the clunky and unfinished design. People who do max out their loadouts are supposed to reserve 12 to 20 (after the expected upgrade to 10 each) buttons reserved just for switching builds? Who ever came up with that.
Why not just have 2-4 buttons total: "Next loadout", "next equipment", maybe also "previous" each.
I already use shift+, Ctrl+ and Alt+ for many other skills. I really don't have room for any more hotkeys. If they make equipment and build templates connected would make more sense and function better. Or even make a UI tab/icon as they did for mounts or novelties.
Well you can still change manually in the meantime. I also want linked template shortcuts but it takes ~2 seconds to do both using the menus.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura. "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
@ancafr.9274 said:
Is just like i said... on my ranger that uses the same type of weapons, longbow/axe/torch on both templates slots it works perfect fine.. but on my thief i use rifle/sword/dagger template 1 and i wanted to make one with dual pistol/sword/dagger on template slot 2 but when i switch to template 2 only the rifle/sword/dagger trait remains and i have to manually open the char window with H then switch manually. Plus I cant use any rifle skills cause the trait for Deadeye isnt active and i get a 'shadow' on the weapons skills. For exemple is like if you equip deadeye trait but then you replace with a core without remove the previous weapon.. it remain in hand but u cant use any skills.
In other words, the template is active but the weapons DO NOT switch...
And there is your error of thinking: Build loadouts and weapon loadouts are NOT connected. You have to switch each one separately, there is no link between the two. It is not a bug but the way it was designed.
I see now... like I said kinda useless since the weapons DO NOT CHANGE.. it only saves the times of doing a new trait for WvW, PvP etc etc. If they make it to change the weapons too without need to change them manually then it would be perfect. Sorry Elementalist and Engineer.. no ''weapons switching'' for ya come again next time xD. Btw ty for the help.
'' Hey Moxxi you should be bright orange, because this body... is LEGENDARY!''. (Borderlands 2 Drunk)
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Can we choose if we want this or not?
Like a tick box in the menu, to say if we want the game to remember?
Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
Aight but I'm totally still going to have to use a PvE build in Structured PvP from now on because I can't afford to give up a slot
This was my fear - we needed 1 or 2 other equip slots granted to match the build count or something., though I get the feeling PvP will get some other "phantom slots" that are strictly for use in PvP. That would please the player base in that mode, I think.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
[...]
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Fantastic! Thanks for the update. And send the peeps who are working on this our regards.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Thanks for the update! Good news!
It'd be appreciate if you can also address the template cost issue and whether if you can make it account-wide unlock or not.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
I don't do PVP - EVER. This hopefully isn't assigning one of the "templates" to pvp. I only ever go between PVE and WvW.
@Heibi.4251 said:
I don't do PVP - EVER. This hopefully isn't assigning one of the "templates" to pvp. I only ever go between PVE and WvW.
Considering they STOLE the Loadout from PvP, I doubt they'll give it back 100%.
Loadouts could stay mode-independent, with a box to tick for 'load this when entering PvP'.
I actually wouldn't mind reversing this whole mistake, but then they'd have to deal with refunds.
Thank you, Rubi. This should pretty much restore the QoL we've had before the patch.
I think storing the "last loadout" per gamemode is a good solution. Those who don't play multiple modes per character are not affected and for the rest of us it should be like it has been for the last years.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
will the next patch only bring improvements to the templates etc or the long awaited balancing too, that was told about in the forum?^^
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Since you guys keep working on the templates loadouts and push updates to it, please. make. this. thread. sticky. again.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Thank you Rubi for the update. Please advise the powers that be that this is the type of communication that some of us have desperately needed. Hopefully, they will give a list or outline of other things they are working on for the future of templates.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Can we choose if we want this or not?
Like a tick box in the menu, to say if we want the game to remember?
Why would you not like the game to auto switch gear and traits when entering wvw then back to pve ones when exiting?
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Thank you Rubi for the update. Please advise the powers that be that this is the type of communication that some of us have desperately needed. Hopefully, they will give a list or outline of other things they are working on for the future of templates.
Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
Aight but I'm totally still going to have to use a PvE build in Structured PvP from now on because I can't afford to give up a slot
They should just do the right thing, and give every character 2 free build slots for PvE, 2 for WvW and 2 for PvP. That way they would be factually correct in saying they gave us "3 free build slots" since as it stands today, all they did was re-purpose/label the 3 build slots we always had since the game launched.
Unfortunately this design is actively making the player base worse at the game. The biggest problem the casual playerbase has is they have 1 build they play in pvp/wvw/pve and its the same build. I don't see how adding pvp amulet/rune/sigils to the current system is going to fix that mind set. But hey I guess this is the direction of the current company.
I wonder if including the character slot expansion in the Black Friday Sales is a kind of apology, really.
I mean, character slots have always been and will continue to be valid alternatives to build templates.
If it's meant as a roundabout apology, then thanks for the thought. I suppose a 95 % discount on the actual loadouts / templates is not an option, so a bit of a discount on character slots is better than nothing.
@CptAurellian.9537 said:
So, they're finally fixing one entirely self-created issue. I'm almost impressed.
I wonder if they've acknowledged internally yet that building the whole system around direct monetization was a huge mistake. Overengineered the whole thing, wasting god knows how many manhours, and generated a lot of ill will for a feature that should have been nothing but a simple and exciting gameplay enhancement that would generate good will and hype.
I've played with this "template" system for few weeks and I'd like to expand on my initial opinion. It was positive, but I want to note that I've never used Arc Templates. And I'm glad I haven't, because otherwise I'd probably be just as pissed as almost everyone else in this thread. I've used player-made templates in another game, so I imagine how they might have looked like.
