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No nerfs to Rev/Weaver? Anet needs to balance ALL classes.


Skyronight.6370

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How come these 2 classes did not get affected in the upcoming balance changes? Revenant ( power herald) has been the best roamer for years already and the only contendent was Holo which is getting nerfed hard and already got nerfed in the past. There is no other class with such high evade uptime while putting heavy AoE pressure and CC into the enemy. Revenant is basically a necro but that can teleport and evade while having the same pressure in a team fight as a necro.

Thief has been nerfed hard already and D/P now is laughable and does no damage because of power creep from block/invul/evade and sustain from elite specs. So that literally makes revenant the only viable roaming/ team fight class at the moment because nothing elses comes close except necro but it dosent have the sustain of rev when focused. There is also power mesmer 1 shot but that build is a one trick meme and dosent have on demand damage like revenant does.

Weaver was under the radar for long because weaver was only good at 1v1s and could not do as well in other scenarios like mesmer/warrior but these 2 are getting nerfed heavily and that makes weaver the best 1v1 class that can also apply heavy pressure and hold 1v2s.

Anet only nerfs the Top of the top builds but they dont nerf the things that are just as strong but not being complained about as much. And that is a major problem, for every meta build there is the underdog that is capable of doing the same thing as the specific meta build but slightly worse and anet dosent touch those. What they do instead is major nerfs to meta builds and they leave other strong builds the same and then they do major nerfs to these builds aswell and we are left with unviable and unplayable builds like Chrono and Scourge.

It wont take long before every class becomes a chrono if the way of balancing this game dosent change.

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You don't seem to understand the concept of a "quick, short notice" balance pass.

This isn't supposed to fix every single problem and achieve 100% balance.

They're doing the few changes they can at short-notice to address the most outstanding/overdue problems.

Re-read again what they said:

We’ve done some work on the next balance update and wanted to share some of the potential changes for discussion and feedback. As a reminder, this update is intended to be smaller but more targeted to address major issues within the game mode as we work toward some major changes in a future update. This is also not the full list of changes for the update, just the ones targeted at PvP.

The goal of this update on the competitive side is not to nerf everything that deserves a nerf, but to bring overperforming builds back in line. There are aspects of every meta build (and even some non-meta builds) that could reasonably be nerfed, but since we’re already looking ahead to a major shakeup we’re more focused on balancing around the current power level for now.

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Rev isn’t the only Roamer. It’s viable over d/p because dp is and has been bad again full bunkers it actually feels alittle better now with the unblockable. There are other things you can play like SD, condi thief or burst thief builds like staff or DE which are actually better against many comps. Rev I honestly think is good in team fights especially with fbs cuz it needs sustain but I can pick something on thief that’s even better at breaking bunkers like FB it’s just the mobility doesn’t seem as necessary imo so I might still recommend rev.

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@Darknicrofia.2604 said:

@"Widmo.3186" said:Nerf all condi builds, fireweaver and condi teef, leave other weaver and teef builds alone, rev idc, hopefully some nerfs to holo and maybe warrior.

fighting a water weaver is basically like fighting a kitten version of HoT launch chrono bunker that deals slightly more damage though.

Mender needs water traitline and much healing power if its supposted to work. Thats what I call balanced.Moment you have neither defensive traitline nor healing power and youre sustaining/healing as much as ^weaver and deal same/more damage, thats what I call unbalanced.

And sorry, as old chrono main in my opinion season 1-4 chrono bunker dealt more damage than mender :D

Anyways, whats wrong with bunker builds? You have one-shot kittens, condi kittens, and you also have bunker kittens. If you want to delete one annoying "build mechanic" why not delete all of them.

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Rev is rather balanced since shackling wave got nerfed. Less damage than war, but more mobile and one of the few hit and run classes. one invuln on herald heal, no stealth, one blink to target.

Weaver is somewhere between fine and underpowered. If they are menders they are doing very little damage and are relying on a very small subset of abilities to do damage. Once you learn their skillset, they are rather easy to fight. If they are damage in any form, they are quite squishy. Beyond a few invulns, they go down fast and have limited access to stun breaks and stab. Timing is important here. Just LOS, pressure from range, or time your disengage mechanic well and they aren't that hard. There are a few great weavers out there that can put up some pretty good fights, but i generally don't find the class hard to fight from a variety of perspectives.

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@Widmo.3186 said:

@Widmo.3186 said:Nerf all condi builds, fireweaver and condi teef, leave other weaver and teef builds alone, rev idc, hopefully some nerfs to holo and maybe warrior.

fighting a water weaver is basically like fighting a kitten version of HoT launch chrono bunker that deals slightly more damage though.

Mender needs water traitline and much healing power if its supposted to work. Thats what I call balanced.Moment you have neither defensive traitline nor healing power and youre sustaining/healing as much as ^weaver and deal same/more damage, thats what I call unbalanced.

Fireweaver uses Sage ammy, which actually has Healing power as a minor stat, so you are wrong when you say it hasnt got healing power Lots of specs in this game can play full damage and have sustain at the same time as you played mesmer yourself before you should know.

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Widmo.3186 said:Nerf all condi builds, fireweaver and condi teef, leave other weaver and teef builds alone, rev idc, hopefully some nerfs to holo and maybe warrior.

fighting a water weaver is basically like fighting a kitten version of HoT launch chrono bunker that deals slightly more damage though.

Mender needs water traitline and much healing power if its supposted to work. Thats what I call balanced.Moment you have neither defensive traitline nor healing power and youre sustaining/healing as much as ^weaver and deal same/more damage, thats what I call unbalanced.

Fireweaver uses Sage ammy, which actually has Healing power as a minor stat, so you are wrong when you say it hasnt got healing power Lots of specs in this game can play full damage and have sustain at the same time as you played mesmer yourself before you should know.

He was talking about "mender needing healing power which is fine for a bunker" and "spellbreaker running demo amulet and being just as tanky". For example. I guess.

Anyway, yes, nerf Fire weaver please. But do it by adjusting Fire traitline and the burning burst please... not for now at least. See how the meta plays out first, before nerfing other builds.

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Are you crazy about weaver nerfing, or you just kidding us?

Fire Weaver is squishy as a hell, he has

  • low power damage, because of just of 5% critical chance, if you can remove conditions he is harmless;
  • very visible burst, can you just wait 5 sec away and not face-tank him? or its too complex for you?
  • weak condition removal, any heavy conditional build may kill him easily, especially with a chill (scourge);
  • weak healing, he can not restore his health quickly, under medium pressure he will die in 15-20 sec, when his evading countdowns will be finished;
  • no armor, any power class can hill him so easy, for example war can just one-shot this weaver, lol;
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@"Lich King.1524" said:Are you crazy about weaver nerfing, or you just kidding us?

Fire Weaver is squishy as a hell, he has

  • low power damage, because of just of 5% critical chance, if you can remove conditions he is harmless;
  • very visible burst, can you just wait 5 sec away and not face-tank him? or its too complex for you?
  • weak condition removal, any heavy conditional build may kill him easily, especially with a chill (scourge);
  • weak healing, he can not restore his health quickly, under medium pressure he will die in 15-20 sec, when his evading countdowns will be finished;
  • no armor, any power class can hill him so easy, for example war can just one-shot this weaver, lol;

Imagine opening an argument for condi build with 'they have no power damage!'The burst is very visible, but it doesn't matter when they can keep reapplying burn while sustaining all of your attacks with boons, barrier, evades and reflects.Weak healing - lol, just lol.Warrior can "oneshot" any non-heavy armor class.

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Try playing weaver. It isn't easy at all.
They only reapply burning two ways: Primordial stance and only when attuned to fire, and fire 2. One requires constant melee range and to remain in fire, the other requires someone to stand in the fire field. Those are not reliably on call as you need to be swapping stances to keep up healing. If the elementalist is healing, they aren't pressuring and if they are pressuring they aren't healing. They have a 5s cd (10s if looking for 4 or 5 weapon skills) to switch between those two modes. If the opponent switches to fire, you have 5s to burst them where they can't heal effectively. If they switch to water, they can't pressure you. If they swap into earth to offset longer cd ablities, they aren't healing and their pressure is much less. Ele also doesn't have mass condi cleanse on easy call. Water switch and water 5 are the best cleanses, but water 5 requires two attunment switches and water switch requires two to re-proc.