For someone like me, these "templates" (they are not real templates, build storage is) are much better than having nothing at all. However, it seems like they were designed for people who never make ANY changes to their builds; every minor change, like switching 1 trait or weapons, is more troublesome than before. Before, I only had to remember if I made changes to my current build; now I need to remember this for ALL builds that I have. So basically this system is expanding inconvenience that real templates are supposed to fix.
For example, if I have 2 different armor sets in "template" 1 and 2, and I want to mix them up for whatever reason (fashion, min-maxing stats, different weapons), it creates all sorts of problems: items will be randomly popping up in my inventory, and when I'd want to return to my original setup, fixing all "templates" would be more hassle than it is worth. And I don't even have any legendary gear! (That would be nightmare.)
But even if you have everything set up perfectly, never make changes to your whole 2 FREE "templates", having them split into 2 tabs feels completely unnecessary and... wrong? I must admit, I was never a fan of this game's interface, where you have 1 window with thousand tabs (and tabs within tabs). You have 1 tab for changing/activating outfit, another for changing it's colors, then even another for hiding back item... so you end up with like 10 extra clicks for something as simple as changing outifts. It would be great to have template system for outfits/colors too btw, but my main point here is: these tabs should be more condensed, with more utility in each tab instead of having tabs with singular purpose. There was a lengthy post with lots of modified screenshots few pages ago that explained how it could look like. I don't know if that was the best possible implementation, but there were a lot of good ideas there.
Having additional bag slots is neat, but it's so obvious that they were added to this "template" system to justify monetization. Nobody ever would expect templates to give you more bag slots, that is not their purpose. Their purpose is making changes to gear and skills instant and convenient, no matter how big or small the change would be.
So yes, this is good start ANet, but if you're going to keep things like they are now, you're shooting yourself in a knee. This system needs to be expanded, A LOT, to resemble one that GW1 had. Storing builds locally is absolutely fine, as long as you're able to have infinite number of them. So instead of "build storage" we need in-game support for storing/loading builds locally. We can do this manually right now, by copypasting codes to text files, but once again, the key word for templates is: convenience. And of course, there need to be something like "build storge" for equipment. If you can't make it (someone said that ANet didn't want to touch equipment coding, but I haven't seen source of this information), while it was possible in Arc Templates, then something's wrong... Think, third party developers could manage your code better than your own?
I don't know about you ANet, but I'd like to have this game alive for years to come; if you care about long-term health of your games, I believe you should reconsider your short-sighted policy.
@Rubi Bayer.8493 said:
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates
P.S. Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong? PvP equipment never had anything to do with your actual items, so why would you change it by making it part of equipment "templates"? It should be integrated, but into BUILD "templates"!
Rubi's announcement is the best thing to happen for WvW players since the equipment templates launched honestly. The main secondary reason is there is a definitive time table of December 3 rather than "we are working on it" or "soon".
The monetization on the build templates/storage could still use improvement but that is not a technical issue so that's besides the point. That's not something that needs patching out.
@Fenella.2634 said:
I wonder if including the character slot expansion in the Black Friday Sales is a kind of apology, really.
I mean, character slots have always been and will continue to be valid alternatives to build templates.
If it's meant as a roundabout apology, then thanks for the thought. I suppose a 95 % discount on the actual loadouts / templates is not an option, so a bit of a discount on character slots is better than nothing.
Do you know how ridiculous a 95% discount sounds?
From a business / merchant standpoint:
Paypal's page lists the following example: "2% + $0.103 markup + a 1.8% interchange fee = $3.90 fee on a $100 sale". For other payment methods it's far higher, on the order of 3.5% or so for AMEX and around 2.6% for VISA/Mastercard and that's before any Euro to USD conversion charges.
If anything there needs to be a price reduction on buying in bulk for equipment templates and the build templates in build storage could be increased per purchase. For example, if you buy 5 equipment templates whatever the charge for credit cards is reduced on a per-template basis. This is evidenced by the price reduction on buying bulk of other items.
i.e. if it's a $1 basic transaction charge on a 500 gem ($6.25) equipment template , dropping it down to ~400 gems each at 5 templates bulk price would make sense. It's most readily apparent with the cheapest gemstore items such as Knife Tail Gang Hunting Bond , Dye Kits, Item Boosters or Metabolic Primers.
I'm guessing two equipment templates probably fits most of the user-base that doesn't play support and only run Berserker's + Viper's,
Build templates are currently priced the way they are mainly due to hotkey function. The workaround for people that don't WvW/PVP is just to use the templates given "free" for those modes ; the majority of people likely only run power+condi+maybe support. I know many WVW players simply opt for a separate WVW character slot or even one per elite spec (18 slots). Even so , a template swap is as simple as a chat-code so the inability to hotkey swap is an annoyance but not world-ending.
The build storage expansions could just be simply reduced in price to 5 or 9 build storage per gem purchase, this way there would be no need for refunds. Coding & chargebacks would be minimal as the number of templates given by the build storage item would just be switched from "3" to a higher number. Arenanet dug themselves in a hole because the base build storage could have been 9 slots instead of 3+ 3 free for the first month(s). Bank tabs are 600 gems for 30 slots and are item slots not just chatcode copy-paste replacements.
There's businesses where the minimum charge for credit cards is in the order of $10-15. Factor in there needs to be at least 30% margin after everyone involved is paid (the credit card company, the NCSoft payment processing, the currency conversion, etc) and there's "price anchoring" so that there is profit even when a 20-50% sale is introduced.
From a player standpoint:
From a player standpoint what you gain from equipment templates is minimal if you only play PVE casually. A 800 gem (base price) character slot affords you more flexibility , especially if you bought a world boss portal device or recharging teleport to friend since the primary issue with a new character is levels (non-issue for WvW players with stacks of tomes) , hero points for elite specs (non-issue for WvW players with hero point scrolls) and waypoint unlocks (relatively quick with mounts) , extra time for relogging / character switching, needing to character swap if it's WvW and possibly hitting a queue (non-issue if you have a WvW specific character).
For raids, the waypoint unlocks are meaningless and also for WVW/PVP.
For PvE:
Guardian (5): Power (DH), Condition, Condition Quickness (mainly rune swap) , Power Quickness (mainly rune swap), Heal --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're only looking at Power and Quickness mainly
Mesmer (5): Power Boon , Condition Boon, Power, Condition, Condition Axe (weapon + rune swap) --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're looking at power + power boon mainly
Revenant (3-4): Power Herald (zerk, no boon duration), Power + Alacrity, Condition, Heal (less common) --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're looking at power + alacrity only
Elementalist (3-5): Power + Power Sword (only weapon swap) , Condition + Condition Sword (only weapon swap), Support Tempest --- power elementalist remains the main use of elementalist, you rarely see people ask for a support tempest in LFG
Thief (3-5): Power staff, Power rifle (only weapon swap ; single target means typically raids only), Power daggers (only weapon swap), condition, boon (only raids due to detonate plasma) --- mainly power
Ranger (3-4): Heal, Power, Condition, Condition Dagger (weapon swap) --- druids fell out of favor for fractals, so it's mainly power Soulbeast for most people
Necromancer (3): Power, Condition, Heal --- mainly power reapers
Engineer (3) : Power, Condition, Heal (less common) --- mainly power holosmiths
Warrior (2-3): Power, Power with offhand daggers, Condition --- mainly power banners/spellbreakers
Summary: Guardian, Chrono are most affected because rune swap takes more effort than weapon swap ; three main archetypes are power + condi + support (boon/heal)
For WvW (the other use for equipment template slots):
Firebrand , Scrapper usually run minstrel's which are rarely used in PVE
Herald typically is running full berserker unless frontline rev
Power scourge is usually full berserker , unless cele scourge for extra strength of barriers and corrupted boons
Spellbreaker usually has marauder gear or some form of vitality (paired with defense traitline + defy pain)
Weaver and thief (Staff daredevil most commonly) are always running some form of vitality
Chrono is mostly gutted in WvW due to clone reliance and mirage is typically condi so is unfavored for squad play
Ranger can run berserker's soulbeast but generally unwanted due to projectile / pet liability
The value-adds from a new character slot are immense:
Extra character-bound birthday gifts
The option to map complete new Living Story / Icebrood Saga / future episodes for extra one-time rewards (for Grothmar Valley this meant an extra chance for Visage of Khan-Ur , which is bad design honestly).
The ability to gain extra story rewards (see sigil of nullification fiasco)
Up to 3 extra legendary gifts from map completion per character with zero diminishing returns on Central Tyria (TP sellable gen 1 legendary items)
Ability to stash extra unused items without cluttering bank tabs (storage characters for accountbound items that can't go in a guild bank and are unused often such that a bank tab is wasteful)
An extra equipment template is included at a minimum (cost = 500 gems) , if completely different gear then you can count it as the full 2 templates (1000 gems)
Two extra build templates if character is used for a single game-mode (cost = 300 gems each so = 600 gems) , if builds are entirely different you can count it as 3 build templates (= 900 gems)
You have isolated inventory so if you don't PvE on that WvW character you can put all your siege + WvW specific gear and utility/food on it.
If you have the patience and/or time, weekly delete and reroll for black lion keys by doing low level story (I don't do this but people have key farmers)
If you WvW , an extra character slot affords you 3 build templates and 2 equipment templates for equipment with toughness that normally isn't run in PVE (i.e. minstrel's, trailblazer, dire, etc) = total value of 1900 gems. Realistically there's only 2 meta WvW builds (squad-play, roaming) for a given class so it's probably closer to 1600 gems' value.
The only way for the templates to be remotely competitive with a character slot in its current state is if a build template was half the price or equipment templates were account-wide unlocks; I don't see equipment templates dropping more than a hundred gems or so given the pricing on bag slots (400 gems , character-bound). A 95% discount isn't necessary to make the template option enticing but build templates (and build storage) remain the most irrationally priced aspect of the system. That's especially a problem when the entire build storage monetization can be circumvented with a chat-code.
People have been suggesting that more templates be given to each character slot, but that would just make character slots even more appealing than templates. The only way that can be rectified is if the "free" build templates were locked to a game mode such that a new character slot has two templates for PvE game mode , 1 for WvW (if templates worked as originally stated where the templates can only swap at spawn/home keep), 1 for PvP (since hotswapping mid-match isn't possible anyway there's no reason over build storage) and the given build storage increased per purchase. That way build templates exist for hot-key convenience in PvE and not "pay-to-win" in WVW as some have been stating in the WvW subforum.
** In that scenario , where each character has 2 PvE build templates , the value-add of a character slot as far as build templates is diminished greatly to 300-600 gems or whatever 1-2 build templates amounts to : that's why build templates should still be reduced in price or come in reduced price 5 packs. It doesn't quite address the equipment templates nearly as well however as you'd still be looking at an added 2 templates vs only one template per 500 gems.
@Fenella.2634 said:
I wonder if including the character slot expansion in the Black Friday Sales is a kind of apology, really.