As much as you call them OP, i guarantee you would not be able to play them effectively. Its arguably the hardest class to play well and experienced players are able to exploit the play patterns. Even at their best, they aren't up to the level of holo, fb, war, or rev at being an on-point bruiser.

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@Arkantos.7460 said:lol weaver and rev are trash tier ... do we play same game ?

What are you smoking? Not only is the statement absolutely false, Anet, Cal, just said that rev (and FB) are considered a bit outperforming and are in the consideration to nerf soon list.

OP, I do not think power rev needs a nerf. It is surely strong in an organized setting, but lets face it, very few players play in a 1,700+ rating. Weaver on the other hand, probably needs some changes soon.

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@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Lich King.1524" said:Are you crazy about weaver nerfing, or you just kidding us?

Fire Weaver is squishy as a hell, he has
  • low power damage, because of just of 5% critical chance, if you can remove conditions he is harmless;
  • very visible burst, can you just wait 5 sec away and not face-tank him? or its too complex for you?
  • weak condition removal, any heavy conditional build may kill him easily, especially with a chill (scourge);
  • weak healing, he can not restore his health quickly, under medium pressure he will die in 15-20 sec, when his evading countdowns will be finished;
  • no armor, any power class can hill him so easy, for example war can just one-shot this weaver, lol;

Imagine opening an argument
for
condi build with 'they have no power damage!'The burst is very visible, but it doesn't matter when they can keep reapplying burn while sustaining all of your attacks with boons, barrier, evades and reflects.Weak healing - lol, just lol.Warrior can "oneshot" any non-heavy armor class.

but it doesn't matter when they can keep reapplying burn while sustaining all of your attacks with boons, barrier, evades and reflects.

No, they can not reapply quickly.Primordal stance lasts 5s only with CD 20s.

Barrier is tiny and does not matter.Evades are limited and quickly run outToF 1s with 40s CD, EV 1s with 12s CD, Reptide 1,75s with 12s CD,

Weak healing - lol, just lol.

yes. do not mix it with mender weaver who has good healing,fire weaver heals slowly because has just 560 hp, its a tradeoff between mender and fire builds

1 stunbreak!

So? try yourself weaver you will see

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@Lich King.1524 said:

@Lich King.1524 said:Are you crazy about weaver nerfing, or you just kidding us?

Fire Weaver is squishy as a hell, he has
  • low power damage, because of just of 5% critical chance, if you can remove conditions he is harmless;
  • very visible burst, can you just wait 5 sec away and not face-tank him? or its too complex for you?
  • weak condition removal, any heavy conditional build may kill him easily, especially with a chill (scourge);
  • weak healing, he can not restore his health quickly, under medium pressure he will die in 15-20 sec, when his evading countdowns will be finished;
  • no armor, any power class can hill him so easy, for example war can just one-shot this weaver, lol;

Imagine opening an argument
for
condi build with 'they have no power damage!'The burst is very visible, but it doesn't matter when they can keep reapplying burn while sustaining all of your attacks with boons, barrier, evades and reflects.Weak healing - lol, just lol.Warrior can "oneshot" any non-heavy armor class.

but it doesn't matter when they can keep reapplying burn while sustaining all of your attacks with boons, barrier, evades and reflects.

No, they can not reapply quickly.Primordal stance lasts 5s only with CD 20s.

Barrier is tiny and does not matter.Evades are limited and quickly run outToF 1s with 40s CD, EV 1s with 12s CD, Reptide 1,75s with 12s CD,

Weak healing - lol, just lol.

yes. do not mix it with mender weaver who has good healing,fire weaver heals slowly because has just 560 hp, its a tradeoff between mender and fire builds

1 stunbreak!