I mean, character slots have always been and will continue to be valid alternatives to build templates.
If it's meant as a roundabout apology, then thanks for the thought. I suppose a 95 % discount on the actual loadouts / templates is not an option, so a bit of a discount on character slots is better than nothing.
Do you know how ridiculous a 95% discount sounds?
Yes. Sure. About as ridiculous as charging several hundred Euros for a simple feature.
I'd pay about 20 € max for a complete unlock accountwide. That corresponds to about 5-10 % of the price, so there we go. And even 20 € is expensive. Normally, features like build templates should be simply included in the game.
I don't expect a discount like that though. I think I'll just continue to use the three loadouts as usual and create some more characters if needed. I've never used ArcTemplate, so it's not much of a downgrade, but it's still a bit of a letdown, as I, too, was hoping for real build templates. Oh well.
There was some nice time with this game all those years.
To force you buy more as an apology, is not apology at all.
i was out since templates release.
Time to play something else.
Thank you for all the constructive feedback you’ve provided about templates. We’ve spent a lot of time reading and discussing your thoughts, and we’ve identified a few updates we feel confident we can start working on.
Here are the pieces of feedback we’re currently working on addressing:
• Automatically switching build and equipment templates when a character enters or exits PvP and WvW. We’ll need to make updates to this functionality to further integrate templates with PvP.
• Ease of swapping legendary equipment between characters.
• Greater flexibility when making experimental changes to templates.
Because we have limited time to program, test, and implement these changes before the winter holidays, we’ll be able to give you a progress update early in the new year.
We’ll keep reading your feedback, so please continue to share your thoughts as you play with templates.
Thank you!
By the way, the default mount you set in PvE will always reset to Warclaw after you enter and leave WvW.
Please make the game switch back to the PvE mount we set before we enter WvW.
My two biggest problems with this is first that if you like to play rev if you switch builds its like a puzzle re-arranging every single skill where it is supposed to be in the build template. Then after that hoping and praying that when you press the button that it is actually the skill that is being shown. So this system for playing rev is like gambling at the roulette table when you try to use a skill. Then also wierd kitten happens if you need to switch legendary pieces out because it may show you have infusions but then not actually have any at all and have to go find out exactly where these infusions are located if you play a lot of different characters.
So overall I had become bored with the game but then this build system made it entirely too frustrating to even bother with this game anymore. I would love to know whose great idea it was to say hey lets make it where it automatically strips every upgrade out of your legendary items and play hide and seek with them. So I guess the bigger picture here is that they want players to stop spending money on legendary items and replace them back with ascended(great job anet but I am kind of too annoyed to do that).
Comments
Basic testing would have shown the issues with revenant, too...
This feature was released halfway done. What happened to the philosophy of "We'll release it when it's ready"?
The weapon type is irrelevant. You seem to not understand a specific mechanic which must be causing the confusion.
Can you explain in detail what you are trying to do so we can figure out the error of thinking?
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No more LW episodes, only Expansions and Side Stories, please!
Yes, builds and armour/weapon load outs have key binds in the options menu
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
Trying to make this work make me more frustrated than ignoring the feature.... The more I try, the more problems I run into.
BTW: Why can't we store dyes colors per change. This is something I highly wanted, and would help the sting.
I'm sure they tested it. I'm also sure that they found many of the issues before release. However, in my experience QA just find the issues and create tickets to record and track them. They don't decide release schedules and they don't typically have the authority to prevent a release.
Technicly is not
It may has 31k views , but it combined of many threads with posts and views
They used some debious method to access its popularity :
By creating a second thread , 2 days later and not combining any threads to it
https://imgur.com/5LD6nJP
106 posts -2.400 views
But they should fix the bugs althought
Need some things to sort out , till the start of March
In Semptember ... i am sorry.... but it will be my last chance to get in Coellege , at my age
That makes it very strange. They publish something at September and didn't plan any resources for bugfixes till January (or even later)?
I mean there are so many things that are broken:
These and many improvements have to wait for 4 months? In the meantime one or two living world chapters may be released and we are still waiting for bugfixes? And these are against those people that may spend a lot of money in this game? (Hint those people that have Legendaries may have more playing time as the average player and therefore will pay more money.)
I would never expect a buxfix for an update in the Summer will have to wait till Winter to get fixed. Such late response time may lead to less people playing the game and therefore less people paying.
@BadHealer.3608 what do you exactly mean with broken? broken like too good or broken in terms of weak or something cause why should a skin be broken?. Well anyways my feedback to templates is quite easy: Templates are in my opinion a useless rip-off. The old system used to be much better, you had 1 build per char per gamemode and now u have 1 build per char for all gamemodes and you have to use templates to save other builds for quick changes so basically 3 template slots are needed if u use 1 build per gamemode now on every char. having 8+ chars that i use in every single gamemode means i have to spend quite some money to get to the old "free" level again making the new system more than unnecessary in my opinion.
Is just like i said... on my ranger that uses the same type of weapons, longbow/axe/torch on both templates slots it works perfect fine.. but on my thief i use rifle/sword/dagger template 1 and i wanted to make one with dual pistol/sword/dagger on template slot 2 but when i switch to template 2 only the rifle/sword/dagger trait remains and i have to manually open the char window with H then switch manually. Plus I cant use any rifle skills cause the trait for Deadeye isnt active and i get a 'shadow' on the weapons skills. For exemple is like if you equip deadeye trait but then you replace with a core without remove the previous weapon.. it remain in hand but u cant use any skills.
In other words, the template is active but the weapons DO NOT switch...
http://www.imagebam.com/image/da4bc01326228999
'' Hey Moxxi you should be bright orange, because this body... is LEGENDARY!''. (Borderlands 2 Drunk)
And there is your error of thinking: Build loadouts and weapon loadouts are NOT connected. You have to switch each one separately, there is no link between the two. It is not a bug but the way it was designed.
♀ Gallery: Guild Wars 1 Memories
No more LW episodes, only Expansions and Side Stories, please!
Ashantara is right. It's by design. Arguably unintuitive and clumsy design but ..by design.
One thing you can do to make it easier is set some hotkeys. I use Ctrl-1, Ctrl-2, etc for the equipment templates, and Alt-1, Alt-2, Alt-3 for the build templates.
So when I want to change to the first "loadout" I press Ctrl-1 then Alt-1. For loadout 2, I press Ctrl-2 then Alt-2.
It's not much but if you're going to keep using the templates, it might help.
Appreciate that these 3 points being talked about.
But other very important ones raised in the thread are still unanswered.
Especially what has been called the "Monetization fiasco" in other threads.
It kinda feels weird to make a post here and not even mention them.
Because that kinda makes me feel they are ignored.
And I imagine others feel the same as well.
As a person who never used the arc-template, I certainly do not have what others have exprienced as a big downgrade from arc, but I do feel that the current system is not really helpful even if it's the first time for me to use a template.
I'm in between casual and hardcore. I don't raid like others, but I do fractals regularly, and enjoy mostly casual content, that means I don't really need more than 2 builds on each character (in most cases I just use a new character slot for different purpose); however, being a hardcore-casual like me have met veterians, I was being encouraged to start raiding, start doing fractal CM, it's the vets who played many builds taught me how to improve my playing style, and I've begun to understand the boons/class skills/mechanics and all that, I was even encouraged to try a different build, therefore I really wish the game cater for vets so they can play around with builds and later teach players like me (who is absolutely too dumb to play the game) , and it's the vet who has the ability to convert the casual to the hardcore, like how I was converted.
What I find flaws in the current system is that:
Having loadout & template separated makes the system so clunky - personally I've never used the loadout at all (tested it once may be), because there's no need for me share builds to a different character on the same account, and if I need to grab a new build from the website, I can just copy the link and paste it directly to the template itself, but I must praise that sharing builds is a great idea; however I do have a "thought" to improve it and it's drafted, but the basic idea was to scratch the tabs on the right hand side, and be able to do everything on the left panel.
The heavy monetization were the biggest problem/mistake - prior to the launch, I was planning to get a few gem cards to prepare for this launch, just at that time the local store doen't sell it (luckily), or I'll be hugely disappointed. I once joked about the template would be like 400 gems each, my team disagreed on me, they thought I was crazy to predict that Anet to charge on template, or even charge that much if it were to monetized, but I was sad to found out that I was right..... and it was taken to the next level: tripple monetization with each function cost a premium. I'm new to the raid and was already asked to make different builds for different situation and bosses, but since the gear/build templates charged a premium and the upgrade were only character-bound, I feel no incentive to buy more slot, nor to make a different build (with different gear set). I just lost my motivation to experience different things on the same class for raid (and I'm only just started). I wish the gear/build templates were only charged once (but not twice nor thrice), 100 gems each (and be able to buy up to 10-20 slots), and better yet, account-wide unlock if you plan to charge more.
Character/soul-bound unlock for gear/build templates were a mistake - well-done on the gear tabs that clears up the bag slot, just unfortunately I never liked any soul-bound unlock, just like I'd rather pay more for a 32-slot bag so that I can later transfer it to a different character, I'd never ever pay for any soul-bound bag slot unlock. The reason is that if after I've spent the money, time and effort on a character , incomes a huge nerf patch few months later and made the said character no longer viable in the game mode that I play anymore, it'd be a huge waste. Please make soul-bound unlock account-bound instead, or it'll be the same situation as bag-slot, that I'll never want to unlock any if it's soul-bound.
The free templates weren't really free - in shorts, they were taken from PVP/WVW/PVE that existed in the game, I'm sure I don't need to explain how inconvenient it is to have the automatic switch-over got taken off.
There are only 2 gear tabs for 3 templates... - yes you can buy the 3rd, but keep in mind that each game mode/build uses different gear/weapon combo, 2 gear tabs for 3 templates doesn't really work, it'd be great if there's 1 more free gear tab.
I've never used legendary therefore I cannot comment on that.
I hope my feedback will be taken into consideration, because not all but like many others we all felt the same the same way. I'll be happy to unlock more template slots but not at the current price.... Account-wide would be more reasonable.
Holiday is coming up, I wish everyone here Merry Christmas.
Which is yet another example of the clunky and unfinished design. People who do max out their loadouts are supposed to reserve 12 to 20 (after the expected upgrade to 10 each) buttons reserved just for switching builds? Who ever came up with that.
Why not just have 2-4 buttons total: "Next loadout", "next equipment", maybe also "previous" each.
I already use shift+, Ctrl+ and Alt+ for many other skills. I really don't have room for any more hotkeys. If they make equipment and build templates connected would make more sense and function better. Or even make a UI tab/icon as they did for mounts or novelties.
Well you can still change manually in the meantime. I also want linked template shortcuts but it takes ~2 seconds to do both using the menus.
gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
A disorderly group of Asura.
"The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"
I really hope equipment templates will be less expensive
Even if it's on sale, its too much. It'll prolly be more than 100 gems, but that's too much
They should really be less than 50 gems each
please make a Taimi voice mail pack
my QoL wishes
I see now... like I said kinda useless since the weapons DO NOT CHANGE.. it only saves the times of doing a new trait for WvW, PvP etc etc. If they make it to change the weapons too without need to change them manually then it would be perfect. Sorry Elementalist and Engineer.. no ''weapons switching'' for ya come again next time xD. Btw ty for the help.