So? try yourself weaver you will see

I think your kind of right that the sustain is medium but with sheer amount of evades and an actual invuln id like to point at that it isn’t normal to quickly kill it in a plus 1 especially if they kite. But being able to force a decap ezily is a pretty big weakness! Though they are probably 100% likely to win that 1v1 and even hold 1vx when the weaver is of a high skill level and/or against pogs in ranked
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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:lol weaver and rev are trash tier ... do we play same game ?

Weaver- trash tier? Lol yes I do think ur playing a different game than the rest of us.

Weaver is definitely a contender for straight up the best 1v1 side noder right now, and based on the preview we saw it'll probably be hands down the best once Spellbreaker and Condi Mirage get the nerfs they're scheduled to get. And Power Herald has been top tier ever since they super charged Sword Offhand. Double Power Herald won both the EU and NA monthlies. Pretty sure Weaver won the NA monthly before that.

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@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:lol weaver and rev are trash tier ... do we play same game ?

Weaver- trash tier? Lol yes I do think ur playing a different game than the rest of us.

Weaver is definitely a contender for straight up the best 1v1 side noder right now, and based on the preview we saw it'll probably be hands down the best once Spellbreaker and Condi Mirage get the nerfs they're scheduled to get. And Power Herald has been top tier ever since they super charged Sword Offhand. Double Power Herald won both the EU and NA monthlies. Pretty sure Weaver won the NA monthly before that.

I called this a month or more ago and caught flack but people are starting to notice weaver as being a potential issue. Dual revs can be a problem but a tricky one to fix as one rev isn't really a issue and as a burst +1 class shaving more burst off it may out right ruin the spec. I hope hope the dev's think hard on how their going to nerf rev if they in fact are.

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@"Ragnar.4257" said:You don't seem to understand the concept of a "quick, short notice" balance pass.

I don't think that "quick" means "2-3 months" in anyone's book when it comes to retroactive, surface-level changes to a video game's mechanics. The last balance patch was October 1st, by the way. It's nearly guaranteed that this dev team makes no move until December. At this rate, it'll be 2023 before you get your "major shakeup."

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Weaver is not really that strong so I don't think it needs to be nerfed. It's really only good for 1v1, it's arguably worse than Mesmer at everything else and it's definitely worse than warrior, holo, and ranger at teamfighting. I agree that Revenant is overpowered but I think what Anet should do is buff the survivability or utility and nerf damage rather than just outright nerf the class. This way it hits the role of Revenant as a roamer and +1er rather than just making it weaker at everything.

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@Widmo.3186 said:

@Widmo.3186 said:Nerf all condi builds, fireweaver and condi teef, leave other weaver and teef builds alone, rev idc, hopefully some nerfs to holo and maybe warrior.

fighting a water weaver is basically like fighting a kitten version of HoT launch chrono bunker that deals slightly more damage though.

Mender needs water traitline and much healing power if its supposted to work. Thats what I call balanced.Moment you have neither defensive traitline nor healing power and youre sustaining/healing as much as ^weaver and deal same/more damage, thats what I call unbalanced.

And sorry, as old chrono main in my opinion season 1-4 chrono bunker dealt more damage than mender :D

Anyways, whats wrong with bunker builds? You have one-shot kittens, condi kittens, and you also have bunker kittens. If you want to delete one annoying "build mechanic" why not delete all of them.

After all these years despite all the offensive and mobility power creep the general flow and time of a conquest map is still the same. Matches tend to last 9-11 minutes on average even now, just like it was at the launch of the core game.

The times where you see this break down, where you start seeing matches time out with the highest point total being 250, where entire matches happen and the highest kill score is 2 is when you have really extremely power crept stuff like bunker Chrono and post Rework Scrapper especially when in ranked you were seeing 50% Scrapper usage.

That's why stuff like Chronobunk and reworked Scrapper is sooooooo much worse for the health of the game compared to something like Release Scourge or Pre-nerf DP Daredevil, or Spellbreaker. Bunker stuff, defensively overpowered stuff just disrupts co quest as a game mode more than anything else you can do

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