'' Hey Moxxi you should be bright orange, because this body... is LEGENDARY!''. (Borderlands 2 Drunk)
Then make just one loadout for your equipment and two for your build - problem solved.
You don't need two loadouts for the exact same equipment.
♀ Gallery: Guild Wars 1 Memories
No more LW episodes, only Expansions and Side Stories, please!
Hi all, I have some more news for you. Like I mentioned in last week's post, we had a list of updates we felt confident we could start working on and planned to give you an update on that list early in the new year. That has changed because one of the updates to build and equipment templates will be ready earlier than expected.
We've been working on an update that will automatically switch your build and equipment templates when you enter or exit PvE, WvW, or PvP. The game will remember which build and equipment template tabs were last active when you return to a game mode.
Also, PvP equipment will be integrated into all Equipment Templates, which will bring all of your equipment management into one convenient place. Our current plan is to add a new button to the equipment menu to view the PvP equipment slots in each template. By doing this, it means you to be able to manage your PvP equipment whenever you like, even outside of PvP game modes. Because PvP equipment is very different from normal inventory items, it will not take any space away from your standard equipment.
This update to Build and Equipment Templates will go live on December 3. We'll still follow with another update early in the new year.
Can we choose if we want this or not?
Like a tick box in the menu, to say if we want the game to remember?
please make a Taimi voice mail pack
my QoL wishes
Aight but I'm totally still going to have to use a PvE build in Structured PvP from now on because I can't afford to give up a slot
signature
This was my fear - we needed 1 or 2 other equip slots granted to match the build count or something., though I get the feeling PvP will get some other "phantom slots" that are strictly for use in PvP. That would please the player base in that mode, I think.
Fantastic! Thanks for the update.
And send the peeps who are working on this our regards.
♀ Gallery: Guild Wars 1 Memories
No more LW episodes, only Expansions and Side Stories, please!
Thanks for the update! Good news!
It'd be appreciate if you can also address the template cost issue and whether if you can make it account-wide unlock or not.
I don't do PVP - EVER. This hopefully isn't assigning one of the "templates" to pvp. I only ever go between PVE and WvW.
Henge of Denravi Commander
CA/CH/HOD/AIR
Considering they STOLE the Loadout from PvP, I doubt they'll give it back 100%.
Loadouts could stay mode-independent, with a box to tick for 'load this when entering PvP'.
I actually wouldn't mind reversing this whole mistake, but then they'd have to deal with refunds.
Thank you, Rubi. This should pretty much restore the QoL we've had before the patch.
I think storing the "last loadout" per gamemode is a good solution. Those who don't play multiple modes per character are not affected and for the rest of us it should be like it has been for the last years.
will the next patch only bring improvements to the templates etc or the long awaited balancing too, that was told about in the forum?^^
Since you guys keep working on the templates loadouts and push updates to it, please. make. this. thread. sticky. again.
Thanks for the autoswitch, that was my main concern and to see this fixed sooner than planned is a very good news.
Thank you Rubi for the update. Please advise the powers that be that this is the type of communication that some of us have desperately needed. Hopefully, they will give a list or outline of other things they are working on for the future of templates.
Why would you not like the game to auto switch gear and traits when entering wvw then back to pve ones when exiting?
I agree with this poster.
thanks for the update, unfortunately I uninstalled the game when your templates (loadouts) were implemented
cheers
They should just do the right thing, and give every character 2 free build slots for PvE, 2 for WvW and 2 for PvP. That way they would be factually correct in saying they gave us "3 free build slots" since as it stands today, all they did was re-purpose/label the 3 build slots we always had since the game launched.
thanks for the update, can I have your stuff?
@Rubi Bayer.8493
Thank you very much for keeping us informed,
Communication is improving. It's great. I'm so happy.
Unfortunately this design is actively making the player base worse at the game. The biggest problem the casual playerbase has is they have 1 build they play in pvp/wvw/pve and its the same build. I don't see how adding pvp amulet/rune/sigils to the current system is going to fix that mind set. But hey I guess this is the direction of the current company.
I wonder if including the character slot expansion in the Black Friday Sales is a kind of apology, really.
I mean, character slots have always been and will continue to be valid alternatives to build templates.
If it's meant as a roundabout apology, then thanks for the thought. I suppose a 95 % discount on the actual loadouts / templates is not an option, so a bit of a discount on character slots is better than nothing.
So, they're finally fixing one entirely self-created issue. I'm almost impressed.
R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019
I wonder if they've acknowledged internally yet that building the whole system around direct monetization was a huge mistake. Overengineered the whole thing, wasting god knows how many manhours, and generated a lot of ill will for a feature that should have been nothing but a simple and exciting gameplay enhancement that would generate good will and hype.
They should a have separate block of template slots for PVP. If they can split traits by PVE/PVP/WVW, then they can do this.
Purchased template slot upgrades should be assignable to PVE or PVP.
I've played with this "template" system for few weeks and I'd like to expand on my initial opinion. It was positive, but I want to note that I've never used Arc Templates. And I'm glad I haven't, because otherwise I'd probably be just as pissed as almost everyone else in this thread. I've used player-made templates in another game, so I imagine how they might have looked like.
For someone like me, these "templates" (they are not real templates, build storage is) are much better than having nothing at all. However, it seems like they were designed for people who never make ANY changes to their builds; every minor change, like switching 1 trait or weapons, is more troublesome than before. Before, I only had to remember if I made changes to my current build; now I need to remember this for ALL builds that I have. So basically this system is expanding inconvenience that real templates are supposed to fix.
For example, if I have 2 different armor sets in "template" 1 and 2, and I want to mix them up for whatever reason (fashion, min-maxing stats, different weapons), it creates all sorts of problems: items will be randomly popping up in my inventory, and when I'd want to return to my original setup, fixing all "templates" would be more hassle than it is worth. And I don't even have any legendary gear! (That would be nightmare.)
But even if you have everything set up perfectly, never make changes to your whole 2 FREE "templates", having them split into 2 tabs feels completely unnecessary and... wrong? I must admit, I was never a fan of this game's interface, where you have 1 window with thousand tabs (and tabs within tabs). You have 1 tab for changing/activating outfit, another for changing it's colors, then even another for hiding back item... so you end up with like 10 extra clicks for something as simple as changing outifts. It would be great to have template system for outfits/colors too btw, but my main point here is: these tabs should be more condensed, with more utility in each tab instead of having tabs with singular purpose. There was a lengthy post with lots of modified screenshots few pages ago that explained how it could look like. I don't know if that was the best possible implementation, but there were a lot of good ideas there.
Having additional bag slots is neat, but it's so obvious that they were added to this "template" system to justify monetization. Nobody ever would expect templates to give you more bag slots, that is not their purpose. Their purpose is making changes to gear and skills instant and convenient, no matter how big or small the change would be.
So yes, this is good start ANet, but if you're going to keep things like they are now, you're shooting yourself in a knee. This system needs to be expanded, A LOT, to resemble one that GW1 had. Storing builds locally is absolutely fine, as long as you're able to have infinite number of them. So instead of "build storage" we need in-game support for storing/loading builds locally. We can do this manually right now, by copypasting codes to text files, but once again, the key word for templates is: convenience. And of course, there need to be something like "build storge" for equipment. If you can't make it (someone said that ANet didn't want to touch equipment coding, but I haven't seen source of this information), while it was possible in Arc Templates, then something's wrong... Think, third party developers could manage your code better than your own?
I don't know about you ANet, but I'd like to have this game alive for years to come; if you care about long-term health of your games, I believe you should reconsider your short-sighted policy.
P.S. Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong? PvP equipment never had anything to do with your actual items, so why would you change it by making it part of equipment "templates"? It should be integrated, but into BUILD "templates"!
Rubi's announcement is the best thing to happen for WvW players since the equipment templates launched honestly. The main secondary reason is there is a definitive time table of December 3 rather than "we are working on it" or "soon".
The monetization on the build templates/storage could still use improvement but that is not a technical issue so that's besides the point. That's not something that needs patching out.
Do you know how ridiculous a 95% discount sounds?
From a business / merchant standpoint:
Paypal's page lists the following example: "2% + $0.103 markup + a 1.8% interchange fee = $3.90 fee on a $100 sale". For other payment methods it's far higher, on the order of 3.5% or so for AMEX and around 2.6% for VISA/Mastercard and that's before any Euro to USD conversion charges.
If anything there needs to be a price reduction on buying in bulk for equipment templates and the build templates in build storage could be increased per purchase. For example, if you buy 5 equipment templates whatever the charge for credit cards is reduced on a per-template basis. This is evidenced by the price reduction on buying bulk of other items.
i.e. if it's a $1 basic transaction charge on a 500 gem ($6.25) equipment template , dropping it down to ~400 gems each at 5 templates bulk price would make sense. It's most readily apparent with the cheapest gemstore items such as Knife Tail Gang Hunting Bond , Dye Kits, Item Boosters or Metabolic Primers.
I'm guessing two equipment templates probably fits most of the user-base that doesn't play support and only run Berserker's + Viper's,
Build templates are currently priced the way they are mainly due to hotkey function. The workaround for people that don't WvW/PVP is just to use the templates given "free" for those modes ; the majority of people likely only run power+condi+maybe support. I know many WVW players simply opt for a separate WVW character slot or even one per elite spec (18 slots). Even so , a template swap is as simple as a chat-code so the inability to hotkey swap is an annoyance but not world-ending.
The build storage expansions could just be simply reduced in price to 5 or 9 build storage per gem purchase, this way there would be no need for refunds. Coding & chargebacks would be minimal as the number of templates given by the build storage item would just be switched from "3" to a higher number. Arenanet dug themselves in a hole because the base build storage could have been 9 slots instead of 3+ 3 free for the first month(s). Bank tabs are 600 gems for 30 slots and are item slots not just chatcode copy-paste replacements.
There's businesses where the minimum charge for credit cards is in the order of $10-15. Factor in there needs to be at least 30% margin after everyone involved is paid (the credit card company, the NCSoft payment processing, the currency conversion, etc) and there's "price anchoring" so that there is profit even when a 20-50% sale is introduced.
From a player standpoint:
From a player standpoint what you gain from equipment templates is minimal if you only play PVE casually. A 800 gem (base price) character slot affords you more flexibility , especially if you bought a world boss portal device or recharging teleport to friend since the primary issue with a new character is levels (non-issue for WvW players with stacks of tomes) , hero points for elite specs (non-issue for WvW players with hero point scrolls) and waypoint unlocks (relatively quick with mounts) , extra time for relogging / character switching, needing to character swap if it's WvW and possibly hitting a queue (non-issue if you have a WvW specific character).
For raids, the waypoint unlocks are meaningless and also for WVW/PVP.
For PvE:
Guardian (5): Power (DH), Condition, Condition Quickness (mainly rune swap) , Power Quickness (mainly rune swap), Heal --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're only looking at Power and Quickness mainly
Mesmer (5): Power Boon , Condition Boon, Power, Condition, Condition Axe (weapon + rune swap) --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're looking at power + power boon mainly
Revenant (3-4): Power Herald (zerk, no boon duration), Power + Alacrity, Condition, Heal (less common) --- if you only do fractals/strike and don't raid you're looking at power + alacrity only
Elementalist (3-5): Power + Power Sword (only weapon swap) , Condition + Condition Sword (only weapon swap), Support Tempest --- power elementalist remains the main use of elementalist, you rarely see people ask for a support tempest in LFG
Thief (3-5): Power staff, Power rifle (only weapon swap ; single target means typically raids only), Power daggers (only weapon swap), condition, boon (only raids due to detonate plasma) --- mainly power
Ranger (3-4): Heal, Power, Condition, Condition Dagger (weapon swap) --- druids fell out of favor for fractals, so it's mainly power Soulbeast for most people
Necromancer (3): Power, Condition, Heal --- mainly power reapers
Engineer (3) : Power, Condition, Heal (less common) --- mainly power holosmiths
Warrior (2-3): Power, Power with offhand daggers, Condition --- mainly power banners/spellbreakers
Summary: Guardian, Chrono are most affected because rune swap takes more effort than weapon swap ; three main archetypes are power + condi + support (boon/heal)
For WvW (the other use for equipment template slots):
Firebrand , Scrapper usually run minstrel's which are rarely used in PVE
Herald typically is running full berserker unless frontline rev
Power scourge is usually full berserker , unless cele scourge for extra strength of barriers and corrupted boons
Spellbreaker usually has marauder gear or some form of vitality (paired with defense traitline + defy pain)
Weaver and thief (Staff daredevil most commonly) are always running some form of vitality
Chrono is mostly gutted in WvW due to clone reliance and mirage is typically condi so is unfavored for squad play
Ranger can run berserker's soulbeast but generally unwanted due to projectile / pet liability
The value-adds from a new character slot are immense:
If you WvW , an extra character slot affords you 3 build templates and 2 equipment templates for equipment with toughness that normally isn't run in PVE (i.e. minstrel's, trailblazer, dire, etc) = total value of 1900 gems. Realistically there's only 2 meta WvW builds (squad-play, roaming) for a given class so it's probably closer to 1600 gems' value.
The only way for the templates to be remotely competitive with a character slot in its current state is if a build template was half the price or equipment templates were account-wide unlocks; I don't see equipment templates dropping more than a hundred gems or so given the pricing on bag slots (400 gems , character-bound). A 95% discount isn't necessary to make the template option enticing but build templates (and build storage) remain the most irrationally priced aspect of the system. That's especially a problem when the entire build storage monetization can be circumvented with a chat-code.
People have been suggesting that more templates be given to each character slot, but that would just make character slots even more appealing than templates. The only way that can be rectified is if the "free" build templates were locked to a game mode such that a new character slot has two templates for PvE game mode , 1 for WvW (if templates worked as originally stated where the templates can only swap at spawn/home keep), 1 for PvP (since hotswapping mid-match isn't possible anyway there's no reason over build storage) and the given build storage increased per purchase. That way build templates exist for hot-key convenience in PvE and not "pay-to-win" in WVW as some have been stating in the WvW subforum.
** In that scenario , where each character has 2 PvE build templates , the value-add of a character slot as far as build templates is diminished greatly to 300-600 gems or whatever 1-2 build templates amounts to : that's why build templates should still be reduced in price or come in reduced price 5 packs. It doesn't quite address the equipment templates nearly as well however as you'd still be looking at an added 2 templates vs only one template per 500 gems.
Yes. Sure. About as ridiculous as charging several hundred Euros for a simple feature.
I'd pay about 20 € max for a complete unlock accountwide. That corresponds to about 5-10 % of the price, so there we go. And even 20 € is expensive. Normally, features like build templates should be simply included in the game.
I don't expect a discount like that though. I think I'll just continue to use the three loadouts as usual and create some more characters if needed. I've never used ArcTemplate, so it's not much of a downgrade, but it's still a bit of a letdown, as I, too, was hoping for real build templates. Oh well.
If they don't enter the pvp lobby, they don't have to worry about any of their templates being assigned to be used by pvp.
There was some nice time with this game all those years.
To force you buy more as an apology, is not apology at all.
i was out since templates release.
Time to play something else.
Tnx guys, gl and hf.
bb
Assigning likely only means "default" , nowhere does it say you can only use that build template for PVP
By the way, the default mount you set in PvE will always reset to Warclaw after you enter and leave WvW.
Please make the game switch back to the PvE mount we set before we enter WvW.
My two biggest problems with this is first that if you like to play rev if you switch builds its like a puzzle re-arranging every single skill where it is supposed to be in the build template. Then after that hoping and praying that when you press the button that it is actually the skill that is being shown. So this system for playing rev is like gambling at the roulette table when you try to use a skill. Then also wierd kitten happens if you need to switch legendary pieces out because it may show you have infusions but then not actually have any at all and have to go find out exactly where these infusions are located if you play a lot of different characters.
So overall I had become bored with the game but then this build system made it entirely too frustrating to even bother with this game anymore. I would love to know whose great idea it was to say hey lets make it where it automatically strips every upgrade out of your legendary items and play hide and seek with them. So I guess the bigger picture here is that they want players to stop spending money on legendary items and replace them back with ascended(great job anet but I am kind of too annoyed to do that).